Ebberon bard help

[Chronomancer79]

Hey so my wife wants to play a dragonmarked bard in ebberon can I get help with a good build. All end books allowed no dragon or third party. Thanks in advancd

[retaliation08]

What race and house and mark does she want to have?

[hamishspence]

Given that "the entertainer dragonmark houses" are Phiarlan and Thuranni,

I would speculate that "elf with the Mark of Shadow" is going to be the "most neat" fit.


However, there may be more roles to Bard than just "entertainer".

"Singing up a storm" could be House Lyrandar, Mark of Storm, half-elven

"Music sooths the savage beast" could be House Vadalis, Mark of Handling, human

And so forth.

(Even for the two Mark of Shadow houses - Entertainer is more their "cover identity" - their speciality is spy/assassin.)

[Falontani]

Take words of creation from book of exalted deeds and you could use the mark of making to great effect while still synergizing with bard

[Nifft]

(Even for the two Mark of Shadow houses - Entertainer is more their "cover identity" - their speciality is spy/assassin.)

I'd argue that one of the most fun spy Bards is a gnome from Zilargo with the Mark of Scribing, and your shows are just a cover for your real business (spy / information broker). The nice thing here is that you don't need to follow up every plot-hook immediately, you just need to write the all down and send them back to your gnomic masters.

The Mark of Hospitality (halfling) also makes for a great traveling show, since you can provide the menu or at higher level the whole venue. Also what Bard would turn down access to clothier's closet for free unlimited outfits? It's even a spell-like ability (i.e. no 100 gp gem required).

[retaliation08]

I'd argue that one of the most fun spy Bards is a gnome from Zilargo with the Mark of Scribing, and your shows are just a cover for your real business (spy / information broker). The nice thing here is that you don't need to follow up every plot-hook immediately, you just need to write the all down and send them back to your gnomic masters.

The Mark of Hospitality (halfling) also makes for a great traveling show, since you can provide the menu or at higher level the whole venue. Also what Bard would turn down access to clothier's closet for free unlimited outfits? It's even a spell-like ability (i.e. no 100 gp gem required).

Second the mark of hospitality. Ive got a Hospitality Wizard on deck for one of my games.

As for bard builds... Taking a Dragontouched (dip in Dragonfire Adept gives you Dragontouched at 1st level as a bonus feat and breath weapon) feat qualifies you for Dragonfire Inspiration shenanigans which could fit thematically with your dragonmarked heritage.

If you can talk the DM into letting your Least Dragonmark qualify you for Dragonfire Inspiration, then you can save a feat.

Don't forget the Music of Creation Eberron Bard Variant that offers some bard specific feats (Notably Song of the Heart) as bonus feats.

Also Badge of Valor item for +1 to inspire courage bonus.

So with a lenient DM,first 3 levels could look something like:

Strongheart Halfling / Human
Bard 1: Least Mark of (X), Dragonfire Inspiration (racial bonus), Healing Hymn ACF, Bardic Knack ACF
Bard 2: 1st level spells (Inspirational boost*)
Bard 3: Open feat, Song of the Heart (Music of Creation replacing Inspire Competence)

The open feat should probably be used for Prc prereqs.

These first few levels open up a bit or extra versatility with Dragonmark SLAs and Bardic Knack bonus to skills (Be sure to put a rank in Trained only skills). Healing Hymn ACF is a nice substitute for Fascinate if you plan to Prc out before getting Suggestion and it offers some nice healing utility (nice fluff with house Jorasco or Ghallanda). By level 3, Inspire Courage bonuses should be at +4. So With DFI, thats +4d6 fire to allied damage rolls.

[Nifft]

Bard 3: Open feat, Song of the Heart (Music of Creation replacing Inspire Competence)

Song of the Heart requires Inspire Competence, so that would be illegal.


Anyway, to the OP: http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1072.0 <-- here's a good link for Dragonmark mechanical discussion, for your wife to peruse.

[retaliation08]

Song of the Heart requires Inspire Competence, so that would be illegal.


Anyway, to the OP: http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1072.0 <-- here's a good link for Dragonmark mechanical discussion, for your wife to peruse.

Yes, by RAW it would be. A lenient DM may allow it since Inspire Competence is a bit underwhelming. If not (and if you want Song of the Heart as a bonus feat), you will have to wait to Prc out until it can replace Suggestion at 6th level with Song of the Heart, especially if you traded Fascinate for Healing Hymn.

If you don't need that open feat at 3rd level, you could just take Song of the Heart with your level 3 feat and Prc out without waiting for Suggestion at Bard 6.

[Chronomancer79]

Sorry yeah she want mark of storm and form the original house with that mark. She want to be the face and spy of the group and has her heart set on bard.

[Nifft]

Sorry yeah she want mark of storm and form the original house with that mark. She want to be the face and spy of the group and has her heart set on bard.

Does your DM allow dragonmarks on variant races (e.g. Forestlord Half-Elf from Dragon Magic)?

[Chronomancer79]

Does your DM allow dragonmarks on variant races (e.g. Forestlord Half-Elf from Dragon Magic)?

No only on the races in the book by core ebberon book.

[retaliation08]

Sorry yeah she want mark of storm and form the original house with that mark. She want to be the face and spy of the group and has her heart set on bard.

Ah, well in that case, Half-elf Bard substitution levels offer Soothing Voice instead of Countersong. My previous statements regarding DFI might still work if she can take Flaws.

If Flaws are out, I think the build is pretty straightforward: Least Mark at 1st level, Song of he Heart at 3rd level, Lesser mark at 6th level. Healing hymn, Soothing voice, Bardic Knack. Prc out ASAP.

If she is interested in a melee build, feats like Snowflake Wardance (Cha to melee attack rolls) and Storm's Riposte (immediate action electric charged counter attack) might interest her instead of Inspire Courage stuff.

[Nifft]

No only on the races in the book by core ebberon book.

Okay, so the usual fun trick (dragonblood race + Dragonfire Inspiration feat) is not cheap, and should probably be avoided.

What level is she starting out?

Have you already shown her the Bard handbooks? Stuff like: http://www.joshuad.net/new-bard-handbook/

[Chronomancer79]

Ah, well in that case, Half-elf Bard substitution levels offer Soothing Voice instead of Countersong. My previous statements regarding DFI might still work if she can take Flaws.

If Flaws are out, I think the build is pretty straightforward: Least Mark at 1st level, Song of he Heart at 3rd level, Lesser mark at 6th level. Healing hymn, Soothing voice, Bardic Knack. Prc out ASAP.

If she is interested in a melee build, feats like Snowflake Wardance (Cha to melee attack rolls) and Storm's Riposte (immediate action electric charged counter attack) might interest her instead of Inspire Courage stuff.

I meant storm of shadow sorry long day

[retaliation08]

I meant storm of shadow sorry long day

Mark of Shadow? Ah yeah, the Snowflake Wardance/Storm's riposte is not gonna work either.

Looking at the Dragonmarked Prodigy/Adept/Visionary line, the isn't a whole lot there worth burning a feat on to unlock extra uses of her Mark of Shadow due to their dependence on CL.

Half-elf Paragon does not advance casting very much, but offers some versatility with a bonus feat, ability score increase, and bonuses to perception and social skills. Bard 2/ Rogue 1 (for Spot, Search, Trapfinding, and Sneak Attack)/Half-elf Paragon 2 (If you need the bonus feat or skill bonuses)/ Unseen Seer 1 might be interesting for a Shadowy spy bard, but it loses two CL from the Paragon and Rogue levels.

[Chronomancer79]

Ah, well in that case, Half-elf Bard substitution levels offer Soothing Voice instead of Countersong. My previous statements regarding DFI might still work if she can take Flaws.

If Flaws are out, I think the build is pretty straightforward: Least Mark at 1st level, Song of he Heart at 3rd level, Lesser mark at 6th level. Healing hymn, Soothing voice, Bardic Knack. Prc out ASAP.

If she is interested in a melee build, feats like Snowflake Wardance (Cha to melee attack rolls) and Storm's Riposte (immediate action electric charged counter attack) might interest her instead of Inspire Courage stuff.

Mark of Shadow? Ah yeah, the Snowflake Wardance/Storm's riposte is not gonna work either.

Looking at the Dragonmarked Prodigy/Adept/Visionary line, the isn't a whole lot there worth burning a feat on to unlock extra uses of her Mark of Shadow due to their dependence on CL.

Half-elf Paragon does not advance casting very much, but offers some versatility with a bonus feat, ability score increase, and bonuses to perception and social skills. Bard 2/ Rogue 1 (for Spot, Search, Trapfinding, and Sneak Attack)/Half-elf Paragon 2 (If you need the bonus feat or skill bonuses)/ Unseen Seer 1 might be interesting for a Shadowy spy bard, but it loses two CL from the Paragon and Rogue levels.

She has to be an elf. So what then.

[retaliation08]

Well it really depends on what she wants. To my limited knowledge, there are no neat little synergies for Elf Bards in Eberron.

She will have to look at different build paths for bards and pick one.
Something like Rogue1/Bard 4/Unseen Seer X would be just fine for an Elven shadow spy type. Straight Bard is also fine. I think her character will be more defined by skill and spell choices than by feats since a lot of the typical bard optimization routes aren't available.