Fighter 6/Wizard 14?

[KOLE]

I know it’s cheesy and some people don’t like it, but I LOVE the idea of going first level fighter then going wizard X for Con saves and heavy armor profiecency. The idea of a Wizard in full Plate can be either comical (Picture a full gandalf beard sticking out of his helmet visor, complaining that the eyeholes are too narrow to read his spell book) or intimidating (Contrast a necromancer leading his army of skeletons in pitch black chain mail with an egregious amount of spikes using his battle axe as a spell focus).

I have played with this build before but it always capped at Fighter 2 after third level spells for action surge. I started tweaking with it again and thought- why not fighter 3 to grab eldritch knight and pick up another level of spellcasting? Then I thought one may as well go fighter 6 for extra attack and come out an ASI ahead!

This would both make the Wizard a lot more survivable and make a nice Gishy character. I haven’t seen a build like this discussed before and I’m wondering if I’m missing something. Is the Extra Attack a complete waste? Should I stop at 3 for EK and call it good?

What schools should I consider for this build? Necromancy and Conjuration are out- little to no minionmancy allowed at my table- War Magic seems cool. Divination is always good. I like the idea of Enchantment as well.

[Legendairy]

I’m guessing bladesinger is not on the menu? Trim down some fighter and you could have more caster! As far as the schools it’s to flavor, depends on how you see the character. Divination can be fantastic, make them fail a hold save and melt them in 1v1s and the like. Really depends on the character, evocation and shaping spells albeit limited is nice for group play.

Edit: the problems I see with too much fighter is you lose a lot of spell casting levels, that’s why you don’t see it often. Also you miss out on the high level stuff so it depends on how long the game is expected to last. Fighter 6 even EK sets you behind substantially in the casting. Survivability is a relative term for full casters in my experience, things like misty step, invisibility, wall spels, shield, counter spell, blur, and mirror image also increase survivability. So it’s just down to the flavor you want, you can go bladesinger and still get extra attack, a very respectable ac and full caster progression.

As far as the school you want, it’s all flavor in my opinion. Yes some schools are more powerful than others but if divination fighter isn’t your thing and you want to invest in illusions more power to ya.

[Sigreid]

Totally viable. The issue is that you give up spell mastery and 9th level spells. Both are a huge cost, but you've knocked out most of the wizard's weaknesses.

[CTurbo]

EK Fighter 6, Abjurer 14 would be awesome! That's the most obvious combo to me.

BM Fighter 6, Bladesinger 14 would also be very very good.

[DanyBallon]

Why not push to EK 7 and get War Magic, in order to be able to cast an attack cantrip and make a weapon attack?

Or even get to EK 10 for Eldritch Strike? You loose on your highest spell slots you can get, but get more HP, more feats, and a mean to make your spell more effective.

I remember and old thread about EK and Bladesigner multiclass where the sweet spot was EK 10/BS 10

[CTurbo]

Why not push to EK 7 and get War Magic, in order to be able to cast an attack cantrip and make a weapon attack?

Or even get to EK 10 for Eldritch Strike? You loose on your highest spell slots you can get, but get more HP, more feats, and a mean to make your spell more effective.

I remember and old thread about EK and Bladesigner multiclass where the sweet spot was EK 10/BS 10

All of the Wiz's 14th level abilities are great though.

If I was personally going to do this, I would probably just go Fighter 2/Wiz 18 for Con saves, Armor, Defense, and Action Surge. I don't see any of the Wizards other than Bladesingers really valuing the extra attack too much.

[KOLE]

I’m guessing bladesinger is not on the menu? Trim down some fighter and you could have more caster!

One day I'd love to play straight Bladesinger as I think it's an epic School and a great archetype, but it this build can be summarized as Heavy Armor Gish Wizard,which automatically counts out Bladesinger as it requires light armor only. Very viable suggestion but not the point of this build.

Totally viable. The issue is that you give up spell mastery and 9th level spells. Both are a huge cost, but you've knocked out most of the wizard's weaknesses.

Fair point! But I'm hoping that competitive melee ability will be enough to counteract those two big costs.

Why not push to EK 7 and get War Magic, in order to be able to cast an attack cantrip and make a weapon attack?

Or even get to EK 10 for Eldritch Strike? You loose on your highest spell slots you can get, but get more HP, more feats, and a mean to make your spell more effective.

War Magic pales in comparison to level 14 Wiz features IMO. 10 fighter/10 Wiz would take far too long to come online and lose way to many spells. Probably a really fun build in its own right however.

If I was personally going to do this, I would probably just go Fighter 2/Wiz 18 for Con saves, Armor, Defense, and Action Surge. I don't see any of the Wizards other than Bladesingers really valuing the extra attack too much.

So, after spending some more time thinking on this, I think this is a build that can't be theorycrafted too far out. I think it has to be played to be tweaked as one would want it. Fighter 2/Wiz X is a great and proven build, and I might just stick to that formula.

Right now, I think I'll start fighter 1 than go Wizard 5 for 3rd level spells ASAP (don't want to get too far behind on spells!) Then take fighter 2 for action surge. I would spend level 7 feeling out the build, to see if I have any chance in heck at actually being decent in melee.

For those curious, I'm planning on V Human with Heavy Armor Master to get three 16s at level one. 16/8/16/8/16/8. Defense fighting style because I'm an AC glutton.

I think I'll got Fighter 3 at level 8 to get EK; to make up for some lost spell progression and because I love weapon bonding. I may stop at fighter 3. But depending on the campaign and how well the character does, go for the next 3 levels of fighter. Probably pick War Caster at level 4 for that sweet sweet reaction spell casting, plus my DM can be a stickler about somatic components. Not to mention Con saves and advantage on concentration saves mean I'm not losing concentration basically ever. The rest of my ASIs are going to max Int first than boost Con for more HP.

Bladesinger is out as it's built around light armor.
I ruled out Abjuration because I don't like how the major feature is limited to Abjuration spells only.
Evocation seems like a natural choice but I don't want to be pure blaster.
Divination would probably be my choice but the flavor doesn't work for the character, so YMMV
Enchantment fits the flavor and compliments the build since hypnotic gaze requires you get fairly close to your enemies. Almost picked this but decided on War Magic. I'm a sucker for always-relevant reactions, and the other class abilities are cherry.

So, in summary, I think Fighter 6/Wiz 14 could work for a high level campaign. It comes online really late and it may not be super effective unless you went light armor fighter and bladesinger. I think I'll probably stick to Fighter 3/Wizard X however, and the third level is purely for flavor as I love weapon bonding. After analyzing this I think the classic Fighter 2/Wizard X is superior in most ways.

Still think it's worthwhile. Our current campaign is set to end in October as one of our players is moving to Africa, so this is my next character starting then. I may try this build and report back on my findings.

Thanks for your comments!

EDIT: I also love that War Magic adds int modifier to initiative. Small thing, but every Wizard should want the first turn, and with build dumping dex, it's a nice boost!

[CTurbo]

I ruled out Abjuration because I don't like how the major feature is limited to Abjuration spells only.

I don't see how this is an issue. A lot of the best Wizard spells are Abjuration anyway. The Abjurer probably has the best level 14 feature too. IMO at least. You know you're gonna cast Shield, Counterspell, and Dispel Magic all the time, and you'll be adding your Proficiency bonus to Counterspell and Dispel Magic.

[Sigreid]

If you want the super cheese, a deep gnome fighter/abjur can with their first feat take deep gnome magic and recharge their ward for free at will.

[ATHATH]

If you want the super cheese, a deep gnome fighter/abjur can with their first feat take deep gnome magic and recharge their ward for free at will.

Personally, I prefer going deep gnome Hexblade 1/Wizard X. Armor of Agathys and the Abjurer's ward synergize really well with each other. Add a level or two of Fighter to the beginning of my preferred build (or take the Heavily Armored feat), and you can use heavy armor. If you want the build to come online earlier/want more feats, you can be a variant human and take another level of Warlock, giving you access to that invocation that gives you the ability to cast Mage Armor at-will (which can ALSO recharge the ward in-between fights, just like the SvIcan'tspellthisoffthetopofmyhead Magic feat's at-will Nondetection spell can).

Take the SCAG melee cantrips, of course. Booming Blade in particular can be used to encourage enemies to remain near you and attack into your Armor of Agathys spell.

Remember that many of the good spells that only take a Reaction to use (Shield, Absorb Elements, and Counterspell in particular) can recharge your ward.

[Anymage]

Extra Attack doesn't strike me as that impressive when cantrips have built in auto-scaling and your primarily caster self probably wants to be casting instead. Making Extra Attack scale well all the way to 20 requires either more attacks piled on, like the fighter, or some other way to attach bonus damage like a paladin.

Even looking at the lesser form of the build, Fighter2/Wizard18 vs. Fighter3/Wizard17, I'd still take the former even though they both have the exact same caster level. The EK version gives two more cantrips known, three more first level spells known, ~2 more HP, and the weapon bond ribbon. The eighteenth level of Wizard brings Spell Mastery, which blows all that stuff out of the water.

Picking Fighter 1 as your first level is understandable, for a bunch of reasons. Going to Fighter 2 for Action Surge can also enable some fun nova games. After that, though, let's ignore the potential for 20 level builds and focus on normal leveling. At what point would adding two levels of fighter be more attractive than adding two levels of wizard at any point in the leveling career?

[Exocist]

Personally, I prefer going deep gnome Hexblade 1/Wizard X. Armor of Agathys and the Abjurer's ward synergize really well with each other. Add a level or two of Fighter to the beginning of my preferred build (or take the Heavily Armored feat), and you can use heavy armor. If you want the build to come online earlier/want more feats, you can be a variant human and take another level of Warlock, giving you access to that invocation that gives you the ability to cast Mage Armor at-will (which can ALSO recharge the ward in-between fights, just like the SvIcan'tspellthisoffthetopofmyhead Magic feat's at-will Nondetection spell can).

Take the SCAG melee cantrips, of course. Booming Blade in particular can be used to encourage enemies to remain near you and attack into your Armor of Agathys spell.

Remember that many of the good spells that only take a Reaction to use (Shield, Absorb Elements, and Counterspell in particular) can recharge your ward.

If you want super Cheese, you don't even need Deep Gnome if you're taking Warlock. Just do Hexblade 2/Wizard X and use the Invocation "Armor of Shadows" to spam Mage Armor, recharging your ward.

[Tetrasodium]

I'm playing a fighter 1 wizard 3 sage background school of invention rick gnome in a game right now & it's awesome. 15str/Plate &19 int with a good 17 con is possible due to stat rolls so defensive fighting style+shield +plate makes for very good AC. I don't need a melee weapon & just use the arcane staff from phb150. my choose x spells has been every ritual castable spell & school of invention gives me some semi randomized boom if I need it until I can fill in the gaps. having a great con save plus advantage on int/wis/cha saves is a huge boon :D

edit: I've looked at the benefits of EK many times over trying to think of ways to make it useful, but frankly there is very little benefit to it as others have already pointed out. Sure you will get some extra hp & a bunch of cantrips, but meh.. I think that a better option would be artificer/wiz or just straight artificer, but in both of those we need to wait until an actual artificer is released as the current UAs claiming to be "artificer" are anything but. A wandslinger might do great if there is a fighter based archtype of it down the line.

[samcifer]

What is the specific appeal to you in fighter? The feats? the CON save? If you can live with one less ASI/feat, I would say that Wizard + any other full caster would be better, esp. Cleric or Druid as Wizards tend to want high Wisdom as well and both have access to medium armor and shields, which will boost your AC and not lose you any progression on basic spell levels (you'll still lose class spell levels, but the slots will still progress as normal, letting you up-cast many of your lower-level spells.

[Tetrasodium]

What is the specific appeal to you in fighter? The feats? the CON save? If you can live with one less ASI/feat, I would say that Wizard + any other full caster would be better, esp. Cleric or Druid as Wizards tend to want high Wisdom as well and both have access to medium armor and shields, which will boost your AC and not lose you any progression on basic spell levels (you'll still lose class spell levels, but the slots will still progress as normal, letting you up-cast many of your lower-level spells.

fighter1 gives

• 10+con hp (a huge bump at early levels)
• second wind for 1d10+1 hp/rest as a bonus action
• shield+all armor proficiencies (useful)
• all weapon proficiencies (pfft whatever)
• A fighting style like defensive for +1 AC when wearing armor. this means p,ate & a shield is 21 AC
• strength saves (sometimes useful to avoid a grapple, especially if you have the 15 str needed for plate)
• con saves... combined with a good con, this is awesome for a caster
  *]Choose two skills from Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival. Between race & background you can shore this up with interesting stuff fitting a caster
• Yes you lose 1 level of casting progression but gain some useful stuff that lets you play very differently as a wizard
• If you choose the right races you can get advantage on the wis/int/cha saves too

[Asmotherion]

In 5e, if you like something, go for it, and then make it viable. It's easy to make almost anything a Viable Build in this System.

So, if you like a Wizard-Fighter, Build him, make a Story for him (including how he chose his school), and then optimise around that.

As for why people don't Generally do Multiclass/Dip Wizards: Spell Levels. Falling Behind even 1 spell level is something most casters are not willing to put up with... lossing an opportunity to cast 9th and 8th level spells, spell mastery etc after going all the Way to Level 20 (esspecially in scenarios where XP is not a River), is enough to make it a no-go for the Dedicated Spellcasters.

[djreynolds]

Extra Attack doesn't strike me as that impressive when cantrips have built in auto-scaling and your primarily caster self probably wants to be casting instead. Making Extra Attack scale well all the way to 20 requires either more attacks piled on, like the fighter, or some other way to attach bonus damage like a paladin.

Even looking at the lesser form of the build, Fighter2/Wizard18 vs. Fighter3/Wizard17, I'd still take the former even though they both have the exact same caster level. The EK version gives two more cantrips known, three more first level spells known, ~2 more HP, and the weapon bond ribbon. The eighteenth level of Wizard brings Spell Mastery, which blows all that stuff out of the water.

Picking Fighter 1 as your first level is understandable, for a bunch of reasons. Going to Fighter 2 for Action Surge can also enable some fun nova games. After that, though, let's ignore the potential for 20 level builds and focus on normal leveling. At what point would adding two levels of fighter be more attractive than adding two levels of wizard at any point in the leveling career?

Exactly. 100%

Is it just for the extra feat, or the extra attack?

Every level lost is a new spell level, a new spell that changes the game for one more swipe of a sword?

You can always grab resilient con, wisdom saves are just as important. Really important, especially with an 8 in wisdom.

And you will need war caster with a shield, so now you are down a feat. Nothing wrong with war caster, I'd still recommend it.

I played a mountain dwarf abjurer, not the most optimized, but very dangerous. I went weaponless and used shocking grasp as my melee attack (pre-scag) My AC with half-plate was decent.

So to play a heavy armor caster, you could go fighter and would go fighter 2/wizard X. I might recommend Hill dwarf and leave strength at a respectable 13 and grab the athletics proficiency, since dwarves can use heavy armor without a 15 in strength.

Also you could go life, tempest or war cleric or forge cleric and possibly dump strength with a cleric. Focus on Int/con/wisdom

The extra attack is good to have, since many enemy have resistance to elemental or magic.... but you have other party members to fill those gaps. Perhaps when fighting demons, you can buff your allies.

Good luck

[Tetrasodium]

Exactly. 100%

Is it just for the extra feat, or the extra attack?

Every level lost is a new spell level, a new spell that changes the game for one more swipe of a sword?

You can always grab resilient con, wisdom saves are just as important. Really important, especially with an 8 in wisdom.

And you will need war caster with a shield, so now you are down a feat. Nothing wrong with war caster, I'd still recommend it.

I played a mountain dwarf abjurer, not the most optimized, but very dangerous. I went weaponless and used shocking grasp as my melee attack (pre-scag) My AC with half-plate was decent.

So to play a heavy armor caster, you could go fighter and would go fighter 2/wizard X. I might recommend Hill dwarf and leave strength at a respectable 13 and grab the athletics proficiency, since dwarves can use heavy armor without a 15 in strength.

Also you could go life, tempest or war cleric or forge cleric and possibly dump strength with a cleric. Focus on Int/con/wisdom

The extra attack is good to have, since many enemy have resistance to elemental or magic.... but you have other party members to fill those gaps. Perhaps when fighting demons, you can buff your allies.

Good luck

You don't need warcaster for a shield if your other hand holds a focus item depending on how you read the phb203 (one says you need a free hand, the other says it can be the same hand) somatic/material component bits & explicitly with the wgte114 rules. a fighter1 wizard X caster only needs warcaster to cast if they want to cast with a martial weapon or very understandably wants the con save advantage.

Yes, a wizard could take resilient con, warcaster, somehow gain shield prof, light, medium, & heavy armor prof... but that's not a trivial collection & a loss of 1 level of spell progression in exchange for that & more by starting as fighter 1 is not an untenable thin depending on the roles you are aiming at.

[ATHATH]

If you want super Cheese, you don't even need Deep Gnome if you're taking Warlock. Just do Hexblade 2/Wizard X and use the Invocation "Armor of Shadows" to spam Mage Armor, recharging your ward.

If you want the build to come online earlier/want more feats, you can be a variant human and take another level of Warlock, giving you access to that invocation that gives you the ability to cast Mage Armor at-will (which can ALSO recharge the ward in-between fights, just like the SvIcan'tspellthisoffthetopofmyhead Magic feat's at-will Nondetection spell can).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j58AlNUbEs

[Exocist]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j58AlNUbEs

oh **** waddup