most op race

[Amdy_vill]

what is the most op race. i think it is probably the trox or drider. lets include alternative race traits for fun

[grarrrg]

what is the most op race. i think it is probably the trox or drider. lets include alternative race traits for fun

Ummm. Yeah.
I hope they'd be among the 'most powerful', seeing as how going by Race Points they're both around ~30 RP, whereas most of the 'typical' races hover around the 10 RP mark. And there are suggested rules to (effectively) include LA when there is a sizable RP gap between party members.
(obligatory "yes I know RP are considered to not be well priced, but we can most likely agree that regardless of actual bonuses, a 30 RP will beat the snot out of a 10 RP the vast majority of the time").

Also, considering there are rules for using any random monster for your 'race', Trox and Drider wouldn't even be close to the top ten.


You question might better be served if it was "most powerful typical player race" or some other such parameters added.

[Kurald Galain]

Aasimar, hands down. They're also flexible enough they can fit pretty much every class in the game.

[Psyren]

...Pre-nerf Half-Elf?

Seconding everything grarrrg said.

[Topaz]

I don't know if it's the "most OP", but I got a lot of mileage out of a Samsaran Arcanist with Mystic Past Life. Even without going for the cheese of the Summoner spell list, adding a bunch of Bard spells to his list was pretty useful.

[Mechalich]

Power ultimately comes down to class. Therefore, the most powerful race is the one that most effectively enhances the most powerful classes. The most powerful classes are all full casters (Tier I), so the most powerful race is the one that allows you to squeeze the most out of the largest number of full caster setups.

There's an argument for Samsaran, because they have bonuses to the key ability scores and mystic past life allows you to snag a handful of potentially very good spells for a different class. They do have a Con penalty though. By contrast, Trox are actually really weak, since they have a penalty to all of the casting stats. The entire Trox race spends their existence as high-strength slaves of something with actual power.

[RFLS]

Of the races generally available to players, the two big ones have been touched on - aasimar and samsaran. Third place would probably go to Tiefling, for much the same reasons as aasimar.

[Cyrocloud]

I'm gonna say the bonus feat from humans gives them an honorable mention, and sacred tatoo half-orcs can pull some minor shenanigans sacred tatoo and toothy. But again it's class dependant.

So top 3 are probably Aasmir, Human and Tiefling, assuming all different breeds of Aasmir and Tiefling fall under the umbrella of one race. I would add Samsaran to that for most mid-casting+ classes, skinwalker to natural attack builds, and Gathlain for kineticist.

[Florian]

The humble Fetchling and their racial SLAs. No matter what class or build, you can get access to some of the most powerful tactical combat feats in the game.

[Kurald Galain]

I'm gonna say the bonus feat from humans gives them an honorable mention, and sacred tatoo half-orcs can pull some minor shenanigans sacred tatoo and toothy.

Not really, though.

At level one, having two feats instead of one is certainly great. At level seven, having five feats instead of four is not all that impressive (and many classes get bonus feats). At level eleven, having nine-ish feats instead of eight-ish is just not something anyone cares about. So while humans aren't bad at all, they clearly aren't OP.

Toothy is available via the adopted trait, so that doesn't do anything for half-orcs. Then the only special thing they have is +1 to all saves via a trait that should probably be banned (i.e. fate's favored)? Yeah, half-orcs are nowhere near OP either, although that trait arguably is.

[dude123nice]

Not really, though.

At level one, having two feats instead of one is certainly great. At level seven, having five feats instead of four is not all that impressive (and many classes get bonus feats). At level eleven, having nine-ish feats instead of eight-ish is just not something anyone cares about. So while humans aren't bad at all, they clearly aren't OP.

Toothy is available via the adopted trait, so that doesn't do anything for half-orcs. Then the only special thing they have is +1 to all saves via a trait that should probably be banned (i.e. fate's favored)? Yeah, half-orcs are nowhere near OP either, although that trait arguably is.

You can't just deny the value of half-orcs because that trait "should be banned". By that same logic Aasimar should be banned as a whole and not a proper answer. We are not talking about what should be, we are talking about what is. And as such half-orcs can get up to a +2 luck to all saves if they take Sacred Tattoo and Fate's Favored Faith Trait which makes them a pretty good race.

[upho]

what is the most op race. i think it is probably the trox or drider. lets include alternative race traits for fun

As Mechalich touched upon, I also have a really hard time imagining a trox being OP in any party with reasonably built and played full casters. Even if hardcore optimizing its mostly grappling related advantages (Str, size, burrow speed/tremorsense and grabbing appendages). I mean, it doesn't even gain an increased reach, which is typically the far most powerful feature of a Large+ size. Most of the drider's expensive traits suffer from the same issues, but it can at least become effective as say a damage focused melee cleric or oracle, largely thanks to its great stats, size and the "may use weapons and armor as if the weapons and armor were Medium-sized (instead of Large)".

I hope they'd be among the 'most powerful', seeing as how going by Race Points they're both around ~30 RP, whereas most of the 'typical' races hover around the 10 RP mark. And there are suggested rules to (effectively) include LA when there is a sizable RP gap between party members.
(obligatory "yes I know RP are considered to not be well priced, but we can most likely agree that regardless of actual bonuses, a 30 RP will beat the snot out of a 10 RP the vast majority of the time").

Certainly during earlier levels, but not so much later on, generally speaking. This is simply because the published races with the highest RP (not including the now extinct drow noble) "waste" a ton of RPs on melee related stuff which often have relatively mediocre synergy, both with themselves and with the features of the classes those traits are most mechanically suited for. As an example, the 20 RP kashata or 23 RP ogre can likely become more powerful full bab melee combatants than the 35 RP drider. In addition, the high RP races generally come without FCBs or any other racial options of value.

You question might better be served if it was "most powerful typical player race" or some other such parameters added.

This. And I feel the answers aren't going to say much about the races themselves without also including different purposes/builds, or at the very least "most OP caster" and "most OP non-caster".

At level one, having two feats instead of one is certainly great. At level seven, having five feats instead of four is not all that impressive (and many classes get bonus feats). At level eleven, having nine-ish feats instead of eight-ish is just not something anyone cares about. So while humans aren't bad at all, they clearly aren't OP.

And this. The only way humans could possibly be considered OP is if only looking at suitability for certain strong classes (sorcerer), or maybe in terms of them probably being at least decent for a greater number of classes than any other race, if viewing the aasimar and tiefling variants as their own races. Which again, doesn't say very much about how powerful humans are in general.

Toothy is available via the adopted trait, so that doesn't do anything for half-orcs. Then the only special thing they have is +1 to all saves via a trait that should probably be banned (i.e. fate's favored)? Yeah, half-orcs are nowhere near OP either, although that trait arguably is.

Yep. (Although the Sacred Tattoo ART grants +1 to saves all by itself, no trait needed. The OP Fate's Favored trait simply increases that to +2.)

[fistofdarwin]

If statistics count for anything, Human is certainly highly valued, if not OP. In the d20pfsrd.com Character Survey, over 30% of all characters were human, and within *every* class Human was the most popular single race.

[Kurald Galain]

And as such half-orcs can get up to a +2 luck to all saves if they take Sacred Tattoo and Fate's Favored Faith Trait which makes them a pretty good race.

Precisely. That makes them a pretty good race, as you say. NOT an overpowered race, which is what this thread is about.

[Mechalich]

Wyrwoods are a potentially OP candidate, simply because they are constructs with an Int Bonus. Overall HP will end up being low, but that list of construct immunities is pretty awesome. A wyrwood wizard can just not care about having a bad Fort save. Also not having to eat, sleep, or breathe is a pretty sweet bonus.

[upho]

If statistics count for anything, Human is certainly highly valued, if not OP. In the d20pfsrd.com Character Survey, over 30% of all characters were human, and within *every* class Human was the most popular single race.

I don't think those statistics say anything useful about whether human is mechanically OP or not. And they're not surprising in any way, considering human would most likely remain the far most popular race even if it was mechanically weaker, since many players seem to prefer human for pure flavor/RP reasons. Not to mention that I'm pretty darn certain human is allowed in far more numerous games than any other race. But of course, the popularity of the race is also an effect of its crunch ensuring it's practically never a bad choice, and very often at least one of the top five core/featured/uncommon race picks for any given class/build.

So, I guess those statistics confirm human has the most "OP" flavor and "brand"...?

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I'm gonna go with Aasimar, for reasons already stated. Versatile, zero weaknesses or penalties (humans don't either, but while they are versatile, they quite get as close as the Aasimar), powerful racial abilities, and quite good feat support.