is wanda booped?

[donkyhotay]

Wanda promised stanley that jillian wouldn't attack but she still did. Admittedly the battle against the dwagons isn't over and jillian may change the way the battle ends that justifies wandas trust but, seems to me stanley is going to be pretty upset with wanda (maybe even more then he's upset with hamster) since wanda promised jillian wouldn't attack.

[jindra34]

Wanda promised stanley that jillian wouldn't attack but she still did. Admittedly the battle against the dwagons isn't over and jillian may change the way the battle ends that justifies wandas trust but, seems to me stanley is going to be pretty upset with wanda (maybe even more then he's upset with hamster) since wanda promised jillian wouldn't attack.

Well it her, parson or ansom. and i doubt the last two are going down.

[boomwolf]

two options here:

1-wonda gonna get croacked by stanly and dwagens get croacked by jillian.

2-jillian will attack the archons, making stanly forgive wanda for the few dead dwagons.

[Lamech]

Wanda's to valuable to croak she's the one who summoned Parson. (Which made GK quite a bit of money if nothing else.) Also Wanda created all those uncroaked. Stanley will need her to do that again if GK and his army is lost. So Wanda isn't going to croak.

[SteveMB]

Wanda promised stanley that jillian wouldn't attack but she still did. Admittedly the battle against the dwagons isn't over and jillian may change the way the battle ends that justifies wandas trust but, seems to me stanley is going to be pretty upset with wanda (maybe even more then he's upset with hamster) since wanda promised jillian wouldn't attack.

Yep. Stanley has a temper, but not quite (so far as we've seen) to the Darth Vader point of killing off subordinates for a single failure -- particularly not subordinates that he badly needs (Parson is his only live warlord, and probably one who has been more successful, even now, than the ones who were running operations during the decline of Stanley's holdings from 11 cities to one; Wanda is presumably his only source of uncroaked troops).

[Halfpunch]

It also depends on what he gets in return for sacrificing 6+ (all we've seen croaked) dwagons. I'm sure netting the Arkenpliers would go a long way to cooling him down, even if the whole lake hex was lost.

[ag30476]

It also depends on what he gets in return for sacrificing 6+ (all we've seen croaked) dwagons. I'm sure netting the Arkenpliers would go a long way to cooling him down, even if the whole lake hex was lost.

Yes but how to get it to him...hmm...or rather how to save Wanda's cute little boop...lesse...

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1. Jillian is attacking the healthy dwagon-fort dwagons -- unlikely given the "let me at the walord" comment.

2. It's all a dream. Jillian is in fantasy fantasy land after thinkagraming Ansom. -- cliched but it might work

3. Jillian freezes before she can act perhaps with a gentle reminder from Wanda -- possible but who knows?

4. Ansom doesn't believe Jillian so he comes to the battle and oh no's Ansom don'ts get in the way! Benchmark! -- don't like it.

5. Jillian croaks the dwagons but then defects to Stanley's side -- interesting and even exchange.

6. Jillian croaks the dwagons but then defects to Stanley's side after stealing the Arkenpliers from Ansom -- she does not seem the thieving type though

7. Jillian croaks the dwagons and return triumphantly to an all too happy Ansom but he still can't get any action from her . Meanwhile, dysfunctional intepersonal dynamics abound in the Gobwin Knob control room but in the end we're all still family. End of arc. Part II continues the story.

Of all these, I say 3, 5 and 7 are the most likely. But I think I favor 2 cause it's just so crazy it's bound to work!

And of course, the answer could be D. None of the above.

[benthehater]

Well, if you're going to look at the literary elements (boop you in the boop ag30476, if that's your real name) to try to get a handle on what will happen to the very attractive (yet not all that sympathetic) Wanda Firebaugh there's reason to suspect that ...

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We had a panel transition from sobbing pathetic Jillian to super confident Jillian, and specifically, we weren't informed of what happened during this interim of time. And as we've kinda went over before, we weren't given a lot of clues this time, though I'm sure they are there and that we've been set up so well by the accellerated story that we can't recognise them at this point. But I think we're genuinely supposed to wonder about what happened in that space of time between sobby Jillian and strong Jillian to allow Jillian to make the transition.

And futhermore...

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More important than precisely which hex of Dwagons she's attacking with the Archons, to understand who she's acting in the favor of we need to speculate instead on what allowed her to make the change from weak Jillian to strong Jillian. The impression the Ansom team seems to go with is that the Archons have broken the spell on her, and that not being under Wanda's spell has allowed Jillian to regain her confidence, express her exclusive affection for Ansom, and find the inner strength of true love to battle her enemies. Contrarywise, and I actually don't know if I believe this, but it is fun to speculate (booping boop) is the idea that in that unrevealed time period that contained the transition of Jillian from weak to strong, she contacted Wanda before she contacted Ansom. Encouraging words from Wanda could even be as simple as, "Darling, you need to be strong right now and stop crying. Pull yourself together. I think it's time you told Ansom how you feel about him. Okay? So you send him a nice note as soon as you're done, and then go attack this stack and do this so that whatever."

But of course...

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I can't get behind that one either. I like best that in the unrevealed time, Jillian didn't pick a side. That if she sent a thinkagram to Wanda too, that the thinkagram was also one way, and was also Jillian being honest about how she feels about Wanda, which would basically be more or less the same she feels about Ansom. Jillian can make an enemy or lover of who she chooses, and though she adores Wanda, she'll still act to crush Stanley since her hatred of him isn't mitigated in the least. Ultimately, that attitude for speculative purposes leaves us right back where we started. If Jillian is still acting in the basic interest of both Ansom and Wanda, then I do believe she could do any of the possible course of actions outlined. "Sorry Wanda, these Warlords and Dwagons have to go, I'll rescue you later after Gobwin Knob falls." even "Sorry Ansom, I've also got to protect the cheif Croakamancer on Stanley's side from Stanley, so we can't do too well in these battles until it's time for the final seige." or even "Sorry lovers, you have conflicting interests at stake here, so I'm going to act in my own interest exclusively until I can safely act in both your interests simultaneously."

which of course leaves us with this problem...

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It's really possible that this scenario might have been engineered by Rob to drive shippers crazy. That the more a person takes a personal interest in a particular pairing of Jillian will be finding more supporting evidence of that pairing in the subtext. Which also goes right back to ag30476's manipulation thread, which I guess holds more and more merit (I admit this with reluctance) the more I think about it. I'm basically caught in it too, though my preference is that I find Jillian more sympathetic than either of her lovers, so that I'd prefer her making choices in her best interest, and I'm holding to the idea that she's somehow either choosing to keep both of her lovers or neither of them. Maybe I'm just as blinded by my own personal investment into Jillian's character as anybody else is at this point.

And hey, there's lots of possibilities here.

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Juillian and Jacklyn start developing feelings for each other. Why not? Who says Archons can't also be sluts? But in all seriousness, I think just being talked through her situation, caught between her two lovers interest, could've been enough for Jillian to find confidence on her own. The character is in despair, basically crawling and aware of how pathetic that is, basically hitting bottom. An objective look at the situation with some objective help and encouraging words "I'm a competant and highly skilled warlord and I have the stats to prove it" can allow someone to come out of a depression funk, and best yet, come out of it with confidence. What really laid her low, I think, was the fact that people were accusing her of being a traitor, and that she kinda felt like she was a traitor, even though she wasn't actually betraying anybody. Her shameful situation was that she had a lover on both sides of the battle, and her remarks to Ansom reveal that she's decided not to let that bother her anymore. She's free to love who she chooses, and that's that. Freed from that guilt, she can have the courage to do whatever asskicking in whoever's interest she likes.

and incidentally...

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Vinnie, the master of objective assessments of all things Erfworld, has basically confirmed that Webinar is a jerk. So phhhhbt. Boop you Webinar, boop you in your booping boop, jerkface. The Woodsy Elves want you tried for warcrimes for keeping that Gump up your boop.

[Krelon]

let's say Jillian croaks the A dwagons and all the warlorsd. Who is to take the blame?

It was Parsons plan that was flawed, but Wanda summoned him in the first place. Wanda wanted to set Jillian free again and told the tool that she will be more valuable free than sitting in the dungeon. Wanda didn't inform Parson about available options (like veiling). Clearly Wanda is to take most of it.

Wanda is really lucky though, cause Stanley just cannot disband or croak her... most of his units are uncroaked controlled by her, so she'll live.

[Aquillion]

let's say Jillian croaks the A dwagons and all the warlorsd. Who is to take the blame?

It was Parsons plan that was flawed, but Wanda summoned him in the first place.

It wasn't really that Parson's plan was flawed--Wanda gave him a few things to work with, one of which was that she controlled Jillian's mind. It's not his fault she was wrong, no more than it would have been his fault if it turned out dragons sucked in combat and could be attacked by anyone even in heavy forest.

Of course, Stanley might not see it that way, but there you have it.

[StickMan]

Some how I just don't see Wanda dieing see as we are just seeing the start of this battle and she is quite powerful.

[ag30476]

Well, if you're going to look at the literary elements (boop you in the boop ag30476, if that's your real name)

It's the disease of the intellectual...but thank you for a most excellent and thought provoking post benthehater.

to try to get a handle on what will happen to the very attractive (yet not all that sympathetic) Wanda Firebaugh there's reason to suspect that ...

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We had a panel transition from sobbing pathetic Jillian to super confident Jillian, and specifically, we weren't informed of what happened during this interim of time. And as we've kinda went over before, we weren't given a lot of clues this time, though I'm sure they are there and that we've been set up so well by the accellerated story that we can't recognise them at this point. But I think we're genuinely supposed to wonder about what happened in that space of time between sobby Jillian and strong Jillian to allow Jillian to make the transition.

Agreed

And futhermore...

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More important than precisely which hex of Dwagons she's attacking with the Archons, to understand who she's acting in the favor of we need to speculate instead on what allowed her to make the change from weak Jillian to strong Jillian. The impression the Ansom team seems to go with is that the Archons have broken the spell on her, and that not being under Wanda's spell has allowed Jillian to regain her confidence, express her exclusive affection for Ansom, and find the inner strength of true love to battle her enemies. Contrarywise, and I actually don't know if I believe this, but it is fun to speculate (booping boop) is the idea that in that unrevealed time period that contained the transition of Jillian from weak to strong, she contacted Wanda before she contacted Ansom. Encouraging words from Wanda could even be as simple as, "Darling, you need to be strong right now and stop crying. Pull yourself together. I think it's time you told Ansom how you feel about him. Okay? So you send him a nice note as soon as you're done, and then go attack this stack and do this so that whatever."

A good possibility

But of course...

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I can't get behind that one either. I like best that in the unrevealed time, Jillian didn't pick a side. That if she sent a thinkagram to Wanda too, that the thinkagram was also one way, and was also Jillian being honest about how she feels about Wanda, which would basically be more or less the same she feels about Ansom. Jillian can make an enemy or lover of who she chooses, and though she adores Wanda, she'll still act to crush Stanley since her hatred of him isn't mitigated in the least. Ultimately, that attitude for speculative purposes leaves us right back where we started. If Jillian is still acting in the basic interest of both Ansom and Wanda, then I do believe she could do any of the possible course of actions outlined. "Sorry Wanda, these Warlords and Dwagons have to go, I'll rescue you later after Gobwin Knob falls." even "Sorry Ansom, I've also got to protect the cheif Croakamancer on Stanley's side from Stanley, so we can't do too well in these battles until it's time for the final seige." or even "Sorry lovers, you have conflicting interests at stake here, so I'm going to act in my own interest exclusively until I can safely act in both your interests simultaneously."

Free love is neither free nor love, discuss...

which of course leaves us with this problem...

Spoiler

Show

It's really possible that this scenario might have been engineered by Rob to drive shippers crazy. That the more a person takes a personal interest in a particular pairing of Jillian will be finding more supporting evidence of that pairing in the subtext. Which also goes right back to ag30476's manipulation thread, which I guess holds more and more merit (I admit this with reluctance) the more I think about it. I'm basically caught in it too, though my preference is that I find Jillian more sympathetic than either of her lovers, so that I'd prefer her making choices in her best interest, and I'm holding to the idea that she's somehow either choosing to keep both of her lovers or neither of them. Maybe I'm just as blinded by my own personal investment into Jillian's character as anybody else is at this point.

This game of expectation and manipulation between author and reader always goes on but with a web comic it becomes much more conscious because of the slow pacing of publishing and the accelerated nature of the comics form.

And hey, there's lots of possibilities here.

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Juillian and Jacklyn start developing feelings for each other. Why not? Who says Archons can't also be sluts? But in all seriousness, I think just being talked through her situation, caught between her two lovers interest, could've been enough for Jillian to find confidence on her own. The character is in despair, basically crawling and aware of how pathetic that is, basically hitting bottom. An objective look at the situation with some objective help and encouraging words "I'm a competant and highly skilled warlord and I have the stats to prove it" can allow someone to come out of a depression funk, and best yet, come out of it with confidence. What really laid her low, I think, was the fact that people were accusing her of being a traitor, and that she kinda felt like she was a traitor, even though she wasn't actually betraying anybody. Her shameful situation was that she had a lover on both sides of the battle, and her remarks to Ansom reveal that she's decided not to let that bother her anymore. She's free to love who she chooses, and that's that. Freed from that guilt, she can have the courage to do whatever asskicking in whoever's interest she likes.

I found Jillian's words ironic in that she is so bound up by love that she is/was practically immobile.

and incidentally...

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Vinnie, the master of objective assessments of all things Erfworld, has basically confirmed that Webinar is a jerk. So phhhhbt. Boop you Webinar, boop you in your booping boop, jerkface. The Woodsy Elves want you tried for warcrimes for keeping that Gump up your boop.

You know I think I'm one of the few readers who like that jerk.

[benthehater]

Free love is neither free nor love, discuss...

Oh, I very much agree with that. For humans. But in a world where the people of the world don't cause procreation through intimacy, love isn't love either. It's biologically unnecessary for Erfworlders to engage in pair-bonding, so they don't have to. Likewise, no unit ever needs to "provide" for another, no screaming mouths to feed, and no need for the other half of a pair to take care of the screaming mouths. A city cares for it's units that it produces. Each produced unit has a purpose, and no unit ever has to struggle for a job. Though admittidly gender is also apparantly completely unecessary too, we still have it anyway.

While Erfworld still resemble Earthworld, I still hold to the idea that since love is not a biological imperative, and that it serves no pragmatic purpose, that Jillian is genuinely free to make lovers or enemies of anyone she chooses, in ways that humans really arn't.

[ag30476]

While Erfworld still resemble Earthworld, I still hold to the idea that since love is not a biological imperative, and that it serves no pragmatic purpose, that Jillian is genuinely free to make lovers or enemies of anyone she chooses, in ways that humans really arn't.

Except that when she loves two different people then she may be forced to make an impossible choice...

[kpenguin]

Wanda is booping Stanley, presumably, so that might be a factor on whether she's booped.

[benthehater]

Except that when she loves two different people then she may be forced to make an impossible choice...

True. I think agonized helpless and pathetic Jillian was struggling with and impossible choice. And that the strong confident and proud Jillian (the one we got the jump cut to) somehow successfully made an impossible choice, and (in my own wishful thinking) chose both.

The transition from a royal to a barbarian might possibly support this, though that's a stretch in my own mind. Jillian had a royal life, she lost that royal life, and had to take up a barbarian life, and found that she liked barbarian life much more than royal life. And though she could potentially, perhaps if Gobwin Knob is defeated, choose to resume royal life, I don't think that she would. You know, no, that doesn't support anything at all. Forget that.

Instead, I'll posit that since her affection for Ansom is in spite of her dislike for his royalness (pomposity? arrogance? resemblence to how she used to life?) her feelings for him are emotionally anchored in spite of an intellectual sureness that it wouldn't work? Think she could convince him to become a barbarian instead of a prince? Think she wants to join him and become a princess again? (oh, it did support something, just not what I thought it did)

But that also ties into the emotional freedom of Jillian anyway. If Jillian can't help her feelings for Ansom, is it really a choice? Was I going somewhere with this? Maybe?

[Kreistor]

Well, I find Jillian's statement in 74 that she will see Ansom soon suggestive that she is not doing what we initially think she is. She loves Ansom and hates Stanley. If she is booping Stanley by killing the weakened dwagons, she isn't helping Ansom, who is still stuck in his trap.

To see Ansom, she has to rescue him. To do that, she needs to shorten his distance to his own lines. To achieve that, she needs to smash one of the undamaged dwagon stacks, and leave the injured ones alone.

So, my guess is that Jillian is not doing what Ansom wants her to: she is rescuing the man she loves. She kills dwagons, hurting Stanley, and takes Ansom out of the trap, hurting Stanley even more, but Parson gets a "bye" because the vulnerable dwagons come out unscathed. Parson gets to perform his anti-siege engine assault a second time, ending the immediate threat to the city, and buying the time he needs to learn the rules of the game.

And Wanda gets off, because Jillian leaves the vulnerable dwagons alone, as promised.

And the war would continue. Destroying the weakened dwagons or killing Ansom might end the story early.

[ag30476]

Well, I find Jillian's statement in 74 that she will see Ansom soon suggestive that she is not doing what we initially think she is. She loves Ansom and hates Stanley. If she is booping Stanley by killing the weakened dwagons, she isn't helping Ansom, who is still stuck in his trap.

To see Ansom, she has to rescue him. To do that, she needs to shorten his distance to his own lines. To achieve that, she needs to smash one of the undamaged dwagon stacks, and leave the injured ones alone.

So, my guess is that Jillian is not doing what Ansom wants her to: she is rescuing the man she loves. She kills dwagons, hurting Stanley, and takes Ansom out of the trap, hurting Stanley even more, but Parson gets a "bye" because the vulnerable dwagons come out unscathed. Parson gets to perform his anti-siege engine assault a second time, ending the immediate threat to the city, and buying the time he needs to learn the rules of the game.

And Wanda gets off, because Jillian leaves the vulnerable dwagons alone, as promised.

And the war would continue. Destroying the weakened dwagons or killing Ansom might end the story early.

She was trying to rescue Ansom before she met the dwagons on the lake. The Archons even suggested just flying to Ansom without rationalization when she was "stuck", but she couldn't make that decision either. She seems to make up her mind in 74 as you say.

Otherwise yes, the story is at an impasse. Killing the wounded dwagons and uncroaked warlords makes it very bad news for Stanley and Wanda story-wise and for Parson character-wise. Doing nothing to the wounded dwagons and uncroaked warlords makes it very bad news for the coalition and Ansom story-wise and for Jillian character-wise -- bad enough that the entire seige might fail evidently due to Jillian's betrayal.

So how to fix this? That's the question. I would be all for your suggestion that she is trying to save Ansom. That would probably result in

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Ansom sacrificing himself - something which I think will happen at some point in the story anyway

That would be a good resolution to the impasse

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Parson looses the wounded dwagons and the chance to eliminate the seige but Stanley gets Ansom and the arkenpliers

But in 75 her command to the Archons implies she's going after the wounded dwagons because the warlords are with the wounded dwagons. And that's the major problem with this line of speculation.

[Seraph]

so, it seems that wanda was utterly wrong in the worst possible way.

I hope she catches hell for this, her self-satisfaction is really starting to grind on my nerves.

[Burrito]

Looks like now it is up to Parson to pull everyone's chestnuts out of the fire. Yeah, Wanda is boobed. Her stock with Stanley is in the Sub Prime Mortgage category.

[donkyhotay]

I think attacking the dwagons are somehow in wanda's best interest (at least in jillians mind). You notice how she says "whatever happens, one of your dolls is about to get broken" which to me hints that destroying the warlords isn't her goal right now but will happen as part of whatever it is she is trying to do.

[SteveMB]

Yeah, Wanda is boobed.

If ever there was a Freudian slip....

I think attacking the dwagons are somehow in wanda's best interest (at least in jillians mind). You notice how she says "whatever happens, one of your dolls is about to get broken" which to me hints that destroying the warlords isn't her goal right now but will happen as part of whatever it is she is trying to do.

I think she was sardonically referring to the uncroaked warlords and herself (until just now) as Wanda's "dolls" (echoing Jaclyn's comparison earlier). Her jump was likely to end badly for either herself or her target.

[ag30476]

You gotta admit this is going to setup one hella "You've been a bad girl" Wanda session.

[ag30476]

OK so spoiler time

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Before I was thinking Jillian betrays->Ansom sacrifices (captured)->siege units saved ->siege continues & Jillian atones in Part II

But now, maybe Jillian betrays->Jillian atones by sacrifice (captured)->siege units saved ->siege & Jillian's extended sacrifice continues in Part II

[the_tick_rules]

she'll just do whatever she did last time when she took her clothes off to calm him down.

[JazzManJim]

Unless things change drastically and her spell still has some real power, she will, at least, find herself on the chokey end of Erfworld's shortest leash.