Villainous Competition XX​V: No Solicitors!

[daremetoidareyo]

Okay, points duly noted. I need to revamp the way I'm dealing with the judgements. Thanks for the answers.

So delete what you got and start over ;)

[Falontani]

So delete what you got and start over ;)

Honestly I want to see what he's got! dont delete and start over, although maybe be a little less thorough on the ones that are left, try to grade them about the same as the others.

[GrayDeath]

So delete what you got and start over ;)

You`re an evil Evil ...something. ^^

@ Rematagross: Dont feel pressured to do things "our" way, we are only trying to help regarding making jusging easier and faster.

Inc ase it helps, I usually do it like this:

Read all Entries. Sort them by how easy they seem to judge.

Deending on if I feel full of energy or not (or depending on my time) I start with the easier or harder ones, and do one Entry at a time.

If one stumps me (be it because I need to check up sources not readily on hand, or its confusing in the details, or I simply dont "get" it) I pause it and switch to another one.

Often, though not always, I immedeately do the one that catches me most unaware or seems most to my immedeate liking.

[remetagross]

One more entry to deal with in Power, then onto Memorability. Since I won't have to open ten PDFs and look up twenty feats per entry for that one, it'll be way faster!

@Graydeath I'll definitely try that way in case I judge again. I think wanting to judge a whole category across all entries at once has made my judging uselessly longer, by having me forget what everything does between two reviews of one build and having to look everything up again.

[remetagross]

Alright, just three Memorability categories to judge, some formatting, and I'm over. Wich means I'll post everything tomorrow evening after work.

[Venger]

Alright, just three Memorability categories to judge, some formatting, and I'm over. Wich means I'll post everything tomorrow evening after work.

Thanks for the update

[Inevitability]

Deliverance at last! We have been blessed!

Kidding aside, thanks a lot remetagross. I really appreciate the work you've done.

[remetagross]

Well, I cannot say I didn't deserve that one, Inevitability!

Anyway, here it goes. I first want to present my deepest apologies for having taken so long. 13000 words. I know how infuriating it can be, as a player, to wait and wait and wait for the scores to come, and not see the final ranking and...you'll have the opportunity to voice your annoyance when you contest my judgings

Without further ado:

Spoiler: You shall not pass ! This way, good sir!: 8

Show

Spoiler: Orginality: 2

Show

Well, not too bad. I can picture the thing perfectly well and it is indeed rather amusing ^^ Martial initiator classes on monsters with big amounts of HD is rather classic, and the backstory, if funny, is really succinct (plus I don’t really see the golem slaying an Ancient Red Dragon all by its own). Stone Golem is also rather expected as guardian-slow-and-powerful creatures go.

Spoiler: Elegance: 2

Show

Two base classes, one after the other. Seems good to me.
Many small miscalculations, however.
The listed Str should be 41, not 39, though the attack bonus indicated for the slam attacks do corresponds to the correct Str score. The indicated Ref save should be 2 points higher, to account for the Dex of 10 instead of 6 for the regular Greater Stone Golem. The mental stats for Awaken Construct? (Not that big a deal, though, since they’re not used as a prerequisite for anything.)
Awaken Construct is from the Spell Compendium, not listed as a source. Also, I have been unable to find out exactly which skills the awakened Golem gains as a class skill. The text of the Awaken Construct spells throws back to MM p.290, which then says, “Some templates change how skill points are determined […] Treat skills listed in the base creature’s description (of which there are none, what with the Golem being a construct) as class skills, as well as any new skills provided with the template.” Of course, the Awaken Construct spell does not grant a template, but that was the most applicable thing I found in that section of the MM. A look at the Incarnate Construct template, for comparison, does not grant skills nor even feats to the newly fleshed out construct. I have to admit, I am quite clueless as to what to make of that by RAW. I humbly ask the community to help me shed light on the matter.
That said, I have no problems deciding as a GM to retroactively grant feats to the construct, but not skills. That would negate the Listen, Spot and Sense Motive skill points attributed to the Golem at CR 16.
Swordsages gain their Wis to AC at level 2, not at level 1, so the AC of the Golem is in excess of 1 here. Also, they grant +2 to Ref saves at level 1, and not +102 :p And you did not specify to which discipline the discipline focus applies. The average amount of HPs gained by the four class levels is 24, bringing the Golem to a total of 295 HPs and not 299 HPs (not that it will matter a lot). A total of 42 Construct HDs makes up for an attack bonus of +30, which means that once you put a greataxe in its hands, the Golem is allowed four iteratives, and not three as you wrote.
Adaptive Style can only be taken at the same time you reach your first level of either Warblade or Swordage, and you don’t get feats either at your Warblade 1 or Swordsage 1 level. That can be easily fixed by taking your Swordage 1 level before your Warblade 3 level though.
All in all, the entry is poorly formatted, and I had a hard time figuring everything. I gather you finished it in a hurry, so no hard feelings.

Spoiler: Power: 2.5

Show

At CR 20, you have a reasonable number of HPs. Your saves are shored up by your maneuvers plus possible magic items. You are immune to a number of spells and effects, and those that don’t allow SR most often allow saves in exchange, so that’s not bad for you, and there’s Iron Heart Surge in addition to this.
You are slow but helped a little by Shadow Blink, Rapid Counter and Moment of Alacrity.
You have however very poor senses, even with the addition of Hearing the Air. This is particularly worrisome as a guardian, because you are supposed to prevent the PCs to slip past you. Blindsense added with Blind-fight somewhat helps you vs invisible opponents, but a Wind Walked party can walk straight past you, as can a party Polymorphed into a squad of rats (you have no way to bypass their Disguise check).
You can hit hard, especially with your maneuvers, are are most likely to succeed at your Bull Rush and Overrun attempts. On the other hand, apart from hitting hard, there is nothing much you can do, and in particular you can do nothing against enemies at range. You cannot really trigger the sneak attack provided by Assassin’s Stance.
You can do nothing against a party that kites at you from 100ft apart with composite longbows, even if the DR helps a little here.

Spoiler: Memorability: 1.5

Show

Well, I can feel you. Backstory is often done last, and thus can get scrapped in case you lack time. Unfortunately, it means for your villain that while the PCs will laugh a good one when they first encounter it, they will forget it soon after. Golems are hardly unseen as far as guardian creatures go, and the very limited degree of interaction this one offers limits even further the point to which the PCs can feel connected to it.

Spoiler: Sally: 13.5

Show

Spoiler: Originality: 4

Show

I’m utterly impressed you managed to find a picture that matches with your random array of templates and creatures so closely. Did you decide to build Sally after finding it?
Apart from that, yeah, so not only this was completely unforeseen for the monsters, but also for the classes used. Scout puts the emphasis on movement, which is quite the opposite of the expected idea of the guardian. The skill ranks in Craft (sculpture) are so random! Actually, it almost seems they are here only for the sake of gaining points in Orginality…I’ll give you the benefit of doubt and behave as if not. Also, villains who focus on gaze attacks are quite rare, as are the Serpent Kingdom feats that come along.

Spoiler: Elegance: 1

Show

She does not qualify for the Tauric template, since it needs a “Small or Medium-sized corporeal humanoid” for the upper part, while Medusas are monstrous humanoid. I do think the bolded humanoid word in the description quoted above does mean specifically the humanoid type, and is not a general word under which monstrous humanoid can be understood. I want it as a proof that a few lines later, it is specified that “A tauric creature’s type changes to monstrous humanoid.” The fact that the type is specified here as a different thing as an humanoid shows (to my understanding) that insofar as this description is concerned, the words humanoid and monstrous humanoid are indeed taken as the two different types they stand for in D&D typology, and thus monstrous humanoid cannot be understood as a subcategory of humanoid (which is the interpretation you seemed to have adopted here) .

No problems about qualifying for the other templates though. There is another big problem, however, with CR calculation. According to the Tauric template, the medusa is the “base humanoid” while the drakkensteed is the “base creature”. Then, the MMII says that the CR of the tauric creature should be equal to (CR of the base creature +1). In that case, we take the CR of the Drakkensteed, which is 4, and that brings us to CR 5. The table indicates CR 8. This seems to indicate that you mistook the “base creature” and “base humanoid” here, and took the CR of the medusa (CR 7) instead of that of the Drakkensteed for the calculation. This would indicate that the end CR of Sally is 2 higher than what it should be.
The mulitheaded and monster of legend templates then add the correct amount of CR, respectively 3 and 2. Curiously enough, probably due to a typo, being a Lernaean creature in addition to being a multiheaded one does not change the CR of the monster, which it certainly ought to do. Oh well.
The ability score increases for HDs that are inferior to the HD of the base creatures are not to be added to the total and are considered to be already included in the final ability scores of the base creatures. Here it is a little complicated due to the fact that there are two base creatures. But they so happen to have respectively 4 and 6 starting HDs for the Drakkensteed and the Medusa. This means that the ability increase for level 4 has already been included in their statblocks. As such, Sally should not benefit from that +1 in Cha for her 4th HD (not that it makes much of a difference in the end).
Your saves seem to indicate base saves for a racial HD with all good saves. But monstrous humanoids have good Ref and Will saves, not Fort saves. Also, it is better to indicate your total save bonus instead of your base save bonus, so that the judge can more easily assess the resistance of the character without having to calculate all the saves himself at each relevant level.
At CR 16, Sally is listed as gaining 10 skill points from her level of scout, but that should be 9. Besides, please highlights where skill points go in the table, since having to make substractions is much more error-prone for the judge ^^
Pervasive Gaze and Piercing Gaze both need an Int of 13, which Sally does not possess at any point of her build. The multiheaded template does not grant any bonus feats apart from Weapon Focus (bite) in some cases, which is not Sally’s case. As such, Sally should gain two feats, and not four, between CR 10 and 16. On the other hand, Improved Initative has probably been misplaced and should stand as a bonus feat from the Tauric template alongwith Improved Initiative.
The levels of Scout and Warlock at the end seem pretty random.
And finally, please list your sources ;)
As is customary, however, this mistake will be penalized only once, and the full build will be taken into consideration in the Power section.

Spoiler: Power: 4.5

Show

You have a ton of HPs, high saves, permanent Spell Turning…and of course you’re a Lernaean creature, which makes you very hard to bring down. Also, due to your powerful gaze attacks (which are not a death effect, meaning the ubiquitous Death Ward won’t do here), most characters will need to close their eyes while fighting you (especially because of Pervasive Gaze), meaning you’ll get total concealment against most direct attacks, and thus will be immune to precision damage in addition to everything else!
Sally has a modicum of detection abilities between some ranks in Listen and Spot, big Darkvision, Quick Reconnoiter and See the Unseen (though that one at CR 20 only).
On the offensive side, since a successful save against a Medusa’s gaze attack does not give 24 hours immunity against it or anything of that kind, the four heads of Sally impose four successive saving throws versus petrification, at a very high save DC to boot. That alone is extremely powerful.
At low CRs, the Frightful Presence and the poison from the snakes, applied through Flyby Attack, will be devastating on the PCs. Later on, Heroes’ Feast and the like will neuter that.

Generally speaking, that’s the weakness of the build: Sally starts out extremely strong, but the later Scout and Warlock levels do not add much to her threat level, meaning the PCs can catch up more and more. Given how absurdly strong she is at CR 10, however, that means that by the time she gets to CR 18 or something, the PCs will be just evenly matched :p

Spoiler: Memorability: 4

Show

Sally is a very unusually looking monster. The four-headed lernaean medusa is sure to be remembered, if only for that. In addition, the forest haunted with petrified and re-sculpted creatures has a good creepiness factor. The fact that her ranks in Craf (Sculpturing) increase alongwith her power level means you can depict to the PCs how the petrified creatures are getting better and better reshaped as time goes on. A Lernaean monster is also, by the nature of the way to dispatch it, very memorable in and of itself. And a creature with gaze attacks as well!
However, the “over the top” aspect of the monster might make it a little ridiculous (but perhaps that was the point), and downplay it a little towards the players. Also, Sally has little motivations and goals in life besides acting randomly around her lair. And who or what, exactly, is she guarding?

Spoiler: Slam: 13.25

Show

Spoiler: Originality: 4

Show

Yeah, so Soulfused Construct. Never ever heard of that. And Quorcraft Warforged. Ditto. Also, Totemist, that’s neat. Using Incarnum is always somewhat original, even more so when it’s more than just the Shape Soulmeld feat. The fluff is neat enough. Exploiting the Lord of Blades and the Creation Forge is coherent and flavorful. Focusing on Bull Rush, while nothing new, is a tad more original than your run-of-the-mill ubercharger, so I feel this should be rewarded. It is only the second time I ever set my eyes on the Juggernaut class, so points for that, and you clearly did not do it for the sole purpose of gaining originality points.
That said, when I look at your build, I keep saying “hey, that’s well done!” here and there, as I outlined above, but I never say “WTF is this thing??”

Spoiler: Elegance : 4.5

Show

Since before the Soulfused Construct template gets applied, Slam is a mindless construct, it cannot advance by character class but only by HD. As such, he cannot take those first two levels of fighter. This, however, can be simply solved by applying the template before everything else during the progression of Slam. However, since all skills except Speak Language are considered cross-class for the purpose of spending the skill points Soulfused Construct grants, these 4 ranks in Intimidate at CR 3 should really be 2 ranks since Intimidate is cross-class. There again, though, if you switch the fighter levels with the application of the template, then Slam will gain 2 skill points for these 2 fighter levels (now that he has an Int score) that he can spend on Intimidate as well, bringing the total to 4 ranks in Intimidate by CR 3 all the same. For the matter of which Living Construct subtype to apply, Rules Compendium does not tell us anything about that subtype and thus does not supersede anything. As such, by RAW the subtype described in Magic of Incarnum should apply. This makes the increase in Con at each multiple by 4 level much less interesting. On that topic, the Soulfused Construct template is indeed rather unclear but seems to imply that Dex and Cha (not Wis) are increased by 1 at every 4 HD.
Your saves are slightly wrong: they should be 1 higher in Fort and Ref at CR 7. At CR 14, since you’re gaining your third level of fighter, your Ref and Will saves should increase by one, and not your Fort save. Your Fort save should then increase at CR 15.
You total only 4 levels of fighter, but 6 are needed to take the second Dungeoncrasher ACF, for which you thus don’t qualify.
Apart from those small slights, the build makes sense, apart from the two ranks in Knowledge (arcana) which I cannot explain. Warforged racial levels, warforged prestige class, warforged feats, a template that connects constructs and incarnum, a base class that builds off incarnum. Makes sense. Everything seems ordered. You got Pounce from a soulmeld instead of a Pouncebarian deep. You did not go standard ubercharger. You made a Bull Rush-oriented build and made it coherently. Losing your mind and gaining it back through Quorcraft Construct and Soulfused Construct was well thought out, too.

Spoiler: Power: 2.75

Show

You’re a Warforged whose natural immunities are even further enhanced by the Juggernaut class. You’re immune to a ton of nasty stuff, and you have a high Fort save and a moderately high AC, as well as some DR that will make it a little harder for archers to down you. On the other hand, your Ref and Will saves are low, as are your HPs, as I’m ruling you don’t get extra HPs for a high Con score.
You’re a focused charger/dungeoncrasher. You have pounce and high numbers on a charge. You have a modicum of battlefield control through clever uses of Bull Rushes. I cannot help but think, however, that Shock Trooper would have greatly helped this build, instead of (for example) Cobalt Power that gives you flat bonuses but not really new options. I understand you might have thought of it as unoriginal, but in the context of a dungeoncrasher, rather than of you run-of-the-mill ubercharger, it would not have seemed only there for powergrabbing.
You will have a hard time catching the PCs up close, however. Your very low speed and the obligatory charge you have to perform to be useful in battle mean the PCS can easily outmaneuver you. Please list some items that would allow you to bypass that issue, because I feel you cannot just say “some items would shore up Slam’s weaknesses.”
Also, you suffer from extremely poor detection abilities. As a guardian monster, this is not to be neglected. As is, even a lowly Invisibility spell would allow the party to bypass completely a CR 20 Slam. I feel those ranks in Intimidate, that are not put to any use, would have been better spent in Listen and/or Spot.

Spoiler: Memorability: 2

Show

A Warforged to guard the Creation Forge, that hates all fleshy creatures, and that serves the Lord of Blades. But a Warforged with Incarnum. That, you don’t see too often and the PCs might remember. Apart from that, Slam has only an Int of 3, which means he is not disposed to talking with the PCs and explain his goals and motivations (which are not much). That makes him a fairly shallow villain.

Spoiler: Mircea Raviwr: 16.25

Show

Spoiler: Originality: 4

Show

Alright, so this backstory, if short, is both compelling and downright creepy. Yikes. Then, about the build. Vampire is nothing if classical, and Vampire Lord is nothing too exciting either. I have never seen (nor in fact was I even aware of the existence of) the Unholy Scion template, so bonus points for that. What is original, however, is the way Mircea wan threaten the PCs in so many different areas, what with his negative levels, mind-affecting power, social skills, infiltration abilities, attrition potential…a multi-purpose villain such as him is not something you see that often.

Spoiler: Elegance : 3

Show

You don’t have the required rank in Speak Language (Abyssal or Infernal) to qualify for Warrior of Darkness, nor do you possess the Iron Will feat: you have to have the feat before selecting your choice of advancement for your 12th level, and only after that choice is done, provided you qualify for it, do you gain your skills and feat as normal for your level. That can be easily fixed by swapping Iron Will with Power Attack for example, so not too much of a problem.
You made a slight mistake in your ability scores: your end Str should be 26, and your end Cha 29. That does not make much of a difference. Your Con should be – as befits an undead creature though.
You left some skill points unspent at CR 5 and 9 but then spent 2 too much on CR 11, so it evens out.
You qualify for everything else. About your choice of class, Tomb Warden fits very nicely thematically speaking, but the level of Warrior of Darkness seems to pop out of nowhere, and the alternated pattern of Hexblade and Paladin of Tyranny levels is somewhat unsettling.
Please list your sources too :D

Spoiler: Power: 4.25

Show

You are extremely hard to bring down. You have very high saves, damage reduction, fast healing, very high AC, all the undead immunities plus spell resistance from Unholy Scion. And even if you do die, Vampire Lord makes you able to come back fairly easily. You even have turning immunity.
Thanks to Tomb Sense, there is no sneaking past you. For a guardian monster, this is plain excellent. Given this “this ability is similar to blindsense”, I think this means it can be foiled by Darkstalker. But on the other hand, there will be no more than 1 PC with Darkstalker in the team, and that one PC won’t be able to use precision-based damage against you (at least not before high CRs) anyway.
Between your hypnotic voice, your social skill tricks and good ranks in social skills, your spawns and the fact that you can use your mother (by the way, ewwwwww), this means you are quite able to gather minions and to approach the PCs without them necessarily discovering you’re the main villain.
When it comes to direct confrontation, you have a variety of options, ranging from stealthy telekinesis use to control weather to blow the PCs out there to transforming into a pouncing animal and dealing a ton of negative levels to debuffing through Dark Companion, Hexblade’s Curse, demoralization optimization and spell-like abilities.
I would note, however, that I am surprised you chose Ensorcelled Flesh as your Black Magic Oil effect from Warrior of Darkness 1: you already have a high AC, I think Blind-Fight would have been a better option.
On the offensive side, however, you are reasonably competent in a number of areas, but not especially good in any. Your Hexblade’s Curses and spell-like abilities are only a few times per day, except for Dominate Person (but that one’s pretty easy to become immune to); you don’t have a very good array of melee-oriented feats and abilities to support your slam; you don’t have any spellcasting; you can change shape into bruisers but then you’d lose your slam attack.

Spoiler: Memorability: 5

Show

The sheer grossness of the Unholy Scion template is sure to be remembered by the PCs. But apart from that, the fluff you whipped up is very coherent and intelligent, if simple. The story of a Paladin-turned-seer-in-the-Abyss (after the forces of evil lunched a campaign against him, as you put it :D) is so vivid it can easily motor a whole campaign arc, if not a whole campaign. And the idea of a guardian put here that actually fights against what it is proctecting, rather than for it, is excellent as well. The possibilities offered by the Unholy Scion template as well as through the vampire pawns allow for many social encounters before the combats take place. Besides, provided the PCs manage to slip through and interrogate the Paladin, he can easily give them intel about Mircea that will make the PCs even more hell (haha, get it?) bent on destroying it. Plus, all the various ways to destroy a vampire, that later change when he turns into a Vampire Lord, give a lot of taste to the chase to destroy or at least bypass Mircea. Well done.

Spoiler: Lorelai G’Elsewhere : 17.75

Show

Spoiler: Originality: 5

Show

Ok, so what do we got here? Abrupt Jaunt focused conjurer, Quicken spell, Strongheart Halfling. Apart from that, this build completely blew me away. A luck-based villain is so rare. Not only is the concept completely out of nowhere, but the build efficiently pulls it off by using obscure classes and feats, that are here not for the sole sake of being obscure. Who has ever reread the [luck] feats of Complete Scoundrel, after having read the book from cover to cover for the first time? Now, I have^^ And the story is darn great as well!  long live Nybor!

Spoiler: Elegance : 4

Show

You seem to have traded Scribe Scroll for Spell Focus (Conjuration), and I did not understand how. Is that an ACF or something? Enlighten me 
You spent 7 skill points instead of 6 for your last two levels.
Apart from than, you qualify for everything. The thematics of luck is strongly applied throughout the build, be it thanks to the [luck] feats (which I am seeing used for the first time ever) or the luck-based PrCs. Using many Halfling-themed items is also appreciated, it gives credence to the build, and makes you forgive the mandatory Abrupt Jaunt ACf.
The other reproach I would make is the somewhat zigzagging progression of the PrCs in the build.

Spoiler: Power: 3.75

Show

A Conjurer Wizard. Your power will thus be measured against the metric of what wizards can do. You lose some caster levels, but on the other hand you still gain 9th level spells. You are mobile thanks to Abrupt Jaunt and Dimension Step. You can remain out of harm’s way by burning all your various luck rerolls to gain better Init, reroll a failed ray attack, a failed save, etc. Cloudy Conjuration combines nicely with the [teleport] spells, as does the extra range provided by Wayfarer Guide. Enhance Accuracy combines very neatly with Nybor’s Joyful Ride indeed. Fatespinner does wonders to one shot someone. The Minor School Esoterica allows you to gain somewhat tough minions to protect yourself during battle.
Nybor’s Joyful Ride is an extremely creative and elegant way to dispatch an opponent, bypassing almost every layer of protection the PCs will have thought of (Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Mind Blank, Spell Immunity [Dimensional Anchor], etc). That can easily wipe out the PCs (all the more than even when it starts to kill PCs, the remaining one will have absolutely no clue of what is happening).
Luckstealer is neat as Desperate Recall grants you some versatility, but on the other hand spending a standard action on Curse of the Fatespurned seems a waste given how small the effect is, with a low save DC and a low Cha to stockpile on luck points (you said you would use Cha boosting items, but you have to buy Int boosting items first and NPC WBL isn’t as big as PC’s).
Also, you have next to no native detection abilities. Which means you have to burn a number of spells to prevent the PCs to sneak past you. See Invisibility at low levels, True Seeing later on, etc. Your lack of social skills makes it unlikely you can manage to bring about the kind of encounter described in the fluff, though that doesn’t mean less points in that category: it’s only fluff ^^
And you’re extremely fragile, despite your teleporting tricks. A fireball lobed at you is a lethal threat, given your low HPs and the fact that Abrupt Jaunt won’t let you evade it. Also, Nybor’s Joyful Ride (which comes online pretty late) needs a touch attack. You definitely do not want to have to get up close to deliver it. Provided you use a Spectral Hand though…but you did not mention it, though. Also, I am a little sad that none of your rerolling abilities let you do as is told in your backstory, that is, making a foe reroll any one die or coin flipping .

Spoiler: Memorability: 5

Show

I’ll be damned if I ever find again a villain that took me off balance as much as Lorelai did when I first read her fluff. Not only is it original, it is also from the stuff of D&D tales players tell to one another to show off how awesome their adventure was. A completely unexpected guardian, calmy offering to play dice (or any other game, really), instead of a direct confrontation (at least at the beginning of her career)? I wish I had faced such a colorful villain. She can provide so much calm-before-the-storm-breaks social discussions with the PCs. For example, I perfectly envision the know-it-all of the party politely enquiring about the etymology of Lorelai’s name, and as Lorelai answers and the PCs happens to have correctly guessed it, she compliments him on the breadth of his knowledge, just as if neither she nor him were perfectly aware that all hell could break loose at a moment’s notice. Well done.

Spoiler: Grobzok: 17.75

Show

Spoiler: Originality: 3.75

Show

Hmm, an Orc Ghost guarding a secret pie recipe in a haunted bakery. Great!! The backstory got me a smirk. I also enjoyed the rare fact of a funny villain that actually holds its own in a fight.
As far as character options go, nothing really sticks out. Tomb Warden might have, but it has been picked by other builds as well. Ghost template, Orc race, Dread Necromancer, Dread witch, all of this is rather standard fare. OK, these ranks in Craft (Pie) are neat.

Spoiler: Elegance : 4.75

Show

At CR 11 you have assigned 6 skill points even though you are entitled to only 5, but then you did the opposite mistake at CR 18 by using only 2 skill points instead of 3, so it evens out.
Apart from those remarks, nothing to be said. Everything flows nicely into the build. The feats and skill points are coherent, as are the classes. Grobzok is a ghost that does ghost things (scaring people off, getting through walls) and takes options that allows him to be better at ghost things.
Just too bad you did not finish Tomb Warden, though once again it’s a nice class for this theme.

Spoiler: Power: 4.5

Show

At low levels, this enemy is incredibly powerful. Turn resistance and etherealness are almost impassable defenses to PCs. Corrupting Gaze and Malevolence will decimate the team. Your one weakness is the possibility that a rogue will slip by unnoticed, but as a ghost you have unparalleled agility to scout around your bakery.

At around CR 10, the PCs wil have ways to go around your etherealness, through Magic Weapons, Banishment, etc, but that will still mean a certain expenditure of resources from them. That is when the versatility granted by Dread Necromancer kicks in. Stuff like Ray of Enfeeblement, Cause Fear or other debuffs you can apply. Besides, Malevolence is still incredibly effective at taking out an animal companion or a sidekick with no personal risk, or even a PC. Quicken Manifestation allows Grobzok to manifest, attack, manifest out, move out. Besides, at these CRs the chance for Grobzok to succeed on the check for Rejuvenation is very high, meaning the PCs won’t get rid of them easily.

At the high levels, Tomb Warden 2 makes it almost impossible to sneak past Grobzok and steal the pie recipe. Though the Absorb Fear class features of the Dread Witch are lost due to Grobzok’s immunity to mind-affecting effects, the ability to affect immune opponents is very powerful, all the more that the PCs will never be in the situation where they have more that four more HDs than Grobzok.
On the other hand, the PCs will catch up faster than Grobzok’s power as a caster improves. The ability damage inflicted by Corrupting Gaze or Draining Touch will most likely be promptly healed away, or at any rate be rendered less effective at these levels due to the fact that the PCs have higher ability scores. I’m not sold on the usefulness of the undead mooks, though. They are exactly that: mooks, and not really more than speed bumps for PCs of that level.
When Undead Mastery and Create Undead kick in, that simply allows you to make monsters that are still mooks compared to 20th level PCs.
Touch of Vecna is a nice find, what with Reach spell and the fact that it is a [fear] spell and thus enhanced by the Dread Witch class features.

Spoiler: Memorability: 4.75

Show

The first thing is the goofiness. A ghost baker orc? Almost as good as a ninja pirate zombie robot. The PCs will have a good laugh, and then set to the fight. After their probable defeat, though, the interesting thing is that you provided credible plot hooks for Grobzok to be more than the comic relief of the dungeon. For one, the thematics of putting him to rest is a quest motor in and of itself. I like how you thought about how a bardic knowledge check would interact with him. Then, the job of the DM is to find something to do with that recipe. If the PCs manage to unearth it, how to use it to put Grobzok to rest? And indeed, as his tale grows, more and more local powers will start to gravitate around him, thus providing even more opportunity for the PCs to interact. The idea to make tribes of orcs center around him, or even priests of Gruumsh, can be easily exploited upon. Besides, the PCs could at high levels use diplomacy to persuade Grobzok to put those ranks in Cooking for them, and maybe try to squeeze the relevance of the recipe out of him. Using the recipe as part of an obscure ritual is also a good high level thematics.
The one reproach I’d make to Grobzok is that one can easily forget he’s a Guardian villain at some point. True, he endeavors to protect his recipe. But unless the DM carefully maneuvers around that item, he PCs will look for the recipe only insofar as it allows them to get rid of Grobzok, not because of any intrinsic value. The recipe as a legendary component of a ritual works, but only at high levels.

[remetagross]

Spoiler: Giolt: 13.5

Show

Spoiler: Originality: 3.5

Show

A Zern. Never heard of those, and they’re a nice find! Same remark for the Half-farspawn template. It is more flavorful and makes more sense than Half-Fey or what have you. The story is nothing too unusual. Another Monster of Legend, though. Battlefield Control Crusader is well-known, as are reach-enhancing feats. Demoralizing optimization. Nothing really makes me say “woah woah, what the hell is going on?”.

Spoiler: Elegance: 2

Show

You do not qualify for the Aberration Blood feat by virtue of not being a humanoid, however illogical that might seem. I have searched for caveats about [Aberrant] feats similar to those allowing true dragons to automatically qualify for feats requiring the dragonblooded subtype, but have found none.
You have spent only 4 skill points at CR 14. At CR 18, you have mistakenly indicated your balance score to be 8 instead of 10.
You haven’t indicated the ability score increases every four HD.
Half-Farspawn changes your type to outsider, which then makes you ineligible for the Monster of Legend template, since it does not accept outsider as a base creature type. This is a severe blow to your build.
There is also the matter of the templates with mobile CR adjustement. I am in the opinion that such templates do increase your CR at a later point if you achieve the required conditions (and thus also grant you the relevant additional abilities). Just like Mircea raviwr with the Unholy Scion template, the Half-Farspawn template increases your CR by an additional 1 when you reach 11 HDs (while also providing you with extra damage reduction, spell-like abilities, etc). As such, your last level of Crusader does not fit within 20 levels of CR.
That said, taking eight levels of Crusader makes perfect sense for a guardian monster. I also appreciate the focus in your build: battlefield control Crusader. It’s tried and true, but it’s properly done. Besides, increasing your reach via Inhuman Reach makes much more sense for Giolt than it does for your run-of-the-mill Human Crusader who just discovered his aberrant heritage, and also decided he was worshipping an Elder Evil, etc

Spoiler: Power: 4.25

Show

First things first, you are a tough customer to bring down. The Zern’s immunity to almost anything targeting Fort saves is truly amazing. There is also the added NA. Add to that the NA, spell resistance and resistances provided by the Half-Farspawn template, the immunity to precision-based attacks granted by the grotesque form, and as soon as CR 8, Giolt is not easy to kill. Later on, Crusader levels provide with a bonus to Will saves, a 1/day reroll to saves that can make a world of difference especially given that monsters rarely if ever face the PCs more than 1/day, and Steely Resolve that basically grants additional HPs especially when combined with Revitalizing Strike.
With Monster of Legend, Giolt gains a ginormous amount of HPs, spell turning that protects it from mailman blasting, and immunity to mind-affecting effects. I have to admit, however, that picking “polymorphing effects” as the other immunity granted by Monster of Legend makes little sense to me, since Zerns are basically immune to such effects through their Adaptive Defenses special quality. Picking acid or electricity would have been a better choice.
Since Giolt’s AC is only moderately high, as is his Ref save, it seems that his weaknesses are uberchargers and ranged blasters. Fortunately, Blur and Blink can help with those, except at very high levels.

Then, on an offensive standpoint, Giolt is a melee beatstick with a few tricks. He has a high number of natural attacks, a high reach when combined Inhuman Reach and gaining a Large size through Malleable Form, AoO-oriented feats and a high Str. But his melee options are oddly limited. The story does not let suppose that Giolt has minions, nor does his build allow him to natively have some. That means that maneuvers like Vanguard Strike, Leading the Attack, Tactical Strike or Defensive Rebuke are more or less useless on him. I think selecting more Stone Dragon maneuvers that allow you to debuff the PCs, like Stone Vise or Bonesplitting Strike, would have made Giolt more polyvalent and ultimately more threatening up close. Similarly, Improved Natural attack makes up for a very marginal boost in Giolt’s power; picking Extra Granted Maneuver instead at this level would have been a more powerful choice. Touch of Idiocy will most likely never be a better option than initiating Divine Surge or even a simple melee attack, unless you manage to get a spellcaster within range (in which case said spellcaster has made a terrible mistake; Giolt’s native mobility is not good enough to make it likely that he will be able to catch a spellcaster pants down). I also must say that I am surprised to see you picked Raging Blood for the Monster of Legend’s offensive ability: Frightful Presence would have made sense thematically speaking for example, and been much more effective than the weak 1d4 damage Raging Blood deals. Finally, I don’t think Giolt will ever use the Demoralize combat action, even with Never Outnumbered. 1/day making PCs shaken with a not that high Intimidate check is not a good use of a standard action. Those ranks in Sense Motive that are not really put to use at the end of the build could have gone there.
Giolt does have some assets that give him both mobility and power, like Charging Minotaur, Tide of Chaos and Leading the Charge. He is not a complete sitting duck while at range, either. Warping Energy deals a fairly good number of damage at range, when it does not compete with the use of a maneuver. Stinking Cloud provides some battlefield control, and Baleful Polymorph has a high enough save DC that it’s actually a 1/day save or die (all the more than gaining immunity to polymorphing effects is, for the PCs, much more difficult that to death or mind-affecting ones).

From a detection standpoint, Giolt has the powerful Blindsight ability, as well as a modicum of ranks in Spot and Listen, and the Clarity of Vision skill trick. This means that as long as the PCs don’t have access to Etherealness, Greater Blinking and that kind of effect, they will have a hard time bypassing Giolt.

Spoiler: Memorability: 3.75

Show

The sheer horribleness of Giolt certainly works in his favor as a memorable monster. Using his tenctacled form as well as his alter shape abilities from being a Zern, Giolt can surprise the PCs by the variousness of his appearances. The fact that Giot gains the Monster of Legend template partway through the build and in a way that has the PCs witnessing it, as you described in the story section, can make for a particularly impressive battle, and leave the PCs with a strong defiance towards Giolt. Finding him again as the hireling of another, unseen villain, means the PCs will maybe remember Giolt more than the villains he is defending. Also, the high mental stats of Giolt mean discussing with him, if futile, is possible, and provide him with some depth. All the more if the PCs can start him on a rant against the other Zerns.
Past the moments of awesomeness when Giolt changes form or gains the Monster of Legend template before the PCs, Giolt does not have much in the way of extraordinary things to do, however. And his motivations as a villain are rather bland.

Spoiler: Narfle, the Garthog, Anthraxia Temple Guard, Chevalier First Class: 15.5

Show

Spoiler: Originality: 4

Show

A Farastu, fiend of possession, possessing objects….it’s the first time I see Fiend of Possession used with Farastus (and that I see those used at all). Second Dread Necromancer of the roster. I definitely see the PCs not seeing that encounter coming. The tactics you imagined, such as the sword trick, are probably standard Fiend of Possession fare, but since I’m discovering them with your entry, I’m impressed by their cleverness all the same! Rune circles and grafts are both original tactics to use (it is the first time I ever hear about rune circles).
The Shadow template seems pretty forced down through the build’s throat for the sole purpose of HiPS, though, and this is a very common way to do so, so small penalty here.

Spoiler: Elegance : 2.75

Show

Using a Farastu, a demon that is by essence the jailkeeper of a whole plane, is very thematic! I appreciate how you took the time to justify the spelltouched feat in the backstory.
However, Narfle does not have anything to do with necromancy, and as such the Dread Necromancer dip feels a bit out of there. Fiend of Possession makes sense for a hidden guardian of some sort, as does the Shadow template. The Marshal dip feels somewhat out of place too, being there solely for the aura it provides.

You mention that combining Freedom of Movement with Improved Grab can allow you to grapple the opponents without being grappled yourself, but that is not correct: FoM makes you autosucceed vs the attempts of others to grapple you, or to escape the grapple, but that ends the grapple for everyone. Summoned Demodands cannot use their own summoning ability, as is explicitly written in the Fiend Folio, so you won’t always have a minion with you. Denying a blow by combining Mad Foam Rager and Etherealness doesn’t work either: it would if Mad Foam Rager was written as “the delayed spell or effect will start anew targeting you next round”, in which case indeed you’re not a valid target anymore, but it says “the damage or effect does not take hold until the end of the next turn”, that is, you’ve already been targeted. Frightful Presence wouldn’t activate all the time as you say: trying to possess a PC is certainly an attack, but possessing an item either isn’t, or is, but that is quite an inelegant way to trigger the ability.
Use Magic Device is not a class skill for Farastus.
Hide Presence does not allow to bypass the limit on Possess Creature set by Protection from Evil: indeed, that spell protects from mind-controlling abilities regardless of whether they stem from an evil source or not. There is no caveat that allows some mind-controlling effects to slip through, in which case one could argue Hide Presence would help here. Besides, this a matter of specific (Protection from Evil blocks Possess Creature) vs general (Hide Presences bypasses various abilities including Protection from Evil).
Save DCs are neither Cha checks nor Cha-based checks and as such are unaffected by the Marshal’s Motivate Charisma aura.

Spoiler: Power: 4.25

Show

So let’s see. Narfle is a very unusual enemy to face for the PCs. At the beginning it’s a beatstick with a high Grapple check and 9/10 concealment most of the time! As soon as he gains levels of Fiend of Possession, his power increases greatly. The various tricks you’ve imagined to trigger the cursed item are very powerful! Bestow Curse is both powerful and polyvalent, and you can use it at-will. Besides, at will etherealness gives a great deal of mobility to Narfle. Fear will probably not work anymore at those CRs, given how easy it is to become immune to fear at levels 11 onwards. Control Object and Animate Object allow Narfle to interact more directly with the PCs. It requires that they fight it in the lair you’ve prepared so that it can possess the statues and stuff, but for a guardian monster, this is more likely than for an average villain. Graft Flesh is amusing, but given that Narfle wants to be possessing an object as often as possible (since it is a rather mediocre villain when facing the PCs with its own body as soon as CL 12ish), it won’t make use of much of them. Fearsome Eye and Fiendish Ear can be useful to improve his detection abilities, however.
That said, Narfle doesn’t have much in the way of directly killing a PC, apart from mauling it while possessing a Gargantuan Construct.
Rune Circles are, I think, a less interesting deal than what they initially seem. For one, they cost quite some money. Added to the costs of the grafts, that quickly starts eating into your budget for other equipment. Also, a Fiend of Possession will jump from item to item, from PC to PC, and won’t be likely to stand in one place long enough to benefit much from a circle. Finally, more often that not, Narfle will fight alone, and only sometimes with 1d4 Farastus. That doesn’t bring the supportive abilities of the circles to their fullest. Still, they will most probably take the PCs off-guard.
The way you offer to trigger Frightful Presence is rather amusing, but PCs will rapidly stop noticing they were threatened by the Shaken condition, and also the triggering of the ability (over which you have no control) may give you away when the PCs suddenly have to roll when the fighter grabs the sword.
A combination of Naturalized Denizen and Undetectable Alignment, as well as a good Hide check mean the PCs will have a hard time flushing Narfle out and busting it away from an item or PC. In particular once it can hide in discoporated objects, it will be very hard to prevent it from jumping from one hiding place to the next, using his etherealness and Freedom of Movement.

Clairaudience/voyance is a nice way to bypass the relative lack of perception of a fiend possessing an item. The lack of special senses (apart maybe from See Invisibility through the Fearsome Eye graft) is somewhat countereffected by the fact that the PCs have practically no chance to detect Narfle when they try to sneak past him.

Spoiler: Memorability: 4.5

Show

The PCs have to rob a temple. Yawwwn. They find a possessed item. Yawww-what?? For the first encounter, or maybe the first few encounters, the PCs are quite likely to be utterly bamboozled by Narfle’s trick. It can take some time for them to even understand they are facing a Fiend of Possession. Good points for him. Fiend of Possession is a kind of a one-trick pony, but that one trick is sooo annoying for the PCs, they are certain to remember it. Getting negative levels for the whole party as they walk on a possessed tile of the floor? One the PCs getting possessed? His player will sure not forget that. Also, the presence of rune circles and grafts can provide with some new tricks to prevent a little the PCs from getting bored with Narfle’s antics. He even has some personality for the PCs to discover and maybe try to Diplomance him.
In the end though, the PCs might grow bored of frustrated of facing that kind of opponent, since he is so elusive; this is a small reproach I make.

Spoiler: Sharla: 10.75

Show

Spoiler: Originality: 1.5

Show

A Duskblade Crusader Vampiress. And the second vampire at that, as well as the second Crusader. Nothing original here.

Spoiler: Elegance : 4.5

Show

You used 8 skill points instead of 5 at CR 4, but then only 2 at CR 5. I suppose this is a typo from you since in the end the number of skill points spent is correct. You spent only 1 at CR 10 and 17 but then 8 at CR 11 instead of 6.
Apart from that, the Arcane Disciple feat to gain the Suffering domain is very thematic and appropriate. The rest of the character options are self-explanatory, which is a good thing as far as elegant builds go.
But for two small things: the other hand, the Improved Sunder feat comes out of nowhere at the end of the build, and the strange alternated pattern of Duskblade and Crusader levels.

Spoiler: Power: 2.5

Show

Sharla is at the beginning of her carrier a run-of-the-mill duskblade. Up until CR 5, though, her low detection abilities, 8 in Con score and lack of tricks make her an unappealing villain. Fair enough, not all villains are designed to be used from CR 1 to 20. So, starting from CR 8. Vampire abilities to change shape, spider climbing and turn gaseous provide the usual mobility and escapability. Dominate gives some versatility on the offensive side. Combining a slam attack that deals two negative levels with Arcane Channelling is a nice combination. Later on, the levels of Crusader provide some added variety especially once the spells per day are over (maybe because of a liberal use of Arcane Strike). Arcane Channelling Bestow Curse as a full-round action is quite a powerful trick, though the save DC will be quite low.
Sharla is reasonably resistant what with her undead immunities, DR, and Action Before Thought. Also, she can make use of Dominated minions to provide with some meatshields to compensate for her low HPs, saves and AC. Rallying Strike allows to heal both her and the minions regardless of the usual issues of positive or negative energy, which is a neat trick. Nice on Martial Study bypassing the issue of whether the maneuver is granted or not.

On the other hand, Sharla does suffer from several shortcomings. For one, she has basically no means of threatening an opponent at range. Once again, in case of a guardian villain, it is a more serious issue than for a more general enemy, because that means Sharla is reluctant to leave the place she’s guarding to retaliate against ranged PCs. The dominating gaze won’t cut it quite fast, given that Protection from Evil is a 1st level spell, the PCs will ward them after their first encounter with Sharla. The class level progression is also, to my opinion, a little subpar. Picking the three levels of Crusader last would have provided Sharla with the ability to pick up to 4th level maneuvers as her first five maneuvers known. Picking Martial Spirit as the required 1st level stance means Sharla meets the prerequisites for Divine Surge, while Charging Minotaur and Mountain Hammer qualify you for Bonesplitting Strike, giving some versatility to Sharla. You still have one left for Revitalizing Strike.
Improved Sunder is an odd choice. While wanting to sunder the holy symbol of a cleric is not a bad idea in and of itself, Sharla is not really able to make a good use of that. First, she needs to get up close with said cleric. That means that either the cleric is a gish, in which case he won’t mind Sharla wasting an iterative on such an action and will be able to retaliate to his heart’s content. Or the cleric is behind the PCs’ lines, in which case Sharla will find herself surrounded by PCs. Besides, not that many spells need a divine focus, and turning is already a bad strategy vs Sharla because of her turn resistance. Another Martial Spirit, to grab a debuff like Entangling Blade, would have been a better choice. Similarly, Fire Shield is an odd choice as the sole 4th level spell. 20th level PCS don’t really care about suffering that amount of damage when getting up close to Sharla. Dimension Door would have been a better pick. Besides, this implies that Sharla has time to buff before meeting up with the PCs. But given her lack of detecting abilities, the PCs (or at least the skillmonkey) will more often than not sneak up upon her and not the other way round, which will catch her unaware. At party levels 15+, Invisibilty won’t cut it anymore.
The skill ranks in Intimidate are rather wasted, since there is no feat support for demoralizing. Spending a standard action to make one PC shaken, and then another one for Daunting Strike to make it frightened, is too action-heavy to be worth it. Investing skill points in the Never Outnumbered skill trick might have helped towards that goal; or you could have invested in Listen and Spot (even cross-class) instead.

Spoiler: Memorability: 2.25

Show

Facing vampires is always interesting, due to the various ways one has to have to kill them, to their specific strengths and weaknesses. Here, that is compounded by the neat idea of stuffing her coffin into a bag of holding of her boss. Since the PCs will try to track her coffin down, they will be utterly puzzled not to find it with the divination means at their disposal at that level. The PCs will also bitterly remember the first time they suffer a massive Bestow Curse attack.
Apart from that, however, Sharla is not a very memorable villain. There is no clever trick to discover in her backstory to defeat her, and not much opportunity to discuss with her, given how brutal and direct she appears to be. And, to be honest, vampire villains are very likely to attract a ton of side jokes that will make them ridiculous. Mircea avoided that issue by being more than a vampire villain.

Spoiler: K.AM.: 14

Show

Spoiler: Originality: 4

Show

Hum, well. Another Soulfused Construct, and another Totemist, and another name that ends with “am”. I am surprised to see two builds that look like each other that much. But they are both quite original all the same. Focusing on Sunder is something I have never seen brought to such an extent before, as is demolishing walls to appear behind the PCs. Alchemichal Golem was a nice find too, and it really conveys the idea of an unstable, mercurial villain that complements the idea brought about by the Lost template (another one that is a first timer for me).

Spoiler: Elegance: 2

Show

Your advancing from 30 to 31 HDs without increasing the CR of K.A.M. is maybe RAW, but extremely inelegant. I suppose the aim was to finish at 36 HDs instead of 35, so as to nab one extra point of essential from the Soulfused Construct template.
In all fairness, though that doesn’t change much, I will consider K.A.M. to gain the Dex and Cha increase every 4 HDs as is my judging for the other Soulfused Construct, Slam (but I’m surprised as hell to see two Soulfused Constructs this round!), .
I don’t understand where the two essential points you gain at CR 18 and 19 come from.
The choice of templates works nicely with the backstory.
But the choice of classes doesn’t feel very coherent. How come a barely mindless golem could become a Warblade, a warrior thirsting for glory and martial prowess? Similarly, where does K.A.M. take the divine inspiration that the fluff of Strength Devotion requires?

Spoiler: Power: 3.75

Show

This is a bull rush optimizer, similar to Slam in that account too. But K.A.M. hits harder and has more tricks up its sleeve. K.A.M has the required high Strength, Power Attack/Shock Trooper combination, two slams to use with the Sphinx Claws or the Thunderstep Boots bound. The high BAB allows for a reckless use of PA even when not in a charge, which party compensates for the fact that the damage ratio is only 1:1 and works well with Momentum Swing from Combat Brute. Power Lunge is obscure, and probably less effective than Leap Attack, but why not. I particularly like how Sundering Cleave is greatly exploited here. As soon as CR 14, and even without activating Strength Devotion, by putting all his essential into the Thunderstep boots K.A.M. can deal an average of 67 damage to an object. This is enough to automatically destroy any +3 weapnon and below, thus ensuring the Sundering Cleave. Neat! Also, the two breath weapons give some polyvalence to K.A.M. Bile of Hatred deals ok damage while the original breath weapon deals dangerous Con damage. At the end of the build, Mountain Tombstone Strike arrives to give a serious boost to K.A.M.’s debuff ability, and Stone Dragon’s Fury, if mostly flavorful, is always that extra inch of stone wall destroyed.
By the way, I did all the math and calculated that at CE 20 a fully launched K.A.M., with Aym bonded, all essential invested in Thunderstep Boots and Cobalt Power, activating Strength Devotion, etc could pulverize a 10 in. thick stone wall in a charge. Damn! That’ll for sure catch the PCs unaware just as your fluff described, or allow for it to flee if things get dire (though its Int of 3 might prevent it from realizing it’d better flee).
K.A.M. has ok HPs (in accordance with how I ruled for Slam, Soulfused Construct does not grant extra), ok saves and ok AC. This is helped by its damage reduction, Slippery Mind, and numerous living construct immunities, as well as its immunity to magic. Puncture is actually a deterrent ability for anyone who would attack K.A.M. up close, which is fortunate since death by direct damage is one of its weaknesses.
On the other hand, K.A.M. is not mobile at all, which is all the more handicapping that it needs to get to contact or at least close range to attack the PCs. Yes, the battle will take place underground, but the PCs can have Xorn Movement, Burrow, Spider Climb maybe. At CR 20, it needs to touch the ground anyway to activate its maneuvers, while the PCs certainly won’t (thus neutering the effect of EarthStrike Quake). K.AM. also has no iterative attacks, which dampens its potential as an ubercharger. Even a humble Improved Unarmed Strike would have allowed it to make use of a full attack in case it has no space to charge someone.
Sundering won’t work on all opponents either: casters, ranged characters, Totemists, Psychic Warriors, Wild Shaped Druids are all far less affected by it than melee guys are.
K.A.M. has no detection abilities whatsoever (except with a bound Hunter’s Circlet to the totem slot for Scent). Conversely, its skill points in Intimidate are not put to any use; investing in Spot or Listen might have been a better idea.

Spoiler: Memorability: 4.25

Show

Oooooooh yeahhhhh. Damn. The first time K.A.M. demolishes a whole section of wall to appear right behind the PCs, the players will utterly freak out. And when the DM will show them the picture you’ve chosen for K.A.M., they will freak out again. And when the melee guy will lose his weapon to K.A.M., the players will curse the DM now and for all of eternity, that is for sure. Not only that, but also the strange way Alchemical Golems work when you hurt them is striking as well. K.A.M. is choke full of strange tactics and strange monster origins with strange abilities.
On the other hand, what is K.A.M. guarding exactly? Some random stash of magic items. The “guardian” part of K.A.M. is one of the least detailed of all the presented entries, which I feel is too bad. Also, while sundering makes the players remember the villain, it can also ruin their fun. To exercise with caution.

Spoiler: Rasharuach: 16.75

Show

Spoiler: Originality: 4

Show

A corrupted air elemental. The whole living tempest monster is far from new, especially when defending a remote castle atop a high mountain. The Dark Creature template. Nothing new either.
On the other hand, using vile damage to such an extent is very novel, and the Corrupted template makes perfect sense with the backstory here, making it original but not for the sake of being so. Using Improved Flyby Attack tactics as the selling point of the build is original as well.

Spoiler: Elegance : 4.5

Show

Your base Fort save at CR 20 should be +14, not +13. Hide and Move Silently are not class skills for the air elemental since they are not listed in the skills in which it has invested in its base statblock. This means that Rasharuach effectively has half the listed skill ranks in those two skills.
Apart from those points, you qualifiy for everything, and simply increasing the HDs of Rasharuach is extremely simple and elegant.

Spoiler: Power: 4.5

Show

Rasharuach has one trick. But what a trick! His excellent mobility allows him to dictate how the battle happens. Flyby Attack combined with Hide in Plain Sight means he can move, strike, move again and disappear in the shadows after. The Improved and Greater versions mean it is very likely to hit at least two PCs in a singe turn. The combination of Improved Trip and Knockdown, added to its high trip modifier, means that in a single attack from Flyby Attack, Rasharuach has dealt two slams, tripped the PC, and most importantly dealt 40 vile damage! Indeed, even if the slam only deals a mediocre amount of regular damage (though a high BAB allows for some audacious PA to compensate, all the more that tripped opponents gain a -4 to AC), the amount of vile damage is an absolute horror to face. The PCs will soon realize they are getting whittled down with no possibility of simply retreating on the spot healing.
Rasharuach’s senses are good. High Spot & Listen, Darkvision, though a lack of other special senses. That means for example that Rasharuach will have to proactively make checks to detect invisible PCs that don’t move, for example, and that costs a move action. Spending points on Clarity of Vision skill trick would have helped there.
Rasharuach is enormously resilient. Around 450 HPs at CR 20; elemental immunities (to critical hits in particular, and no Vinestrike/Gravestrike for that), DR, Fast Healing, and hard to pin down for a full attacl or a charge. His saves and AC are good.
The one thing that is a little of a letdown is Rasharuach’s inability to deal with concealment, etherealness or hidden foes, because it solely relies on melee attacks. Conversely, some of its feats are really subpar. Iron Will, Great Fortitude? I take it they were selected to better fit the theme of the SRD elemental, and in that regard it is a good idea; however, in order to increase Rasharuach’s power without sacrificing to elegance or thematics (which means I won’t suggest obvious choices like Martial Study), one could have replaced Alertness, Iron Will and Great Fortitude with Fiendish Heritage Fiendish Presence and Fiendish Legacy, from Complete Mage. These feats work with the theme of the corrupted elemental, and bring to the table some useful SLAs with a caster level equal to Rasharuach’ HD (so rather high) and with saves bumped by 4 by the Corrupted Template.

Spoiler: Memorability: 3.75

Show

I like the idea of the dawnbirds. They give some relief to the setting; maybe PCs can try to salvage some of them and ask for guidance about how to best beat Rasharuach. That gives a modicum of depth to the setting of the battle. The team will most likely flee during their first battle vs the elemental, as soon as they discover she deals vile damage. The horror of such an ability is certain to leave a strong impression on the PCs; this battle is not one you deal with the regular way.
On the other hand, Rasharuach, being very much a one trick pony, will give off a strong impression the first time the PCs face her, but not so much on subsequent confrontations.

Spoiler: The Watcher: 16.5

Show

Spoiler: Originality: 4.5

Show

An obscure dragon race yet thematically fitting, a well-known but most unused template, and psionics added to the mix. It is a bit orderless, but is really unexpected. Besides, the tactics employed by the Watcher are really innovative. Focusing on Final Strike by association with Schism and Dracolich? Using Area Attack with various rider effects? That makes two 3.0 feats that I have never heard about that make up for the core of the Watcher’s strategy. Besides, as far as psionics go, one could have thought about Ardent to make up for the lost ML, but you picked Soulbound Weapon Psychic Warrior instead. I had to picture a dragon using a (Tiamat forbids!) manufactured weapon for a moment.

Spoiler: Elegance: 2.5

Show

Though there is no denying you do qualify for Improved Dragon Wings, this is most unelegant. Using Paralyzing Touch in conjunction with Area Attakc is RAW too but horribly inelegant, since by RAI the part of the Dracolich that is paralyzing is its body, not the club it happens to carry around!
Also, you do not possess the required 4 ranks in Psicraft to qualify for Practised Manifester. You do not qualify for Epic Expanded Knowledge either: it requires you to have the “ability to manifest powers of the normal maximum power level” in one psionic class (Psychic Warrior here), but at the level you take it, you are only able to manifest powers of up to 4th level, whereas the “normal maximum power level” for the Psychic Warrior class is 6th. Which means you cannot learn Schism nor Wall of Ectoplasm. Using transparency to allow a Proto-dracolich to act is, once again, RAW but inelegant as hell.
Since Concentration is a cross-class skill for you, the max number of skill ranks you can put into it at CR 5 is 6.5, and not 7 as you did. Besides, you allocated only 26 out of your 39 available skill points. Not that this is illegal, it is simply a little strange.
That said, a Dracolich is a very nice monster to be a guardian of some sort, and Final Strike is very flashy, class, and novel. The layout of the race, template and class is simple and well explained. Ibrandlins are fitting as guardian monsters: a PC succeeding on a Knowledge check would receive RAW information that makes sense with the theme. I also appreciated the effort put into explaining the complicated tactics put to use.

Spoiler: Power: 4.75

Show

Wow. This villain is a powerhouse. For starters, it can hit hard in melee thanks to its numerous natural attacks, bonus cold damage and high Strength. Its breath weapon and Paralyzing Gaze add some versatility. Then, the combination of Area Attack and Paralysing Touch does work, since a single attack roll is made for the whole area of the attack. The saves DC carries off of Charisma, since it can reasonably considered a “special attack” as described in the Dracolich entry. The fact that the save DC must be repeated each time even after a successful save is incredibly dangerous, and makes up for the fact that the save is not that high. Besides, with its 15fr reach, the Watcher can damage a huge part of the battlefield with it. Dissolving Weapon, Prevenom and Truevenom weapon and Strength of my Ennemy all work extremely well as rider effects upon that Area of Attack. The best thing is that since it only takes a standard action to perform, the Watcher is free to come in, swat the whole team with a debuff-ridden attack, and then flee out of reach thanks to Flyby Attack. A Maximised Truevenom weapon is extremely painful for the PCs, and the combination of Hustle and Psionic Mediation ensure you can pull off a Quickened or a Maximised power as often as you want. Fly (although through cheese) that is improved by Flyby Attack, Hustle, Psionic Freedom of Movement and Psionic Lion’s Charge all give a good mobility to the Watcher. At CR 20, Wall of Ectoplasm even gives solution vs incorporeal PCs, something few entries have been able to perform. The various tricks around Schism and not wasting a turn to possess a corpse are very good too. Final Strike deals a respectable HD*3/2d6 of fire damage, and the ability to repeatedly pull it off through various possessions of undead bodies is hilarious!
Since the Watcher’s ML caps at 16, the special augment of Call Weaponry for Soulbound Psychic Warriors means it can buy as much as a +3 weapon enhancement, and not a +4 one as you described. Still, It allows for very nasty stuff like Force as you described, or Marrowcrushing for Con damage.
The Watcher is also incredibly resilient. Usual undead immunities, plus fire, cold, and lightning are not too shabby. Some amount of SR that will prove a real pain at low levels. Then, the possession of a phylactery means the PCs really have to try hard before they get rid of the Watcher. PCs will want to go melee to target its weak AC but will fear its 15ft reach that even increases through Expansion.
On the other hand, the Watcher has mediocre detection abilities, and it doesn’t even have Blindsense as true dragons do. Some ranks in Spot, and Psionic See Invisibility are all it has.
The Watcher is also crippled by rather low AC, meaning it is vulnerable to power attackers that manage to get to contact. I also don’t see the point of the Escape Detection power, since the Watcher has no means to make it last throughout the day, it means an expense of 10 pp per day to cover 24 hours. Neither do I see the point of Empathic Transfer. More generally, the very low number of power points of the Watcher is one of its weaknesses, especially if it intents to burn through them at a fast rate by using metapsionic or heavily augmented Call Weaponry powers.

Spoiler: Memorability: 4.75

Show

This guy is impossible to forget. First off, who ever faces Dracoliches? They’re of the stuff of legend, usually at impossibly high CRs where no adventure ever takes place. But applying it to an Ibrandlin gives it a reasonably low CR. Kudos for that, the PCs will boast after defeating him. Then is the matter of the way it fights. The area attack trick will catch the PCs utterly unaware the first time; in addition, since the Watcher has a varied array of rider effects to apply to it, the PCs will soon recognize it as its signature move, and yet with diverse enough applications that it remains a constant challenge to face. Remove Paralysis? Eat some Prevenom instead? Etc. Once the PCs manage to destroy one of its corpses, boom, Final Strike takes off. That, again, will dumbfound the PCs. Nothing like killing a player that was just savoring his hard-earned victory…and it wasn’t even a victory to begin with. Lots and lots of fun and unpredictable turnarounds in a fight vs the Watcher.
The one things that disappoints me a little is how shallow his guarding duty is. Once the PCs discover the tale was a lie, and that there is nothing behind the Watcher apart from the Watcher itself, they might want to disengage from that fight and move on to something else. Of course, the DM can then have the Watcher pursue the PCs, or wreak havoc on the land around, etc but then it’s not a guardian villain anymore.

Spoiler: Claws-at-Heart: 15.75

Show

Spoiler: Originality: 3.75

Show

Hey, an animal! And a Greenbound one at that! It’s funny to see Greenbound animals used as something other than druid summons! Quite unusual. Corrupted spells are not something you see too often, nor is a template that can only be added to Int <4 monsters. That Guardian template, though obvious in retrospect, is a nice find.
On the other hand, Druid is rather expected as far as guardian classes go, and the general layout of the feats is close to that of a standardized Druid build.

Spoiler: Elegance: 4

Show

Greenbound changes your type to plant, which is not a suitable base type for the Guardian template. But Guardian changes your type to magical beast, which does not allow you to qualify for the Greenbound template. I suppose if you wanted to keep one of the two, you would like to conserve the Greenbound template, so the loss of the Guardian template does not represent that much of a loss in power.
You wrote your Darkvision as being of 160ft of range, but it is 120ft. At CR 8 your +1 in Wis grants you a +1 in Will save. Also, with the Greenbound template, your racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks in forested areas goes from +4 to +16, and not from +4 to +8 as was the case as a regular leopard, since racial bonuses don’t stack here. So that should be (+12 in forested areas) and not (+8) as you wrote.
Also, the way your skills is displayed makes it difficult to understand where the skill points went at each level. I think, since you invested 1 rank in Spellcraft at CR 4, that your skill bonus should be -3 and not -4.
Apart from that, both templates make complete sense for a gatekeeper creature, as does the Druid class taken from a certain viewpoint. No fuss about a complicated mess of class or obscure and hard to swallow RAW uses or feats. Neat  Your Mass Awaken trick is a very classy way to make something out of Timeless Body, even if that’s worth nothing in Power category (few campaigns will last long enouh to make Timeless Body matter by RAW).

Spoiler: Power: 4.25

Show

What we have here, is a sort of Druid. How does Claws measure as a guardian villain compared to a Druid 20 dude? For one, at low levels (CR 5), Claws is incredibly powerful. A pouncing monster with a high Strength, Multiattack, Improved Grab, a good grapple modifier, but also an at-will powerful debuff and battlefield control spell in Entangle (the low save DC is not a problem here since the spell is useful even on a successful save), and a 1/day Wall of Thorns that the PCS will have almost no way to bypass at that level. Damn. A regular Druid cannot do that. At mid-levels (CR 10), Claws suffers the comparison a little more but still holds its own. Other druids have picked up Blizzard and Haboob already; Claws is still at Call Lightning but Wall of Thorns is now level-appropriate. I have to admit, too, that the combination of Absorb Mind and Sheltered Vitality is neat. It is mostly for fluff, but fluff that then gives the DM a RAW reason to have Claws actively prepare for the PCs instead of getting surprised by them. The delay in Wild Shape is compensated by the fact that Claws is, in a way, an already Wild Shaped character. My take on Surrogate Spellcasting is that it is an enhanced version of Wild Shape for which it is harder to qualify. At high levels (CR 14 and up), Greenbound summoning is a feat most optimized Druids would have taken too, but which is thematic here. Eschew Material is strange. What spells does it allow you to cast that you could not before? In case these are numerous and powerful spells, you ought to have picked the feat earlier. Once again, I admire Death By Thorns combined with Sheltered Vitality. Besides, picking corrupted spells is a nice way to compensate for the fact that Druid 7 spells are rather subpar. The Mass Awaken trick is a useful way to justify by RAW Claws having a ton of minions, and creatures like elephants or treants have enough HPs to take a little of the PC’s time to be killed off.
Claws is also a little tougher than expected from a Druid. Fast healing and damage reduction are carried over through Wild Shape, which compensate for its only ok HPs.
Where Claws shine is the detection area. Blindsense, Tremorsense, huge range Darkvision, high Spot and Listen, Scent. And having an animal companion doubles up your detection checks. Spells can further enhance that, as you underlined.

Spoiler: Memorability: 3.75

Show

The funny thing is that if the PCs are somewhat versed in optimization, once they see the greenbound panther, they’ll start looking around for the druid who summoned him. To no avail. Claws is a decent opponent to face, what with his ambition to widen the territory he “protects” even more. What’s interesting is his trick to awaken the jungle around him. That definitely makes him leave his mark in the environment, which is a sign of a good villain. Even once he is defeated, creatures he has awakened will roam around, haunting the jungle forever. The PCs will most likely be dumbfounded by the corrupted spells too. Provide them with an occasion to Scry on Claws eating the brain of someone and visibly gaining his memories, and they will stop seeing him as yet another extremist druid who just wants to protect the forest, but as something far more sinister and that deserves its Evil alignment. Suggesting an Ardent version of him also makes him more adaptable to a wealth of settings and environments, which is nice.
That being said, at the end of the day, Claws’ build can be resumed in two words: Panther Druid. There isn’t much more than what I’ve mentioned that durably strikes the mind, neither in his tactics nor in his motivations, nor in the place he guards.

...wow, it did seem bigger on my Word file.

Thanks for your patience, all

[daremetoidareyo]

Worth the wait

[Thurbane]

Worth the wait

Definitely. Thanks again remetagross!

[WhamBamSam]

Build	daremetodareyou	remetagross	Total	Place
Lorelai G’Elsewhere: Guardian of the Gate	19	17.75	36.75	Gold
Mircea Raviwr	20	16.25	36.25	Silver
Rasharuach	19.25	16.75	36	Bronze
The Ghost of Grobzok the Guardian	17.25	17.75	35	4th
Claws-at-Heart	19.25	15.75	35	4th
The Watcher	18.25	16.5	34.75	6th
Narfle, the Garthog, Anthraxia Temple Guard, Chevalier First Class	18.25	15.25	33.5	7th
K.A.M.	17.75	14	31.75	8th
Slam	18.25	13.25	31.5	9th
Giolt	17.25	13.5	30.75	10th
Sally	16	13.5	29.5	11th
SHARLA THE BLACK ANGEL	16.5	10.75	27.25	12th
You shall not pass ! This way, good sir!	15	7.5	22.5	13th

[Venger]

thanks for the chart, WhamBamSam

[Inevitability]

Lorelei jumps three spots ahead to first place! Claws-at-Heart finds itself dropping several places! Grobzok manages to be the only build to actually receive a higher rating this time, allowing it to take a massive leap to 4th place! All prior ties are broken, with only one popping up to replace them! This is truly an epic struggle for points!

Speaking of struggles for points, we've got a dispute!

Just going to dispute 2 things here, as alas I cant seem to find my notes any more:


Elegance. Even if, agreed, the entry is not perfectly formatted and there are 1 or 2 "Overlooked" Errors, its a simple, rule legal, 1 Monster + 2 classes build.

The retroactive Skill gainage was legal (It has lsited class skills and there are rules for gaining skillpts after being awakened,, I made sure of that, however I am pressed for time atm and cant seem to find it, mayhap someone will help me out?).

Even if you are harsh on penalizing the small errors, less than a 3.5 is a bit over the top, no? ^^
After all, you "understand" I was strapped for time and yet judge really harshly. Maybe a result of your method of doing categories instead of entries?



Power: You seem to misinteprret what power means, and often made mistake in judgings. Its not "WHat strengths and weaknesses does it have, what can it do, now compare to Wizard+PC as 5.0. Its how good is it at what its supposed to do.

This is, oibviously, meant to be a melee guardian for more or less not too open places (See the theme of the COmpetition!).
Now if the theme had been "Unusual Warrior" I would completely agree with your arguments, yet even then a score of 2 is ...harsh.

it is however "You shall not pass", and that, aside from having only regular senses and scent, he does exceptionally well. Shadow Blink allows to flank, and hence to apply sneak attack as well.

I would suggest a score in the high 3s or low 4s for it.


Your other scores, as with past jugdings, are simply a manifestation of very different sense of cool/Style. In my rounds that Golem (and, granted, a few of the other entries even mroeso, that awakened beast, wow!) would be MUCH more memorable than your average Dragon, a Creature I`d put at a flat 3, but again, I cant really argue here as you simply see these things differently.

May I suggest in the future to NOT judge one category in all entries, as it seems to tilt the score squite a bit by making direct comparisons, which following earlier competitions is NOT intended.


Now all this might come across as a bit harsh, but again, I rushed the entry in, managed it barely, then waited for 2 months for the judging, and got shot down hard", so mayhap understandable?

Also the suggestion is meant to help, not only would judging in a more entry focussed way be likely more fair to the respective entries, it should also be much faster. :)


No hard Feelings I hope?

[remetagross]

Alright so let's see what we've got.

Elegance. Even if, agreed, the entry is not perfectly formatted and there are 1 or 2 "Overlooked" Errors, its a simple, rule legal, 1 Monster + 2 classes build.

The retroactive Skill gainage was legal (It has lsited class skills and there are rules for gaining skillpts after being awakened,, I made sure of that, however I am pressed for time atm and cant seem to find it, mayhap someone will help me out?).

Well, it maybe is, but I have found no source for that. It would have greatly helped if you had put it somewhere! As told before, the Awaken Construct spell template sends us back to the Monster Manual p.290 which then says

Skills: [...]Some templates change how skill points are determined, but this change usually only affects skill points gained after the template is applied.

Besides, since the golem has no skills as class skills (contrary to what you say), all of his skills have to be bought cross-class. Provided we can determine that the golem does indeed retroactively gain skill points, that would amount to a total of (42+3)*2 = 90. But the golem spends 19*2 skill points on Listen and Spot, and 10*2 on Sense Motive, for a total of 96 skill points. [/QUOTE]

Even if you are harsh on penalizing the small errors, less than a 3.5 is a bit over the top, no? ^^

Hey, if you want to judge your own build, be my guest
More seriously, there's a fairly big number of small errors. Beside, you will notice that K.A.M. received a 2 in Elegance just like the golem, sharing with it such oddities as gaining initiator levels when the background of the creature really does not hint at the possibility for the creature to be trained as a charismatic battlemaster.

After all, you "understand" I was strapped for time and yet judge really harshly. Maybe a result of your method of doing categories instead of entries?

I understand, which does not mean I will judge you in a more benevolent light than the others. That would be unfair to them. Besides, I don't think we're here to criticize my method of judging, but rather the result that came out of it

No change (unless the skill point thing is sourced to be RAW, in which case I will increase the Elegance score by 0.5)

Power: You seem to misinteprret what power means, and often made mistake in judgings.
"WHat strengths and weaknesses does it have, what can it do, now compare to Wizard+PC as 5.0. Its how good is it at what its supposed to do.

Actually, I'm pretty sure this is how I have judged this comp notice how neither Lorelai nor Claws got a 5 in power because they had 15+ caster levels? And yet the Watcher, with his poor 4th level power manifesting, got a higher mark than them. Let alone Rasharuach, which does not have a single casting or manifesting ability, that still got a higher mark than both of those casters.

This is, oibviously, meant to be a melee guardian for more or less not too open places (See the theme of the COmpetition!).

Two things here. For one, this is an argument ("the terrain will help") that can be equally applied to all entries. As such, i cannot give (or deduct) points to any one entry because it can count on the terrain to compensate for its weaknesses.
Then, what does a closed space mean for ECL 20 PCs, which is the level at which the golem is supposed to be at its strongest? Etherealness, Xorn Movement, Burrow, Wind Walk, Gaseous Form, Overland Flight, Polymorphing the whole party into ants...

Now if the theme had been "Unusual Warrior" I would completely agree with your arguments, yet even then a score of 2 is ...harsh.

it is however "You shall not pass", and that, aside from having only regular senses and scent, he does exceptionally well. Shadow Blink allows to flank, and hence to apply sneak attack as well.

I would suggest a score in the high 3s or low 4s for it.

Once again, if you want to be your own judge...
For one, Shadow Blink allows it to move fast...not to flank. You need a flanking buddy for that, and the golem has none. Besides, look, let's compare the Golem to other entries that can be resumed as "beatstick that tries to crush the PCs". Who do we get in that area? Slam, Giolt, K.A.M., Rasharuach, the Watcher. All of those entries have been rated in the power category as direct damage guys/debuffer guys. At level 20, the golem can hit for maybe 70 damage a round plus Time Stands Still, and move to position. Slam can bull rush the PCs and Pounce them for that much. Giolt can lock them down as a Crusader, plus has a couple spell-like abilities for battlefiled control. K.A.M can deal about as much as you but also destroys their items and has a respectable breath attack. Rasharuach hits less hard but deals vile damage. The Watcher deals less damage until it explodes, and has a ton of debuffing effects. At level 20, the golem is maybe the hardest-hitting of them all. But it is not the most mobile (nor are Slam or K.A.M., hence their score, whereas Rasharuach and the Watcher fly, and Giolt does not require moving as much since he prevents the others from doing so) as his maneuvers are more or less 1/encounter, it is not the most resilient as save buffers are 1/day and besides it cannot ready every maneuver at once (while Slam and Giolt are also immune to mind-affecting effects, the latter also having Spell turning and the power to heal himself, K.A.M. has slippery mind and deals Con damage to those that attack it at close range, the Watcher is a Lich and Rasharuach has ginormous HPs and saves) and it cannot detect the PCs all that well (Slam and K.A.M were similarly penalized).
Most of all, the Golem is only a CR 17-20 opponent. While it may best some of the aforementioned villains in certain areas at CR 20, it is greatly underwhelming at all other CRs. Being a respectable opponent at CR 17-20 in one's category (beatstick) but a weak one at CR 1-16 (that is, 80% of the game time) is a weakness that does not similarly cripple the other builds, hence their higher marks. Sharla wasn't penalized because she started at CR 8, which is twice as early as the golem.

Still, I'll admit reviewing the Golem in light of the other villains a second time has given me a slightly better sense of their comparative level. In regard of this, I deem it fairer to increase You Shall Not Pass/This Way, Good Sir! power score by 0.5.

Your other scores, as with past jugdings, are simply a manifestation of very different sense of cool/Style.

this is the first time I judge, so I don't understant what you're hinting at...

In my rounds that Golem (and, granted, a few of the other entries even mroeso, that awakened beast, wow!) would be MUCH more memorable than your average Dragon, a Creature I`d put at a flat 3, but again, I cant really argue here as you simply see these things differently.

Here you go

May I suggest in the future to NOT judge one category in all entries, as it seems to tilt the score squite a bit by making direct comparisons, which following earlier competitions is NOT intended.

I haven't seen anywhere that this is not intended...my whole judging actually revolved around comparing the entries to one another, so as to get a fair judgement. If you don't do this, how can you expect to get an accurate ranking at the end? There is no absolute scale for measuring the power of a villain in D&D, hence any judging has to be relative. Heck, you yourself said I should (and I did, by the way) judge the golem as a beatstick villain, not as a Wizard villain. Doesn't that mean that you want me to compare your entry to an ideal beatstick villain to which I would give a 5/5 in Power? It entails that, since all the beatstick entries have been compared to that ideal calibrated villain, they have been indirectly compared to one another, regardless of any conscious effort from my part to then directly compare them!

Now all this might come across as a bit harsh, but again, I rushed the entry in, managed it barely, then waited for 2 months for the judging, and got shot down hard", so mayhap understandable? [...] No hard Feelings I hope?

It did come across a bit harsh, but hey, that's fair game. If one doesn't want to get some flak and some heated conflict, one does not agree to be a judge right? besides, my answer to your dispute might seem a little harsh as well!

Also the suggestion is meant to help, not only would judging in a more entry focussed way be likely more fair to the respective entries, it should also be much faster. :)

Faster, that's for sure! Fairer...I actually think that judging that way allows for a better comparison between the various entries since you judge them side by side in each point from which they can be compared. Hey, what's the Playground take on that one?

[Death_Lord12]

May I suggest in the future to NOT judge one category in all entries, as it seems to tilt the score squite a bit by making direct comparisons, which following earlier competitions is NOT intended.

I haven't seen anywhere that this is not intended...my whole judging actually revolved around comparing the entries to one another, so as to get a fair judgement. If you don't do this, how can you expect to get an accurate ranking at the end? There is no absolute scale for measuring the power of a villain in D&D, hence any judging has to be relative. Heck, you yourself said I should (and I did, by the way) judge the golem as a beatstick villain, not as a Wizard villain. Doesn't that mean that you want me to compare your entry to an ideal beatstick villain to which I would give a 5/5 in Power? It entails that, since all the beatstick entries have been compared to that ideal calibrated villain, they have been indirectly compared to one another, regardless of any conscious effort from my part to then directly compare them

...I actually think that judging that way allows for a better comparison between the various entries since you judge them side by side in each point from which they can be compared. Hey, what's the Playground take on that one?

I think that, by comparing each entree to each other, you can make the scoring skewed. Say for example you are comparing the Power of the entries. If you automatically put the highest power build at 5/5, that doesn't mean it actually is that powerful, compared to say a monster in the Monster Manual, compared to something there it could be a 3 or 4 out of 5. You stated that you compare all of the same types of villain, in this case beatstick, to get your score. What happens if there's only one beat stick though? By your method of judging you would have nothing to compare it to, so do you give it a 5, a 1? That seems like it would be inaccurate most of the time.

Also, still using the Power example, if one entree is significantly more powerful than every other one, that gives you a way to justify making that entree a 5/5 and all of the others a 1/5. Conversely if one is significantly weaker than every other one, that gives you a way to justify making that entree a 1/5 and all of the others a 5/5.

I'm exaggerating these situations but hopefully you see my point. Personally I think the best way to judge is not to compare it to other entrees. If you need to compare it then you can compare to something that is already made, such as a monster or prebuilt villain in a book.

[remetagross]

I think that, by comparing each entree to each other, you can make the scoring skewed. Say for example you are comparing the Power of the entries. If you automatically put the highest power build at 5/5, that doesn't mean it actually is that powerful, compared to say a monster in the Monster Manual, compared to something there it could be a 3 or 4 out of 5. You stated that you compare all of the same types of villain, in this case beatstick, to get your score. What happens if there's only one beat stick though? By your method of judging you would have nothing to compare it to, so do you give it a 5, a 1? That seems like it would be inaccurate most of the time.

Also, still using the Power example, if one entree is significantly more powerful than every other one, that gives you a way to justify making that entree a 5/5 and all of the others a 1/5. Conversely if one is significantly weaker than every other one, that gives you a way to justify making that entree a 1/5 and all of the others a 5/5.

I'm exaggerating these situations but hopefully you see my point. Personally I think the best way to judge is not to compare it to other entrees. If you need to compare it then you can compare to something that is already made, such as a monster or prebuilt villain in a book.

These points are entirely valid. But I did not judge solely by comparing builds to each other; else, indeed, I would have put 5 to the best and 1 to the weakest. And indeed in case there is only one build of a certain type it doesn't work anymore. I combined both approaches: for Lorelei for example, I measured it against a Wizard 20. Hence she does not have 5 in power, nor 1. On the other hand, for the beatsticks, I first compared each of them to the ideal beatstick, hence similarly, the best did not get 5 and the weakest did not get 1. Then, on a second reading, I compared the grades I gave to each of the beatstick entries and tried to see if I had been consistent. Did I give the same mark to two builds of approximately identical strength? I used that second approach to fine-tune my judgement.

[Inevitability]

Lengthy disputes.

I just want to say thank you, for such an in depth judging, one where no matter how hard I try I can only point out a few small things that I think you've done incorrect for my Slam.

Class: The Quorcraft Warforged template advances "by class" even though it is mindless. This is the only mindless template that has that, and it truly is the exception to the rule. I believe usually you require at least 3 intelligence to take class levels, however specific trumps general. So slam *can* take fighter levels before he becomes sentient.

Skills: mindless creatures can not put ranks into skills. However I'm fairly sure it is RAW that inherited templates, and becoming sentient (in the case of - intelligence only) are the only ways to gain ranks after the fact. I unfortunately have been afb and will continue to be afb for several more days so cannot look up the actual information.

And I want to say that I am sorry for so many mistakes in the saves there, I don't know what happened there but it kind of sucks that I did. The 2 kn arcana was for a prestige class I was thinking about entering and never did. And I took cobalt charge entirely for the thematic appeal, I definitely agree about shock trooper

Thank you once again Remetagross!

Well, it maybe is, but I have found no source for that. It would have greatly helped if you had put it somewhere! As told before, the Awaken Construct spell template sends us back to the Monster Manual p.290 which then says


Besides, since the golem has no skills as class skills (contrary to what you say), all of his skills have to be bought cross-class. Provided we can determine that the golem does indeed retroactively gain skill points, that would amount to a total of (42+3)*2 = 90. But the golem spends 19*2 skill points on Listen and Spot, and 10*2 on Sense Motive, for a total of 96 skill points.

As I said, I cant find it atm, but overall I only used the SRD, MM and similar sources. Most likely it was somewhere in the "Advancing Mosnters Section and/or FAQ.

Hey, if you want to judge your own build, be my guest
More seriously, there's a fairly big number of small errors. Beside, you will notice that K.A.M. received a 2 in Elegance just like the golem, sharing with it such oddities as gaining initiator levels when the background of the creature really does not hint at the possibility for the creature to be trained as a charismatic battlemaster.

Background is unimportant if theres a RAW legal explanation, unless its really cheesy. And awakeing a construct and teaching it initiatin isnt really,, is it? ^^

I understand, which does not mean I will judge you in a more benevolent light than the others. That would be unfair to them. Besides, I don't think we're here to criticize my method of judging, but rather the result that came out of it

No change (unless the skill point thing is sourced to be RAW, in which case I will increase the Elegance score by 0.5)

See below for the method.

Two things here. For one, this is an argument ("the terrain will help") that can be equally applied to all entries. As such, i cannot give (or deduct) points to any one entry because it can count on the terrain to compensate for its weaknesses.
Then, what does a closed space mean for ECL 20 PCs, which is the level at which the golem is supposed to be at its strongest? Etherealness, Xorn Movement, Burrow, Wind Walk, Gaseous Form, Overland Flight, Polymorphing the whole party into ants...

That is something I ahve to agree to....if it wasnt a problem for ANY beatstick. And hence a thing that downgrades EVERY beatstick, and hence should not really make a hug impression in the judging, in my humble opinion.

For one, Shadow Blink allows it to move fast...not to flank. You need a flanking buddy for that, and the golem has none. Besides, look, let's compare the Golem to other entries that can be resumed as "beatstick that tries to crush the PCs". Who do we get in that area? Slam, Giolt, K.A.M., Rasharuach, the Watcher. All of those entries have been rated in the power category as direct damage guys/debuffer guys. At level 20, the golem can hit for maybe 70 damage a round plus Time Stands Still, and move to position. Slam can bull rush the PCs and Pounce them for that much. Giolt can lock them down as a Crusader, plus has a couple spell-like abilities for battlefiled control. K.A.M can deal about as much as you but also destroys their items and has a respectable breath attack. Rasharuach hits less hard but deals vile damage. The Watcher deals less damage until it explodes, and has a ton of debuffing effects. At level 20, the golem is maybe the hardest-hitting of them all. But it is not the most mobile (nor are Slam or K.A.M., hence their score, whereas Rasharuach and the Watcher fly, and Giolt does not require moving as much since he prevents the others from doing so) as his maneuvers are more or less 1/encounter, it is not the most resilient as save buffers are 1/day and besides it cannot ready every maneuver at once (while Slam and Giolt are also immune to mind-affecting effects, the latter also having Spell turning and the power to heal himself, K.A.M. has slippery mind and deals Con damage to those that attack it at close range, the Watcher is a Lich and Rasharuach has ginormous HPs and saves) and it cannot detect the PCs all that well (Slam and K.A.M were similarly penalized).
Most of all, the Golem is only a CR 17-20 opponent. While it may best some of the aforementioned villains in certain areas at CR 20, it is greatly underwhelming at all other CRs. Being a respectable opponent at CR 17-20 in one's category (beatstick) but a weak one at CR 1-16 (that is, 80% of the game time) is a weakness that does not similarly cripple the other builds, hence their higher marks. Sharla wasn't penalized because she started at CR 8, which is twice as early as the golem.

Still, I'll admit reviewing the Golem in light of the other villains a second time has given me a slightly better sense of their comparative level. In regard of this, I deem it fairer to increase You Shall Not Pass/This Way, Good Sir! power score by 0.5.

There is no need to do more than one CR writeup, and penalizing that with more than a say .5 would make many many more unique concepts lose from the get go.

But OK, lets say I judged my little Golem.

I would start with 3.0 for "Is a simple yet powerful beatstick that can do wqhat its supposed to do under simple circumstances".

Then I`d add 1.0 for "Is immune to any mind affecting and direct magic" and another .25 to .5 for "Can even without his shtick (Manuevers) hit REALLY REALLY hard and accurate.

Then I`d subtract .5 for "Many maneuvers are hard if not impossible to recover in a battle" and .25 to.5 for "Has only limited additional senses".

I never said Powe rwas supposed to be its rime category, but a 2 or .5 is "Barely able to do what its supposed to do", if we follow past competitions and the original formulation of the areas.

Ah well, if Ic ant change your ind, thats how it is.

this is the first time I judge, so I don't understant what you're hinting at...

I could have sworn you had judged already, my bad.

I haven't seen anywhere that this is not intended...my whole judging actually revolved around comparing the entries to one another, so as to get a fair judgement. If you don't do this, how can you expect to get an accurate ranking at the end? There is no absolute scale for measuring the power of a villain in D&D, hence any judging has to be relative. Heck, you yourself said I should (and I did, by the way) judge the golem as a beatstick villain, not as a Wizard villain. Doesn't that mean that you want me to compare your entry to an ideal beatstick villain to which I would give a 5/5 in Power? It entails that, since all the beatstick entries have been compared to that ideal calibrated villain, they have been indirectly compared to one another, regardless of any conscious effort from my part to then directly compare them!

Simple, just about any judge so far has, logically, judged the Entries on their own merit.

After you have done that you MIGHT do one or 2 comparisons to fine adjust the pts, but if you set out with that, you judge them unfairly.

If you dont see that its no good idea to start with comparing the entries, and hence land with skewed results, lets give an example.

Lets say the theme is FIre. Lets also say, 3 of the entries were (very different) Dragons.
Now if you judge them all seperately, you ewill (rightly so) assauge their power, niche and style one by one, and maybe, if necessary, do a short side by side at the end to determine if one outpowers the others.

If you start comparing them, they will all lose in Originality (3 dragons) and the less maximum optimized will lose in Power, while the more complex lose in Elegeance, no matter if its actually necessary or not.

In the first case, the final point value speaks for themselves and provides a largely unbiased by competition ranking.

In the second case the Judge chooses clear "Winners" in a "VS Competition.

I for one would never compete in the second kind willingly and also never had the impression that this was the point of this Competition. (There are other comps for that on the boeard however :) ).

Please see this as a general dispute intended to HELP, I ahve already given up on getting more points anyway, as the way we see it seems incompatible AND the Judging has gone on soo long already.

Faster, that's for sure! Fairer...I actually think that judging that way allows for a better comparison between the various entries since you judge them side by side in each point from which they can be compared. Hey, what's the Playground take on that one?

Thew comparison is not the Judges job.

See above. :)


Summing it up: I hope I got my point across, not gonna argue points anymore, but if I get to help your future judging, that alone is worthwile.

[remetagross]

Alright so let's deal with them one at a time.

Spoiler: Slam dispute

Show

Class: The Quorcraft Warforged template advances "by class" even though it is mindless. This is the only mindless template that has that, and it truly is the exception to the rule. I believe usually you require at least 3 intelligence to take class levels, however specific trumps general. So slam *can* take fighter levels before he becomes sentient.

Wow. Nice find, then. I have to admit, I totally overlooked that. Anyway, you did not get points deducted for that, since it was really nothing to switch around the order of application between the two fighter levels and the template.

Skills: mindless creatures can not put ranks into skills. However I'm fairly sure it is RAW that inherited templates, and becoming sentient (in the case of - intelligence only) are the only ways to gain ranks after the fact. I unfortunately have been afb and will continue to be afb for several more days so cannot look up the actual information.

Well, this is the same issue as with You Shall Not Pass. I haven't been able to find a RAW source for that, but I'd gladly take one if you find one. Regardless of the outcome of this research, anyway, the aforementioned swapping neatly deals with these skill point issues, and no points were deducted for that either. You got 4.5 instead of 5 mainly because of that Dungeoncrasher issue.

Spoiler: You Shall Not Pass!/This Way, Good Sir! dispute

Show

As I said, I cant find it atm, but overall I only used the SRD, MM and similar sources. Most likely it was somewhere in the "Advancing Mosnters Section and/or FAQ.

Once again, it is entirely possible that the source is somewhere under our nose and we cannot find it, but as long as we do not have it, the elegance score is not changing.

Background is unimportant if theres a RAW legal explanation, unless its really cheesy. And awakeing a construct and teaching it initiatin isnt really,, is it? ^^

Well actually, I have a hard time seeing how a mage will teach a golem the Sublime Way and besides, I do think background is important in the Elegance category, precisely because pulling off a RAW but unrealistic explanation to justify a part of the build is what I call an inelegant thing.

That is something I ahve to agree to....if it wasnt a problem for ANY beatstick. And hence a thing that downgrades EVERY beatstick, and hence should not really make a hug impression in the judging, in my humble opinion.

Not really. Look, Rasharuach and the Watcher are both flyers. This means that, beatsticks they might be, they are far less reliant on an enclosed battlefield than Giolt, You Shall Not Pass, Slam or K.A.M. to be effective. Or you can see it that way: while the other villains will have to blow 50k of their (fairly small) NPC wealth by level for a Phoenix Cloak, those two will buy a Ring of Freedom of Movement and a Fanged Ring instead. And then Rasharuach has no more ways of dealing with incorporeal villains than You Shall Not Pass! has: this has prevented her from netting a 5 in Power. On the other hand, the Watcher specifically though about that and mentioned the Force enhancement it can give to its melee attacks: it gained some points for that. Hence, this is far from being a problem with every beatstick.

There is no need to do more than one CR writeup, and penalizing that with more than a say .5 would make many many more unique concepts lose from the get go.

I can assure you that You Shall Not Pass did not get a higher reduction than that from being online that late.

But OK, lets say I judged my little Golem.

I would start with 3.0 for "Is a simple yet powerful beatstick that can do wqhat its supposed to do under simple circumstances".

Then I`d add 1.0 for "Is immune to any mind affecting and direct magic" and another .25 to .5 for "Can even without his shtick (Manuevers) hit REALLY REALLY hard and accurate.

Then I`d subtract .5 for "Many maneuvers are hard if not impossible to recover in a battle" and .25 to.5 for "Has only limited additional senses".

I never said Powe rwas supposed to be its rime category, but a 2 or .5 is "Barely able to do what its supposed to do", if we follow past competitions and the original formulation of the areas.

Alright, look. Let's assume we took your way. I'd start with 3.0 for the power of the golem including the power granted by its maneuvers, because without that it has no business fighting ECL 20 PCs. Hence, I won't separately add another 0.5 for "Can even without his shtick (Manuevers) hit REALLY REALLY hard and accurate." I'd then add 1 for "many immunities and save buffers, good HPs". I'd then substract 0.5 for "no way to detect the PCs" and then another 0.5 for "cannot ready all the maneuvers at the same time (teleporting, save buffing, time stands still) and they're practically 1/encounter which means it loses to time." Then there would be another -0.5 for "poor mobility and lack of versatility in how the PCs are threatened (only physical HP damage)". And that makes us reach 2.5 again.

Simple, just about any judge so far has, logically, judged the Entries on their own merit.

This is a very bold affirmation to make...have you had confirmation of that from just about any of those judges so far?

After you have done that you MIGHT do one or 2 comparisons to fine adjust the pts, but if you set out with that, you judge them unfairly.

If you dont see that its no good idea to start with comparing the entries, and hence land with skewed results.

In that regard, I suppose you posted your dispute before my exchange with Death_Lord12, wherein I explain that indeed, I did the comparisons to fine adjust the points, and not as a first analysis.

Lets say the theme is FIre. Lets also say, 3 of the entries were (very different) Dragons.
Now if you judge them all seperately, you ewill (rightly so) assauge their power, niche and style one by one, and maybe, if necessary, do a short side by side at the end to determine if one outpowers the others.

This is pretty much how I judged. My side by side comparison was a little longer than short, though.

In the first case, the final point value speaks for themselves and provides a largely unbiased by competition ranking.

In the second case the Judge chooses clear "Winners" in a "VS Competition.

Ah. I think I see your point. What you're saying is that this comp is here for people to get their villain judged mainly for itself, and almost as an afterthought for it being ranked and compared to the others. I do agree with that, and I can see how the way I explained my way of judging could be understood as a primarily competing way. I hope the anwser I gave to Death_Lord12 clears that misunderstanding.

Thew comparison is not the Judges job.

I believe it is, insofar as it is a tool to provide a fairer judgement across the board. It is not when it becomes the end-all, be-all of judging. But "comparison" should not become a forbidden word on this thread. Else, why bother comparing the grades of each entry and awarding medals?

[PrismCat21]

Two things I'd like to bring up and would appreciate confirmation to.

1. If you're not a contestant, I believe you should not interfere with a judges decision or how they came to that decision. I say don't even comment on it. If there's a real issue, message the Chair.
If you are a contestant, use the dispute process.
2. How a Judge decides to Judge is up to them. As long as they follow the guidelines set forth by the Chair, they're doing it the right way. No one else gets to decide they're doing it wrong, let alone try and call them out on it. If you have a real issue, message the Chair.

[NontheistCleric]

Two things I'd like to bring up and would appreciate confirmation to.

1. If you're not a contestant, I believe you should not interfere with a judges decision or how they came to that decision. I say don't even comment on it. If there's a real issue, message the Chair.
If you are a contestant, use the dispute process.
2. How a Judge decides to Judge is up to them. As long as they follow the guidelines set forth by the Chair, they're doing it the right way. No one else gets to decide they're doing it wrong, let alone try and call them out on it. If you have a real issue, message the Chair.

I don't think it's wrong for someone to ask a question about a judge's methods. Everyone is entitled to say what they want (provided it is in a civil manner). Similarly, though, a judge has no obligation to modify their judging or even respond if they don't want to, and if the person asking is suitably polite and respectful, they should just accept that and not pursue the matter further.

To put restrictions on what we can and cannot say, especially when, as remetagross demonstrated above, some judges are perfectly willing to discuss their own judgements with non-contestants, is not necessary.

Of course, if there's something you feel that really needs to be subject to official action, then the Chair is the only person to go to, but as long as discussion can be kept civil and feelings unhurt, there's no reason we can't simply talk about these things.

[Thurbane]

Two things I'd like to bring up and would appreciate confirmation to.

1. If you're not a contestant, I believe you should not interfere with a judges decision or how they came to that decision. I say don't even comment on it. If there's a real issue, message the Chair.
If you are a contestant, use the dispute process.
2. How a Judge decides to Judge is up to them. As long as they follow the guidelines set forth by the Chair, they're doing it the right way. No one else gets to decide they're doing it wrong, let alone try and call them out on it. If you have a real issue, message the Chair.

I agree with this 110%.

When I was chairing this comp, I shut down any "armchair commentary" raising rules issues with entries (and to a lesser degree, commentary on judging), and I shut it down hard.

I feel it detracts a lot from what is meant to be a "just for fun" internet competition, IMHO.

If spectators feel strongly enough about an entry or judging to comment on it, they should just step up and judge themselves.

...and if it's other competitors, it's incredibly poor sportsmanship.

Just my 2 coppers.

[Braininthejar2]

Eh, a month waiting, and I end up near the very bottom, as expected...

My current motivation is focused on painting miniatures, but once it shifts again, I m ight give it another try.

[Braininthejar2]

A Duskblade Crusader Vampiress. And the second vampire at that, as well as the second Crusader. Nothing original here.

Oh.

I thought my very low grade was due to my entry being a blatant homage to an existing fictional character.

I didn't expect to be judged on what other people posted.


Interspacing duskblade and crusader levels was to get both classes online as early as I could, while giving me a little boost to the initiator level, so I don't have to choose too many low level maneuvers.

My bad on the skill points. it was the most tedious part of the build.

[Darrin]

I didn't expect to be judged on what other people posted.

It varies from judge to judge. Some of them will mark down Originality if you picked an "obvious" entry method or if a large number of contestants pick the same base class as the foundation of the build. It may seem unfair, since the chefs build and submit their entries without consulting any other chef, but it's mostly just an arbitrary mechanism to separate some of the unusual builds from the rest of the pack. Try not to think of it as a penalty and more of just a method to produce a series of numbers on a spectrum that aren't all 3's.

[daremetoidareyo]

In with Darrin and remetagross. You simply have to cross compare dishes to some degree. After reading 13 entries, all of which have a power floor much above typical CR, you gotta cross compare at least a little to better refine the scores

[remetagross]

Oh.

I thought my very low grade was due to my entry being a blatant homage to an existing fictional character.

I didn't expect to be judged on what other people posted.

Huh. Contestants are expected not to directly submit your disputes on an non-anonymous way, but to make them transit by the chairman. Nevertheless, well; I must admit my ignorance here: which one is that existing fictional character?
As for the comparison part, I feel this has been expressed well enough by Darrin and daremetoidaryeo just above (whom I thank), as well as by myself when I answered the dispute for You Shall Not Pass/This Way, Good Sir!

Interspacing duskblade and crusader levels was to get both classes online as early as I could, while giving me a little boost to the initiator level, so I don't have to choose too many low level maneuvers.

My bad on the skill points. it was the most tedious part of the build.

Well, in the peculiar case of a Duskblade/Crusader multiclassing character, it was a better idea not to separate the levels. If you wanted to get higher level maneuvers, your best bet was to put all the Crusader levels at the end, as I suggested - it is worth more than having an earlier access to Thicket of Blades (which I feel was less worth than 3 extra 2nd level spell slots and 2 extra 2nd level spells known) and Indomitable Soul (since the increase you got in Will saves was only +2, that is, only 1 more than what 2 levels of Duskblades would have given). Besides, it allowed you to gain your most powerful trick, Full Attacking Bestow Curse Chanelling, two levels earlier.

No change.

[ben-zayb]

I haven't checked the comps lately, so I'm a bit confused why there are two Villain comp contests running at the same time. Is that intended?

[GrayDeath]

This ones judging has been going on for months, so the new one was started even if this one is not truly "finished" yet.

Its not intentionally confusing, just incidentally so. ^^

[jdizzlean]

I haven't checked the comps lately, so I'm a bit confused why there are two Villain comp contests running at the same time. Is that intended?

if you read back through this one, inevitability asked for someone to take over, and remetagross for a new round to be posted while the 2nd judging on this one was delayed. This round has been going on for 3 months, so it was time to post another one despite judging not being completed.

it's a little weird as there are 2 different chairs for both VC's running, so questions on this one relate to Inevitability, and questions on the new one go to me. Plus, I feel weird submitting a grievance as i'm now the chair moving forward. it's all a bit of fun.