Questions about Mage the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition

[ColorBlindNinja]

That's the job of the Storyteller. They're supposed to provide a framework for the players to work with. The players should also have goals and desires for their characters that can provide story.

The player's characters having goals they want to accomplish, strikes me as essential here.

[Lapak]

The player's characters having goals they want to accomplish, strikes me as essential here.

If they're having trouble forming personal goals, I find it's often helpful with players new to the game to remind them that their character's Paradigm isn't just how they fuel their magic, it's literally how they believe the world works. An Akashic mage believes in abandoning desire, in the fundamentally illusory nature of the world. A member of the Cult of Ecstasy believes that intense experiences allow them to transcend above the ordinary world. Hermetic mages believe that the world operates according to the rules and bindings and True Words that define their tradition, and so on. Once a player gets into that headspace it's sometimes easier for them to decide what it is their character wants to accomplish.

[fishyfishyfishy]

It plays a factor, yes. I would say it's still up to the ST to make use of those things.

[ColorBlindNinja]

If they're having trouble forming personal goals, I find it's often helpful with players new to the game to remind them that their character's Paradigm isn't just how they fuel their magic, it's literally how they believe the world works. An Akashic mage believes in abandoning desire, in the fundamentally illusory nature of the world. A member of the Cult of Ecstasy believes that intense experiences allow them to transcend above the ordinary world. Hermetic mages believe that the world operates according to the rules and bindings and True Words that define their tradition, and so on. Once a player gets into that headspace it's sometimes easier for them to decide what it is their character wants to accomplish.

That makes sense.

It plays a factor, yes. I would say it's still up to the ST to make use of those things.

So, dropping plot hooks and such.

[JeenLeen]

In the Mage game I was in, the game moved forward through a combination of
1) our characters had some idea of how to achieve Ascension and/or some goal they were working towards due to their worldview
and
2) there was an overarching plot the DM had, and that led to plothooks for various quests and missions eventually tied to saving (er, sorta) the world.

For some examples of #1:
-a Euthanatos trying to find those who needed killing, but also those worth trying to redeem, and struggling for the balance of giving out 'good death' without falling into Jhor
-a Virtual Adept reality hacker (believing the world was a video game, and mages are player characters with hopes to Ascend to real life) who tried to maximize his score (follow plot hooks, do good mage-y things, not kill mundanes needlessly even though they are just NPCs) in hopes of achieving Ascension
-a mage dedicated to the idea of cooperation with other supernaturals, trying to find alliances with the others (vampire, fey, etc.) in town
-a Son of Ether wanting to work on his mad science, hoping for needs for more machines and opportunities to show them off
-an Akashi whose order is devoted to protecting a given area, dedicated to protecting the city the team was centered in

We'd spend time pursuing our own goals, as well as working towards the overarching plot the game was following.

[ColorBlindNinja]

-a Virtual Adept reality hacker (believing the world was a video game, and mages are player characters with hopes to Ascend to real life) who tried to maximize his score (follow plot hooks, do good mage-y things, not kill mundanes needlessly even though they are just NPCs) in hopes of achieving Ascension

That is hilarious, I just might have to steal that concept for a future game.

[JeenLeen]

That is hilarious, I just might have to steal that concept for a future game.

He was probably my favorite character ever from any game I've played in. He went by the name 'Meta', as in metagaming. As part of his paradigm, he believed that magic was hacking, and all other paradigms must be hacks that somehow worked indirectly. Thus, he tended to integrate other, more mystical foci when he could, which enabled a lot of variation in foci. I had a fun engagement when we met a demon (as in Demon: The Fallen, not Nephandi demons), which he decided were probably PCs like mages are, and he was debating about unlocking prayer as a valid foci by either becoming a thrall to the demon and letting his faith be channeled through it OR converting to Catholicism under tutelage from a Chorister and thereby use a traditional deity. He eventually decided on the latter, since he could always trade part of his soul away later on if religion didn't work out. Well, I had decided on it, but he died before actually trying.

He wound up coming off as a real sociopath, since he sincerely believed there was no good reason not to kill mundanes except that it would hurt his reputation with less-enlightened mages and might impact some Morality or Reputation stats. I did play him strongly as not killing folk for no reason, but if we discussed plans, I had fun with him just getting annoyed when moral reasons came up for killing or not killing mundanes.

Also, as a game-based character, he believed in looting enemies. This wound up with him taking a trophy of some sort from every enemy he killed. It was usually something reasonable, like a small weapon they carried or some foci they had, but it wound up a couple times looking real creepy, like when he debated taking the time to grab a heavy axe when that was the only thing an enemy had, or when he pondered taking the claw of a Black Spiral Dancer werewolf. Definitely got comments as it being like the trophies a serial killer might collect.

He'd make a good Marauder.

[ColorBlindNinja]

He was probably my favorite character ever from any game I've played in. He went by the name 'Meta', as in metagaming. As part of his paradigm, he believed that magic was hacking, and all other paradigms must be hacks that somehow worked indirectly. Thus, he tended to integrate other, more mystical foci when he could, which enabled a lot of variation in foci. I had a fun engagement when we met a demon (as in Demon: The Fallen, not Nephandi demons), which he decided were probably PCs like mages are, and he was debating about unlocking prayer as a valid foci by either becoming a thrall to the demon and letting his faith be channeled through it OR converting to Catholicism under tutelage from a Chorister and thereby use a traditional deity. He eventually decided on the latter, since he could always trade part of his soul away later on if religion didn't work out. Well, I had decided on it, but he died before actually trying.

He wound up coming off as a real sociopath, since he sincerely believed there was no good reason not to kill mundanes except that it would hurt his reputation with less-enlightened mages and might impact some Morality or Reputation stats. I did play him strongly as not killing folk for no reason, but if we discussed plans, I had fun with him just getting annoyed when moral reasons came up for killing or not killing mundanes.

Also, as a game-based character, he believed in looting enemies. This wound up with him taking a trophy of some sort from every enemy he killed. It was usually something reasonable, like a small weapon they carried or some foci they had, but it wound up a couple times looking real creepy, like when he debated taking the time to grab a heavy axe when that was the only thing an enemy had, or when he pondered taking the claw of a Black Spiral Dancer werewolf. Definitely got comments as it being like the trophies a serial killer might collect.

He'd make a good Marauder.

Sounds like a really interesting character.

[Skippy The Ripp]

Hi! I have a little silly question about the combat system:

When is your turn, you have to either choose to attack or to do a defensive action, is that right?

So, if you are attacked before your turn, you can't defend agains said attack and if in your turn you choose to do a defensive action, said defence applies to every attack that comes until your next turn, right?

[Braininthejar2]

I don't know how much different 20th anniversary is from old mage - I hope my input will still be relevant.

1 For example, in the old days, entropy * could be used to boost damage by sensing weak spots, making a starting Euthanatos with a gun a surprisingly deadly opponent. Is that still the case in your rules?

2 Don't underestimate the first dots - that's sensory magic, used to detect stuff. Since you can decide spell effects on the fly rather than casting from a list, every wizard is a Batman wizard if he knows what he's dealing with.

3 If you've seen any of the Final Destination movies... beware the murderhobo with entropy magic. The whole sessions can devolve into black comedy at the expense of the NPCs.

4 Any sphere can be used in a broken way if the player is inventive, but most stories on the net involve a smartass with matter *** and a science book: the difficulty of producing a given substance with magic takes neither toxicity nor flammability into account.

5 Spheres that get much better at high levels... time and prime has already been mentioned. I'd add entropy. Rotting someone to death seems impressive, but the real jewel in my edition was, entropy **** could do contingency spells.

6 Ways to mitigate damage by sphere, if you do have to fight:
- prime. might be the only one that doesn't help here.
- correspondence. do your attack from a block away
- forces. a forcefield seems like a no-brainer, but there are funnier ways to do it, such as messing with Newton's third law to redirect kinetic energy.
- matter. super-advanced bullet-proof vests are practically static reality nowadays.
- life. boost yourself to peak physical condition. even bashing soak helps sometimes. Just don't overdo it - improvements over human limits cause a constant drain to your resources, and you really don't want paradox to mess up a spell that modifies your metabolism.
- mind. cause other to overlook you while you prepare your ambush. mess with your own perception of pain to mitigate wound penalties.
- time. he who acts first,or twice a turn, can shoot his enemies before they can shoot him. Also, how do hasted and non-hasted objects interact in regards to the conservation of energy? If you can fit it into your paradigm, you might conceivably reduce damage by slowing enemy bullets.
- entropy. get lucky at dodging. get a lucky amulet that keeps stopping bullets. get a defensive entropy aura that causes enemy guns to misfire.
- spirit. the sky is the limit. (or rather, what the storyteller will allow) summon minions to fight for you. summon minions to use their powers on your behalf - how about awakening the spirit of your bullet-proof vest? Spirits follow their nature - now it considers it its duty to shield its wearer, and with some side-questing you could give it its own powers to defend you with. (just watch the gauntlet levels - such protection is not appropriate everywhere). Finally, if you dare, you might go for controlled possession, and channel some entity that can soak lethal damage with toughness.

[fishyfishyfishy]

Hi! I have a little silly question about the combat system:

When is your turn, you have to either choose to attack or to do a defensive action, is that right?

So, if you are attacked before your turn, you can't defend agains said attack and if in your turn you choose to do a defensive action, said defence applies to every attack that comes until your next turn, right?

Well first you declare actions, from lowest initiative to highest. This gives the highest initiative the advantage of knowing what others intend to do with their turn, and choose their actions accordingly. If they choose an action that disrupts a lower initiative, such as moving out of reach of a melee attack or a defensive action like a dodge ghat scores more successes than the attack against them, it prevents that other action from happening. In this circumstance the interrupted individual can roll Willpower, or spend a temporary point of Willpower to change their action on their turn.

In M20 there is a difference between a dodge action, and a desperate defense action. With a dodge action you have the option of attempting multiple actions and the dodge only applies to a single attack. A desperate defense action prevents any other actions on your behalf but applies against all attacks made against you that turn.

I hope this helps clarify things for you.

[Skippy The Ripp]

Well first you declare actions, from lowest initiative to highest. This gives the highest initiative the advantage of knowing what others intend to do with their turn, and choose their actions accordingly. If they choose an action that disrupts a lower initiative, such as moving out of reach of a melee attack or a defensive action like a dodge ghat scores more successes than the attack against them, it prevents that other action from happening. In this circumstance the interrupted individual can roll Willpower, or spend a temporary point of Willpower to change their action on their turn.

In M20 there is a difference between a dodge action, and a desperate defense action. With a dodge action you have the option of attempting multiple actions and the dodge only applies to a single attack. A desperate defense action prevents any other actions on your behalf but applies against all attacks made against you that turn.

I hope this helps clarify things for you.

YES! That makes so much sense, thank you so much for your answer