Magic The Gathering Thread XXIII: Modern is Dead, Long Live Modern

[Tvtyrant]

On the WPN retailers group (which I also am) its the monthly meme to have someone asking for Commander Masters, Brawl Masters, Pauper Masters, etc. Its always someone with a niche community asking for releases / reprints centered around what the few players they have want, instead of growing the game by getting players who want what already exists.

Experimental products (Conspiracy, Battlebond, etc.) have always tanked and had to be clearanced away. Even the latest batch of masters sets failed, because niche casual communities dont buy product. Thats what could kill the game, shifting focus away of what truly matters to chase 'new players'

Masters didn't die because they were niche, they died because WotC couldn't withstand the temptation to play the secondary market by raising the pack price on playable cards. If they had been priced like standard they would have sold out, but they thought they could gauge out more with each release.

[Gaius Hermicus]

I'm going to prerelease in three days. Anybody got any tips?

I was planning to play some combination of R/B/U (Rakdos if I pull burns, Dimir if I pull counters, Izzet if I draw both.) What cards should I try to draft, and which should I avoid?

(Also is R/G playable in WotS? It's my favorite color.)

[Tvtyrant]

I'm going to prerelease in three days. Anybody got any tips?

I was planning to play some combination of R/B/U (Rakdos if I pull burns, Dimir if I pull counters, Izzet if I draw both.) What cards should I try to draft, and which should I avoid?

(Also is R/G playable in WotS? It's my favorite color.)

I suck at drafting, but green looks amazing with everything. New Horizons combos with almost every strategy; it fixes, ramps, and sets up for proliferate. I have been test drafting and I end up splashing green for it most of the time.

[Ninjaman]

I mean stuff like Brawl and Commander, man.

I'm not sure how casual that's gonna end up being online. The thing that balances the power levels in person is that people roughly agree on a power level, and if your deck is too powerful people won't play with you. This doesn't really happen online.

[LaZodiac]

I'm not sure how casual that's gonna end up being online. The thing that balances the power levels in person is that people roughly agree on a power level, and if your deck is too powerful people won't play with you. This doesn't really happen online.

Truthfully I just want it so I can play it with friends easier than how we typically do it. I wouldn't go into Brawl Cue unless I was bored or there were quests for it.

[tgva8889]

Given the current Arena interface, I'm not sure when multiplayer would be coming to it, and playing Commander would basically be impossible anyways given the lack of old cards. Maybe some different format.

[Spore]

I'm going to prerelease in three days. Anybody got any tips?

Proliferate isn't dangerous as long as the enemy doesn't have 2+ things with counters out. Amass tokens however, ooooh boy, do they switch the power balance, esp. with cards that give them (or zombies, or zombie tokens) keywords.

[Techwarrior]

Anyone have any good ideas for using amass cards on changelings? I keep wanting to look into it, but haven't found the time.

[Boci]

Anyone have any good ideas for using amass cards on changelings? I keep wanting to look into it, but haven't found the time.

I don't think that works. Changelings have every creature type, but they are not tokens, which amas cards specify.

[unseenmage]

I don't think that works. Changelings have every creature type, but they are not tokens, which amas cards specify.

Doesnt Crib Swap create a changeling token?

[Boci]

Doesnt Crib Swap create a changeling token?

Sure, you could amas once and then cribswap that, but I doubt that's what Techwarrior wanted to do with changelings and amass. You could also use spell that make copies of changeling, since copies are tokens, but it seems inconsistent. You need to draw the changelings themselves, the copying cards and enough amass cards to make it worthwhile.

[LaZodiac]

Amass does not require it to be a token. The rules text is (Put X +1/+1 counters on an Army you control. If you don’t control one, create a 0/0 black Zombie Army creature token first.)

If you have a changling out, you'd have to put the counters on the changeling because they would be an army.

There are no changelings where this is advantages in any real capacity, to answer your other question.

[Androgeus]

Amass does not require it to be a token. The rules text is (Put X +1/+1 counters on an Army you control. If you don’t control one, create a 0/0 black Zombie Army creature token first.)

Just to be pedantic, that’s the reminder text. The actual rules for amass puts the check first, not that it makes any difference.

701.43a To amass N means "If you don't control an Army creature, create a 0/0 black Zombie Army creature token. Choose an Army creature you control. Put N +1/+1 counters on that creature."

There are no changelings where this is advantages in any real capacity, to answer your other question.

There might be something in using the fact it allows you to easily control multiple ‘armies’ and can spread the counters (from separate amasses) rather than be forced to go tall. That honestly doesn’t seem that amazing, more just a cute interaction.

[LansXero]

Masters didn't die because they were niche, they died because WotC couldn't withstand the temptation to play the secondary market by raising the pack price on playable cards. If they had been priced like standard they would have sold out, but they thought they could gauge out more with each release.

thats Ultimate, and it sold well enough. What failed were Iconic and 25, which tried to broaden their appeal from Modern-staples into 'fun draft formats' and irrelevant junk nobody wanted to pay a premium for.

The first MM was sold-out really quick, and was already above pack price. The few after were more expensive, but also sold well, because they focused on what matters: being viable for competitive formats (Modern, in this case).

[Eurus]

Yeah, Modern format packs sell just fine when they focus on one thing. It's when they try to do everything at once and still charge a premium that they flop.

Amass is kinda unimpressive to me as a mechanic in any non-limited format. In limited I can totally see the value, but pumping up one big vanilla token in standard is a dubious proposition and making repeated little tokens doesn't seem likely to be that helpful either.

[Tvtyrant]

thats Ultimate, and it sold well enough. What failed were Iconic and 25, which tried to broaden their appeal from Modern-staples into 'fun draft formats' and irrelevant junk nobody wanted to pay a premium for.

The first MM was sold-out really quick, and was already above pack price. The few after were more expensive, but also sold well, because they focused on what matters: being viable for competitive formats (Modern, in this case).

They also gave those the boosted msrp prices, which largely kills the benefits of a draft format. If I was making a draft based format that can't be used in constructed I would want it to be cheaper, not more expensive.

[LansXero]

They also gave those the boosted msrp prices, which largely kills the benefits of a draft format. If I was making a draft based format that can't be used in constructed I would want it to be cheaper, not more expensive.

Both conspiracies were slow movers, and those were amazing draft formats (granted, multiplayer draft isnt for everybody, but still). Unstable draft was great, but without the alt-art lands it would've been dead on release.

But back to my point, requesting more formats for 'innovation' and 'fun' lessens the game. The more experimental junk they release, the more dead overstock is left lying around at distribution, and the further the already damaged value perception of sealed product gets diluted. Even if they are arena-only format, it will lead to the vocal niche fanbase to request support for it, then scoff at actually buying stuff.

[enderlord99]

I'm confused. Are you saying that established, already-popular formats other than Modern (such as Commander) shouldn't be allowed to be played in Arena, or are you only saying that "experimental" ones shouldn't? Because those are very different statements.

[LansXero]

I'm confused. Are you saying that established, already-popular formats other than Modern (such as Commander) shouldn't be allowed to be played in Arena, or are you only saying that "experimental" ones shouldn't? Because those are very different statements.

Commander (or brawl, considering the card pool) is fine; the issue was the idea that more formats = more better. Recently, organized play moved to measuring only standard, sealed and draft for prize support, and store owners are in an uproar to get standard-legal promos for their multiplayer, pauper, legacy, leviathan, etc. communities. They are happy feeding off a small niche and vocally demand material support and recognition for what their players play, instead of doing their job and finding players who want what sells. And in the past, when WotC has caved-in and made the asked experimental product, it has sold poorly, so that shows that people dont put their money where their posts are.

Arena will feed off and feed back into physical from now on, so if a couple of influencers and a loud minority fall in love with a certain arena-only format, WotC will try to cash in on the physical game, and likely fail.

As an example, stores were asked to test run 'speed draft', as in, bo1 draft format, no altering your deck, go. The few suckers who actually did it all came out with the same conclusion those who avoided it did: Its a clownish affair decided by who drew better that leaves no room to drafting in situational answers as you wont be able to alter your deck. It sucked for those involved, and its the fault of those who hyped the arena draft experience. Likewise, mythic invational having a stupid ass format (double elimination bo1 standard no side) and having life points being the decisive factor hurt what was otherwise a really succesful event. If there hadnt been as much backlash and wizards had come out with promos for running it, people would've had a miserable time and blamed their stores.

[LaZodiac]

Yeah, Modern format packs sell just fine when they focus on one thing. It's when they try to do everything at once and still charge a premium that they flop.

Amass is kinda unimpressive to me as a mechanic in any non-limited format. In limited I can totally see the value, but pumping up one big vanilla token in standard is a dubious proposition and making repeated little tokens doesn't seem likely to be that helpful either.

I run Angrath, Captain of Chaos as a one of in my Golgari mid-range deck. The menace plus the "suddenly there is a 4/4 here now" has been powerful enough for me to win multiple games.

The issue with Amass is figuring out when is enough. I imagine splashing red and blue to run Dragon-God and the best Eternals/Amassers would help out a standard mono-black zombie deck pretty well? Remember, the amass enablers care about ALL zombie tokens, not just armies. So don't lean too hard in on the zombie horde.

[enderlord99]

Commander (or brawl, considering the card pool) is fine; the issue was the idea that more formats = more better.

Nobody here has been saying "more formats = more better" so I don't know why you're yelling about it.

[ImperiousLeader]

There might be something in using the fact it allows you to easily control multiple ‘armies’ and can spread the counters (from separate amasses) rather than be forced to go tall. That honestly doesn’t seem that amazing, more just a cute interaction.

It's tricky, because Amass checks for armies first. So you'd need to amass, then play changelings, then amass again. Seems like a lot of effort, not sure the payoff is worth it. It is cute though.

Anyway, off to pre-release, wish me good pulls.

[Androgeus]

It's tricky, because Amass checks for armies first. So you'd need to amass, then play changelings, then amass again. Seems like a lot of effort, not sure the payoff is worth it. It is cute though.

Anyway, off to pre-release, wish me good pulls.

Why do you need to amass before playing changlelings?

[LaZodiac]

Changelings are all creature types so if you have a changeling out, you have an army creature, and all amass spells will buff it. So you play an amass spell to get a zombie army token, then play the changeling, and now effectively have two armies, with which you can place counters upon.

[Androgeus]

Changelings are all creature types so if you have a changeling out, you have an army creature, and all amass spells will buff it. So you play an amass spell to get a zombie army token, then play the changeling, and now effectively have two armies, with which you can place counters upon.

Or just play another changeling?

[LaZodiac]

Or just play another changeling?

I mean yes, that is also an option.

[Marywn]

Damn I don't think i can go to the prerelease... Sad days.

[LaZodiac]

Speaking of pre-release, me and my boyfriend recorded ourselves doing a sealed in MTG Arena, you can find it here. This is only the deck building phase, I'm trying to split these up to make them less obnoxious to watch.

[ImperiousLeader]

I had a dismal sealed pool at prerelease, and couldn't figure out what to play. Ended up building a Jund (black, red, green) and a Blue/White flyers deck out of the same pool. Games were frustrating, and I seemed to be surrounded by people with superior pools (literally, the two guys sitting next to me both opened Liliana). Despite that, I like the format. Planeswalkers are fun, and the lower rarity ones are still impressive. Removal is powerful, the set just feels powerful. Even though I got smashed, I wanna play again.

[Shadow of the Sun]

No prerelease for me because I have work.

Fair trade, I'd say.