My Hero Academia 2: I will endeavor to become a thread you can be proud of

[Cozzer]

So, new chapter out and whoa.

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Hawk is a bad guy! Except not, he's just a triple agent! But he's still more gray than he seemed to be, as he basically set up Endeavor to be targeted by High-End, since he was the hero with the best chances to survive and prevent other deaths. Also, the death of that one honorable hero from the highway chapter is confirmed, and the fact that there's something personal between Dabi and the Todoroki family is even more visible...

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Just, no

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Not sure about this espionage angle. The League isn't going to trust Hawk until he gives them something major. Like, something big enough to really hurt the heroes. Endeavor fighting High End wasn't even part of the plan. That means a weaker hero, someone who would likely be killed outright.

Also, wtf. I thought the stinky teleport was one of AFO's powers. Does someone else have it?

I still don't get Dabi. It looks like those... staples hold his skin together, but I also thought those darker patches were burn wounds.

[Anteros]

Just, no

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Not sure about this espionage angle. The League isn't going to trust Hawk until he gives them something major. Like, something big enough to really hurt the heroes. Endeavor fighting High End wasn't even part of the plan. That means a weaker hero, someone who would likely be killed outright.

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It seemed like an obvious setup from the start to me, so I'm not surprised by the "twist".

I think you're attributing a level of competence to the League that they haven't actually earned. They're idiots. There is no level of stupidity that would be out of character for them at this point. All for One is the only remotely competent villain in the entire story.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

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I think you're attributing a level of competence to the League that they haven't actually earned. They're idiots. There is no level of stupidity that would be out of character for them at this point. All for One is the only remotely competent villain in the entire story.

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Really? They played both the yakuza and the heroes pretty convincingly during the previous arc. A group of idiots would have been absorbed, or simply used and thrown away by the larger more established group of criminals. Instead Shigaraki got away with Overhaul's work after disintegrating the dude's hands. After intercepting the police truck carrying him. After basically stepping aside to let the yakuza take the brunt of the heroes' attack.

[Anteros]

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Really? They played both the yakuza and the heroes pretty convincingly during the previous arc. A group of idiots would have been absorbed, or simply used and thrown away by the larger more established group of criminals. Instead Shigaraki got away with Overhaul's work after disintegrating the dude's hands. After intercepting the police truck carrying him. After basically stepping aside to let the yakuza take the brunt of the heroes' attack.

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What exactly did they accomplish that wouldn't have still happened without their intervention? All they really did was insert themselves into a dangerous situation for very little benefit. The heroes were going to go after the Yakuza anyway

I'll give you that it was their most competent arc so far though. It's the first time they've accomplished anything at all that can't be directly attributed to All for One.

[Cozzer]

About the Yakuza arc, didn't they

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steal the experimental anti-Quirk bullets?

[Anteros]

About the Yakuza arc, didn't they

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steal the experimental anti-Quirk bullets?

They did, but they desperately need a win against the actual protagonists. At least in my opinion.

[Callos_DeTerran]

They did, but they desperately need a win against the actual protagonists. At least in my opinion.

You mean like that whole kidnapping Bakugo thing?

[Anteros]

You mean like that whole kidnapping Bakugo thing?

You mean the arc where they got tracked back to their base, willingly released their victim from imprisonment for no reason whatsoever, let him escape, were easily captured by the heroes, only escaped because of All for One, and got All for One captured in the process?

I think we might have different standards for competency.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

In a broader sense, I think the story is as much about Deku's growth as it is Shigaraki's. The difference is that Shigaraki has to develop as a leader of an organization and a strategist while Deku is building up his individual strength. Deku's starting advantage is his heroic nature and analysis, while Shigaraki is shown to be more of a direct threat due to his quirk. Though his physical abilities seem good too.

In USJ and the Stain arc we can see Shigaraki as impulsive and incompetent. But after he realizes he can use Stain's name for his benefit he gets a little smarter. He almost tried to kill Dabi and Toga just for talking about Stain, but later he is more calm. Otherwise he would never have recruited the lizard fella. The first half of the bakugo kidnap plot went well, though the second half didn't.

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Then in the yakuza arc, where he has to contend with a far larger rival criminal organization, he extricated the League from the conflict with the anti-quirk bullets as a prize.

To me that indicates an upward trend for the League, though that's just my opinion.

[Kato]

I think it's pretty clear the league is getting smarter / more qualified. Not sure how this will effect recent events but it definitely is a thing.
Also, I think it's rfreshing to have a story where the antagonist grows along with the hero. I feel like the usual structure is the hero growing and the (new) enemy just appearing and being arbitrarily strong.

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Well, that was a whammy in the new chapter. Kind off. So I was right about the coincidence a few weeks back but... well, this went 'fine', I guess. But no resolution on the Dabi story. Frankly, I feel it would be weird if Endeavor just forgot a child of his but then we'll see what happen(ed).

[Reddish Mage]

I think it's pretty clear the league is getting smarter / more qualified. Not sure how this will effect recent events but it definitely is a thing.
Also, I think it's rfreshing to have a story where the antagonist grows along with the hero. I feel like the usual structure is the hero growing and the (new) enemy just appearing and being arbitrarily strong.

In Naruto, most of the early antagonists grow in power (Orochimaru, Sasuke, Itachi, Madara). In Bleach, Aizen definitely keeps getting stronger.

It’s not unusual at all for anime antagonists to grow and develop along with the protagonists. In fact, as the antagonists tend to be the one’s to bring about changes to the protagonists, the anatagonists will often develop first.

[Traab]

In Naruto, most of the early antagonists grow in power (Orochimaru, Sasuke, Itachi, Madara). In Bleach, Aizen definitely keeps getting stronger.

It’s not unusual at all for anime antagonists to grow and develop along with the protagonists. In fact, as the antagonists tend to be the one’s to bring about changes to the protagonists, the anatagonists will often develop first.

Aside from sasuke, most of the antagonists start off powerful, and at best we get to see more of their abilities revealed over time. They dont improve, they just unleash more of the arsenal they always had. Orochimaru never got any growth either in power or as a character until after he stopped being the bad guy in the setting. Same for itachi really. Madera was always this legendary uber ninja and his performance from the start of the final arc to its end was more him showing off WHY and revealing his newest ultimate form only to top that a little later. I dont think a single protracted battle scene where the guy keeps scaling up in power really compares to a multi arc improvement setup like we have here.

[Cozzer]

I agree that the way the League of Villains is slowly getting better at what it does can't be compared to any recent battle shonen manga. I also agree that by this point, they need a decisive victory somewhere to start feeling threatening again. I mean sure, they kidnapped Bakugo, but I don't count losing three of their strongest members to kidnap a single kid as a victory.

Though, now that we've seen they could still use Muscular's Quirk to create High-End, it might mean that Muscular himself was way more disposable than it seemed...

[Kato]

In Naruto, most of the early antagonists grow in power (Orochimaru, Sasuke, Itachi, Madara). In Bleach, Aizen definitely keeps getting stronger.

It’s not unusual at all for anime antagonists to grow and develop along with the protagonists. In fact, as the antagonists tend to be the one’s to bring about changes to the protagonists, the anatagonists will often develop first.

I cannot speak about Bleach, but as Traab says, I completely disagree on Naruto. Maybe with the exception of Sasuke (where we'd need to argue on how much he is a pure antagonist and not an extreme case of the rival) all other three hardly or not at all grow stronger. Heck, Madara reers his head only during the final battle.

I'd love to hear about many other anime where the dynamic really is as you describe because off the top of my head I cannot think of any (though Im probably forgetting some). In most anime I can think of the "real" antagonist either stays hidden and just sends minions, or gts swapped out for a more powerful one when the hero has beaten them.

[Traab]

I cannot speak about Bleach, but as Traab says, I completely disagree on Naruto. Maybe with the exception of Sasuke (where we'd need to argue on how much he is a pure antagonist and not an extreme case of the rival) all other three hardly or not at all grow stronger. Heck, Madara reers his head only during the final battle.

I'd love to hear about many other anime where the dynamic really is as you describe because off the top of my head I cannot think of any (though Im probably forgetting some). In most anime I can think of the "real" antagonist either stays hidden and just sends minions, or gts swapped out for a more powerful one when the hero has beaten them.

In bleach, with aizen it was a combo of things. He was hiding most of his abilities and real strength behind his illusions, and during the battle for karakura and all that he DID keep evolving to become stronger, but even then it was more "This Isnt Even My Final Form!" rather than him growing as a character. I cannot speak for what happened after the final getsuga as I only watched the anime up to there so maybe he grew and changed and got better over time as I heard he had a bit of a comeback much later on.

As for other anime, honestly I cant think of any offhand. Generally its a rival scenario when the good guy and bad guy both are growing and learning and getting better. They may be "enemies" in some fashion (like sasuke) but the real bad guys, the various akatski organizations, ted to be the same big threat where at best as the protagonist grows stronger, he forces said bad guys to unleash more of their own power to continue being the stomptastic threats. They always had the power they just didnt need to use it against the hero yet.

[Reddish Mage]

This doesn’t seem believable

http://comicbook.com/anime/amp/2018/...n-dragon-ball/

The creator of MHA is saying All-Might was inspired by Goku.

I think it is very clear what character inspired All-Might and it’s not an anime hero at all.

All-Might is American, has super-strength, a red-white-blue costume, the attitude and values of a full-time hero, and he even has a secret identity. Where about any of this screams “Goku!?”

[zimmerwald1915]

This doesn’t seem believable

http://comicbook.com/anime/amp/2018/...n-dragon-ball/

The creator of MHA is saying All-Might was inspired by Goku.

I think it is very clear what character inspired All-Might and it’s not an anime hero at all.

All-Might is American, has super-strength, a red-white-blue costume, the attitude and values of a full-time hero, and he even has a secret identity. Where about any of this screams “Goku!?”

Does anyone want to make a snide Death Battle reference?

Spoiler: Also. . . (secondhand Movie spoilers)

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Toshinori is Japanese. He did spend significant time in America in his youth, though.

[Jayngfet]

This doesn’t seem believable

http://comicbook.com/anime/amp/2018/...n-dragon-ball/

The creator of MHA is saying All-Might was inspired by Goku.

I think it is very clear what character inspired All-Might and it’s not an anime hero at all.

All-Might is American, has super-strength, a red-white-blue costume, the attitude and values of a full-time hero, and he even has a secret identity. Where about any of this screams “Goku!?”

I mean he has spiky blonde hair and all. I think there's some superficial resemblance but he's definitely more Anime Goku than Manga Goku. I can see a few moments being Goku esque, like his unwillingness to stop Bakugo vs Midoriya.

[Reddish Mage]

Does anyone want to make a snide Death Battle reference?

Spoiler: Also. . . (secondhand Movie spoilers)

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Toshinori is Japanese. He did spend significant time in America in his youth, though.

I'm holding back from making Death Battle references.

Also, I say Toshinori/All-Might is American because: 1. Endeavor calls him that, 2. He has blond hair, 3. The aforementioned nods to America in All-Mights moves and costume (not to mention having an English Superhero name). 4.

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I'm told Japanese identity has a lot to do with actually being raised in Japan. If someone is born or raised before adult-hood in another country they are labeled as foreigners. The appellation is given in anime all the time to characters with only minor connections to other countries, although I suppose there is levels to this.

I mean he has spiky blonde hair and all. I think there's some superficial resemblance but he's definitely more Anime Goku than Manga Goku. I can see a few moments being Goku esque, like his unwillingness to stop Bakugo vs Midoriya.

And that's about all. The character deeply resembles certain American superheroes....Captain America, Hyperion....there's one that precedes these characters that comes to mind. The ways he resembles Goku are comparatively superficial.

Anime Goku isn't all that different from Manga Goku. The American dub has a few lines added that makes Goku much more classic hero-esqe in his fight with Freiza but there isn't much there.

The world of MHA is not like American Superhero comics in the way it heavily emphasizes training, hard work to extremes and growth (American comics, especially DC, is all about how the characters have innate talent). Dragon Ball is a crazy version of that, but that's not unique to DB and is quite a theme with anime.

Moreover, All-Might doesn't train and get better from what we see...this part of Goku isn't something that translates to All-Might. From what we see of him, All-Might comes to the scene already past his peak and we simply see him declining.

[Jayngfet]

It was a process. Goku in the manga by Toriyama was by and large a violent sociopath who happened to only fight bad people. Toei took that and gave him a lot of moral justification in the anime or extra dialogue to soften his bad features and reprehensible moments. Funimation took it a step even further and added even more of that in the dub, but they only were able to because they had that much softening footage to work from in the beginning. This is probably most obviously prevalent in the Goku vs. Majin Vegita prelude where Goku wordlessly threatens to murder anyone who gets in his way, and they all almost immediately back down, to the anime where it's more drawn out, to the dub where Goku apologizes while still refusing to back down from murdering the Supreme Kai in cold blood. Both the original anime and the dub contain scenes to make it clear that for some reason nobody holds a grudge or questions why both Goku and Vegeta are perfectly fine with the slaughter of innocent people for no reason. Because every incarnation of the anime insists that Goku is a good person and a superhero who fights for justice despite frequent assertions to the contrary.

All Might doesn't take much from Goku but you can see how certain story beats are reflected there. The aforementioned fight takes heavily from Gohan vs. Cell as the most obvious example.

[Lord Raziere]

This doesn’t seem believable

http://comicbook.com/anime/amp/2018/...n-dragon-ball/

The creator of MHA is saying All-Might was inspired by Goku.

I think it is very clear what character inspired All-Might and it’s not an anime hero at all.

All-Might is American, has super-strength, a red-white-blue costume, the attitude and values of a full-time hero, and he even has a secret identity. Where about any of this screams “Goku!?”

I agree with you on this. All-Might is many things, but anywhere near inspired Goku is not one of them. I think this is a comment meant to appeal to a different audience....a Japanese audience. perhaps to make Toshinori look less foreign.

[Anteros]

He does fight by using arbitrary percentages of his power like Goku. He's an amalgation of a lot of different heroes. I'm sure there's a little bit of Goku in there even if he does lean more towards American heroes.

[Reddish Mage]

Because every incarnation of the anime insists that Goku is a good person and a superhero who fights for justice despite frequent assertions to the contrary.

All Might doesn't take much from Goku but you can see how certain story beats are reflected there. The aforementioned fight takes heavily from Gohan vs. Cell as the most obvious example.

I don’t recall Goku being called a superhero, although from the beginning Goku is a person with a “pure heart” to ride the kinto un.

By the way which “aforementioned” fight took its beats from Gohan vs. Cell.

He does fight by using arbitrary percentages of his power like Goku. He's an amalgation of a lot of different heroes. I'm sure there's a little bit of Goku in there even if he does lean more towards American heroes.

Dragon Ball fighters talk about pushing out all sorts of percentages. In MHA, however, there’s only a few percentages are mentioned and they are hardly “arbitrary.” The story makes them quite meaningful.

I don’t recall All-Might talking of percentages of his power, except at the first fight of against Nomu, where it is hardly arbitrary because Nomu is able to absorb “100%” of All-Mights power so All-Might has to push out more than that. All-Might does so, not by charging up, but by repeatedly punching in the same spot.

Midoriya on the other hand is told by All-Might he can handle “5%” and before that it was “100% or zero.” Those figures are practically the only figures Midoriya has used. The exception was the one fight where he puts out “1,000,000% Smash” against Muscular. However, Midoriya claims it came off weak because his arm was already broken, so he doesn’t even motivate that it was really a million percent of his power.

Midoriya is a fanboy who seems like the sort to watch Dragon Ball religiously. Midoriya notes one of his problems is he thinks of his quirk as something he has to summon rather than as an inherent part of him. This is drawing a contrast to Dragon Ball where the fights really do have to call upon their power in much pilloried extended sequences.

There’s a lot of other anime that shows real Dragon Ball influence, with characters obviously based on Goku. Here, there seems little reason to mention Goku as “the” inspiration, except he’s popular now with the new movie being in the midst of a marketing blitz.

[LaZodiac]

New chapter!

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I'm actually glad my prediction was wrong. It's interesting. We also got to see muscle rabbit do some badass stuff. But yeah, I like the double twist with Hawks, because it's literally the government saying "we think you're so ****ty that you won't care about civilians getting hurt in your spying" and that's gotta **** a person up, to be honest.

I also really, REALLY liked how this chapter ended on a comedic note of Dabi remembering who Snatch was. And then having to fix his horrible stapled on flesh graft because he was crying from meeting his Dad again. Jesus christ.

But yeah no he's clearly just stapled his burnt skin onto his face to stop it from sloughing off due to damage, and the reason why it was oozing is because he was crying and that was ****ing with it and that's super gross but sad.

[Cozzer]

Anyway, this thread title ended up being way more topical than we thought at the time, didn't it?

[lord_khaine]

I'm actually glad my prediction was wrong. It's interesting. We also got to see muscle rabbit do some badass stuff. But yeah, I like the double twist with Hawks, because it's literally the government saying "we think you're so ****ty that you won't care about civilians getting hurt in your spying" and that's gotta **** a person up, to be honest.

Its not litterally the goverment saying that.
What they said was that he were a person who could look at the broader picture, and go for the long-term goals.

[Kato]

Its not litterally the goverment saying that.
What they said was that he were a person who could look at the broader picture, and go for the long-term goals.

Yeah, I think that's the closer interpretation... e.g. AM would have never done that and... I guess they didn't want to ask Endeavor because reasons?

Also, I totally missed the last page. I guess we should feel sorry for Dabi now (?)

[Lizard Lord]

Yeah, I think that's the closer interpretation... e.g. AM would have never done that and... I guess they didn't want to ask Endeavor because reasons?

Also, I totally missed the last page. I guess we should feel sorry for Dabi now (?)

Because letting people die would mess with Endeavor being the number one hero, where as Hawk doesn't actually care about his number.

However I do get the feeling that they misjudged Hawk if they thought he would be willing to let people die even for the bigger picture.

[lord_khaine]

Yeah, I think that's the closer interpretation... e.g. AM would have never done that and... I guess they didn't want to ask Endeavor because reasons?

Also, I totally missed the last page. I guess we should feel sorry for Dabi now (?)

You dont ask your number 1 hero, your new symbol of peace, for anything that has even the slightest chance of tarnishing his image.
Its just to risky.

And at the same time, Hawk is just that much better of a choice. Endevor more or less wears his emotions on his sleeve. I doubt he doubt do subtle if it had meant grabbing the number 1 spot from All Might.
Hawk meanwhile got a great poker face, and a insanely high degree of situational awareness.

And no. I dont think we should.
Dabi might very well be one of Endevors negledted sons. He has a strong fire power. And his eyes look the same as Todoruki's

But at the same time. Then That does not excuse him being a utter monster with god knows how many lifes on his concious.