Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #34: Mere mortal, not immortal, not starcrossed, anymore

[RoboEmperor]

Q 164

Does being mindless prevent you from using SLAs or Su abilities?

So if a Paeliryon gets turned into a mindless construct via Polymorph Any Object will any of her SLA and Su abilities become unavailable?

[Venger]

A 164 No

That would be fun to watch

millions of people agree

[heavyfuel]

Q 164

Does being mindless prevent you from using SLAs or Su abilities?

So if a Paeliryon gets turned into a mindless construct via Polymorph Any Object will any of her SLA and Su abilities become unavailable?

A 164

They can still use them as normal.

[Sir_Chivalry]

Q 165

Can a morningstar (bludgeoning and piercing) be either impact or keen?

Would a weapon which was bludgeoning or piercing need to have both keen and impact to take advantage of the increased critical range?

[Blue Jay]

Q 165

Can a morningstar (bludgeoning and piercing) be either impact or keen?

Would a weapon which was bludgeoning or piercing need to have both keen and impact to take advantage of the increased critical range?

A 165

Yes, a morningstar is both a bludgeoning and piercing weapon, so all damage it deals is both bludgeoning and piercing damage, and it can qualify for and benefit from either impact or keen. But, the two properties wouldn't stack with each other.

As for a weapon with bludgeoning or piercing, that gets a bit more complicated. The only weapon I'm aware of that does this is the goad from Frostburn. By a strictly literal reading of the rules, the damage type is only important when determining whether the weapon qualifies for the property, and it doesn't come into play when deciding whether a specific attack with the weapon benefits from the property. I guess that means a +1 keen goad always gets the increased threat range, even on attacks where you're choosing to deal bludgeon. But, I would assume that the RAI was for a +1 keen goad to only benefit from keen when used as a piercing weapon.

[RoboEmperor]

Q 166
Can Wyrm Wizard grab Domain Exclusive Spells?

1. They can grab any spell from any CLASS's spell list.
2. Domain spells are not on any class spell list.

YES
Divine Crusaders's RAW directly says it has a CLASS spell list of 1 domain.

NO
Domain Spells don't have Level:Divine Crusader X, in its description. So the spell itself is not on the Divine Crusader's spell list, and the class has a special ability to make that spell into its class spell (similar to Wyrm Wizard's Spell Research) meaning just because a Divine Crusader can make the domain spell its class spell doesn't mean the domain spells themselves are class spells.

Or some other reason?

[Troacctid]

Q 166
Can Wyrm Wizard grab Domain Exclusive Spells?

1. They can grab any spell from any CLASS's spell list.
2. Domain spells are not on any class spell list.

YES
Divine Crusaders's RAW directly says it has a CLASS spell list of 1 domain.

NO
Domain Spells don't have Level:Divine Crusader X, in its description. So the spell itself is not on the Divine Crusader's spell list, and the class has a special ability to make that spell into its class spell (similar to Wyrm Wizard's Spell Research) meaning just because a Divine Crusader can make the domain spell its class spell doesn't mean the domain spells themselves are class spells.

Or some other reason?

The answer is no, for the reason you stated.

[RoboEmperor]

Q 167

If a sorcerer casts a spell with 1 round casting time with the Rapid Spell tacked on, how long does the casting time take?

Adding metamagic to a spell longer than 1 round casting is 1 round casting + full-round action. But Rapid spell reduces spells whose casting time is measured in rounds to 1 full round action.

Will the result be 1 full-round action? Or 2 full-round actions (which equates to 1 round casting + full-round action, making the whole thing moot)

What happens if we add Arcane Spellsurge to the mix?

[RaiKirah]

Q 168

Are all SLAs 'innate,' or only racial/inherited template SLAs?

[Thurbane]

Q 168

Are all SLAs 'innate,' or only racial/inherited template SLAs?

A 168

"Innate" is not a defined game term, so there is no RAW answer for this. Ask your DM.

This is an often debated topic, especially in regards to Supernatural Transformation.

FWIW, the Official FAQ has this to say:

Can a warlock qualify for the Supernatural Transformation feat (Savage Species, page 39) and change one of his invocations into a supernatural ability?
No. The warlock’s spell-like abilities are learned (from class levels), not innate (that is, part of his racial traits).

[heavyfuel]

Q 167

If a sorcerer casts a spell with 1 round casting time with the Rapid Spell tacked on, how long does the casting time take?

Adding metamagic to a spell longer than 1 round casting is 1 round casting + full-round action. But Rapid spell reduces spells whose casting time is measured in rounds to 1 full round action.

Will the result be 1 full-round action? Or 2 full-round actions (which equates to 1 round casting + full-round action, making the whole thing moot)

What happens if we add Arcane Spellsurge to the mix?

A 167

Rapid Spell doesn't influence the casting time because a spell whose casting time is "1 round plus 1 full round action" isn't measured in rounds. Therefore the metamagic feat has no effect.

Arcane Spellsurge faces similar problems. The spell takes less than 2 rounds but more than 1 full round, so its casting time is unaffected by the spell.

[Troacctid]

Q 168

Are all SLAs 'innate,' or only racial/inherited template SLAs?

Spell-like abilities in general are classified as innate magic, according to Complete Mage. But "innate" is just a description, not a special rules term. Class abilities can be innate—Warlock invocations are called out as such, for example, as are psionic powers.

By harnessing his innate magical gift through fearsome determination and force of will, a warlock can perform feats of supernatural stealth, beguile the weak-minded, or scour his foes with blasts of eldritch power.

A psionic character is blessed with a form of innate ability that enables him or her to use mental power to achieve goals or perform tasks that nonpsionic characters can accomplish—if they’re even capable of doing them at all—only by using gross physical skills such as brute strength or raw agility, or by using intellect or force of will distinct from the natural power of the mind itself.

You can also gain explicitly "innate" spell-like abilities from feats like Necropolis Born, Night Haunt, Spell Hand, and of course Innate Spell.

If an ability were to refer to only those spell-like abilities gained from a race or template, the term would be racial spell-like abilities, as seen in the wording of the Magic In The Blood feat (PG 40).

[RoboEmperor]

Q 169

Earliest level you can take a skill trick?

Swift Concentration:12

Level 8
Concentration 11

Level 9
Concentration 12

Can I learn it 8->9 by spending 1+2 points? Or do I have to grab it at 10?

[RoboEmperor]

A 167

Rapid Spell doesn't influence the casting time because a spell whose casting time is "1 round plus 1 full round action" isn't measured in rounds. Therefore the metamagic feat has no effect.

Arcane Spellsurge faces similar problems. The spell takes less than 2 rounds but more than 1 full round, so its casting time is unaffected by the spell.

A 167 Contention

Special

A spell can be made rapid and quickened only if its original casting time was 1 full round. This feat can be applied to a spell cast spontaneously as long as its original casting time was longer than 1 full round.

Wouldn't this mean that all spells with 1 round casting time or greater would become 1 full round casting time if a sorcerer applies Rapid Spell spontaneously?

[daremetoidareyo]

Q. 170
Is the taunt ability of the jester (dragon compendium) gained at 1st level or 3rd level?

[Venger]

A 169 Skill tricks are bought with skill points. That's the time you do it in the level-up decision tree. You may take swift concentration at 9, assuming you have 12 ranks in concentration.

A 170 3rd. Why did you think you get it at 1st?

[OgresAreCute]

A 170 3rd. Why did you think you get it at 1st?

I assume because in the text (not the table) it doesn't say that "at 3rd level..." etc, and the skill requirement can be fulfilled at level 1.

[heavyfuel]

Q. 170
Is the taunt ability of the jester (dragon compendium) gained at 1st level or 3rd level?

A 170

It's a weird ability. You gain it at level 3, but you only need 3 Ranks to use it.

A 167 Contention

Wouldn't this mean that all spells with 1 round casting time or greater would become 1 full round casting time if a sorcerer applies Rapid Spell spontaneously?

A 167 - Contention

Taking a better look at it, the feat heavily implies the original casting time is what's important (it explicitly says so later in the "Special" part), but it doesn't change the rule for longer casting times of spontaneous applying metamagic.

So, a spell that takes a full round now takes a standard action, which is then increased to 1 full round action because it had metamagic applied to it.

You could then apply Arcane Spellsurge to further reduce this casting time.

Q 169

Earliest level you can take a skill trick?

Swift Concentration:12

Level 8
Concentration 11

Level 9
Concentration 12

Can I learn it 8->9 by spending 1+2 points? Or do I have to grab it at 10?

A 169

You have to grab it at 10. No rule says you choose the order you spend your skill points, you spend them all at once.

So first you need to qualify for the trick, and next time you gain skill points you can spend them on the trick.

[Troacctid]

A 169

You have to grab it at 10. No rule says you choose the order you spend your skill points, you spend them all at once.

So first you need to qualify for the trick, and next time you gain skill points you can spend them on the trick.

Where's the rule that says you spend them all at once?

[heavyfuel]

Where's the rule that says you spend them all at once?

It's not a rule, it's absence of a rule that says otherwise. The rules don't say you can, so you can't.

As per standard procedure, further discussion should be in a separate thread.

[RoboEmperor]

Q 171

Ok, just so I don't make a fool out of myself... the following combo is legit right?

Turn 1:
Cast Arcane Spellsurge (standard)
Cast Greater Dimension Door (swift)
Move action to teleport me behind FULL COVER.

Turn 2:
Move action to teleport me outside full cover.
Cast Rapid Spell Lower Resistance, which is now 1round->full round->standard action cast time.
Cast Greater Teleport (swift) back into full cover.

Turn 3:
Repeat Turn 2 except swap out Rapid Spell Lower Resistance with some other spell, like extended (standard action) spell.

Essentially letting me cast spells without exposing myself to danger? (excluding readied actions)

[heavyfuel]

Q 171

Ok, just so I don't make a fool out of myself... the following combo is legit right?

Turn 1:
Cast Arcane Spellsurge (standard)
Cast Greater Dimension Door (swift)
Move action to teleport me behind FULL COVER.

Turn 2:
Move action to teleport me outside full cover.
Cast Rapid Spell Lower Resistance, which is now 1round->full round->standard action cast time.
Cast Greater Teleport (swift) back into full cover.

Turn 3:
Repeat Turn 2 except swap out Rapid Spell Lower Resistance with some other spell, like extended (standard action) spell.

Essentially letting me cast spells without exposing myself to danger? (excluding readied actions)

A 171 - Partial

I see a potential problem.

Greater Dimension Door works like Dimension Door, which means that when you use the spell you cannot take further actions.

After using this spell, you can’t take any other actions until your next turn

Now, since "using" a spell is never covered by the rules, it's up to the DM what it means. If the DM rules "using" it is teleporting, then you have a problem with step 2.

[RoboEmperor]

A 171 - Partial

I see a potential problem.

Greater Dimension Door works like Dimension Door, which means that when you use the spell you cannot take further actions.



Now, since "using" a spell is never covered by the rules, it's up to the DM what it means. If the DM rules "using" it is teleporting, then you have a problem with step 2.

A 171 - Cont

Thx, is why I ask.
Swapping Greater Dimension Door and Greater Teleport should solve the problem right?


Turn 1:
Cast Arcane Spellsurge (standard)
Cast Greater Dimension Door (swift)
Move action to teleport me behind FULL COVER.

Turn 2:
Cast Greater Teleport (swift) outside full cover.
Cast Rapid Spell Lower Resistance, which is now 1round->full round->standard action cast time.
Move action to teleport me back into full cover.

Turn 3:
Repeat Turn 2 except swap out Rapid Spell Lower Resistance with some other spell, like extended (standard action) spell.

[Troacctid]

It's not a rule, it's absence of a rule that says otherwise. The rules don't say you can, so you can't.

As per standard procedure, further discussion should be in a separate thread.

There is absolutely a rule that says otherwise. The Player's Handbook outlines the process for spending skill points step-by-step on page 62. Not only do you not spend them all simultaneously, there's actually an order given for which skills you typically buy first.

[heavyfuel]

There is absolutely a rule that says otherwise. The Player's Handbook outlines the process for spending skill points step-by-step on page 62. Not only do you not spend them all simultaneously, there's actually an order given for which skills you typically buy first.

Fair point. But that's for buying ranks.

For getting Skill Tricks, you need to already have the ranks, because you must get them when you acquire the skill points.

You acquire them before Step 1. Step is see how many you have, so acquiring them is "Step 0"

And Skill Tricks say: Whenever you acquire skill points, you can choose to spend skill points to acquire a skill trick instead of purchasing ranks in skills.

You buy ranks after acquiring, but you need to get your Skill Tricks before that.

[magicalmagicman]

Fair point. But that's for buying ranks.

For getting Skill Tricks, you need to already have the ranks, because you must get them when you acquire the skill points.

You acquire them before Step 1. Step is see how many you have, so acquiring them is "Step 0"

And Skill Tricks say: Whenever you acquire skill points, you can choose to spend skill points to acquire a skill trick instead of purchasing ranks in skills.

You buy ranks after acquiring, but you need to get your Skill Tricks before that.

You always have the option of purchasing ranks in skills as long as you have skill points. So when you use 1 out of 5 points to boost concentration to 12 at level 9, you still have 4 points left, so instead of purchasing more ranks you can choose acquire the skill trick.

[RoboEmperor]

Q 172

Mariliths in the Monster Manual have at-will polymorph.
Mariliths in the d20srd don't.

Am I correct in saying that the MM is the primary source and that Mariliths do have at-will polymorph?

[Venger]

A 172 You are not. This was changed in the update. The srd will incorporate updates from 3.0 to 3.5, errata, etc. Mariliths don't have polymorph anymore.

[RoboEmperor]

A 172 You are not. This was changed in the update. The srd will incorporate updates from 3.0 to 3.5, errata, etc. Mariliths don't have polymorph anymore.

A 172 Contention

The 3.5 MM has polymorph on Marilith (p.45). I am failing to find an errata. So... what update removed Marilith's at-will polymorph?

The srd is known to have inaccuracies, like making Epic Perform DCs identical to Epic Diplomacy DCs when they are higher in the book.

[Blue Jay]

A 172 Contention

The 3.5 MM has polymorph on Marilith (p.45). I am failing to find an errata.

A 172

It's there. It's under "Demon, Marilith" on page 2 of the MM errata file.