An 8th level spell

[Mightymosy]

I was wondering: the specifics of what Thor wants Durkon to get from Redcloak, are unclear to me. Is it enough if he casts some random 9th level spell while Durkon is around? Does he need to "donate one spell slot"? Must he agree to Thor granting him one specific spell?

I think all of this might be left unclear purposefully so that we readers keep on guessing. Will Durkon persuade Redcloak? Or trick Redcloak? Or whatever.

I am curious, however, what 8th level spells could be used, if it comes to that? I have no idea about D&D, so anyone have a list of possible 8th level spells Recloak is able to cast?


Merry Christmas to you all, incidentally! ;-)

Edit: 9th level. oopsies :-)

[Lacuna Caster]

There's a full list of 9th-level cleric spells here, and Redcloak also has the destruction domain.

[NerdyKris]

I think he means the spell Lirian and Dorukon used to seal the rifts. A custom spell he needs to learn first.

[Mightymosy]

There's a full list of 9th-level cleric spells here, and Redcloak also has the destruction domain.

Thanks, this is useful!

Now, time for some speculation


1) Astral Projection M: Projects you and companions onto Astral Plane.
2) Energy Drain: Subject gains 2d4 negative levels.
3) Etherealness: Travel to Ethereal Plane with companions.
4) Gate X: Connects two planes for travel or summoning.
5) Heal, Mass: As heal, but with several subjects.
6) Implosion: Kills one creature/round.
7) Miracle X: Requests a deity’s intercession.
8) Soul Bind F: Traps newly dead soul to prevent resurrection.
9) Storm of Vengeance: Storm rains acid, lightning, and hail.
10) Summon Monster IX: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you.
11) True Resurrection M: As resurrection, plus remains aren’t needed.


1) and 3) and 4) I don't understand the differences between 1 and 3 and 4, but either one might fit into the story when they travel to the grave of dead worlds, maybe?

2) Is that what Xykon uses?

5) I can see Mass Heal being used in some scenario.

6) This one has been used by Redcloak - so if casting any 9th level spell with Durkon nearby is enough for Thor, this might be the way it goes if Durkon tricks Redcloak to use 9th level spells in combat.
7) This one could also be tied nicely into the story - it is a 9th level spell and it brings the Dark One into the story directly. Neat!
8) Hasn't this also been used by Soulbind? Or the Dark Dragon mother wanted to use it?
10) Maybe Redcloak uses it and the monster that appears is MitD or his father?
11) Also a nice one. I know the Giant hates resurrection, but he might have given in to it being part of the story universe he created, seeing that he used it multiple times now (Roy, Durkon, Jirix), and the latest strip with Hilgya casually killing/planning to resurrect Durkon really doing its best to trivialise story death.
Also, he might be okay with True Resurrection if it is a veeeeeery special case, like a once-a-story thing? Who knows?

[Hemoparty]

"We need him to channel his god's purple quiddity into the process of closing the rifts. We only need a drop or so- one 9th-level spell slot should do it."

My interpretation is they need Redcloak to give up a 9th-level spell slot's worth of magical energy into whatever the gate-sealing ritual is. It doesn't seem like it's a specific spell ("We need him to read this scroll and cast the spell written on it") or that Thor needs to give Redcloak a spell ("Tell him to try and pray to me and I'll grant him this 9th-level spell.")

[Keltest]

"We need him to channel his god's purple quiddity into the process of closing the rifts. We only need a drop or so- one 9th-level spell slot should do it."

My interpretation is they need Redcloak to give up a 9th-level spell slot's worth of magical energy into whatever the gate-sealing ritual is. It doesn't seem like it's a specific spell ("We need him to read this scroll and cast the spell written on it") or that Thor needs to give Redcloak a spell ("Tell him to try and pray to me and I'll grant him this 9th-level spell.")

It definitely cant be that last one, because then it would be Thor's energies, not the Dark One's.

[RatElemental]

In epic spellcasting there are rules for having other participants in a ritual to assist in casting the spell. All that happens is they stand around channeling their energy for the duration of the casting time, and then they just expend a spell slot with no spell cast. I expect it to go something like that.

[Quebbster]

Will Durkon have access to 9th level spells after his double resurrection? Will it matter?

[Caerulea]

Will Durkon have access to 9th level spells after his double resurrection? Will it matter?

No and no. The reason that they need Redcloak to donate the spell energy is because The Dark One seems opposed to cooperating for some reason. Thor has no problem with helping seal the rift.

[Sniccups]

Will Durkon have access to 9th level spells after his double resurrection? Will it matter?

Even if Durkon could have done it (which he can't, because the Dark One is what's important here) he could never cast 9th level spells. Durkon* would have been using them, and he loses levels upon Resurrection.

[Quebbster]

Even if Durkon could have done it (which he can't, because the Dark One is what's important here) he could never cast 9th level spells. Durkon* would have been using them, and he loses levels upon Resurrection.

That's my point. I know Redcloak needs to cast a 9th level spell, but I am unsure if clerics for the other pantheons need to contribute too. But I suppose another cleric could do it for the Northern gods, Redcloak is probably the only cleric of the Dark One capable of casting spells at that level.

[Rrmcklin]

That's my point. I know Redcloak needs to cast a 9th level spell, but I am unsure if clerics for the other pantheons need to contribute too. But I suppose another cleric could do it for the Northern gods, Redcloak is probably the only cleric of the Dark One capable of casting spells at that level.

The point is that they need some of the Dark One's quiddity energy or whatever. Redcloak is only involved because the Dark One is so cut off from the rest of the gods known of them can even talk to him. So, no, clerics from any other pantheons need not get involved.

[Quartz]

Here's how I see it: Thor has spoken to Durkon. Durkon needs to speak to Redcloak. Redcloak then communes with The Dark One. The Dark One then comes onside and grants Redcloak the appropriate 9th level spell.

Note also that Epic spells can consume non-Epic spell slots and you don't need to contribute a particular spell, just the power of the slot.

[Lacuna Caster]

1) and 3) and 4) I don't understand the differences between 1 and 3 and 4, but either one might fit into the story when they travel to the grave of dead worlds, maybe?

2) Is that what Xykon uses?

5) I can see Mass Heal being used in some scenario.

6) This one has been used by Redcloak - so if casting any 9th level spell with Durkon nearby is enough for Thor, this might be the way it goes if Durkon tricks Redcloak to use 9th level spells in combat.
7) This one could also be tied nicely into the story - it is a 9th level spell and it brings the Dark One into the story directly. Neat!
8) Hasn't this also been used by Soulbind? Or the Dark Dragon mother wanted to use it?
10) Maybe Redcloak uses it and the monster that appears is MitD or his father?
11) Also a nice one. I know the Giant hates resurrection, but he might have given in to it being part of the story universe he created, seeing that he used it multiple times now (Roy, Durkon, Jirix), and the latest strip with Hilgya casually killing/planning to resurrect Durkon really doing its best to trivialise story death.
Also, he might be okay with True Resurrection if it is a veeeeeery special case, like a once-a-story thing? Who knows?

1/3/4: Gate is noticeably different, since it allows for either travel or summoning directly to any plane, whereas the others only allow for travel through the ethereal. Mostly academic, though.
2/8: Yes, Xykon likes Soul Bind and Energy Drain.
5: Maybe, I guess?
6/9: Thor mentions that Durkon needs to contact him once Redcloak is ready to cooperate, so I don't think this can happen by accident if he casts some horrifying offensive spell.
7/11: Sure, why not?
10: As I understand it, monsters summoned in this manner come from another plane aren't *really* 100% there (since they can't be killed), so I doubt the MitD's father will be summoned that way.

[Chronos]

And Thor did say that he'd give further, more detailed instructions once they'd gotten to that point.

I think the main point, though, is in using the clerics as a channel of communication between the gods (one which won't result in forming a new purple-and-yellow Snarl). There's a reason that all of the priests needed to travel to the Godsmoot: The ordinary way in which gods interact with each other is by their worshipers interacting with each other.

[Goblin_Priest]

I think he means the spell Lirian and Dorukon used to seal the rifts. A custom spell he needs to learn first.

I think he just needs to sacrifice a spell slot, not cast a specific spell.

[Roland Itiative]

I read that dialogue as meaning Redcloak would be the one to cast the divine half of the Gate ritual, thus channeling TDO's purple quidditch into it. Presumably the other three quidditches would come either from the arcane half, or from the caster themselves, as they're made of all three essences, and the previous ritual appeared to have three colours, even though it had a single divine caster.

[Chronos]

I think you've trained your spellcheck a little too well, there. "Quidditch" is the sport Harry Potter plays. "Quiddity" is an old philosophical term meaning, literally, "whichness", or the property of a thing which makes it that thing.

[Roland Itiative]

I think you've trained your spellcheck a little too well, there. "Quidditch" is the sport Harry Potter plays. "Quiddity" is an old philosophical term meaning, literally, "whichness", or the property of a thing which makes it that thing.

Haha, yeah, I guess I'm more used to typing the made-up Harry Potter term than the real-but-obscure word, so it just came naturally

[Grey Watcher]

1/3/4: Gate is noticeably different, since it allows for either travel or summoning directly to any plane, whereas the others only allow for travel through the ethereal. Mostly academic, though.

If you want to get suuuuuuuper-pedantic (and these are the GITP boards, so I know someone other than me wants to), the Ethereal and the Astral planes aren't the same. The Astral is what we saw Durkon and Minrah take a Magic School Bus Deific Piggy-Back Ride through. Exists between all known planes of existence. Is all thinky-thinky.

The Ethereal is more like... an echo of the "real" world (aka the Prime Material, because planar-centrism). It's where ghosts exists (ie, if you went there, ghosts would be solid and you could pass through things like tables and chairs). Best pop-culture thing I can think of is what it looks like from Frodo's perspective when he puts on the Ring (though it's not quite so scary-looking and Frodo in Ring-state is still solid to the world and vice-versa).

Of course, then you get into the "Border Ethereal" (which I have just described) versus the deeper parts of the Ethereal (which I guess means there's a fourth spatial dimension involved). At any rate, the farther you go into the Ethereal, the fainter you and the Prime Material become to one another until you're just lost in a fog and have disappeared completely from the perspective of the PM.

And is there something about eventually ending up in the Astral if you go deep enough into the Ethereal, or am I making things up now?

At any rate, yeah, Etherealness and Astral Projection essentially teleport you (and your friends) to a new place. Gate just opens a doorway, through which people and things can walk, be pushed or pulled, or otherwise travel through.

[KorvinStarmast]

And is there something about eventually ending up in the Astral if you go deep enough into the Ethereal, or am I making things up now?

I think so, since the astral plane borders on all other planes.

At any rate, yeah, Etherealness and Astral Projection essentially teleport you (and your friends) to a new place. Gate just opens a doorway, through which people and things can walk, be pushed or pulled, or otherwise travel through.

Gate is the spell that seems to me most likely to be useful as a plug in to the larger epic casting that needs a 9th level slot. But that's a guess.

[zimmerwald1915]

I think so, since the astral plane borders on all other planes.
Gate is the spell that seems to me most likely to be useful as a plug in to the larger epic casting that needs a 9th level slot. But that's a guess.

Really? I would think miracle would be the obvious choice.

[KorvinStarmast]

Really? I would think miracle would be the obvious choice.

Given how the Red Cloak's divine portion of the snarl movement ritual is built, my estimation is that the internal details of the gate spell have what is needed to corrupt or frustrate the mechanics of the combined divine/arcane "big moment" that Xykon would be trying to pull off - which Red Cloak would then divert to the Dark One's purposes - and as well provide for the means of either sealing a gate (or gate like think) or moving the snarl to another place, or even space time. That's what's behind the guess: far more to it than a spell's name.

That said, I'd not advise betting the rent money on that one.

Gate strikes me as the kind of spell that deals specifically with moving about between planes moreso than Miracle, though the latter surely has plenty of juice.

Moving you and your allies, with all your and their gear, from one plane to another through planar barriers to a specific locale with no chance of error.

While that to me seems a bit to "local" ... I can see it as an option.

Gate also lends itself to a meta joke in re MiTD "What Gate?" being tied into this whole thing.

[RatElemental]

Given how the Red Cloak's divine portion of the snarl movement ritual is built, my estimation is that the internal details of the gate spell have what is needed to corrupt or frustrate the mechanics of the combined divine/arcane "big moment" that Xykon would be trying to pull off - which Red Cloak would then divert to the Dark One's purposes - and as well provide for the means of either sealing a gate (or gate like think) or moving the snarl to another place, or even space time. That's what's behind the guess: far more to it than a spell's name.

That said, I'd not advise betting the rent money on that one.

Gate strikes me as the kind of spell that deals specifically with moving about between planes moreso than Miracle, though the latter surely has plenty of juice.
While that to me seems a bit to "local" ... I can see it as an option.

Gate also lends itself to a meta joke in re MiTD "What Gate?" being tied into this whole thing.

The ritual that needs a 9th level slot from Redcloak is the one to make a new gate, not the ritual to subvert one. Redcloak's only had 9th level slots since after Azure City fell, but he's been trying to capture a gate for far longer than that.

[Lacuna Caster]

If you want to get suuuuuuuper-pedantic (and these are the GITP boards, so I know someone other than me wants to), the Ethereal and the Astral planes aren't the same.

Ah, yes, you're right. Good catch.