Simple RAW Thread for 3.5 #34: Mere mortal, not immortal, not starcrossed, anymore

[Arkhios]

A 48 I agree this is beyond the scope of the simple raw thread if you're going to bring that into it. You or Arkhios are welcome to make your own separate thread to argue about it.

FWIW, I have no interest in starting a thread over a quibble. That, and I just found out that there's been an errata (of sorts) which says that 'range: touch' simply doesn't count as a fixed range for the purpose of that feat (if at all).

Q 49

One of Hierophant's (Prestige Class in DMG) Special Abilities is Spell Power. How does this work if you were Mystic Theurge before you entered Hierophant? Does one instance of Spell Power apply to both (or all) caster levels you have, or do you have to choose which one to apply the increase to when you choose the Special Ability?

[Venger]

I didn't know there was errata. Was it in CArc's?

A 49 it works on all caster levels you may have.

[Arkhios]

I didn't know there was errata. Was it in CArc's?

Apparently in Player's Guide to Faerûn. While it's not the original source, at least it's from the same edition (3.5). As far as I know, the most recent instance is always the more valid one, so in that regard, that counts as an "errata" (of sorts).

[St Fan]

Q 50

Sanctified spells with a sacrifice cost and Corrupt spells with a corruption cost have said costs occur "when the spell duration expires".

What happens, however, if the spell is cast but fail to take effect (because of a non-viable target, spell resistance or a successful saving throw)? The spell can't have its duration expires if it doesn't take effect in the first place. Is the sacrifice/corruption cost waved?

[Venger]

A 50 Yes, if the spell never expires, you'll never have to pay the piper and the damage is waived. No word on what happens with instantaneous/permanent spells, unfortunately

Q 51 Beyond the normal -1 from being masterwork, do you deduct the total naked magical + from an armor's acp?
(e.g., a +2 soulfire suit of armor, do you deduct 1, 2, or 3 from its acp?)

[KillianHawkeye]

A 51

The magical enhancement bonus on a piece of armor has no effect whatsoever on the armor's Armor Check Penalty. You only get the reduction for being masterwork.

[Kalkra]

Q 52
Can you make a wand (or other magical item) that casts an epic spell? To clarify, I know that with epic item creation feats you can get spells above 9th level, but that's normal spells with metamagic, not epic spells. If you can, can an Artificer emulate an epic spell with UMD? If so, do you still need to research it?

[Arkhios]

Q 53a
Is the spell of a spell-like ability arcane or divine spell? I seem to recall that at least in pathfinder there was a priority in which order you determine the nature of a spell when it's a spell-like ability. For example, if the spell is only on the list of a divine spellcaster, it's a divine spell. Likewise, if it's only on the list of an arcane spellcaster, it's an arcane spell. And (iirc) if it's on multiple classes' lists, the order of priority started from Wizard (making the spell-like ability's spell an arcane spell). Is there such an order of priority in 3.5.

Q 53b
If you have a spell as a spell-like ability, does that spell count as meeting the prerequisite for feats, prestige classes, etc? For example, Arcane Trickster requires that the character is able to cast at least one 3rd-level arcane spell, and the character has a 3rd-level spell as a spell-like ability, could he, by RAW, enter Arcane Trickster if the other prerequisites are also met?

[Troacctid]

Q 53a
Is the spell of a spell-like ability arcane or divine spell? I seem to recall that at least in pathfinder there was a priority in which order you determine the nature of a spell when it's a spell-like ability. For example, if the spell is only on the list of a divine spellcaster, it's a divine spell. Likewise, if it's only on the list of an arcane spellcaster, it's an arcane spell. What if it's on both, such as Daylight?

Spell-like abilities are not spells, so they can't be arcane spells or divine spells. Complete Mage indicates that they are in their own class of innate magic. Invocations are an exception in this matter; they are the only spell-like abilities that are explicitly called out as being arcane.

This is more circumstantial than ironclad. There's some weak textual evidence pointing the other way, which leaves a little room for DM discretion. I'll edit in a bit with some relevant quotes and page numbers.

EDIT:

Complete Mage, p7:

Some creatures are born with the capacity to work genuine magic, just like some creatures have the power of flight or the ability to breathe water. Such creatures have no explainable awareness of how they actually manage their magical talents. They have no special ability to sense magic, and they don't do anything special to work their magic beyond willing their magical tricks to happen. Such creatures seem to function as self-filling vessels for magical power. They naturally collect magical potential and release it with a thought.

This magical potential doesn't seem to have any clear link either to arcane magic or to divine magic, though it creates results similar or identical to those arising from spells. A glabrezu's dispel magic ability functions like the same spell cast by a wizard or cleric (hence the term “spell-like”).

A few magical theorists even claim that the “spells” of a sorcerer or a dragon have more in common with the spell-like abilities of warlocks and various other creatures than with the spells of a wizard. These individuals suggest that an entire third category of magic (called, for lack of a better term, “innate” magic) would better describe those who wield magic without relying on either traditional learning or a divine source. So far, this theory has gained little traction among traditional sages.

Because this section is couched in terms of in-universe research and theory, it doesn't have the same weight as if it stated it outright; there's room for these theorists to be wrong if the DM interprets the world that way.

Player's Handbook, p180:

A dryad’s charm person effect and the greater teleport ability of many devils are spell-like abilities. Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A few spell-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.

A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component. A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and to being dispelled by dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated, such as an antimagic field. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.

"In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell" can be interpreted broadly without leaving the bounds of RAW, but the broad interpretation has less textual support than the narrower one, as other descriptions of spell-like abilities in the Monster Manual and Dungeon Master's Guide do not include any language to that effect.

Q 53b
If you have a spell as a spell-like ability, does that spell count as meeting the prerequisite for feats, prestige classes, etc? For example, Arcane Trickster requires that the character is able to cast at least one 3rd-level arcane spell, and the character has a 3rd-level spell as a spell-like ability, could he, by RAW, enter Arcane Trickster if the other prerequisites are also met?

The rules for this are in Complete Arcane. Spell-like abilities can fulfill caster level requirements, like Acolyte of the Skin, or specific spell requirements, like Mindbender. But not spell level requirements like your example.

[lylsyly]

Q54 According to RAW, can or cannot the Feat Extra Spell grab spells form another list?

[Venger]

A 54 Yes, you can. Feats which restrict you to selecting from a certain list, such as Arcane Schooling, specify it in the rules text.

[Luckmann]

Q55: Is it possible to suppress or disable class abilities or features? For example, if I don't want the Morninglord's "Lathander's Light" (doubling the are of spells with the [Light] descriptor) to apply.

[Thurbane]

A 054 continued

FWIW, the Official FAQ specifically disallows you from using the feat that way:

Can the warmage (CAr) benefit from the Extra Spellfeat?
No. Extra Spell lets you add one spell to your list of spells known, but the spell must be taken from your class spell list. Since the warmage already knows all the spells on his class spell list, this feat has no effect.

Can you take spells from spell lists other than your own with the Extra Spell feat (CAr 79)?
The Extra Spell feat allows you to choose a new spell, but it does not remove the restrictions of how you would normally pick your spells—so they must be picked from your own spell list.

Leaving aside the fact that many don't consider the Official FAQ a RAW source, there's also another issue: what level is the spell is it for you if it's not on your class list? Holy Sword is a 4th level Paladin spell. What level spell is it for a Sorcerer?

If you take FAQ as RAW, then the answer to the question is a definitive no.

If not, I would call it an "Ask your DM" answer.

[Venger]

faq ≠ raw. there's no consideration involved.

A 55 No.

[flappeercraft]

A 55 continued
There are some variant curses on Dragon Magazine #348 that allow you to do it and similar including feats, spellcasting and some class features. Also you could remove Lathander's light via the spell Expunge the Supernatural from ToM although at a 500xp cost.

Q 56
Can improvised weapons be enchanted as normal weapons are by a Fiend of Possession?

[Venger]

A 56 Yes, you can.

[Troacctid]

faq ≠ raw. there's no consideration involved.

In this case the FAQ also cites the RAW in its answer. Extra Spell doesn't include any exception to the normal parameters for choosing spells—and those parameters typically specify a list that your spells are chosen from.

[Arkhios]

Tried to search for an answer, but couldn't find anything related to 3.5 (probably because the official forums have been shut down):
Q 57a

Does casting and/or issuing attacks with Spiritual Weapon break Sanctuary?

Q 57b

How about Summon Monster/Nature's Ally I through IX and similar spells?

Technically, in both cases, the attacks happen separate from your own actions, but I wanted to be sure.

[Venger]

A 57a Yes

A 57b No

[Sir_Chivalry]

Q58 Let's say I have more gold than sense and I want the world's most expensive armour (nevermind this won't be very effective)

Are things like Ysgardian Heartwire (noted as being used to reinforce armour and threaded through it) and Susalian Chainweave (Complete Warrior, elven knot-chainmail technique and highly expensive for little effect) considered armour materials (and therefore are mutuallly exclusive and bar the use of other materials like mithral or the like) or can they be combined?

Once again, I understand it's not a very effective suit of armour

[Goaty14]

Q 059

How much material or size of creature can a sack hold? Backpack?

[Thurbane]

A 059

Undefined. Ask the DM.

You could perform some extrapolations from the size of the creature wearing the backpack or carrying the sack and real-world examples, but in general, there are no hard and fast limits I am aware of.

There is the following footnote on the Goods and Services section:

These items weigh one-quarter this amount when made for Small characters. Containers for Small characters also carry one-quarter the normal amount.

...however, the carrying amount of a "default" medium sized creature's container is never defined to begin with.

[St Fan]

Q 60

The Quick character trait (from Unearthed Arcana) gives as benefit: "Your base land speed increases by 10 feet."

The Celerity Domain granted power (from Spell Compendium) is as follow: "Your land speed is faster than the norm for your race by 10 feet. This benefit is lost if you are wearing medium or heavy armor or carrying a medium or heavy load."

Considering the wording, would those two speed bonuses stack, or would they be exclusive?

[Warchon]

Q61 When multiplying a rounded number, do you still round down? Example: A critical hit with a natural weapon that adds 1.5STR to the damage if Str mod is +3, 2dX+8 (4.5 rounded down is 4, times two is 8) or 2DX+9 (4.5 times two is 9). Or a class feature that adds half of a stat bonus to something per level.

[Venger]

A 60 Yes. They stack.

[St Fan]

Q58 Let's say I have more gold than sense and I want the world's most expensive armour (nevermind this won't be very effective)

Are things like Ysgardian Heartwire (noted as being used to reinforce armour and threaded through it) and Susalian Chainweave (Complete Warrior, elven knot-chainmail technique and highly expensive for little effect) considered armour materials (and therefore are mutuallly exclusive and bar the use of other materials like mithral or the like) or can they be combined?

Once again, I understand it's not a very effective suit of armour

From their descriptions, Ysgardian Heartwire is only added in small sections of the armor, and "is so fine and light that it does not increase the armor's weight," and Susalian Chainweave is more of a forging/knitting technique than a material per se.

In both case, this strongly implies they can be added to other materials, whether it be steel, mithral or adamantine. Sure would be expensive, but doable if you can find an armorsmith skilled enough.

[Skevvix]

Q62 Can a non-spellcaster take ranks in Craft(Alchemy)? I know they can't make the items, but nothing I saw stated you had to be a caster to take ranks.

[Venger]

A 62 Yes, they can take ranks if they want to.

[St Fan]

Q62 Can a non-spellcaster take ranks in Craft(Alchemy)? I know they can't make the items, but nothing I saw stated you had to be a caster to take ranks.

A 62 Yes, they can take ranks if they want to.

Note that Craft (alchemy) can be used to identify some alchemy products. So a non-spellcaster can't craft, but can still sometimes use the skill.

[St Fan]

Q 63

I've just realized that I may have had a misconception about the Domain feats:

If you have the ability to turn or rebuke undead, you can gain additional daily uses
of a domain feat’s benefit by permanently sacrificing daily uses of that ability.

Emphasis mine. I've always assumed the additional daily uses of the feat with turn/rebuke undead were converted on-the-fly, as with Divine feats. However, this line implies this is instead a definitive process chosen along the feat.

For example, if a cleric picks the Travel Devotion, he can gain one additional daily use for two turn/rebuke undead daily uses -- by permanently reducing his daily uses of turn/rebuke undead, from the even amount of his choice.

Am I reading it right?