Specific Leveling Order:

[Os1ris09]

Hey Everyone,

After a long hiatus I am playing DnD again except in 5th Ed instead of 3.5! I was reading up on how strong paladin/bards are and noticed that multiclassing is extremely different now (and pretty much everything else).

I have been perusing the guides here and finding out whats "optimized" but I noticed that there isn't really any guidance on specific leveling orders and which "focuses" to go into (ex. Oath of Devotion, College of Lore, etc).

Any recommendations for specific leveling order for Bard XX / Paladin 4 and which devotions / college to focus under? Pretty much all material is available since the DM always has the "rocks fall and you die" trump card.

Thanks in advance and its good to be back!

[GentlemanVoodoo]

5e doesn't really focus on this much unless you have a specific build style in mind. If you are wanting more melee based then you should do first 5 levels of paladin to get your second attack and some of the smite spells. If more on party buffs at least two levels in paladin for the heavy armor and fighting style choice then jump to bard. Subclass choice again depends on what your after. For instance, oath of vengence will make you a heavy hitter while oath of the ancients gives a mix of offense and defense abilities.

[LibraryOgre]

The Mod Wonder: Moved to 5e subforum.

[Unoriginal]

If you don't mind me asking, what in this multiclass do you consider to be powerful, exactly?

As in, what do you want out of the end result?

[JeffreyGator]

You probably want to take paladin first to get heavy armor since you may not care as much about two extra instruments unless you weren't planning to take at least 2 skills from the paladin list.

I think a simpler version of what you may be going for is hexblade/bard.

Take hex blade 1 bard 4.

[Laserlight]

The things to keep in mind when multiclassing are:
1. Which class gets better save proficiency? (Paladin gets WIS, Bard gets DEX, both get CHA)
2. Which class gets better armor proficiency after considering what you get when multiclassing? (If you start Bard then MC Paladin, you get Medium and Shield but not Heavy)
3. Is there an order which makes sense for how the character is supposed to operate? For example, if you're planning to use Bard slots to fuel the paladin smites, I'd go Paladin 2 then Bard X.

[PeteNutButter]

There are basically two optimal options for this MC.

1) Paladin 2/Bard x. This one is slower and requires you to be a sword or valor bard. You still get extra attack but not until level 8, a painful 3 levels after most martials. Two weapon fighting may alleviate some of the problems.

2) Paladin 6/Bard x. This one is more defensive as it gets paladin’s +cha to saves and more streamlined as you can get extra attack right at level 5. If it were me, I’d take a single bard level at around level 3 to get the feel of it before finishing to paladin 6, but it’s optimal to wait. For this one you are best avoiding swords or valor bard so you don’t double up on extra attack. Those features don’t stack and are wasted. Swords might still be worth it, especially if you leave it at level 5. Lore bard or whisper bard might be best for this one.

There are other breakpoints for paladin, but the basics are those two.

[Petrocorus]

If you plan to take at least 4 levels of Paladin, you may as well take ( to have the second attack) . And in this case, Paladin will already give you half of what Valor or Sword would. So, you're probably better with Lore.

You also need to decide if you want to go Strengh or Dex. For fighting. If you want to emphasize on Dex, then you don't really need the heavy armor proficiency. In the same time, you should decide your base fighting technique (SaB, THF, TWF, Polearms, Archery, etc..)

Concerning the Oath, Vengeance is generally consider the more powerful overall, but Ancient has a very powerful level 7 feature and probably suits more a Bard multiclass.

Concerning the breaking point, this heavily depends on what emphasis you want to give to your PC and what will the maximum level in your campaign be.

You can also consider the Magic Initiate feat to get BB and / or GFB, and Shield or Expeditious Retreat.

The things to keep in mind when multiclassing are:
1. Which class gets better save proficiency? (Paladin gets WIS, Bard gets DEX, both get CHA)
2. Which class gets better armor proficiency after considering what you get when multiclassing? (If you start Bard then MC Paladin, you get Medium and Shield but not Heavy)
3. Is there an order which makes sense for how the character is supposed to operate? For example, if you're planning to use Bard slots to fuel the paladin smites, I'd go Paladin 2 then Bard X.

I would add "2.5. Which class gets the better skill list and what skills combination you get after multiclassing". Though, in this case, you will probably find 2 skills in the Paladin's list that you want to have anyway.

[Os1ris09]

OK so after having spent several weeks trying to find my password again to this website I can finally answer all of the questions that have been asked (sorry about that):

@GentlemenVoodoo - thanks I figured this as much after doing some deep reading

@The Wonder Mod - my bad I hadn't noticed a 5e thread. :/

@ Unoriginal - I'm looking to have a great utility character that if needed can turn on UBER mode to bail the party out of hard situations (I don't want to overshadow people since a majority of the group isn't looking to power game which is why I chose a bard so I can make people better)

@JeffreyGator - Hey thanks for the Warlock/Bard idea! I'll have to keep that in mind on the next campaign :)

@Laserlight - Thanks for presenting the questions one needs to ask in 5e. I used to be pretty good at this but I haven't played DnD for over a year in 3.5e

@PeteNutButter - Thanks for the in depth explanation on each path and the pro's and con's. I had done a weird mix where I went Paladin 4, Bard 3, and am now looking at how to correct course :)

@Petrocorus - Hey thanks for an indepth explanation again on the paths and routes to take. Though I do have a question: What is BB and GFB? Greater Fireball?

[Exocist]

@PeteNutButter - Thanks for the in depth explanation on each path and the pro's and con's. I had done a weird mix where I went Paladin 4, Bard 3, and am now looking at how to correct course :)

@Petrocorus - Hey thanks for an indepth explanation again on the paths and routes to take. Though I do have a question: What is BB and GFB? Greater Fireball?

BB = Booming Blade, GFB = Green-Flame Blade. They're cantrips that make a melee attack with some bonus damage/effects.

If you're already Paladin 4, I would go to Paladin 6 then continue with Bard. The +Saves Aura is generally going to be better than the refreshing inspiration. In this case, take Lore Bard because Cutting Words is good.

@ Unoriginal - I'm looking to have a great utility character that if needed can turn on UBER mode to bail the party out of hard situations (I don't want to overshadow people since a majority of the group isn't looking to power game which is why I chose a bard so I can make people better)

A straight Bard or Warlock (Hexblade) 1-2/Bard (College of Lore) 18-19 might be more within your interests then? Spellcasters in 5e mostly fill the control/support role, with high-level slots being used to bail the party out of hard situations.

If going Warlock 2, take Agonising Blast so you can do damage from a distance, use Cutting Words from Lore Bard to prevent your party taking damage/failing saves, and throw out the high level slots when things get dire.