Death Battle IV: The Source Material Loses

[Kitten Champion]

If they keep doing live action matches, I'd be interested in seeing a battle between Merlin ((BBC)), vs The Evil Queen ((Once Upon A Time)).

That's extremely vague though. I've only seen maybe a dozen episodes of Merlin from early seasons that I've largely forgotten so I don't know where that ended up, but Regina's magic was mostly plot-dependant for what she could do in any given week.

Though OUaT mostly relied on throwing fireballs, that pretty ubiquitous smokey teleportation effect, and the usual television go-to of hand-wave = telekinetic shove -- because they presumably could keep recreating those visuals cheaply.

[ArlEammon]

That's extremely vague though. I've only seen maybe a dozen episodes of Merlin from early seasons that I've largely forgotten so I don't know where that ended up, but Regina's magic was mostly plot-dependant for what she could do in any given week.

Though OUaT mostly relied on throwing fireballs, that pretty ubiquitous smokey teleportation effect, and the usual television go-to of hand-wave = telekinetic shove -- because they presumably could keep recreating those visuals cheaply.

Yeah, what Regina could do at any given time was entirely plot dependent from show to show. However, she didn't seem capable of taking down most significant threats by herself. Merlin on the other hand, seemed more than capable of summoning thunderstorms and lightning bolts, as much as he could command the forces of levitation. Especially with his Sidhe Staff.

[Reddish Mage]

Sounds to me the opposite of vague. With only a few episodes to a few seasons of a LIVE-ACTION TV show as your source materials, your characters will be way more grounded than the usual characters they prefer who exist in at least two forms of media (manga and anime at the very least) and usually many more than that.

Also, Mario vs. Sonic rematch? What? Why?

The only rematch we’ve seen is so far is Superman v. Goku and that fight feels like its fueled half the pages on all the threads. What earth shattering event would make us thing the outcome should be changed?

Of course, they’ve admitted the rules they are following now have congealed after a lot of these episodes and the early matches were practically Wild West compared to how they think of fights now. However, rematches without new significant new potentially-outcome changing source material just seem wrong.

[Forum Explorer]

Also, Mario vs. Sonic rematch? What? Why?

The only rematch we’ve seen is so far is Superman v. Goku and that fight feels like its fueled half the pages on all the threads. What earth shattering event would make us thing the outcome should be changed?

Of course, they’ve admitted the rules they are following now have congealed after a lot of these episodes and the early matches were practically Wild West compared to how they think of fights now. However, rematches without new significant new potentially-outcome changing source material just seem wrong.

Well there are the new Mario games, so that could change things up. That with the new rules. So Mario winning this time around doesn't seem that unlikely.

[Kato]

So, Mario vs Sonic happened.
It was fun. I had no stakes in the outcome but I'm not surprised, I feel like they tried to calculate even more stuff than other times, which of course just gives more ridiculous numbers... But I really don't care.
I also quite liked most of the animation. Very different from other episodes but it was nice.

Next time...

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Evil Robot Showdown. Sigma vs Ultron. I feel I know neither well enough to make a call on this...My gut says Ultron, though.

[McNum]

So, Mario vs Sonic happened.
It was fun. I had no stakes in the outcome but I'm not surprised, I feel like they tried to calculate even more stuff than other times, which of course just gives more ridiculous numbers... But I really don't care.
I also quite liked most of the animation. Very different from other episodes but it was nice.

Next time...

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Evil Robot Showdown. Sigma vs Ultron. I feel I know neither well enough to make a call on this...My gut says Ultron, though.

Spoiler: Next Time...

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Ultron vs Sigma is interesting in part because the villain of Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite is Ultron Sigma. That is Ultron and Sigma merged into one.

Also thematically, they are very appropriate. One is an artificial lifeform with a severe hatred of organic life, capable of subverting any computer system. He is impossible to keep down as whenever one of his bodies is destroyed he comes back with a more powerful one soon after. The other, of course, is Ultron.

When they team up in MvC:I the conversation is basically like this:

"All biological life must be exterminated."
"Agreed, but how?"
"With violence!"

I mean just look at this:

(Jump to 3:39-ish)

I would almost be disappointed if the winner doesn't absorb the loser here and become Ultron Sigma.

[Kato]

Well, that was... flashy? And also not.

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I guess Ultron does have the more ridiculous feats by extension of Marvel breaking physics on a galactic scale, while Megaman only does so on a stellar level.
I want to argue "that's not how viruses work" but then who am I to decide how magic AIs / viruses work... In the end, I guess Ultron winning is fair but a team up would have been more fun.

I'm afraid to talk about next time....

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But, well, one blew up a moon... I hope it will be fun, though.

[Rater202]

Spoiler: Next Time

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That's not even a fair fight. Nothing Jiraiya has can compare to destroying the moon as a moderate effort and if we take Muten Roshi's being able to fight Frieza goons in Resurrection F and his position as a contestant in the tournament of power as an indication that he's quietly gained a major power increase since then(I mean, roshi was competing against people who were the pears of potential universe busters) then that's hands down an offense greater than anything short of six Path's Sage Mode Naruto in the Naruto setting.

The Super Manga also indiates that Master Roshi, through pure skill, almost has ultra instinct, pasivly, as he doesn't automatically adapt but he can automatically avoid any attack that he could have reasonably seen coming.

Roshi also went out of his way to train himself to control his perverted tendencies in Super, meaning that his one major weakness no longer affects him.

[Traab]

So sigma versus ultron is out. Before we get to the conclusion, I just want to say the sigma description was obnoxious as it was like 90% "Well he beat this guy, who in turn did THIS therefore he must be better" I hate that crud.

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I had a feeling they would bring it to who could infect who, I cant really argue with the outcome though I think a large part of it was the difference in mediums as comics tend to scale further and higher than games do.

Follow up

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roshi and jiraya? Seriously? Didnt roshi blow up a frigging MOON once?

[Mato]

Spoiler: Next time on Death Battle

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Dragonball loses to Naruto.

[HolyDraconus]

Huge spoilers for those that haven't seen it.

Spoiler: Last chance to look away

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Of course Roshi takes this. The only thing he didn't have in this fight is an auto kill like Jiraiya had, but even that isn't enough. On top of that, they tossed out the manga but kept in Super, including the Tournament of Power, and kept the moon busting feat, citing scaling from others. Jiraiya didn't stand a chance when those two things was on the table.

And of course

Spoiler: Next Time on Death Battle

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This fight is stupid. Darkseid vs Thanos? seriously?? Its been awhile since I read comics, but I think that this fight should end with Darkseid on top. Its been pointed out that he's an actual needed component for the universe to work or some crap like that, with the added bonus of being in a literal higher dimension. And if they are going to use composite characters, then Darkseid shouldn't lose to the guy who was beat by Squirrel Girl.

[Rater202]

Spoiler: Next Time

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If Thanos has the Gauntlet, he wins.

If he doesn't have the Gauntlet, he's been nerfed--he's strongly associated with it and the gems and he's had it enough times that it should count as part of his arsenal.

Regardless, this is gonna be interesting since Both Darkseid and Thanos are immortal--Darkseid from being a New God and an Incarnation of the Cosmic Principal of Tyranny and Thanos from being an Eternal(who just can't die under normal circumstances. Even reducing them to their component molecules and scattering them across the cosmos causes them to reform in a city on Titan.)

Of course, since Death Battles has a massively inflated view of Superman due to taking a couple of his feats out of context and that huge freaking leap of logic about him being infinte, and since Darkseid is supposedly stronger than Superman in canon, they'll probably give it to Darkseid een if they let Thanos keep the Gauntlet.

[Anteros]

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Thanos is in approximately 352,987,591,087 Marvel stories and has the Gauntlet in one of them. It's explicitly not normally a part of his arsenal. Aside from which, the gems only work in his home universe and the fight is more likely to take place on neutral ground anyway.

Darkseid is typically depicted as a higher tier of power than Thanos. It should be a stomp in his favor unless DB finds some obscure feat to apply their bad math to and give Thanos the win...which isn't unlikely at all.

[Traab]

Spoiler: next time

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Well clearly since batman, an unenhanced mortal, was able to dodge the omega beams, darksieds best weapon is useless and thanos wins. Thats how it works right? Take a single iteration of events, apply it across the board and declare victory?

[Anteros]

Spoiler: next time

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Well clearly since batman, an unenhanced mortal, was able to dodge the omega beams, darksieds best weapon is useless and thanos wins. Thats how it works right? Take a single iteration of events, apply it across the board and declare victory?

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In that case Thanos better hope that Darkseid doesn't have any Hostess fruit snacks.

[Devonix]

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You know this is unlikely because no one has ever used Batman Dodging the Omega Beams as any kind of feat. It's not that it's considered an outlier. It's just ignored because No one uses the Cartoon when discussing Darkseid. He's a completely different character. You could call it an Avatar but it's almost never even mentioned when talking about him. Everyone accepts that Batman can't dodge the Omega Beams.

[Lemmy]

Spoiler: Next Time

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If Thanos has the Gauntlet, he wins.

If he doesn't have the Gauntlet, he's been nerfed--he's strongly associated with it and the gems and he's had it enough times that it should count as part of his arsenal.

Regardless, this is gonna be interesting since Both Darkseid and Thanos are immortal--Darkseid from being a New God and an Incarnation of the Cosmic Principal of Tyranny and Thanos from being an Eternal(who just can't die under normal circumstances. Even reducing them to their component molecules and scattering them across the cosmos causes them to reform in a city on Titan.)

Of course, since Death Battles has a massively inflated view of Superman due to taking a couple of his feats out of context and that huge freaking leap of logic about him being infinte, and since Darkseid is supposedly stronger than Superman in canon, they'll probably give it to Darkseid een if they let Thanos keep the Gauntlet.

Spoiler: Next Time

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I agree with everything said... I'll only add the caveat that depending on what universe the battle takes place, the gauntlet would be completely useless.

BTW, why are we adding spoilers in a discussion about an episode that hasn't aired yet?

[Rater202]

Spoiler: next time

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Well clearly since batman, an unenhanced mortal, was able to dodge the omega beams, darksieds best weapon is useless and thanos wins. Thats how it works right? Take a single iteration of events, apply it across the board and declare victory?

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Well, each instance of Darkseid is supposed to be an extension of the same entity, but I think that this was decided after the DCAU ended, so... There's precedent, but not good precedent.

The bigger issue with the Omega Beams is that they are demonstrated to, when used purely destructively, are able to do severe but not irreperable damage to the Earth when piercing it's crust multible times, which actually means that purely destructivly they're actually really weak for a cosmic being of Darkseid's power. Their other abillities might be useful, but if he uses them purely to do damage it's not gonna be enough to kill Thanos.

And again: It's a death battle between two characters that physically can't die. I think that's missing the point.

[Lord Raziere]

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And again: It's a death battle between two characters that physically can't die. I think that's missing the point.

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Yeah if thats the case, as well as what everyone else is saying for these two, then they've potentially stepped into a fight more problematic than any other. cause now we'll get arguments on how neither should've lost because THEY CAN'T DIE.

they've stepped into a situation where the only option for them is bull. because full power Thanos is literally banned by Death itself from dying, and full power Darkseid can't die because he is tyranny incarnate. and Thanos can be omnipotent because of a Gaudy Glove and Darkseid can be omnipotent because Evil Math.

so we have two potentially immortal, potentially omnipotent beings doing battle. meaning that by default this should be a meaningless battle which neither can win. because there is no word on whether Gaudy Glove or Evil Math wins over the other because same problem with every crossover having no rules on how powers cross over with each other.

which means this is perfect flamebait for Death Battle, because they thrive on making people angry about this sort of thing.

[HolyDraconus]

Spoiler: Next Time

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I agree with everything said... I'll only add the caveat that depending on what universe the battle takes place, the gauntlet would be completely useless.

BTW, why are we adding spoilers in a discussion about an episode that hasn't aired yet?

Cause roshi v jiraiya hasn't been public so the next fight is a spoiler

[Traab]

Well its public now and has about a dozen spoilered posts so anyone not watching the video yet has no excuse to whine if we stop. I cant say im shocked at how this one ended, it was flash versus quicksilver all over again. Maybe naruto would have been able to beat roshi, they already gave him the ability to tank moon busting feats. (Well moon SLICING feats at least) and his power levels are way beyond jiraya, as is his speed. Or maybe he would have sexy jutsued roshi and gotten the easy kill. If he could do it to kaguya he would certainly do it to this pervert.

[HolyDraconus]

Well its public now and has about a dozen spoilered posts so anyone not watching the video yet has no excuse to whine if we stop. I cant say im shocked at how this one ended, it was flash versus quicksilver all over again. Maybe naruto would have been able to beat roshi, they already gave him the ability to tank moon busting feats. (Well moon SLICING feats at least) and his power levels are way beyond jiraya, as is his speed. Or maybe he would have sexy jutsued roshi and gotten the easy kill. If he could do it to kaguya he would certainly do it to this pervert.

They used Super, meaning sexy jutsu straight up does not work. Roshi trained against that extensively to the point of being immune to those tactics now.

[Traab]

They used Super, meaning sexy jutsu straight up does not work. Roshi trained against that extensively to the point of being immune to those tactics now.

Ah well then it likely would have gotten pulled out early on in the fight since seeing roshi flip out over "lame" porn like icha icha would have let him know dude was a pervert. One of the joke exchanges before we ramp up to *deep breath* Six path demonic sage asura path kyuubi mode with hot sauce and bacon on the side *deep breath*

[Forum Explorer]

Well its public now and has about a dozen spoilered posts so anyone not watching the video yet has no excuse to whine if we stop. I cant say im shocked at how this one ended, it was flash versus quicksilver all over again. Maybe naruto would have been able to beat roshi, they already gave him the ability to tank moon busting feats. (Well moon SLICING feats at least) and his power levels are way beyond jiraya, as is his speed. Or maybe he would have sexy jutsued roshi and gotten the easy kill. If he could do it to kaguya he would certainly do it to this pervert.

Pretty much. DBZ is mostly entirely on a different scale then Naruto. I mean, the highest Naruto goes is moon busting, and DBZ starts there. Even taking it at it's absolute minimum portrayed power, it's still way above planet busting.

And in Naruto only Naruto and Sauske even get to the high power levels. Everyone else stays pretty close to where they were at start.

Unfortunate as it may be, it means there really aren't many good match ups for DBZ.

[HolyDraconus]

Ah well then it likely would have gotten pulled out early on in the fight since seeing roshi flip out over "lame" porn like icha icha would have let him know dude was a pervert. One of the joke exchanges before we ramp up to *deep breath* Six path demonic sage asura path kyuubi mode with hot sauce and bacon on the side *deep breath*

In all honesty I rather they pit roshi up against kakashi. At least he's still rolling around and has a chance to get a power boost in boruto.

[Devonix]

Thanos isn't getting the Infinity Glove for the fight. It wouldn't really make much sense. The Glove isn't standard equipment. It's not his or something he can just pull out. He's got no greater claim on it than any other Marvel Character.

Thanos isn't getting it. And if Adam Warlock was in Death Battle he wouldn't get it either.

[Lord Raziere]

Thanos isn't getting the Infinity Glove for the fight. It wouldn't really make much sense. The Glove isn't standard equipment. It's not his or something he can just pull out. He's got no greater claim on it than any other Marvel Character.

Thanos isn't getting it. And if Adam Warlock was in Death Battle he wouldn't get it either.

well then its just a question of whether Evil Math can convert someone who ALREADY thinks life isn't worth living so much that he has literally fallen in love with the manifestation of Death itself, to the point where Death was like "no, get away from me you creep" and put a metaphysical restraining order on him.

[Devonix]

well then its just a question of whether Evil Math can convert someone who ALREADY thinks life isn't worth living so much that he has literally fallen in love with the manifestation of Death itself, to the point where Death was like "no, get away from me you creep" and put a metaphysical restraining order on him.

Darkseid's not going to get the Anti Life equation either. it's not something usable in combat. It's a method of conquest not combat.

[tyckspoon]

Pretty much. DBZ is mostly entirely on a different scale then Naruto. I mean, the highest Naruto goes is moon busting, and DBZ starts there. Even taking it at it's absolute minimum portrayed power, it's still way above planet busting.

And in Naruto only Naruto and Sauske even get to the high power levels. Everyone else stays pretty close to where they were at start.

Unfortunate as it may be, it means there really aren't many good match ups for DBZ.

Well, if you're matching superpower martial artists against each other, yes. DBZ characters have been shown to still be vulnerable to weird magic crap almost regardless of their ability to throw huge amounts of ki around, and the Naruto universe has a lot of that to provide. Things like genjutsu artists, Sharingan Nonsense, or something like shadow possession could put up a decent match against DBZ fighters. (I still think DBZ would win against anything except maybe the worst of Sharingan Nonsense, but there'd be enough give there to put up a back-and-forth before the DBZ fighter realizes they can totally just explode most Naruto fighters by flooding the area with ki bursts.)

[Rater202]

Thanos isn't getting the Infinity Glove for the fight. It wouldn't really make much sense. The Glove isn't standard equipment. It's not his or something he can just pull out. He's got no greater claim on it than any other Marvel Character.

Thanos isn't getting it. And if Adam Warlock was in Death Battle he wouldn't get it either.

Thanos has a fair claim to it becuase there are multiple incarnations of Thanos that have acquired the Gauntlet and the Gauntlet and the Stones are all highly associated with him.

Thanos without the Gauntlet is like King Arthur without the Sword from the Stone, it doesn't matter that he only had it for one or two stories, it's too iconic to leave out.