Reading Discworld!

[Wraith]

Still, it didn't detract from my enjoyment, as the true value of this book is definitely the characters (and Pratchett's usual incredibly insightful remarks). It shows that even a very simple plot (a generic murder mystery... one the reader knows the answer for way before the characters do, at that!) can still make an incredible story when you have clever writing and great characters... And if there's something that Sir Terry Pratchett gave to Discworld in spades, it's clever writing and great characters.

You're going to LOVE Feet of Clay, I just know it.

Be warned, 90% of the words in Soul Music are rock puns. How you interpret that warning is up to you.

Of which a large number are *British* rock puns, and thus are impenetrable to the rest of the world. I was actively looking for them on my second read-through, and was still amazed by how many I missed when I later consulted the L-Space guide. Try it for yourself, it's an amusing little game within a very entertaining book.

[Evil DM Mark3]

Be warned, 90% of the words in Soul Music are rock puns. How you interpret that warning is up to you.

True dat, on my first exposure I missed a lot of it because I was an ignorant young heathen who had never heard of Buddy Holly.

[Lemmy]

Well... I've been a fan of classic rock and heavy metal since I was omd enough to distinguish between musical genres, so I'm looking forward to it! ^^

[brionl]

There are also some references to the movie The Blues Brothers. If you weren't around in 1980, you might have missed it.

[Malphegor]

the main pun I like in soul music is Bud Y Celyn.

see, that character's from Llamedos, which is basically Discworld Wales.

Celyn is welsh for holly.

Buddy Holly.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

the main pun I like in soul music is Bud Y Celyn.

see, that character's from Llamedos, which is basically Discworld Wales.

Celyn is welsh for holly.

Buddy Holly.

Are you sure? He looks a bit elfish to me.

GW

[Fyraltari]

There are also some references to the movie The Blues Brothers. If you weren't around in 1980, you might have missed it.

If you haven't seen The Blues Brothers, go watch it. Now. This isn't negotiable.

the main pun I like in soul music is Bud Y Celyn.

see, that character's from Llamedos, which is basically Discworld Wales.

Celyn is welsh for holly.

Buddy Holly.

Switching the Welsh for Breton in the French translation is yet another evidence of how great a translator Patrick Couton is.

[Lemmy]

There are also some references to the movie The Blues Brothers. If you weren't around in 1980, you might have missed it.

Well... I was born a little later, but I have seen "The Blue Brothers" more than a few times.

[Calemyr]

Soul Music is pretty good. It's far better if you get the references to the music industry, but it's also a pretty interesting perspective on Discworld regulars, such as the Unseen University and most definitely the House of Death.

I will warn you, though: While it is technically a book in the House of Death line, Death isn't a focal character for the most part. It follows Imp and his friends, the wizards, and a new character named Susan far more than it follows the Reaper himself. Susan is an awesome character, but this always struck me as her weakest book.

[GloatingSwine]

I will warn you, though: While it is technically a book in the House of Death line, Death isn't a focal character for the most part. It follows Imp and his friends, the wizards, and a new character named Susan far more than it follows the Reaper himself. Susan is an awesome character, but this always struck me as her weakest book.

In her later books she's a more settled character and who she is outside of the current story matters because it defines her perspective on the events she experiences. In Soul Music she's a little bit Mort II.

Switching the Welsh for Breton in the French translation is yet another evidence of how grat a translator Patrick Couton is.

How did they handle the name of the song that forms the climax of the story?

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In the original it's called Sioni Bod Da. Sioni is "Johnny" in Welsh, and "bod da" is "behave well", so the song is, basically, Johnny B Goode. Which Imp plays to set the timeline right just like Marty does in Back to the Future, but also the real song is about a country boy made a star by his skill with the guitar....

[Fyraltari]

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In the original it's called Sioni Bod Da. Sioni is "Johnny" in Welsh, and "bod da" is "behave well", so the song is, basically, Johnny B Goode. Which Imp plays to set the timeline right just like Marty does in Back to the Future, but also the real song is about a country boy made a star by his skill with the guitar....

I think it's the same joke but in Breton.

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He plays Yannick bez mad, now I don't speak Breton beyond knowing a dozen words so I can't be 100% sure that's the same joke, but Yannick is Johnny in Breton.

[The New Bruceski]

That song's one I spent a long time trying to spot the joke in before I realized it wasn't in English. I was sure one was there but I thought it would be like Djelibeybi or Hersheba where you just need to sound it out right.

[brionl]

Enh, once they translated Imp's name I figured out what the song name had to be, even though I don't know any Welsh at all.

[The New Bruceski]

Enh, once they translated Imp's name I figured out what the song name had to be, even though I don't know any Welsh at all.

That's why it frustrated me that I couldn't spot the link.

[Wraith]

Well... I've been a fan of classic rock and heavy metal since I was omd enough to distinguish between musical genres, so I'm looking forward to it! ^^

Having some knowledge of 1960's movie icons wouldn't be bad, either. There's more than a few James Dean references, too.

Celyn is welsh for holly.

Buddy Holly.

See, I always understood that pun even quite early on, but now that I've really thought about it I've just realised...

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...that the climax of the story - where the Band With Rocks In is dangerously close to crashing their cart into the gorge and Imp feels the 'pull' of destiny into a firey, notorious death - is one long reference to The Day The Music Died. Quite obvious in retrospect, but I got there in the end.

[Evil DM Mark3]

While it is technically a book in the House of Death line, Death isn't a focal character for the most part.

You know, its funny. Death has a limited impact on this book, but this book has a huge impact on Death.

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YSABELL.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Should I just stick with publication order?

Depends. Do you want to avoid the early ones that are generally considered to be weaker and out is sync with the others? Would you rather read about a set of characters rather than skip between multiple unconnected ones?

Grey Wolf

[Lemmy]

Soul Music

Finally finished "Soul Music". Took me a while because I had very little free time lately.

This book is somewhat difficult to judge, IMO. The Suzan side of the story is a bit underwhelming sometimes. On one hand, it's fascinating to see Death grieving and getting more insight on how he thinks and (tries to) understand humans (these little insights were by far my favorite parts of the story).

There's however some re-threading of old ground... And starting the book with Mort and Ysabella's death left a bitter taste in my mouth... Not to mention that their apparent attempt to distance themselves and their daughter from Death felt out-of-character to me... It'd have made more sense if it had happened one generation later... With Mort and Ysabel's daughter deciding to raise her own daughter away from Death after Mort and Ysabel's accident... But I suppose that would add at least another 16 years ans possibly age the rest of the cast too much.

The actual Soul Music part of the book is not quite as touching, of course, but it's more creative, IMO. Although it felt that the humor and parody were better than the actual story, except for the very end, when we learn the truth about "music with rock in it".

I can't say it's a bad book... Quite the opposite, actually. It's a great book, very well written, with endearing characters and great humor (the countless references to classic rock made me LOL more than a few times, from a guitar-maker named Gibson, to "Pathway to Paradise" to a "road-manager" troll named asphalt... And specially a bunch of geriatric wizards being so taken by rock n' roll that they start acting like rebellious teenagers, and of course, CMOT Dibbler is hilarious as always!). The climax of the story is really cool, with DEATH riding on a motorcycle, playing an "empty chord" on the guitar to end The Music... Which only a musician can re-start.

Even so, for some reason... The book wasn't as exciting or enticing as previous ones. I enjoyed every page, and always wantee to know how the story goes, but I never felt like I couldn't wait at all to see what happens next and had no choice but keep reading, like I did with previous books.

Perhaps I'm biased because I don't like the fates of the characters of one of my favorite books ("Mort"), which was the first Discworld book that had me enthralled... Perhaps it's because I read "Lords and Ladies" not long ago and that book REALLY caught my attention... Perhaps I just expected too much hype from the book because it's about rock n' roll...

Whatever the case, I can't dispute "Soul Music's" quality, it's a great book that I throughly enjoyed, after all, but it didn't strike the same chord as some of the previous books.

Well... In any case, next is "Interesting Times", IIRC... I have no idea what it's about, but I'm eager to find out!

[Gray Mage]

Yeah, I know that feeling. For some reason Soul Music never really clicked for me either, even though it's made of parts that I've really liked. Ali in all, I think it's the weakest of the Death/Susan books.

Interesting times, on the other hand, is one I really like, since it's

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the refurn of Two Flower and Rincewind.
The silver horde in general is also quite enjoyable.

[farothel]

I think there's a logic to Soul Music.

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As Death said to Mort, he can't create life, he can only grant Extension. And clearly at one point that Extension is also gone. And it allows Terry to write more books with Susan without having to worry about her parents.

That said, Ysabel and Mort had IMO a reason to raise their daughter like this.

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She showed from an early age that she had inherited certain parts of Death's powers and they hoped that if she was raised away from all that, she would forget or they would be rendered dormant. Of course it doesn't work that way, but you can't blame them for trying.

[Lemmy]

I think there's a logic to Soul Music.

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As Death said to Mort, he can't create life, he can only grant Extension. And clearly at one point that Extension is also gone. And it allows Terry to write more books with Susan without having to worry about her parents.

Well... Even back in Mort, Death "creates life" by pressuring the gods to change Mort's fate... Sure, even with a new fate, Mort and Ysabel had to die at some point, but having them die so young felt like cheating them (and the readers) out of the happy ending from "Mort".

I understand that this way Pratchett has more freedom to write Suzan, but that could also be achieved if she were his great-granddaughter.

That said, Ysabel and Mort had IMO a reason to raise their daughter like this.

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She showed from an early age that she had inherited certain parts of Death's powers and they hoped that if she was raised away from all that, she would forget or they would be rendered dormant. Of course it doesn't work that way, but you can't blame them for trying.

That's the reason given in the book, yes... But given how they were on really good terms by the end of the book, and how both Mort and Ysabel respected (even loved) Death and knew him to essentially be a good person, despite his duty, it feels odd to have them try to distance their daughter from him just because she inherited some of his powers. It would have made more sense if it were his grandchild trying to keep his great-grandchild away, as in that case the parent would lack Mort and Ysabel's experiences of walking in Death's shoes, so to speak, and living with him... And of course there would also be a parent unrelated to Death who could see him as a malevolent entity (which we know is how most people in the Discworld picture Death, based on the shape and behavior of the new Death in "Reaper Man").
But skipping a generation would perhaps age the rest of the cast too much... Although I'm not sure PTerry even cares about keeping track of the characters' ages.

[Evil DM Mark3]

Well... Even back in Mort, Death "creates life" by pressuring the gods to change Mort's fate...

No, he doesn't actually. During Mort and Death's fight the hour glass for the Duke gets broken. His life is cut short, meaning that there is a certain amount of life just, loose. That must have been a pain to clear up, but it is also the best way to allow Mort to keep on living. It may also have been patched up with Isabelle's per-Reaper Man rules.

[Fyraltari]

Mort and Ysabel weren’t afraid that DEATH’s powers would turn Susan evil. They were afraid it would make her lonely and unhappy. That it would cheat her of a normal life. And they aren’t exactly wrong.

As for their death cheating the reader of their happy ending, they had an happy ending. But happy endings are only truly endings when they, well, end. Mort and Ysabel were happy together until the end, that’s the only thing that matters. The inevitability of death and that it never comes when it is convienient is something of a theme in the Discworld books.

That reminds me, The Last Hero is a sequel to Interesting Times, so you should definitely read it (sometimes after The Last Continent) even though it is not necessarily in the list of Discworld books.

[Lemmy]

No, he doesn't actually. During Mort and Death's fight the hour glass for the Duke gets broken. His life is cut short, meaning that there is a certain amount of life just, loose. That must have been a pain to clear up, but it is also the best way to allow Mort to keep on living. It may also have been patched up with Isabelle's per-Reaper Man rules.

Yeah... Bur Death also turns Mort's hourglass upside down. And I may be misremembering, but I recall something about Mort saying something along the lines of "I thought you couldn't change fate" and Death answering that he can't, but knows who can do it and "asked" them to do so... Isn't that how Mort becomes Duke and unites the kingdom through diplomacy, rather than conquest? And when Mort questions how long he's foinf to live, Death says "Math isn't all that it's cut out to be".

Mort and Ysabel weren’t afraid that DEATH’s powers would turn Susan evil. They were afraid it would make her lonely and unhappy. That it would cheat her of a normal life. And they aren’t exactly wrong.

As for their death cheating the reader of their happy ending, they had an happy ending. But happy endings are only truly endings when they, well, end. Mort and Ysabel were happy together until the end, that’s the only thing that matters. The inevitability of death and that it never comes when it is convienient is something of a theme in the Discworld books.

That reminds me, The Last Hero is a sequel to Interesting Times, so you should definitely read it (sometimes after The Last Continent) even though it is not necessarily in the list of Discworld books.

I get all that... It still left a bitter taste in my mouth, and I still think it's somwhat out-of-character... Mort and Ysabell were happy despite their connection to Death. What made Ysabell miserable wasn't being Death's adoptive daughter, but being stuck in a world that never changes or advances.

I get the logic, I really do... And it's not inconceivable or harmful to the story, but it does feel a bit forced (or, at least, unpleasant).

Still... Even ignoring that, for some reason "Soul Music" didn't quite "click" with me like some othet Discworld books did. It's a great book, of course... It just didn't have me constantly anxious to read the next page.

- - -

I'm reading every Discworld book in publication order (except the "Science of Discworld" books, which I don't have, but intend to acquire soon... Then I think I'll read them when I finish the main line, unless there's a reason to do otherwise).

[dehro]

I'm reading every Discworld book in publication order (except the "Science of Discworld" books, which I don't have, but intend to acquire soon... Then I think I'll read them when I finish the main line, unless there's a reason to do otherwise).

they don't affect the other books, so they can be read either respecting publication order or when you're done with the others. I don't remember them containing spoilers, but I wouldn't read them ahead of other books, in order of publication, just to play it safe

[Rodin]

Still... Even ignoring that, for some reason "Soul Music" didn't quite "click" with me like some othet Discworld books did. It's a great book, of course... It just didn't have me constantly anxious to read the next page.

I wouldn't worry about it, because I'm the same. It's one of the books I revisit less often than the rest of the series, for exactly that reason - the main plot just never clicked for me despite there being a ton of good jokes.

[Corvus]

The thing I have with the ending of Soul Music is

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that the whole Susan/Imp thing goes nowhere. I don't think he is even mentioned again.

And meanwhile Susan then goes off chasing after the new God of Time.

[Evil DM Mark3]

I may have accidentally head-canoned. I haven't read Soul Music in ages, not a favourate.

Interesting times is, interesting. In the upper half of the lower half of the books for me, not bad by any stretch but also not one I go back to much. Although The Silver Horde is really fun, it mostly feels like a return to CoM & LF, which I didn't enjoy much.

Did you read Eric? It sometimes isn't included in the lists.

[Wraith]

I think that Interesting Times tends to be one of the better "Rincewind" stories, however Rincewind stories are very different to other Discworld books.

They're closer to the traditional "fantasy adventure" stories that people like Granny Weatherwax and Susan Sto Helit spend a lot of time deconstructing; Rincewind is more a parody of fantasy, rather than Sam Vimes who is more like a satire.

I like Rincewind a lot; He's easily in my top 3 characters, vying closely for the #1 spot. But if you don't like him as much as I do, I can see why Interesting Times wouldn't have such a strong appeal - it's an "adventure" with "heroes" and "villains", and can be underwhelming compared to the very intimate, yet weirdly cosmic, scale stories like Soul Music that came just before.

[Cozzer]

Interesting Times is my favorite Rincewind book (tied with The Last Hero), but I don't really like Rincewind books very much, despite adoring Rincewind as a character.

Regarding Soul Music, I agree with most people: solid book, but not one of my favorites.