OOTS #1126 - The Discussion Thread

[Ornithologist]

So, horrible idea number one:

What if Sigdi had to choose between Durkon and his dad on the resurrection spell?

That would both explain everything and make me feel terrible for a long while.

[Morquard]

If she had spent 25k on True Resurrection material components (diamonds), that would not count as a donation to the temple. Even if the temple sold to you the material as a double-dipping commercial process, that's still a regular purchase, not a donation. The message, I think, is that she could have had the resurrection cast, but chose to donate the funds to the temple instead, not that the resurrection failed.

The temple might require 25k gp in donations, so they then would use 25k worth of diamonds from their own stash to perform a miracle. They just call it differently that's all.

I thought Durkula was Lawful Evil and agreed to let Durkon's family live. This... does not seem to be him upholding his end of that bargain.

When I read this I thought "Wait, if he now reveals that Dad is still alive, that would put him on the protected list, so when he then shows up..." ... but I reread the comic in question and the deal is only for the baby's life. So that doesn't really work either.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The temple might require 25k gp in donations, so they then would use 25k worth of diamonds from their own stash to perform a miracle. They just call it differently that's all.

No, that is not "calling it differently". That is the opposite of a donation. The Temple would make exactly 0 profit from such a transaction (or even a -1530 loss, if the cleric still needs to be paid), which is not the kind of thing that gets you put in a golden plate of generous contributors.

Grey Wolf

[Mikemical]

I'm going to venture a guess that it's actually a life insurance for Durkon, in case he died so he would be resurrected because his mom didn't want to risk losing him as well.

[Ghosty]

Fun Fact: 25,000 gp is exactly the price of a True Resurrection.

So I assume Durkon's father actually is alive? Who could he be, because I assume his reveal will change something there.

I thought the Giant was on record as stating he really doesn't like True Resurrection? To the point of that it might as well not exist in StickWorld? After all, Laurin and Tarquin seemed pretty confident that Nale wasn't coming back, blood on the pleather wrappings or not. 17th level clerics are probably pretty hard to find though, even if 25k in components aren't.

True Rez existing does seem like the narrative reason though for her correcting Durkon that it was 25k, not 20k.

Streamofthesky, at this point I'm just rolling with the Order's constantly failed saves. Treat it like how most movies handle guns, and stop counting how many times the hero gets to shoot without reloading. I think the story more than makes up for it.

[Yendor]

I may be in error, but I believe the appropriate proclamation is, "Totally called it."

[fishhead202]

Long time reader, first time poster:

Like many, I've been trying to figure out what the big Durkon reveal would be. Narratively, it has to have some effect, be it real world, or inside Durkon's head. My first thought was that it had to do with the location, something like:

This room automatically opens to the sun at a set time, and Durkon had made the memories appear to lure them all there and trap them. The $25K, possibly alive father makes me think this isn't right.

BUT: Who cares if dad's alive? If he's going to save the day, why hasn't he? Whatever the reveal is going to be, there has to be a trigger, and what I can't figure out is why that trigger hasn't happened.

Dad's alive? Why would he wait until now to help?
Durkon has something to break Vamp's concentration? Why has he waited until now?

I think there's a lot of great theories floating around here, but I'm stuck on why the trigger hasn't happened yet. I figure it has to be time/place specific? OR (and I just thought of this), somehow Durkon seeing the baby is what started this. Durkon realized he was a father, which for some reason makes this memory important. Why having a kid, or being a father makes this memory important?

The kid is Durkon's dad reincarnated? Grasping at straws, but I think the baby is tied to the memory somehow.

[pendell]

I thought the Giant was on record as stating he really doesn't like True Resurrection? To the point of that it might as well not exist in StickWorld? After all, Laurin and Tarquin seemed pretty confident that Nale wasn't coming back, blood on the pleather wrappings or not. 17th level clerics are probably pretty hard to find though, even if 25k in components aren't.

True Rez existing does seem like the narrative reason though for her correcting Durkon that it was 25k, not 20k.

Streamofthesky, at this point I'm just rolling with the Order's constantly failed saves. Treat it like how most movies handle guns, and stop counting how many times the hero gets to shoot without reloading. I think the story more than makes up for it.

The failed saves are only important if they make a difference to the outcome, and I don't think they do.

By author fiat, I'm absolutely certain that the OOTS will continue on to the next gate, and so Durkon* will not destroy the world. This isn't a game, this is a cut scene. The outcome is predetermined, so successes or failures are simply icing on the cake, to make the storytelling more interesting.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I thought the Giant was on record as stating he really doesn't like True Resurrection? To the point of that it might as well not exist in StickWorld? After all, Laurin and Tarquin seemed pretty confident that Nale wasn't coming back, blood on the pleather wrappings or not. 17th level clerics are probably pretty hard to find though, even if 25k in components aren't.

The spell probably exists, in the sense that it is a core spell, and OotS runs on core+. But because it is a narrative-breaker, the Giant's comment suggests that for reasons the spell won't make an appearance to assist the Order (it could till be used by their enemies, since they get to use all the cool toys, since giving them advantages the heroes don't have makes for better stories, although given that the ABD wasn't able to use it suggests no-one will).

As you point out, the limitation is the 17th level clerics, of which we know exactly one, and who is unlikely to help. But the spell itself exists, and it is possible that at some point in the past there was a cleric of Thor or Freya or Odin that was high enough level to cast it... and yet Durkon's mom still chose to let her husband, dead honorably and thus having escaped Hel's clutches, stay dead.

Or, because we don't know the whole story, it might be a whole lot more complicated than that. My money is on this, right now.

Grey Wolf

[Sky_Schemer]

I wouldn't say any action, myself, but given how vociferously Hilgya defended bringing her baby into an active combat situation over leaving him somewhere safer, I would have thought "voluntarily hand over your baby" might have garnered another save. (Although, of course, it's possible that it did and she failed. I'm not finding this development implausible, myself.)

Up until now, there's not really anything that Hilgya's done that has been against her nature as a cleric of Loki.

It's been 4 panels since Hilgya saw exactly what the plan was for Kudzu, and 1 panel since he started crying. This last development may very well, and very reasonably, be the thing that gives her a new save.

[WindStruck]

And then the next comic title will be "Deadbeat Dad".

[Kashem]

I get it... Durkon's plan must be to deafen the vampire with the loudest DUN DUN DUNNNN ever!

Elan will be the one to break domination, because it would be completely against his nature NOT to shout "DUN DUN DUNNNNN" at the top of his lungs, during a key moment, even if he has NO IDEA WHY, and Durkon* will command him halfway through to stop.
(See comic 968)

Rich, if this was actually your plan, please do not change it. It would make my year. Likelihood of that is < 0.1%, but still.

Really though, Hilgya will break domination by being ordered to let go of her crying baby when she instinctually tries to comfort him.

Also, is the theory here basically now that the two fighters are just pure meat-shielding this combat, or that Roy's sword is offering such healing that he is actually able to take this much beating?
That said, Gotta hand it to the Giant, he is REALLY keeping the suspense up to MAX right now.

[137beth]

Well, at least the baby isn't dead (yet)! I honestly have no idea how this memory is going to help the Order win.

[Snails]

The obvious question now is, why on Earth would a newlywed man and father-to-be pass up a second chance at life with his wife and child? Especially after his widow nearly bankrupted herself trying to bring him back?

That is one of the many obvious questions. Why mom still lacks an arm and why they live in poverty are questions, too.

But the obvious answers to your question would be:
(1) No, reason on Earth. But a good enough reason in the afterlife. ;)
(2) He is not an eligible candidate for True Resurrection because his soul is unavailable, meaning he is soul trapped in some fashion or he is still alive.
(3) Mom never tried to have him True Resurrected.

As for #3, well, there could be all kinds of crazy but believable reasons. Like Durkon's biological father provided the money, which could not be reasonably used to bring back her husband as it would raise uncomfortable and dishonor-provoking questions, so the cash was gotten rid of the most honorable-ish way possible.

[Elenna]

Greg is an *******. But we knew that already.

Hilgya seems to have super low WS for a cleric. I'm sure she got to roll some saves from being ordered to hand her baby to the person she came to kill. But we knew that already too.

Kudos to the Giant for managing to ratchet the tension up even higher.

That would be a bad idea though. ;)

Also, I had to look it up, I thought Antilife shell was going to harm those living in it. It doesn't. Just prevents the others from coming in.

I think Greg also used it at the Godsmoot, which I expect is why Rich didn't explain it. But that was a while ago in real time.

[godsflunky]

Hang on. According to Uncle Squeaky, Sigdi had some of Durkon's dad's hair. It's buried in the tomb. So why would there even need to be a True Resurrection?

[/non-AD&D-player question]

[Peelee]

While the 25000 gp is pretty clearly implying a True Resurrection

Wheeeeeeee

True Resurrection is a terrible, narrative-wrecking spell that should not exist, as it has no real purpose for players who die in battle (as they can almost always be returned via simple Resurrection) and only ever comes in to play to undo plot points. I prefer to simply treat it as "not available" to everyone, and I don't want to waste any panel time explaining why.

[Derian]

Hey, Giant, a question.

Why is the vampire Durkon arnor-clad in his mind, while he chooses ribes over armor? Is it just a holdover from when he first awoke or something?

I'm certainly not the Giant, but if I had to offer a guess, it's probably something to do with Greg being the embodiment of Durkon's lowest moment. If memory serves, he was robed when he was thrown out of dwarven lands, and even when he was armored in the flashback, perhaps he still thought of himself as an acolyte instead of an adventurer. So Greg naturally has more affinity for robes instead.

Just a thought.

[Perficio]

If we're raising the idea that maybe Durkon's dad was alive the whole time, it seems pretty plausible to that she went to get him resurrected - only to be told that he was actually alive, but unable to return. That she needed to live as though he was dead. Maybe a guilty trouble secret, maybe doing secret important things for dwarvenkind. Something that the high priest (or any other high enough priests in that time) knew about but the average dwarf couldn't. No wasted diamonds, the money put instead to the church of Thor.

But "actually still alive" is not enough of a reveal. Sigdri says that Durkon didn't know everything, in a way that suggests that he doesn't know is something very very important - to why they lived the lives they did, as he grew up, why she didn't say anything. And given the context in which we're learning about it, presumably something with that prophecy. Was she bribing for some protection for Durkon?

[Thurulian]

it seems like Durkula is about to screw himself royally. also havnt seen Hailey in the last few strips maybe shes going to break the domination and then break Elan out, regardless once one of the order breaks the domination it will be a swirly eye removal chain reaction.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Hang on. According to Uncle Squeaky, Sigdi had some of Durkon's dad's hair. It's buried in the tomb. So why would there even need to be a True Resurrection?

[/non-AD&D-player question]

The lock of hair would've needed to have been part of the body at death. Not cut off earlier as a memento.

And it seems like forever since I busted this meme out.

"You make Baby Jesus Kudzu cry!"

[Askthepizzaguy]

I am grateful for the double size update, Giant. Will be getting Good Deeds in August for my birthday.

Just gonna keep munching the popcorn and wait and see what happens inside the antilife shell...

[Keltest]

Hang on. According to Uncle Squeaky, Sigdi had some of Durkon's dad's hair. It's buried in the tomb. So why would there even need to be a True Resurrection?

[/non-AD&D-player question]

The body part in question needs to have been part of the corpse at the time of death for it to count.

Also, unimportant, but it stopped being AD&D with 3rd edition and became just D&D.

[RblDiver]

Point of order (of the stick >.>): Per http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antilifeShell.htm, indeed it says that antilife shell doesn't harm those inside, BUT it also says "Forcing an abjuration barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay collapses the barrier." Given that there are two humanoids inside the barrier, I say that it should collapse next round.

[Peelee]

The body part in question needs to have been part of the corpse at the time of death for it to count.

Also, unimportant, but it stopped being AD&D with 3rd edition and became just D&D.

I won Dungeons and Dragons! And it was advanced! That guy was streets ahead.

[Snails]

Point of order (of the stick >.>): Per http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antilifeShell.htm, indeed it says that antilife shell doesn't harm those inside, BUT it also says "Forcing an abjuration barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay collapses the barrier." Given that there are two humanoids inside the barrier, I say that it should collapse next round.

No. The intended meaning here is that you cannot push or force movement with an antilife shell. Those who so happen to be in the antilife shell, because they either were there when it was created or DDoored in or whatever, do not affect the antilife shell in any way -- it only matters to them if they leave.

[Vingelot]

Greg's suspiciously specific denial that the memory isn't distracting him is very interesting, though. That he felt the need to specify that the memory was not distracting him despite no one else knowing that he was watching a memory seems to be very meaningful.

Probably it was said for Durkon's benefit. Out loud because he actually was distracted, by the memory and/or the sword.

Well, I'm sure Durkon will eventually succeed magnificently, because so many panels spent on the memory without awesome effect would instantly break Elan's heart!

[Imerias]

For me there are several issues with idea of Durkon's father having been resurrected. In comic 333, Durkon lists his pappy as being buried in the ancestral tomb. If Tenrin was resurrected, he probably didn't run off as this would be dishonorable and he likely wouldn't be buried with honor in his ancestral tomb. If he died again later it just feels like some bizarre over-complication considering the secrecy around his first death. (Also I just feel like Squeaky wouldn't have been able to pass up a "which time?" joke when Durkon asked him about his father's death).

[Keltest]

Point of order (of the stick >.>): Per http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antilifeShell.htm, indeed it says that antilife shell doesn't harm those inside, BUT it also says "Forcing an abjuration barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay collapses the barrier." Given that there are two humanoids inside the barrier, I say that it should collapse next round.

The name "shell" suggests that the interior of the spell is not part of the spell's area. More to the point, that would render it completely unusable by the vast majority of PC clerics, so I doubt it pushes existing life out of the area.

[RblDiver]

No. The intended meaning here is that you cannot push or force movement with an antilife shell. Those who so happen to be in the antilife shell, because they either were there when it was created or DDoored in or whatever, do not affect the antilife shell in any way -- it only matters to them if they leave.

Ah, I see, so if he were to advance in an attempt to keep out Roy, that would collapse it. I see.