Would You Be My New Best Friends? (Doctor Who redux)

[factotum]

Though it's also just so heavy. Where's the just fun episode. This season has been amazing, just not fun.

You have just put your finger on exactly why I'm not liking this season much. Just like Capaldi's first season, they seem to have forgotten how to inject any humour or lightness into the situation. When you have the likes of Bradley Walsh in your cast list that's actually a pretty impressive achievement!

[Devonix]

You have just put your finger on exactly why I'm not liking this season much. Just like Capaldi's first season, they seem to have forgotten how to inject any humour or lightness into the situation. When you have the likes of Bradley Walsh in your cast list that's actually a pretty impressive achievement!

I know. I mean the episodes have been great. The higher production values. Well acted guest stars. I mean DAMN Prem, Umbreen, and Manish were frikkin amazing.

Hell they're actually using time travel for a good purpose. Exploring major events in history and not just tossing around famous names without a connection to the events. They're using Time travel to actually teach the audience about real history.

The episodes have been wonderful but... not Fun.

[BWR]

I would have preferred the writers to make pure historicals if they want to explore human history. If all they are going to just slap a little alien/time-travel nonsense in there in a way that not only has no effect on the outcome of the story but raises a host of questions about how stupid it is, it just lessens the final result.
I'm also disappointed to see that 'the sonic' remains a magic wand that is waved about half the time instead of the Doctor being able to identify stuff on sight or with a little tinkering with her hands.
Lastly, I'm getting tired of the "I was once a man" inserts. They've acknowledged that it happened, leave it at that and focus on the Doctoring.

On the good side, a nice little piece of drama with good characters. Graham is the best companion in ages in his accepting, supportive way. The best since Captain Jack.
I still would have preferred if they killed off Ryan and left Grace on the show, but c'est la vie.

[Devonix]

I would have preferred the writers to make pure historicals if they want to explore human history. If all they are going to just slap a little alien/time-travel nonsense in there in a way that not only has no effect on the outcome of the story but raises a host of questions about how stupid it is, it just lessens the final result.
I'm also disappointed to see that 'the sonic' remains a magic wand that is waved about half the time instead of the Doctor being able to identify stuff on sight or with a little tinkering with her hands.
Lastly, I'm getting tired of the "I was once a man" inserts. They've acknowledged that it happened, leave it at that and focus on the Doctoring.

On the good side, a nice little piece of drama with good characters. Graham is the best companion in ages in his accepting, supportive way. The best since Captain Jack.
I still would have preferred if they killed off Ryan and left Grace on the show, but c'est la vie.

I'd say the opposite is true with the screwdriver this season. It's hardly done anything other than open doors. It keeps failing forcing her to make something or use her head.

The problem is that over the years it became so important that they have to handwave a reason they cannot use it rather than simply just not using it. Or else people will complain about them simply not bringing it out.

[Fyraltari]

It was good.
I like that they're doing the whole travelling with the Doctor but going home too in parallel bit.

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Ohhhh baby brother is her grand-dad!

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I got confused too at first but clearly no. They see the watch on Prem's wrist as he hold's Manish's head. Neither are Yaz's Grandad, he wasn't in the episode that's why she never recognizes him. Umbreen remarried sometime later, maybe not before Sheffield even. She said the watch was Yaz's grandfather's because she did not want to tell the full story yet.

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The aliens felt kind of shoehorned in. I would have preferred if it had actually been full-historical with the gang trying to figure out why the timeline seemed so messed up. I liked the reveal of what the aliens were actually about, but it does make me wonder why they were being such jerks previously. I feel I might need a rewatch to see how well their actions hold together. It's also the third "they're not actually evil, just misunderstood!" twist in a row, so I could do with a change of pace there.

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Yeah, by the second time we saw them hunched over a dead body but not killing I guessed where this was going.

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Graham continues to be amazing. I sort of want to see an episode which is Wilfred and Graham, even if the episode winds up being a clip-show like recap of their experiences with the Doctor.

Oh man now, I want it too!

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I think I know how the Daleks will work into the season arch - apart from Tim Shaw, our true antagonists have been ordinary people who've given over to fear or hatred. In Epsiode 1 there was Tim, so no go. In Episode 2 we had the spooky bandages, but the real antagonist was the constant threat of the racers turning on each-other and the real climax was them joining forces. Episode 3 had racism. Episode 4 had the spiders, but the climactic showdown was the ordinary man whose lack of empathy and ambition made him a deadly force (even if he wound up doing the right thing the show made a point of saying he did it for the wrong reason). Episode 5 had the hospital itself trying to blow them up out of fear of a misunderstood creature. This episode had the roaming mobs. I see the Daleks showing up in one or two future episodes as shadowy manipulators (similar to NuWho season 1) or just being a continuation on the theme of hating others being the true enemy.

I like the way you think.

The only thing this season has lacked so far is a foe worthy of the Doctor.

Yup.

[Jeivar]

Just like Capaldi's first season, they seem to have forgotten how to inject any humour or lightness into the situation. When you have the likes of Bradley Walsh in your cast list that's actually a pretty impressive achievement!

I think you're forgetting Robots of Sherwood.

[Ebon_Drake]

I really do love that they're distancing themselves from the " Superhero " Doctor. This just FEELS more like Doctor Who in a way it hasn't been in years.

Though it's also just so heavy. Where's the just fun episode. This season has been amazing, just not fun.

I mean, the very next episode is called Kerblam! and is about EEEEVIL Amazon, featuring a Johnny Cab-looking robot and Sinister Businesswoman #795. If it's high camp knockabout Who you're craving then that should hit the spot?

E: I can't wait to look like a right idiot when it turns out 50% of the plot is on-the-nose commentary about how "actually, regular Amazon is already Evil Amazon!" and the other 50% is Graham mourning his dead wife.

[factotum]

I think you're forgetting Robots of Sherwood.

I'm not--if you look back on the threads on this forum I'm sure I mentioned somewhere that was one of the only episodes of Capaldi's first season I actually enjoyed. One episode does not a series make, though!

[Darth Ultron]

Though it's also just so heavy. Where's the just fun episode. This season has been amazing, just not fun.

I predict that when the Doctor gets pregnant and has the Timeless Child....THAT will be a fun and funny episode.

[Androgeus]

I predict that when the Doctor gets pregnant and has the Timeless Child....THAT will be a fun and funny episode.

This is a worse ‘theory’ than even Rani theories

[ImperiousLeader]

So does the Doctor really need a villain?

Well, to be clear, I think the success and general quality of this season has proven that the Doctor doesn't necessarily need a villain. And I'm not asking for a fist fight, one of the things I like most about the Doctor is that they out think their opponents.

But I am interested in antagonists that can challenge the Doctor. Look, the Slitheen were not what I'd call great villains, but I still remember that dinner between the 9th Doctor and the Slitheen woman in "Boomtown".

It's a minor thing, really. This season is shaping up to be one of my favourites.

[SuperPanda]

I think I agree that the Doctor doesn't need a villain but would serious benefit from a foil that she can play against. They've had her playing against preconceptions, narrow world views, and fear of the unknown - which is rather understandable when you consider that she's the first female doctor and the writers are aware that they are up against preconceptions, narrow world views, and fear of the other.

I'd like to see that personified in an upcoming episode. The next episode doesn't look likely to give the doctor a personified foil so hopefully its the one after that.

The Daleks would fit within the theme and I expect them to crop up in the season finale as the ultimate example of narrow world view - but an episode similar Midnight would very much fit in the current series thematically as would something similar to the Family of Blood two parter.

Here's my 100% wrong wild guess:

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The Timeless child turns out to be the doctor's son/daughter (Susan's father/mother) who had survived the time-war through some handwavium. After seeing the destruction of Galifrey.
This plot line is introduced in episode as the third to last episode a bit where Ryan misunderstands the son/daughter's anger at the Doctor abandoning Galifrey as the Doctor having been a deadbeat parent. Yas sides with the Doctor and gets the whole story but Ryan winds up (temporarily) joining with the timeless child. Graham goes with Ryan to look after him even though Ryan doesn't want that.

In the following episode is a Doctor Light) the Timeless Child is trying to disrupt human history, but in a way Ryan won't really protest at first. The purpose is to interfere in the Doctor's timeline so as to prevent the destruction of Galifrey. Part way through Ryan starts having second thoughts and eventually has to choose between saving Graham and something selfish. He choses Graham and togethe they spoil the villian's plot - but only mostly.

In the final episode the villain realizes they done screwed up - their actions saved some of the Daleks but didn't prevent the loss of Galifrey.
They try to handle the situation on their own but get outmatched. The Doctor is then left to clean up the Daleks and save the villain - a all around heartfelt moment is had and Graham finally gets the fist bump he's been trying to get all season.

[Fyraltari]

Am I the only one who thinks the Timeless Child is the Doctor themself ?

[Thufir]

You have just put your finger on exactly why I'm not liking this season much. Just like Capaldi's first season, they seem to have forgotten how to inject any humour or lightness into the situation. When you have the likes of Bradley Walsh in your cast list that's actually a pretty impressive achievement!

I'm not sure which series you've been watching, but I've been watching the one where the Doctor (of candyfloss, LEGO and hope) has a custard cream dispenser in her newly remodeled TARDIS; where in two consecutive episodes she's made uplifting speeches about hope; where a drunk man threw bits of his takeaway salad at an alien soldier, the Doctor asked if a famous American businessman was Ed Sheeran, and the Doctor fed a bomb to a cute and hungry Stitch look-alike before launching it cheerfully into space while in another room an alien baby was delivered with the assistance of a man who proudly declares he has seen every episode of Call the Midwife (but always looked away at the squeamish bits). The one where the hard hitting historical episode was rounded off with the message that although things have been hard, they get better.
That's all off the top of my head. There's been plenty of humour and lightness for my liking.

On the latest episode, my reaction was sort of the reverse of last week. Last week I wasn't initially moved but was enthused about watching again given the choice and thus warmed greatly to the episode; this week my opinion may relax to a more moderate one over time but my immediate response was that Demons of the Punjab is everything Doctor Who should be.

Edit @^: No, that was my immediate thought as well, but I haven't been talking about it because I have no real speculation or theories, I'm just waiting to see what comes up.

[Aotrs Commander]

So... I haven't watched any episodes since the Rosa Park one, because I found myself sufficiently unispired by the trailers (and what I've heard) that I was at the point where I realised that i would be forcing mself to watch it.

Doesn't, from the sound of it, seem like I am missing anything, since from what you guys are saying, we havent had any... Bad guys? worth anything. (And I always found the historical episodes, especially when it was just generic monster-of-the-week to be pretty bleh.) I mean, the Doctor and the companions are fine (but only fine), but the stories... Just aren't remotely appealing to me. As it seems like we're not getting an arc at all this season (please correct me if I'm wrong) and it seems increasingly unlike we're getting any recurring villains... It's like having a season full of filler. And not even good filler, like in Naruto, where it's the established character [Richard]ing around.

Aside from episode two, have we even left Earth this season yet?



Anyone want to sell me on anything we've had so far that might change my mind, or should I just write this season off as "emphatically not for Bleakbane?"



Wait, we're not even getting a Christmas special?

Wow.

That's... Remarkable depressing.

[Jeivar]

I just want to add my voice to those that like the low-stakes stories. To date Thirteen has saved some random depressed chump, two hardscrabble race contestants, a few people in a hotel, a few people on a hospital ship, and I think that's actually it.

Epic stakes are all well and good, but when they're happening all the time it loses impact.

[Fyraltari]

So... I haven't watched any episodes since the Rosa Park one, because I found myself sufficiently unispired by the trailers (and what I've heard) that I was at the point where I realised that i would be forcing mself to watch it.

Doesn't, from the sound of it, seem like I am missing anything, since from what you guys are saying, we havent had any... Bad guys? worth anything. (And I always found the historical episodes, especially when it was just generic monster-of-the-week to be pretty bleh.) I mean, the Doctor and the companions are fine (but only fine), but the stories... Just aren't remotely appealing to me. As it seems like we're not getting an arc at all this season (please correct me if I'm wrong) and it seems increasingly unlike we're getting any recurring villains... It's like having a season full of filler. And not even good filler, like in Naruto, where it's the established character [Richard]ing around.

Aside from episode two, have we even left Earth this season yet?



Anyone want to sell me on anything we've had so far that might change my mind, or should I just write this season off as "emphatically not for Bleakbane?"

Last week's episode was in space, basically an Alien plot.

They are focusing on character arcs this season, it would seem.

The lack of "good vilain" is less a complaint than it seems. Fear of the Other seem to be the real ennemy this season.

[LeSwordfish]

This season hasn't been the 10/10 I was foolishly hyped for, but I'd say it's been solidly 6/10 with two 8/10 episodes (Rosa and Demons). For me, that beats out every Capaldi season save the last, so I'm at least broadly happy. I still agree that something's missing that would make it really good, though.

[Darth Ultron]

This is a worse ‘theory’ than even Rani theories

Oh...wait...it just came to me: Rani will be the Timeless's Child Other Mom! Doctor Who: My Two Moms!

Am I the only one who thinks the Timeless Child is the Doctor themself ?

Eh, yea, that is a bit dull.

Look...Lady Doctor....first time in forever years that a ''Timeless Child" is mentioned. Lady+Child= Mom!

But I am interested in antagonists that can challenge the Doctor. Look, the Slitheen were not what I'd call great villains, but I still remember that dinner between the 9th Doctor and the Slitheen woman in "Boomtown".

Well, that was more just a good opponent moment. Not really a ''villain" .

Of course it's hard to have complex real villains on a Kidz show too...

Anyone want to sell me on anything we've had so far that might change my mind, or should I just write this season off

You got it just about right.

Most of the shows have been to a small target audience...and they love them. For everyone else...the shows are a bit bland.

Most episodes have followed the pattern of lots of character drama stuff, an alien for no reason, and the Doctor as a guest star. It's the multi space and cultural hour, with sometimes guest star The Doctor. It's going for the same target audience as The West Wing, Black-ish, Supergirl or the View...if you like shows like that, then the Lady Doctor is made for you.

[LeSwordfish]

Oh, and I think the idea that this series hasn't had frivolous moments isn't right. They had a whole episode of Stitch and MPreg.

[dps]

So Ryan got the Rosa historical episode, Yas gets the Demons of Punjab historical episode....so we should be getting a Gram historical episode too, right?

The episode:

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It was an OK episode....

Things That Don't Make Sense:

*So the TARDIS locked on to when the watch broke....but then landed like a day or so before that so the show could have lots of drama?

*1947 Asia sure seemed primitive? I wonder how accurate that is? Or was it just way, way, way, way out in the county?

*So when the Holy Man dies, everyone including the Doctor who is always curious and Yas who should have cared a bit more and is a cop too, don't seem to care very much. And no one even looks at the body?

*Manish shot the Holy Man, right? And everyone, including the Doctor missed the wound? How about the people that prepared the body?

*Guess the Wild Border Lands of Asia have no law enforcement what so ever?

*So they all live in a place with no phone, no lights and no motorcars.....yet they have a radio? Wonder what they plug it into? The house looks very remote to have electricity. Was that a battery powered radio?

*And they sure got a good radio signal....but guess it could have been AM or shortwave, right?

*So....why is the Doctor wrong about the Thijarians ? The Doctor took ''all know lifeforms 101" in school? So....why did the history book not have the ''ah the Thijarians were assassins until Earth year 1940 when they became ''funeral crashes".

*Wonder why the Thijarians don't try and stay more hidden?

*So..have/are the Thijarians still on Earth in 2018? Still harvesting souls to watch and put in their glowly thing?

*After the Thijarians explain hey are just funeral crashes, they show the Doctor how the Holy Man dies....Manish kills him.....and the Doctor just keeps this information secret? Is there a reason that she does not come back to the house and say ''Manish is a evil, cold blooded killer"?

*How exactly does the Doctor...or any doctor..be a wedding official? Is this a law or tradition from the area that doctors can marry people? Is there no paperwork? Some sort of official stamp from the government? Or is this some sort of common law marriage?

*So holy man death and ''alien demons" around....and everyone is like ''on with the marriage"? Seems a bit odd?

*Did no one else in all the world get invited to the wedding?

*Of course this episode has the classic time travel problem of changing the past. Here, the Doctor does not want to change the past...but they could? So it's not a ''fixed point"? That have to choose to let history happen in one way......but why? And why does it not matter other times? Is it only because it was not aliens?

*So the big subtext here is People have Secrets and You Might Never Know a Person For Real. Ok, that is fine. Except..er...does that make Yas sneaking around behind grandmas back right? Does a person get to say ''I will just dig up their secret history if they like it or not as I demand to know?"

*So grandma does not remember, ahem, the day her first husband violently died(and the holy man too) , demons popped up on her wedding day...and maybe most of all the four suspicious English people that just came out of nowhere...one that looks/looked amazingly exactly like her granddaughter? Should not have grandma seen Yas at about..oh 16 ish or so...and been like ''Great Ghost!" you were at my first wedding!

*And at the end Grandma is all like ''do you want to know about the watch?" And Yas is like ''nah". It's a sweet moment and one to grow on....but it's false. Yas knows the story, so she is saying "don't bother grandma, I shuck behind your back and dug up your secret". Yas is NOT saying "that is ok grandma, a woman's heart is a deep ocean of secrets...tell me when your ready and if you feel like it." So...what message is the show sending? You should dig up dirt on people and discover their secrets?

Final-C, again it was an OK episode....but not a Doctor Who episode. Again, the Doctor is just a guest star. The story was good enough...and could have been on just about any TV show. But it was not a Doctor Who story.

Not going to respond to each point, but I thought that

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things looked if anything almost too contemporary for the India-Pakistan border in 1947, rather than primitive. A bit too sparsely populated, though.

And I saw no indication that they had electricity, so yeah, probably a battery-operated radio. Could have even been something like a crystal radio, but they probably wouldn't have gotten that good a signal with a crystal set.

[Androgeus]

Wait, we're not even getting a Christmas special?

Wow.

That's... Remarkable depressing.

Urgh, No. A rumour with basically no source from The Friggin’ Mirror said that it’s going to be moved to New Year’s Day. There will be a special. We know that the director will be Wayne Yip (previously directed The Lie of the Land and Empress of Mars, which aren’t anything to write home about, but did direct the only good episodes of Class). I think an actor has also been cast for Ryan’s Dad, but I’m too lazy to dig through reddit for the source on that one.

[Rodin]

Episode was quite good, if a bit depressing for much of it. The one big problem I had was:

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That the aliens seemed to only be present to give the Doctor and the others something to keep them out of the way while Yaz observed this moment in history. The twist was immediately, blindingly obvious - that these assassins didn't do it. I was expecting there to be someone else about fiddling with things, but once we had the reveal that the former assassins were observers it was again immediately obvious that the brother did it.

Either there needed to be something more going on (to give the Doctor a way to actually impact the story) or there needed to be less in order to put the spotlight even more on Yaz.

Still basically a quibble, really. I too have been liking the lower stakes in general.

On the Timeless Child, if this were Moffat still my theory would be "It's Clara! Again! Because you all love Clara right? LOVE HER!!!"

As it stands, not going to speculate. There's just too much we don't know, especially since the new crew seem to be enforcing a level of separation with the previous showrunners.

[SuperPanda]

Am I the only one who thinks the Timeless Child is the Doctor themself ?

Honestly this is what I expect to be true as well but it is fun to make wild guesses - especially when you are pretty sure that they are just silly guesses.

[lahome]

It's my honor to be your friendly. Add me please.

[Kitten Champion]

I just think it's a shame we can't have any kind of straight historical episode without the usual weirdness intruding on things, which I believe they did waaaaaaaaay back near the beginning of the show. That's not really a critique of this episode specifically so much as Doctor Who as a whole has a box that it's confined within that I don't think any present or future writer can move outside of without alienating the expectations of the audience.

In this and with Rosa, they are tactful in their approach. Specifically, they aren't making the events depicted centre around the Doctor - she's more of an observer - with even the moral messages the writers hope to convey being presented more by the companions than her, which makes it more sympathetic in general.

A lot of the historical episodes I've seen tended to be "historical figure is menaced by aliens, the Doctor shows up, saves them, and they become besties" even to the point of kind of stealing the actual person's thunder. Thus you get this weird distorted history where everything meaningful leads back to the protagonist's sporadic interventions, and that's kind of what soured me about the show in general.

[BWR]

Am I the only one who hates the Christmas specials?
Both as a concept and their execution.

[Ebon_Drake]

Not going to respond to each point, but I thought that

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things looked if anything almost too contemporary for the India-Pakistan border in 1947, rather than primitive. A bit too sparsely populated, though.

And I saw no indication that they had electricity, so yeah, probably a battery-operated radio. Could have even been something like a crystal radio, but they probably wouldn't have gotten that good a signal with a crystal set.

Yeah, I've travelled around India a fair bit and honestly what we see in the episode isn't that far from what you'd see in parts of rural India now, let alone 1947. Nowadays they'd be more likely have maybe a motorbike and generator, but otherwise things haven't changed all that much for those outside the cities. I'd be willing to put the low population down to BBC budgeting.

Also, I'm fairly sure wind-up radios were a thing at that time. Maybe Prem brought it back with him from his time in the army? Hardly a serious plot hole.

Am I the only one who hates the Christmas specials?
Both as a concept and their execution.

I don't mind them in concept, and I have had some nice times watching them with my family over the years. However, there have also been some real clunkers that have been overly-saccharine schmaltz, too continuity-heavy so they put off the casual viewers that only tune in at Christmas, and/or the Christmas theming has been an active detriment to the episode.

I think they might work better if the seasons were structured so that the Christmas special fell somewhere in the middle of the run. That way they could always just be a standalone episode, rather than often also having to be the big regeneration episode that wraps up a Doctor's whole tenure. It would at least reduce the issues of continuity lockout and unnecessary theming.

Mind you, I suspect part of the problem is that regeneration episodes are a big draw and so making that happen at Christmas gives the BBC a solid ratings-winner on one of the biggest days in TV.

[Darth Ultron]

Am I the only one who hates the Christmas specials?
Both as a concept and their execution.

Well, it's something nice to watch during the holidays, after the traditional movies like Gremlins, Trading Places and Die Hard.

And there is plenty to do:

There are plenty of holiday characters still to run into: Rudolph, Olive the Other Reindeer, Frosty, Mr. Hankie....

And you have a whole world of stories:

*Burn down the Yule Goat in Gävle’s Castle Square Sweden.

*Krampus, beast-like demon creature that grabs bad kids in Austria

*The Yule Cat of Iceland, that eats anyone with old clothing on after presents are opened

*The evil Greek Yule Goblins (the kallikantzaros)

[Algeh]

Oh...wait...it just came to me: Rani will be the Timeless's Child Other Mom! Doctor Who: My Two Moms!

Look, we've been over this: an elaborate Doctor Who fan theory just isn't complete until The Valeyard is dragged into it. Please revise.

I like the lack of a season "arc flavor" so far this season. I enjoy shows with an intentional, plotted arc (I've re-watched Babylon 5 more times than anything else of that length), but I never saw it as making sense in most seasons for there to be some arc hint following The Doctor through time and space for exactly this set of things that happened both before and after a bunch of other things by the perspective of everyone not traveling in the Tardis right now. Some of the "arcs" annoyed me less in this way than others, but the general idea of something "gradually building up" as the doctor hops around in time feels weirdly meta since it only makes sense in terms of the Doctor's (and audience's) timeline rather than the universe's in general.

I'd like to see some multi-part episodes, though, because I feel like the formula I liked best for Classic Who was the episodes that had one group of People, another group of People, the interactions between those two groups of People, and a Monster that would serve as some kind of catalyst to change the set points for the two groups of People. With an hour to work with, it seems like we often only get one group of People and a Monster, so we lose a lot of the interesting interactions between the guest cast. (This is less a criticism of this season of Who and more a pattern that started to annoy me a few seasons back. This season seems to be doing more to shortchange the monster parts to try to get more people-complexity, which I am largely fine with.)