Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

[tigerusthegreat]

I was reading some historic updates, and found something I think is interesting.

On Nov 29th, 2018, Rob mentions that he's been spending time 3d modeling for the last "year and a half." which roughly correlates with Lauri leaving the team, and a terrible dip in productivity.

Update Counts:

2016: 103
Jan: 9
Feb: 9
Mar: 8
Apr: 9
May: 9
Jun: 8
July: 9
Aug: 9
Sept: 9
Oct: 8
Nov: 8
Dec: 8

2017: 72
Jan: 8
Feb: 8
Mar: 9
Apr: 8
May: 9
Jun: 9
July: 1 *Lauri leaves, approx Rob starts 3d modeling * *2 month planned hiatus*
Aug: 0
Sept: 1 *surprise extra hiatus*
Oct: 7 *resumes planning on skipping 2 updates a month*
Nov: 5
Dec: 7

2018: 58
Jan: 6
Feb: 6
Mar: 7
Apr: 6 *Cancer Diagnosis* *Rain or Shine Pledge Level Starts*
May: 6
Jun: 3
July: 2
Aug: 6
Sept: 4
Oct: 6
Nov: 3
Dec: 3

2019: 20
Jan: 4
Feb: 5
Mar: 5
Apr: 1
May: 0 *No updates for the rest of the year announced*
Jun: 2
July: 3 (so far)


My guess from this data is that Rob took over the 3d modeling, and stopped doing his primary job of writing. What they needed 3d modeling for besides reference is anyone's guess, but it's pretty clear it caused major issues (or at least Rob assumed it was needed).

[Aquillion]

Notably, 3D modeling was previously Lauri's thing, and the update speed plunged for the first time right after he left.

(Of course, the cancer diagnosis happened just a few months later, so.)

Another thing that leaps out at me: The toolshed is a major factor in them having to reduce the number of updates per year.

That seems backwards? I seriously doubt any donators would want side-material at the cost of getting fewer updates. More generally, it feels like the underlying problem Erfworld has always struggled with was these get-rich-quick plans to try and monetize it in ways that distracted from making a comic. Like, at the end of the day, people who give Rob money aren't doing so because they want 3D models or pinups or playing cards or whatever other silliness it is, they're doing it because they want more Erfworld.

If I were him I'd just dump everything except actual updates, and try to encourage donations for those (possibly a simple pay-to-see-chapter-early thing -- there are serious drawbacks to that, especially in terms of splitting the community discussions, but it has the absolutely huge advantage that it doesn't distract the team from the work of making the comic.)

[tigerusthegreat]

Notably, 3D modeling was previously Lauri's thing, and the update speed plunged for the first time right after he left.

(Of course, the cancer diagnosis happened just a few months later, so.)

Another thing that leaps out at me: The toolshed is a major factor in them having to reduce the number of updates per year.

That seems backwards? I seriously doubt any donators would want side-material at the cost of getting fewer updates. More generally, it feels like the underlying problem Erfworld has always struggled with was these get-rich-quick plans to try and monetize it in ways that distracted from making a comic. Like, at the end of the day, people who give Rob money aren't doing so because they want 3D models or pinups or playing cards or whatever other silliness it is, they're doing it because they want more Erfworld.

If I were him I'd just dump everything except actual updates, and try to encourage donations for those (possibly a simple pay-to-see-chapter-early thing -- there are serious drawbacks to that, especially in terms of splitting the community discussions, but it has the absolutely huge advantage that it doesn't distract the team from the work of making the comic.)

You know how many backers he'd get if he gave tools the updates a day early? I mean, that'd require him to actually have a backlog of updates, but he could make bank over it.

For someone who has such a large team, he still deals with so much stupid crap himself. He has three web guys, but nobody doing project management for him. He has two 3d modelers, but nobody to tell him "No" when he wants to do crazy **** that is off topic. And his biggest complaint is that he thinks his team is too small because (and I kid you not he made this comparison) Game of Thrones has a huge staff of people to produce it. He has definite delusions of grandeur, and he's not going to be able to realize them because he isn't producing a quality main product anymore.

I don't want to dig it up again, but there's also a fun quote from before Rain or Shine donations where he said that he didn't want to do Rain or Shine because it would remove motivation to do on time updates.

[Kornaki]

Hey, the expositionmancer confirmed the towers are opposites of their rulers. It's actually genius if it was intentional, Charlie was a world stomping killer so they knew it was gonna be a power decrease when he got his tower.

[halfeye]

Hey, the expositionmancer confirmed the towers are opposites of their rulers. It's actually genius if it was intentional, Charlie was a world stomping killer so they knew it was gonna be a power decrease when he got his tower.

No, that's not clever at all. If the towers are opposite their rulers, that makes every side a lot more average, which makes all the warfare a lot less winable.

[Kornaki]

No, that's not clever at all. If the towers are opposite their rulers, that makes every side a lot more average, which makes all the warfare a lot less winable.

It.. makes it a lot more winnable if you were below average. Which possibly every side bedsides Charlie was.

[NEO|Phyte]

No, that's not clever at all. If the towers are opposite their rulers, that makes every side a lot more average, which makes all the warfare a lot less winable.

Sounds like Erf trying to maintain its status quo, then.

[Anteros]

No, that's not clever at all. If the towers are opposite their rulers, that makes every side a lot more average, which makes all the warfare a lot less winable.

It might be a tactically good decision if you're up against someone stronger than you, but making all sides more equal does make the story itself more boring for sure.

[deuterio12]

It might be a tactically good decision if you're up against someone stronger than you, but making all sides more equal does make the story itself more boring for sure.

That reminds me of all the fan predictions that every side would be ordering "summon perfect warlord" scrolls of their own.

But if the final goal is achieving peace in Erfworld, awakened towers may just be part of the solution. If nothing else, it makes taking the enemy cap virtually impossible when they can drop rocks over your head, name new heirs on the fly and have basically infinite juice at their disposal. Anything short of a red dwagon fleet burning the whole place to the ground from the air wouldn't suffice.

[Kantaki]

It might be a tactically good decision if you're up against someone stronger than you, but making all sides more equal does make the story itself more boring for sure.

But if all sides are equal Parson'll have to make clever plans again the story will be longer.
And isn't that what every reader Rob Balder wants?

[Anteros]

Let's be honest. The only way "peace will be achieved in Erfworld" is the death of the universe to entropy because this story is never going to get anywhere near the end.

[deuterio12]

Let's be honest. The only way "peace will be achieved in Erfworld" is the death of the universe to entropy because this story is never going to get anywhere near the end.

A quite possible end at this point.

Remember, great abbey's plan always was "if we break enough things, eventually we'll break war itself." She never said anything about anybody still being around to enjoy the new peace.

[Kantaki]

A quite possible end at this point.

Remember, great abbey's plan always was "if we break enough things, eventually we'll break war itself." She never said anything about anybody still being around to enjoy the new peace.

So the plan is to let everyone rest in peace?
Sounds legit.

[pendell]

Hold on a minute. Those may be the opposites of the rulers today. What happens when another ruler inherits? Do the towers develop to be the opposite of the new ruler as well, or do they retain their original personalities?

If the second, then it's possible that over time the towers will become the true rulers of their sides, with the ostensible heads mere window-dressing. Erfworld devolves first into stalemate and then into peace.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Anteros]

Hold on a minute. Those may be the opposites of the rulers today. What happens when another ruler inherits? Do the towers develop to be the opposite of the new ruler as well, or do they retain their original personalities?

If the second, then it's possible that over time the towers will become the true rulers of their sides, with the ostensible heads mere window-dressing. Erfworld devolves first into stalemate and then into peace.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

So if Parson ever inherits his side, we may end up with a tower that's a moron but actually does things?

[tigerusthegreat]

So if Parson ever inherits his side, we may end up with a tower that's a moron but actually does things?

There can't be a tower that's opposite of Parson. By definition the towers spend all their turns standing in front of a portal.

[deuterio12]

There can't be a tower that's opposite of Parson. By definition the towers spend all their turns standing in front of a portal.

On the contrary, the result of awakening Hamster city would be the first proper mobile mecha tower, able to travel accross hexes!

Which was Hamster's original plan as you may remember when trying it for the first time.

[tomaO2]

Hold on a minute. Those may be the opposites of the rulers today. What happens when another ruler inherits? Do the towers develop to be the opposite of the new ruler as well, or do they retain their original personalities?

If the second, then it's possible that over time the towers will become the true rulers of their sides, with the ostensible heads mere window-dressing. Erfworld devolves first into stalemate and then into peace.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Very unlikely. We already have a new ruler for TV, and I doubt Hue is suddenly going to undergo a massive change because of the change. Even if the tower's persona was directed off the ruler, the tower's current nature is now set. They are people, not warped mirror reflections. To change a tower, it needs life experience.

Towers can't become the true ruler of the side, because they control a single city. If Stanley had gone back to GK for the capital, then Jed wouldn't have much influence on the side, right? Also, the ruler can still demolish a city at any point, and then rebuild it without a personality.

I'm also not sure why you'd think a tower wouldn't be interested in war to begin with. Most living units are natural warmongers.

[-D-]

I'm also not sure why you'd think a tower wouldn't be interested in war to begin with. Most living units are natural warmongers.

It's implied towers enjoy when sides fight over them. They are warmongers.

[tigerusthegreat]

Very unlikely. We already have a new ruler for TV, and I doubt Hue is suddenly going to undergo a massive change because of the change. Even if the tower's persona was directed off the ruler, the tower's current nature is now set. They are people, not warped mirror reflections. To change a tower, it needs life experience.

Towers can't become the true ruler of the side, because they control a single city. If Stanley had gone back to GK for the capital, then Jed wouldn't have much influence on the side, right? Also, the ruler can still demolish a city at any point, and then rebuild it without a personality.

I'm also not sure why you'd think a tower wouldn't be interested in war to begin with. Most living units are natural warmongers.

Since the towers can tap into the most.....pure? primal?....parts of the side, they may be able to overrule orders to demolish the city or diminish the tower.

[Doran]

Update

Updates seem to have been fairly regular recently.

[Razade]

Consistent in frequency and general lack of entertainment. More "deep talk" but now instead of playing with strings and decision trees, Rob is playing with words and himself. Also that 3D model is by far one of the ugliest things I've ever seen in rendered space. Like holy crap is it bad. The continued insistence that they need to make 3D models proves to me that Rob doesn't just not know what he's doing, he's trying to sabotage his own creative work.

[The Glyphstone]

Eh, battling via buzzword jargon got a smirk out of me.

[Kornaki]

Consistent in frequency and general lack of entertainment. More "deep talk" but now instead of playing with strings and decision trees, Rob is playing with words and himself. Also that 3D model is by far one of the ugliest things I've ever seen in rendered space. Like holy crap is it bad. The continued insistence that they need to make 3D models proves to me that Rob doesn't just not know what he's doing, he's trying to sabotage his own creative work.

The model of the tower? It's supposed to be wrapped in paper and covered with the words Noah is reading. I think it's fine for that purpose.

[tigerusthegreat]

Consistent in frequency and general lack of entertainment. More "deep talk" but now instead of playing with strings and decision trees, Rob is playing with words and himself. Also that 3D model is by far one of the ugliest things I've ever seen in rendered space. Like holy crap is it bad. The continued insistence that they need to make 3D models proves to me that Rob doesn't just not know what he's doing, he's trying to sabotage his own creative work.

I will give him minor props for updating instead of begging with kickstarters (though I'd love to know why he made the decision when he did).

My guess is we will be in 1-2 prologue updates a week territory until they figure out how to make a frontal view of a unit look erfy.

It sickens me a bit to read the comments section. Seems like a lot of people love ugly looking art....or there's a koolaid fountain somewhere.

[Welf]

I think this is second time the fans pay so a new artist can learn to draw. That must be some kind of record.
So far I the story line seems not relevant for the plot. It seems to be about explaining what Temples. I think the main purpose here is to give Rob opportunity to try the new 3D art and experiment with language.

[Aquillion]

I do have to say, words are at least slightly more interesting than strings. Strings were just Quantum Flux-level gobbledygook that could be used to justify anything; words make more intuitive sense and have more thematic weight behind them.

[tigerusthegreat]

I do have to say, words are at least slightly more interesting than strings. Strings were just Quantum Flux-level gobbledygook that could be used to justify anything; words make more intuitive sense and have more thematic weight behind them.

Rob is also good at wordplay. His writing and world building are two very strong aspects of the comic.

[Anteros]

Wait, so they're changing artists again? Xin's art was the only reason I ever even visited the comic anymore. I don't even read the text updates at all. I'm definitely not going to stick around for the riveting combination of bad story and bad art.

[HorizonWalker]

Rob is also good at wordplay. His writing and world building are two very strong aspects of the comic.

What Rob's good at isn't writing, it's making references and puns.