Erfworld 75, page 69

[Jasdoif]

...Ok.

You do realise that I now have to pick up a copy of the first decade, just after i'd finally persuaded myself that the early C&C games were outdated and not worth buying, install it. Just to watch that intro.

Damn you Zelig! Damn YOU!

If you're willing to overlook the video, you can listen to the music for almost all the C&C games without charge at the artist's site. Red Alert's intro track is named "Hell March", for those unaware.

If I'm understanding the situation correctly, Ansom believed his troops would be sufficient to defend themselves against the B-dwagons' assault on the next turn, or at least go out in a blaze of glory while wiping out most of them. However, that plan depended on first wiping out all the wounded A-dwagons.

But if the A-dwagons were not found and eliminated, on the next turn Ansom would find himself stomped upon by the B-dwagons and the now fully-restored A-dwagons all at the same time. That's a big hurt that he knows he can't survive.

Another thing is that Parson's priority is the siege units. Without siege units, Ansom's army has to go toe-to-toe (or bow-to-bow) with Stanley's gobwins, uncroaked, etc.; and being in the fortified location Stanley has the advantage.

This all changes if Ansom has siege that can decimate the Stanley's infantry from afar, or get his own troops past the city walls entirely. The A and B dwagon groups are based on their move rate; the B dwagons likely can't hit the remaining siege and make their way back to go after Ansom, nor is really wise to take out Ansom and then send any survivors after the siege.

So if the A-dwagons get croaked, Parson's best chance to save GK is sending the B-dwagons after the siege, leaving Ansom alone.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

That's assuming the spell is still in effect. My interpretation is that it isn't (because what we've seen is exactly the scenario -- "...'ignore enemy forces' may be too hard for her to rationalize..." -- Sizemore worried about a few page ago). There may be, and probably are, remaining effects from the mundane psychological components of Wanda's campaign of establishing control, but those are exactly the sorts of things Jillian is used to shoving to the back of her mind by immersing herself in combat.

Sizemore's bit is there to sow the seeds of doubt and build tension.

Jill didn't ignore troops, she- found a loophole that maintains the status quo. By showing the wounded, she shows she is not ashamed of her actions. By declaring her motivations she explains that she is not a defector, but rather than thinking in terms of our side must prevail against theirs, she is only interested first in keeping Ansom intact (hence ignoring the wounded hex in order to back up Ansom) and spiting Stanley second (attacking the dragon fort and ruining the trap). All her actions up to this point back these claims.

[Furin]

@ Jasdoif and Moral Wiz
a little bit off topic but for the "Red Alert" intro check Utube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvdJdthIFoU) and for remixes of Hellmarch check http://www.ocremix.org/remixer/djpretzel/ http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00492/

[galdon]

Umm... Parson hasn't lost any warlords and he's lost 6 dwagons thats closer to twelve percent of them not somewhere around half. Plus we were told that Ansom lost 40% of the siege not that the has 40% left.

well, that just makes it even worse, and the way the comics are showing, he's going to lose that whole hex, warlords included, so he loses his 27 A dwagons and 3 B dwagons, along with 3 of his warlords

[Hadrian_Emrys]

As an extra little something for the conversation, Jill is the happy sub in a BDSM relationship. For those of you with no experience with such things, that means that even without magic, she will NOT disobey her dom unless requested to do something that grossly violates her sensibilities. Her conflict in past strips has come from not knowing how to keep this double life going without messing things up in either one. Using this sort of subject matter in the manner that it is being portrayed impresses me in no small amount. Such relationship dynamics are usually brought up with humorous and/or ignorantly slanderous intent.

[Arkenputtyknife]

You keep on saying "These theories are rediculous" and similar statements. Can you please justify that? Cos I've taken a lot of care to ensure my theories fit the facts and don't streatch them. So said theories simply being dismissed as "rediculous" annoys me.

I think I already have, to some extent. I really don't have the time or interest to do a thorough breakdown (I was neither joking nor being sarcastic when I said it would take five hours, which is probably an underestimate), but I can try to give a brief idea of why my alarm bells are all going off.

Essentially, we're shown (a) Jillian traveling to the lake, finding the wounded dwagons, having a personal crisis, and sending a thinkagram; and (b) Archons trashing some dwagons. The argument is over whether the three croaked dwagons are over the lake or in the forest. Rob and Jamie have given us no explicit indication whatsoever that Jillian and co had moved between (a) and (b), and I find it hard to believe that it was their intent to confuse us over this issue. (We've confused ourselves; they didn't have to do anything!)

All the evidence I've seen in favor of the forest dwagons being trashed are creative interpretation (“let me through to the warlord”), the absence of information (the apparent lack of pre-existing damage on a dwagon that's being torn to pieces, the fact that the ground/water is not shown in any of the scenes), and so forth. Individually, none of these points would be worth anything. Cumulatively? No, they don't add up to anything, either, because each and every one of them is at best an arguable point.

The skeptics have a strongly-held principle: “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” It's a very good principle, as it helps us to keep our heads on our shoulders and not give in to every flight of fancy that comes our way. What we have here is an extraordinary claim: that Rob and Jamie are deliberately withholding large amounts of information to disguise the claimed fact that the dwagons being slain are in the forest, not over the lake as the story so far seems to indicate. The flipside of the principle is that when extraordinary evidence is forthcoming, we have to take our hits and admit to being wrong. In this case, the evidence being raised in support of this claim doesn't even qualify as ordinary, let alone extraordinary.

I think my belief that the theories are ridiculous (note spelling) is justified. And if that statement of my belief annoys people, then we're even, because these theories exasperate me.

The Blondlot incident is instructive. Blondlot fell into a classic type of observational error: unwittingly emphasising observations that agreed with his notions. Nature magazine sent Wood to investigate not because they had disproved his theory, but because they smelled a rat, and Wood showed (by simple empiricism, not argument) that the rat was all too smelly. The ability to find the rat in your own work, before anyone else points it out, is one of the things that distinguishes the Feynmans from the Blondlots.

Do you mean next strip?

I hope so. I'm looking forward to a Situation Room scene that'll make Jerry Springer look like a Victorian tea party.

[H-Bar]

I want to bring up a possibility nobody has mentioned yet: Jillian is planning a coup.

On page 50 we see that the chain of command is apparently based on level. On page 65 Jillian says that the already high-powered archons will level from merely taking out their share of the 6 unwounded B dwagons in the front of the fort. Presumably Jillian would gain quite a bit of experience too.

How many levels is Ansom above Jillian? It might be just one or even zero. What happens if Jillian surpasses him?

Here's what could be happening in today's strip: Jillian and the archons are taking out several hexes of the unwounded B dwagons. As most posters have already pointed out, the dwagons they're fighting look conspicuously fresh. "Weak stack first", "open up the front door": they're starting with one of the 4-dwagon hexes, and slaughtering an entire semicircle of the fort up to the front.

The part that's been causing everyone the most trouble is "Let me at the warlord". If she's referring to Ansom, why didn't she say Prince? It might be because she already considers him demoted.

But is it possible for Jillian and the archons to survive these fights? Parson's gadget said they only had a 61% chance of annihilating 19 heavily wounded A-dwagons. Wouldn't 15 completely fresh B-dwagons be at least as hard if not much more?

There are a few reasons to think it might be possible. If experience is decided at the end of each battle, they might all level before the last hex. I don't know how much that shifts the odds, but it's a point in their favor. None of the fort hexes have a full 8-unit stack bonus. None of the fort hexes have a warlord bonus, while the wounded hex has three. And Parson's gadget might be working with unknown variables. Many have already suggested that the archons' power is based on how much they're paid. The gadget has no way of knowing this amount, but we the readers know it must be on the high end.

There are a few more reasons to suspect a coup. There's Vinny's foreshadowing that he and Ansom are going to be out of the big picture soon. There's Jillian's openly contemptuous tone in the thinkagram: she's free to say what she really thinks if she doesn't expect to serve under him any more. And it's a way for her to keep fighting without hurting either Ansom or Wanda: She could just exile Ansom and his close circle somewhere away from the fight, and as the head of the invasion force she can make sure that no harm will come to Wanda if they capture the Knob.

If this happens, it's going to set up some really interesting dynamics. Where will Wanda's loyalties lie? Will Jetstone's alliance fracture? How's Parson going to react? The invasion basically becomes Jillian vs. Stanley, with everyone else caught in the middle.

[Eva]

Imho, it's all in her last words -- she'll see Ansom after she croaks SOME dwagons.

She won't croak them all. Just some.

[Wadoka]

Imho, it's all in her last words -- she'll see Ansom after she croaks SOME dwagons.

To expand, I think that we may have failed to consider whether or not Jillian intends to survive this encounter.

Spoiler

Show

To me, her thinkagram to Ansom was classically hallmarked as a "Hey. I love you. I just thought you should know. Goodbye" message.

Short confession of sins, short and very heartrending and poignant expression of love, and then a platitude of future hope from eyes that have no hope in them.

Yep, it's all there.

"Goodbye, my sweet Prince. I'll see you in Valhalla" sort of thing.

[ag30476]

Sizemore's bit is there to sow the seeds of doubt and build tension.

Jill didn't ignore troops, she- <snipped text in white>

Your guess of a half-way measure by Jillian is interesting but is it really possible for her to cripple Parson's offensive ability for the next turn without inflicting terrible losses to the dwagons and warlords?

And if she only does part of a job, then won't she show herself to be compromised? That is, if Jillian can make her own decisions as to which of the enemy to attack and when, then can the coalition afford to have her around at all?

We'll have to wait and see.

[factotum]

I want to bring up a possibility nobody has mentioned yet: Jillian is planning a coup.

So, you're saying that she's going to help out someone she hates (Stanley) by killing off someone she loves (Ansom)? Can't help but feel you're maybe reaching a tiny bit there. Also, the Archons are being paid for by Jetstone, so acting directly against the representative of that tribe might be considered to be slightly outside their operational parameters...

[H-Bar]

Read the entire post. I didn't say she would kill him. Just take control of his army.

And she wouldn't be helping Stanley. If she takes control I expect the siege to continue, although in a much more chaotic state.

I'll admit I have no idea about the rules of command. But the archons were paid to support Jetstone, not Ansom personally. If Jillian becomes the legitimate leader of the siege by Jetstone's own rules, it's not their problem.

[Aris Katsaris]

Once again: Rocky lost.

Well, he certainly didn't win in Rocky 1, and he certainly lost in Rocky 3.

I suppose you've completely overlooked the fact that he's facing a force 4 times larger than would normally be required to take the best defended city in the world, coupled with an irate Overlord practically incapable of dealing with defeat, who already doubts Parson's ability.

Yes, those are several of the ways in which the comic set up the readers to expect Parson to win.

A loss on his first move isn't interesting; it's a suicide note.

And since when are suicide notes by definition not interesting?

If Stanley's dwagons are slaughtered (and losing 22 of his 43 is a slaughter), I find it absolutely inconceivable that Parson would survive.

Oh, shall I start quoting Princess Bride to you? That word doesn't mean what you think it to mean.

Introducing a new element to fix pre-established problem

Since nobody introduced a new element, all you're doing is making rude assumptions and blaming the authors for developments in the comic that have not been made yet.

And I'm done discussing your rude assumptions of other people's incompetence. If the writers prove themselves incompetent I'd rather you attack them for it *after* they've proven to be so, not because you lack the imagination to see how they could continue the story in a proper manner.

Personally, I'm not interested in author fiat.

I'm utterly uninterested in your arrogant assumptions about how the comic will develop. Do you have anything about the comic AS HAS BEEN WRITTEN to criticize, rather than about your own fictional versions of future strips?

Then we can focus on Ansom and his crew, who have finally been defeated and must re-examine their tactics, their assumptions, and their politics, and have them introduce new tactics to counter the "Perfect Warlord" and evolve the conflict into something different altogether.

So basically the one and only way that this comic would have been acceptable for you, would have been if it proceeded exactly as you imagined it to proceed, never surprising you at all.

Parson has not been established as actually being a "Perfect Warlord".

No, he wasn't established as such. The comic simply set us up to expect him to be such.

[ag30476]

Imho, it's all in her last words -- she'll see Ansom after she croaks SOME dwagons.

She won't croak them all. Just some.

The same questions I posted for Hadrian_Emrys apply to you, namely

1) Your guess of a half-way measure by Jillian is interesting but is it really possible for her to cripple Parson's offensive ability for the next turn without inflicting terrible losses to the dwagons and warlords?

2) And if she only does part of a job, then won't she show herself to be compromised? That is, if Jillian can make her own decisions as to which of the enemy to attack and when, then can the coalition afford to have her around at all?

[Scientivore]

You have to admit, that would be an awesome April 1 strip.

If they publish it sometime around September 4, 2007, then sure.

[Krellen]

And I'm done discussing your rude assumptions of other people's incompetence.

I've made no such assumptions. Nor do I think I'm the one being particularly rude here. The only assumption I've made is that it looks like Rob is trying to subvert tropes here. I simply think that's generally a bad idea.

Since you brought up the Princess Bride, let me go with that - because we need to look at a scene other than "Inconceivable" here. What we're dealing with right now is basically the same scenario as the castle attack: "Your sword, his strength and my brain against sixty men? Impossible. If I had a month to plan, I might come up with something."

Parson's the Man in Black here; he's got virtually no assets except for his brain, Stanley's dwagons, and the most defensible city in the world. He is, nevertheless, facing overwhelming odds - worse than the twenty-to-one they faced in the Princess Bride, in fact. And despite coming up with a plan to possibly even the odds (eliminate the siege, force the attackers to come through the tunnels), what we're looking at now is forty of the sixty men facing down the burning giant Dread Pirate Roberts rather than fleeing to a man. And for me, that's simply not an interesting plot twist. There's a reason we expect things out of stories - tropes aren't bad. They're tropes because they work.

And another thing; there would be no "suspense" in this in book form. The reason it's suspenseful is because it's being posted a single page at a time, with about a week between pages. If we had new pages tomorrow - or a new page in thirty seconds, as we would in a book - there wouldn't be any "suspense" in "She's over the lake! She's one hex away!" It would, instead, simply be "Why the heck are the dwagons between her and Ansom instead of some place more sensible?"

I don't see any set-up for Parson as a "Perfect Warlord" here. So far, he's made one canny move, and several colossal mistakes.

[SteveMB]

As an extra little something for the conversation, Jill is the happy sub in a BDSM relationship.

"Happy" seems like an odd description, given the strong element of exploitation involved, but it depends on how Jillian perceives things. It seems to me that she's been good at avoiding things she'd rather not think about, but sometimes that just doesn't work (e.g. her breakdown at the dawn "reset" may be not only realization of how much she'd given up, but how much she'd enjoyed it at the time).

To expand, I think that we may have failed to consider whether or not Jillian intends to survive this encounter.

Spoiler

Show

To me, her thinkagram to Ansom was classically hallmarked as a "Hey. I love you. I just thought you should know. Goodbye" message.

Short confession of sins, short and very heartrending and poignant expression of love, and then a platitude of future hope from eyes that have no hope in them.

Yep, it's all there.

"Goodbye, my sweet Prince. I'll see you in Valhalla" sort of thing.

While I don't buy the literal "suicide note" theory, I think there's something to it on a symbolic level -- Jillian has confessed her love to Ansom and outed herself to him as a royal, which probably means that she's throwing away her current life as a free-agent mercenary.

[Lamech]

2) And if she only does part of a job, then won't she show herself to be compromised? That is, if Jillian can make her own decisions as to which of the enemy to attack and when, then can the coalition afford to have her around at all?

Isn't she a mercenary I would assume there is something in her contract about sending her on missions that would most likely result in her death. A 61% chance of victory doesn't mean overwhelming odds, even if Jillian wins there is a decent chance that she would die in the battle. Since Jillian isn't a mathamancer and niether is Vinny or Ansom she could claim that trying to wipe out the dwagons had to high of a chance in resulting in her death. If Jillian only wants to kill some of the dwagons she could and she would have an excuse.
(I'm not claiming that Jillian will do this or even is likely to try this, only that she could.)

1) Your guess of a half-way measure by Jillian is interesting but is it really possible for her to cripple Parson's offensive ability for the next turn without inflicting terrible losses to the dwagons and warlords?

I don't think so, to cripple Parson she needs to kill all the warlords which I think would mean killing all most all of the dwagons. Though right now it seems that Jillian was worried about saving Ansom. Also how much detail was Jillian given? If she was just told "there are dwagons with only a few hits left that need to be croaked" she wouldn't know what Parson did or what exactly needs to be done to stop Parson.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

The same questions I posted for Hadrian_Emrys apply to you, namely

1) Your guess of a half-way measure by Jillian is interesting but is it really possible for her to cripple Parson's offensive ability for the next turn without inflicting terrible losses to the dwagons and warlords?

2) And if she only does part of a job, then won't she show herself to be compromised? That is, if Jillian can make her own decisions as to which of the enemy to attack and when, then can the coalition afford to have her around at all?

1) Yes. By reinforcing Ansom's hex, she effectively throws a monkey wrench in the ambush. Furthermore, the presence of that entire hex of forest mobile forces (including the three hero types and the bloody archons) weakens the core hit and run plan since every round they keep it up, it'll be a battle of attrition in which they lose more and more dwagons. The losses are to great to make it a viable scheme anymore. She'd accomplish that goal with the minimum amount of dwagon death and still spite Stanley.

2) She's too powerful an asset. Sure she may not take orders like a good machine, but she doesn't kill allies yet seems to always find foes to slay. The enemy of thy enemy, while perhaps not your friend, fills the role well enough in a fight. She'll do her own thing so long as it protects Ansom and spites Stanley. That's good enough when Ansom is the head o the alliance and Stanley needs to be brought low.

[SmartAlec]

The presence of that entire hex of forest mobile forces (including the three hero types and the bloody archons) weakens the core hit and run plan since every round they keep it up, it'll be a battle of attrition in which they lose more and more dwagons.

Parson only needs to keep it up for one more turn. And according to his plan, he could do it in one turn and STILL have enough movement to get all Dwagons back to his capital.

Reinforcing Ansom makes taking Ansom more difficult, but doesn't do anything to derail Parson's original objective.

This is why it's so important for Jillian to kill those wounded Dwagons NOW. Next turn, they won't be within range at all.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

That's the trick, as far as any of the allied forces are aware, this whole thing was a giant trap to off Ansom.

[ag30476]

1) Yes. By reinforcing Ansom's hex, she effectively throws a monkey wrench in the ambush. Furthermore, the presence of that entire hex of forest mobile forces (including the three hero types and the bloody archons) weakens the core hit and run plan since every round they keep it up, it'll be a battle of attrition in which they lose more and more dwagons. The losses are to great to make it a viable scheme anymore. She'd accomplish that goal with the minimum amount of dwagon death and still spite Stanley.

Tricky trick that. But reinforcing Ansom's hex is moot. Parson himself was not keen on the idea of attacking the forest hex. And if the 3 warlords survive then, the hit and run on the seige can continue. She has to exactly kill 3 warlords and not too many dwagons. It seems that she'll at least need to kill 9 dwagons. With the 3 Ansom killed, that makes 12.

2) She's too powerful an asset. Sure she may not take orders like a good machine, but she doesn't kill allies yet seems to always find foes to slay.

Until this point her killing of foes has been compromised in the minds of coalition warlords by her repeated captures.

The enemy of thy enemy, while perhaps not your friend, fills the role well enough in a fight. She'll do her own thing so long as it protects Ansom and spites Stanley. That's good enough when Ansom is the head o the alliance and Stanley needs to be brought low.

It's not good enough if she will act so as not to let the coalition win. If she survives as do the Archons after killing only a few dwagons and the 3 warlords, then Ansom will know that, at her whim, Jillian blew a chance to deal a sever blow to Stanley. He will also know that, at her whim, she weakened her forces by ditching Webinar. Lastly, he'll know that she is under the influence of Wanda and likes it.

Whether he wants to or not, in such a circumstance, he may have to disband her.

[ag30476]

Isn't she a mercenary I would assume there is something in her contract about sending her on missions that would most likely result in her death. A 61% chance of victory doesn't mean overwhelming odds, even if Jillian wins there is a decent chance that she would die in the battle. Since Jillian isn't a mathamancer and niether is Vinny or Ansom she could claim that trying to wipe out the dwagons had to high of a chance in resulting in her death. If Jillian only wants to kill some of the dwagons she could and she would have an excuse.
(I'm not claiming that Jillian will do this or even is likely to try this, only that she could.)

Yes. I think she could get out with that excuse except for the Archons and Webinar. The Archons will know if she could have continued fighting. She can't just pick a moment to disengage without reason if the Archons survive. Then there's her self-setup. Under the compulsion spell she ditched 2 warlords who could have helped the fight and in then thinkogram she gives the speech about fighting for the big ideals...love and hate. She can't just disengage without reason and tell Ansom she did that out of love for Ansom and hate for Stanley.

I don't think so, to cripple Parson she needs to kill all the warlords which I think would mean killing all most all of the dwagons. Though right now it seems that Jillian was worried about saving Ansom.

Agreed

Also how much detail was Jillian given? If she was just told "there are dwagons with only a few hits left that need to be croaked" she wouldn't know what Parson did or what exactly needs to be done to stop Parson.

She was given enough info that she argued the purpose of the hunt with the Archons, who rationally disagreed with her assumptions. Upon finding the dwagons, the Archon argued for an all out assault against them. If mere mercernaries can see the value in attacking the dwagons, how can Jillian, wo is not a mere mercernaries, argue otherwise in front of Ansom?

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Tricky trick that. But reinforcing Ansom's hex is moot. Parson himself was not keen on the idea of attacking the forest hex. And if the 3 warlords survive then, the hit and run on the seige can continue. She has to exactly kill 3 warlords and not too many dwagons. It seems that she'll at least need to kill 9 dwagons. With the 3 Ansom killed, that makes 12.


Until this point her killing of foes has been compromised in the minds of coalition warlords by her repeated captures.


It's not good enough if she will act so as not to let the coalition win. If she survives as do the Archons after killing only a few dwagons and the 3 warlords, then Ansom will know that, at her whim, Jillian blew a chance to deal a sever blow to Stanley. He will also know that, at her whim, she weakened her forces by ditching Webinar. Lastly, he'll know that she is under the influence of Wanda and likes it.

Whether he wants to or not, in such a circumstance, he may have to disband her.

1) Again (as far as she knows) while attacking the siege is productive unto itself, it appears to the allied forces that it was but the setup for a trap that Ansom sprung. She doesn't know Parson's mind, nor his plan. The only way I can see her turning on Wanda and attacking the stack (from a writer's perspective) is if the story intends to pull a role switch between Wanda and Sizemore to change roles, or if his studies and her gift are to compliment each other. But if she were gifted in using all spells, why would she not know about how they work? It's muddled. She's treading upon a very thin line in terms of flexing orders from both sides of this conflict.

2) The fallout of that has yet to be fully revealed. I'm guessing the course of the story will roll with it.

3) This point is a matter of serious contention. The only real sway to have it settled is to wait and see what happens over the course of the next few strips.

[ag30476]

The only assumption I've made is that it looks like Rob is trying to subvert tropes here. I simply think that's generally a bad idea.

But they've done that since day 1 with Jillain BDSM barbarian princess the would be hero instead on knight in shining armor Ansom. Then that was further subverted by making Jillian compromised and setting up Ansom as a tragic hero (a good leader who's weakness is his love for the comorimised Jillian). And now they are again subverting that trope by seemingly making Jillian again the barbarian princess I am woman hear me roar.

And another thing; there would be no "suspense" in this in book form. The reason it's suspenseful is because it's being posted a single page at a time, with about a week between pages.

I think there would be suspense similar to the way there is suspense in published comics between frames. It's just that in a webcomic, the forums bring the suspense to a more conscious, overl-analyzed level.

If we had new pages tomorrow - or a new page in thirty seconds, as we would in a book - there wouldn't be any "suspense" in "She's over the lake! She's one hex away!" It would, instead, simply be "Why the heck are the dwagons between her and Ansom instead of some place more sensible?"

In the printed comic such SoD questions would be fewer since the pacing is faster. Though they're be some edits/additions to get to printed form, I don't think they'll be many or significant IMHO.

I don't see any set-up for Parson as a "Perfect Warlord" here. So far, he's made one canny move, and several colossal mistakes.

It doesn't need set up other than the conditions of the spell. We'll believe it if we see it because...well because we were told he was the "Perfect Warlord".

That's why from a meta-story POV, the outcome now is more critical to the character of Parson than to any other character. If Jillian wins and Ansom wins, then Parson looses. Yes it is only one battle, and it's his first battle, and Wanda this is all you fault! But his status as the "Perfect Warlord" is seriously in doubt. If were going to look for other stories for clues, then look to Narnia or Thomas Covenant or even HP. No matter how much the "savior" "looses", it's made clear that the "savior" is of utmost importance.

[ag30476]

1) Again (as far as she knows) while attacking the siege is productive unto itself, it appears to the allied forces that it was but the setup for a trap that Ansom sprung.

Minor nitpick...we don't know that she knows that. We know she was ordered to hunt for the dwagons. We know she thought the hunt was a bad idea while the Archons thought it was not necessarily a bad idea. We know the Archons see the value in a full attack on the wounded dwagons.

The only way I can see her turning on Wanda and attacking the stack (from a writer's perspective) is if the story intends to pull a role switch between Wanda and Sizemore to change roles, or if his studies and her gift are to compliment each other. But if she were gifted in using all spells, why would she not know about how they work? It's muddled. She's treading upon a very thin line in terms of flexing orders from both sides of this conflict.

2) The fallout of that has yet to be fully revealed. I'm guessing the course of the story will roll with it.

3) This point is a matter of serious contention. The only real sway to have it settled is to wait and see what happens over the course of the next few strips.

There are some who believe she has turned on Wanda. And you're out is only one of many. The thing is we are all, as readers, flat-footed here because of Jillians inherent conflict which let to inaction and now her seeming turn around. So we can be surprised in many ways yet we are compelled to speculate...and we like it. I just don't see IMHO, the half-way solution as a good option. As for my out, I haven't been able to come up with a good one but check here for some way too obvious possibilities.

[Eva]

It's not good enough if she will act so as not to let the coalition win. If she survives as do the Archons after killing only a few dwagons and the 3 warlords, then Ansom will know that, at her whim, Jillian blew a chance to deal a sever blow to Stanley. He will also know that, at her whim, she weakened her forces by ditching Webinar. Lastly, he'll know that she is under the influence of Wanda and likes it.

Whether he wants to or not, in such a circumstance, he may have to disband her.

Tough, she already told him point-blank that she would do as she wished and she's a barbarian and he'll just have to accept that.

If he doesn't, he doesn't, but that makes no difference as to what she is.

She would agree with all this that she'll act on her own desires, point-blank, and already said it....

[Eten]

I think the dragons are going to be wiped out, but I still think there will be a cost for Jetstone and it's characters. I still predict Jillian/Ansom/Vinnie to die and the remaining characters will have to deal with that.

Also, I think Parson's "turn-based warfare is so stupid!" concept to evolve, partly from continual loses due to the mechanics.

[ag30476]

Tough, she already told him point-blank that she would do as she wished and she's a barbarian and he'll just have to accept that.

If he doesn't, he doesn't, but that makes no difference as to what she is.

She would agree with all this that she'll act on her own desires, point-blank, and already said it....

That's perhaps why Ansom loves her but as the commanding officer of the war coalition, it's not an answer that cuts it IMHO. He doesn't just have to deal with Jillian but with the other warlords and chiefs including the soft-spoken doubt of Vinnie and the not so quiet accusations of Webinar ... and eventually the Jetstone Overlord.

[teratorn]

To expand, I think that we may have failed to consider whether or not Jillian intends to survive this encounter.

Spoiler

Show

To me, her thinkagram to Ansom was classically hallmarked as a "Hey. I love you. I just thought you should know. Goodbye" message.

Short confession of sins, short and very heartrending and poignant expression of love, and then a platitude of future hope from eyes that have no hope in them.

Yep, it's all there.

"Goodbye, my sweet Prince. I'll see you in Valhalla" sort of thing.

She ends with "I'll see you after I croak some dwagons". She plans to survive.

My guess from Jillian's words in erf75 is that an archon would have trouble finishing a warlord, it's her job. Parson controls the uncroaked, so he can direct the fight. I wouldn't go for the gwiffons, I'd go always for the same archon. It's possible that an attack by several dwagons (one or two plus one with a warlord) could finish an archon. If Parson could concentrate his return strike in a way to finish an archon for each stack wiped out, then maybe the last remaining archon could be tempted to flee leaving Jillian alone against the last dwagon stack.

With one surviving warlord and a few A dwagons, then next turn Parson could make a dwagon bridge to bring two more warlords from GK and then finish siege with the B dwagons.