Positive Executive Meddling

[S@tanicoaldo]

So, everyone hates Executive Meddling, we want artists to be free and allow their wild imagination to go wild and unrestrained.

But6 I'm starting to think that sometimes Executive Meddling can be good, I know they changes dumb things and give silly titles but it can be a positive thing... Sometimes.

Hear me out here think about the end of the Dark phoenix saga, Jean grey's death was a direct order from Jim Shooter againts the wishes of the writer Chris Claremont, and everyone has to agree that her detah made the ending a lot deeper and more interesting.

Or how about Carlo Collodi? If it was'nt for his editor our dear wooden boy would end up dead and the story would be 20 chapters shorter and probrably not as famous.

So do you guys know any other moment where the executive meddling was not such a bad thing?

[DomaDoma]

Just two phrases:

1. Mother knows best.
2. Golfer knows best.

Of course, writer knew best eventually, but it took like sixteen more years than he thought he had in him.

[Darth Ultron]

Star Trek might count. The Pilot ''The Cage'' was rejected and they made ''Where no man has gone before''. The Cage was ''too cerebral'', and they were right that the ''Mom and Pops'' out in TV land. If Star Trek had stuck with the ''cerebral'' stuff, it likely would not have been a hit.

I think ''They'' forced poor Joss Wheaton to have a ''space hooker'' on Firefly...and really is a Great Character.

[comicshorse]

'Dad's Army', a comedy about the British Home guard set in WW2 (for those non-brits). The creators wanted the introduction credits to show actual footage of refugee's fleeing from their homes as the German army advanced. The Executive in charge thought that would be distasteful in a comedy. I'm with the Executive all the way (Though both creators did actually serve in the British army during WW2)


Also 'The Thin Red Line'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Th...ne_(1998_film)

If ever a film needed some executive meddling.......

[Kitten Champion]

The only one I can think of because it was on SF Debris' review, was Star Trek: Insurrection. A studio executive reviewing the script had some pointed concerns about the Baaku and the logic behind the central conceit of the movie, one's that someone writing science fiction should probably care about but the stereotypical studio executives would've ignored.

Of course if you've had the displeasure of seeing Insurrection you know the executive's concerns were ultimately left unaddressed and the creative side got their way. So, it can only be said it made the movie better in retrospect that at least some of the people behind it were cognizant of what was wrong with it.

[Reddish Mage]

The best example I heard was “Alien.” The original had the Alien killing Ripley.. The alternative ending would have replaced Ripley distress call with one being placed by the Captain’s voice, only we’d zoom in and see its really the Alien mimicking him.

The studio wouldn’t let Ridley Scott do it however, because it went against formula. The horror story formula requires there be left alive a “final girl.” The final girl is supposed to suggest there is some hope and someone to tell the story. The studios (very angry) insistence on a tired worn formula is what got us “Aliens” and the idea of Ripley as a badass.

[Kyberwulf]

I am not sure.. but I think they are the reasons we got three lord of the rings movies.

It's hard to know though, when they meddle for good or bad really

[rooster707]

Star Wars, maybe? I mean, we all saw what happens when George Lucas got to do whatever he wanted without any restrictions...

[Keltest]

Star Wars, maybe? I mean, we all saw what happens when George Lucas got to do whatever he wanted without any restrictions...

I'm not sure it counts if the executives are also people who are themselves helping to create the movie beyond just funding it.

[Chromascope3D]

Dragon Ball's Cell Saga was almost entirely created by editorial meddling, and a lot of people (myself included) consider it to be the peak of the series.

[Dienekes]

The Godfather. The original version of the movie was apparently much longer and less visceral. The Studio, pestered Coppola consistently about cutting side plots and adding more action beats. And while Paramount really does come across as a bunch of overbearing asses that were on the verge of firing Coppola throughout the entire process. The original screening was apparently widely disliked, Coppola was given a few weeks to add the action beats and cut out the needless clutter. And he did and ended up making one of the greatest movies of all time.

[shadow_archmagi]

Dragon Ball's Cell Saga was almost entirely created by editorial meddling, and a lot of people (myself included) consider it to be the peak of the series.

Tell me more!

[Prime32]

Dragon Ball's Cell Saga was almost entirely created by editorial meddling, and a lot of people (myself included) consider it to be the peak of the series.

Ah, yes. The Android/Cell Sagas were great because the characters spent so much time being thrown off-balance and having no idea what was going on.

Spoiler

Show

"And so the story ends, with Goku becoming the legendary Super Saiyan and defeating Freeza, the strongest and most evil being in the universe."
"Okay, now write the continuation."
"...I am another Super Saiyan, from the future! Two Androids are coming who are stronger than Freeza!"
"These Androids look stupid"
"Wait, these aren't the Androids?! Oh no, they escaped and released the real Androids, plus a third Android we didn't even know about!"
"You can't have multiple villains at once, especially ones with as little motivation as these guys."
"Why is there another time machine and why is it covered in my blood? Oh God, what is that thing?! We have to protect the Androids from it!"
"This is taking too long. Have him absorb one of the Androids already."
"Behold, my Semi-Perfect form!"
"...I'm going to pretend that character design doesn't exist. Fix it. Right now."
"Hey Vegeta, I bet if I was perfect you couldn't beat me." "You're on."
"Say, when was the last time we had a tournament arc? Shonen audiences like tournament arcs."

[Sapphire Guard]

The thing about positive executive meddling is that we never see the result, so it's hard to tell what becomes good or bad. We now don't get to see Colin Trevorrow's Episode 9, but because it hasn't seen the light of day, there's no way to know if its positive or not.

[Giggling Ghast]

One more infamous example of Positive Meddling was with Kevin Smith's Clerks. As many people know, Smith originally ended the film with Dante being shot in a convenience store robbery. It was perhaps a realistic ending, but it was jarring and didn't fit the tone of the film. Smith's mentors —*not precisely executives, but as close as we're going to get in a low-budget student film — approached him after seeing the first cut and convinced him to change it.

Ah, yes. The Android/Cell Sagas were great because the characters spent so much time being thrown off-balance and having no idea what was going on.

Spoiler

Show

"And so the story ends, with Goku becoming the legendary Super Saiyan and defeating Freeza, the strongest and most evil being in the universe."
"Okay, now write the continuation."
"...I am another Super Saiyan, from the future! Two Androids are coming who are stronger than Freeza!"
"These Androids look stupid"
"Wait, these aren't the Androids?! Oh no, they escaped and released the real Androids, plus a third Android we didn't even know about!"
"You can't have multiple villains at once, especially ones with as little motivation as these guys."
"Why is there another time machine and why is it covered in my blood? Oh God, what is that thing?! We have to protect the Androids from it!"
"This is taking too long. Have him absorb one of the Androids already."
"Behold, my Semi-Perfect form!"
"...I'm going to pretend that character design doesn't exist. Fix it. Right now."
"Hey Vegeta, I bet if I was perfect you couldn't beat me." "You're on."
"Say, when was the last time we had a tournament arc? Shonen audiences like tournament arcs."

Sarcasm aside, a lot of North American fans view Cell as their favourite DBZ villain, not Frieza.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Basically Sam Peckinpah's entire career is defined by Positive Executive Meddling. Unless you like the idea of sitting through 5-6 hour movies.

[Keltest]

Basically Sam Peckinpah's entire career is defined by Positive Executive Meddling. Unless you like the idea of sitting through 5-6 hour movies.

I watch the extended editions of the Lord of the Rings straight through on a fairly regular basis. While I wouldn't watch a 5 hour movie very frequently, it certainly isn't beyond the realm of possibility, as long as its a good 5 hour movie.

[Prime32]

Sarcasm aside, a lot of North American fans view Cell as their favourite DBZ villain, not Frieza.

That wasn't sarcasm. The confusion was good because it made Cell scarier.

[Giggling Ghast]

Another positive example of Executive Meddling was with Army of Darkness. The original ending had Ash sleep too long and wake up in a post-apocalyptic England, but test audiences hated it and the executives wanted a more positive ending. Which is how we got the infinitely quotable theatrical ending.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eyFjcXZP7A

That wasn't sarcasm. The confusion was good because it made Cell scarier.

Oh. No offence intended, but I thought you were mocking the chaotic nature of the Cell saga.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Star Trek The Next Generation: The pilot episode encounter at far point was originally just visiting the station. The Execs wanted a two-hour premier event so The Q-Plot was tacked on.


Executives ask for a younger teenage batman show with the caped crusader still in high school. We got Batman Beyond.


Executive meddling on Kid's Next Door gave us the 2x4 technology rather then traditional looking high tech gadgets.


In the movie Tremors, executives wanted Michael Gross for the role of Burt Gummer... who is now probably more important to the film series then the Graboids.

I can not even begin to go into what was removed from Zootopia by executive meddling.

[Giggling Ghast]

I can not even begin to go into what was removed from Zootopia by executive meddling.

An uncomfortable scene where the bunny and the fox encounter other animals who like to dress in really creepy human costumes and have sex with each other?

[Knaight]

Star Trek The Next Generation: The pilot episode encounter at far point was originally just visiting the station. The Execs wanted a two-hour premier event so The Q-Plot was tacked on.

So they're the ones to blame for Q's existence. Good to know.

[Rogar Demonblud]

An uncomfortable scene where the bunny and the fox encounter other animals who like to dress in really creepy human costumes and have sex with each other?

More like no Judy, slave collars for predators and a generally dystopian view of everything.

[Cikomyr]

So they're the ones to blame for Q's existence. Good to know.

Even if you dislike Q, his plot was 99% of what was good about the pilot. And it aint much.

Star Wars, maybe? I mean, we all saw what happens when George Lucas got to do whatever he wanted without any restrictions...

There is a video about "the magic of editing" Star Wars on YouTube. It explains that it was Spielberg & [someone else] who pointed out to GL that his movie sucked. And it was GL's ex wife who saved the flick by editing scenes around to make them movie just plain better overall.

[Jay R]

The original script for "The City on the Edge of Forever" had Kirk abandoning the Enterprise for her. Might be a good story, but that's not Kirk.

[Ebon_Drake]

David Bowie's record label complained that Ziggy Stardust didn't have a proper lead single on it. So he wrote Starman.

[Metahuman1]

More like no Judy, slave collars for predators and a generally dystopian view of everything.

Ya know, lately, I wouldn't trust Disney to do it, but someone like that doing a kids movie in that vein could be very interesting.

[Rogar Demonblud]

If you want some interesting kids' fare, see if you can find streams of Exo-Squad or Roughneck Chronicles, cartoons from the bygone days of our collective childhoods that dealt with war, death, genocide, famine and other lovely things. Just what you want the kids imbibing with their Cocoa Puffs.

[Reddish Mage]

Star Trek The Next Generation: The pilot episode encounter at far point was originally just visiting the station. The Execs wanted a two-hour premier event so The Q-Plot was tacked on.


Executive meddling on Kid's Next Door gave us the 2x4 technology rather then traditional looking high tech gadgets.

I'm not sure the Q-plot was all that great actually. An encounter at Farpoint (literally some drama at Farpoint station) might have actually worked better for showing how the crew respond to a more traditional obstacle.

I would note that 2x4 technology sounds pretty innovative and creative in an odd-ball left-field sort of way....which makes me seriously doubt that marketing executives would be behind it.

Every other example we have of executive meddling falls into narrow and very conventional sorts of categories of suggestions. There is 1) Sticking to formula 2) bringing in something aimed to appeal to the target demographic 3) add something trendy, faddish, or cliche and 4) hire a star. Ah and the all pervasive 5) censoring potentially offensive material or portrayals.

Those things are literally all i see, including in this thread where the changes are allegedly all positive, including below we they Zootopia was clearly being "Disneyified."

More like no Judy, slave collars for predators and a generally dystopian view of everything.

My understanding was there were no collars except at the "taming ceremony" for predators where they were shock collars. Actually...I think your version might be less riske.

I haven't heard that Judy was an executive invention, or that there was a dystopian feel running throughout (and certainly how they would have written a script that handled that dystopia).

[Drascin]

Oh. No offence intended, but I thought you were mocking the chaotic nature of the Cell saga.

In fairness, Toriyama's chaotic writing is easy to mock. He himself has admitted that often when he writes a chapter he honestly has no idea where he's going or what will happen in the next one. One anecdote was him pointing out the times he turned in a fifteen page chapter and then sat down with the editor in the same room to think up what could happen next.

The fact that Cell Saga ended up being a lot of people's favorite because the writer did not care about a plotline is actually pretty amusing, after all.