Anonymouswizard researches Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality

[keybounce]

Hermione in canon book was was really a know-it-all prick, so I didn't see this as much different.

As for the relationship?

Spoiler

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I'm actually reading this story to my mother. When you get to the winter break, and they are getting together for dinner, my mother's reaction to what happened was, "they're 11-year-old children".

[Lethologica]

Chapter 8 brings us the trio's third. If Harry is the genius of Nerd culture, Hermione is the conventional genius nerd: socially awkward, perfect memory, loves tests, helps kids with their homework, gets her knowledge from books, and so on. (I will continue to use 'Nerd' to refer to the cultural nerd as opposed to the conventional one.) Harry and Malfoy share a love of plotting; Harry and Hermione share a love of learning - or at least a love of knowing things, which is not quite the same.

This chapter is primarily about how Nerds establish hierarchy - through gatekeeping and dominance displays. It's gorillas hooting at each other, but with obscure knowledge and weirdness. As in canon, Hermione's "Books! And cleverness!" are subordinated to Harry's qualities, but here Harry's qualities are Less Wrong rationality and creative trickery. So Hermione is tricked, and she is baffled by Harry's 'surreal' trickery, and her book-learning doesn't give her the scientific mindset to pass Harry's 2-4-6 test. We get a rousing round of LW didacticism that also firmly establishes Harry at the top of the Nerd hierarchy, to no one's surprise. At least he condescends to raise Hermione from the ranks of the NPCs along the way.

Beyond this core, two significant elements appear. First, Hermione and Harry conflict over the ethics of Harry's prank with Neville. Hermione's morality is also conventional - Pranking Kids Is Wrong. Harry has a winning LW-type explanation, but his first explanation is that it was fun. Is this rationality or rationalization? In most things LW-rationality is decisively correct, but here for once there is a little tension, even if Hermione can't articulate it.

Second, this is our first glimpse of an actual Gryffindor student, and it's not at all flattering. Three major characters who are about to become Gryffindors in canon have been forcibly diverted from that path. Only natural, given the story's shift in focus. But this shift has been effected by attacking Gryffindor from every angle. James Potter is the "Scourge of Gryffindor." McGonagall surprisingly has nothing positive, and a good deal negative, to say about her House. A Good Gryffindor, Ron, has been disdained and sidelined. Now a Bad Gryffindor has been manufactured, the main character has delivered his opinion on Gryffindors, and Hermione is being made to realize that Gryffindor isn't all that. Slytherin is about to add a would-be child rapist to its ranks, but of the four Houses, it's Gryffindor that's shaping up to be this story's punching bag.

[Tyndmyr]

Okay maybe someone who has actual access to the first book might correct me. But I thought a big part of the first book's character development for Hermoine was her going from a "Overly follows the rules doesn't know how to interact with people properly goody two shoes" to someone who values friends over the rules? Or am I misremembering. It's been a while since I read the first HP book. So ya I don't see her characterization being that off

That's pretty accurate. Hermoine as Ravenclaw would probably make more sense even in canon, though of course having all the protagonists in the same house is convenient. Hermoine doesn't get a particularly short straw in MoR, at least not at this regard.

The predictions are amusing. I'm curious to see how thoughts on them develop as the story continues.

For context, our introduction to Hermione in canon is as follows(to Ron):

“Are you sure that’s a real spell?” said the girl. “Well, it’s not very good, is it? I’ve tried a few simple spells just for practice and it’s all worked for me... I’ve learned all our course books by heart, of course.”

She's not trying to be a jerk in that scene, but if we're trying to justify a bit of trouble in connecting with people, and being overly concerned about memorizing things...yeah, I'm not seeing a change here.

[hamishspence]

Hermoine as Ravenclaw would probably make more sense even in canon, though of course having all the protagonists in the same house is convenient.

She does say she wants to be in Gryffindor during their first meeting on the train (as Harry points out in book 7, the Hat does take wearer's wishes into account when making its decision),

and in book 5, when asked why she's not in Ravenclaw if she's so brainy, she mentions that the Sorting Hat did have trouble deciding, before settling on Gryffindor.

[Rynjin]

Hermione in canon book was was really a know-it-all prick, so I didn't see this as much different.

As for the relationship?

Spoiler

Show

I'm actually reading this story to my mother. When you get to the winter break, and they are getting together for dinner, my mother's reaction to what happened was, "they're 11-year-old children".

The relationship is the weakest part of the story, especially since it all seems to be set up for

Spoiler: For Chapter 100 or so, I forget

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Hermione to get fridged later to motivate Harry into the plot's endgame.

[druid91]

Spoiler: Relationship

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Nope, they don't end up together. Everyone THINKS they are in one and it's hinted that Hermoine has a crush on Harry near the very end of the series but it's brought up and then basically given the "Who cares it's not relevant" treatment in story. Frankly it's quite likely Harry is flat out asexual in this story.

Spoiler: Relationship

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He is. He outright says as much at one point, though the reasoning is fairly simple. He's not hit Puberty yet. His mind is all funky because

Spoiler: Major Last Chapter Plot Spoilers!

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He's actually a copy of Voldemort's Intellect onto Baby Harry.

But that doesn't change the fact that that mind is stuck in the body of a Pre-Pubescant Boy.

[Silva Stormrage]

Spoiler: Relationship

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He is. He outright says as much at one point, though the reasoning is fairly simple. He's not hit Puberty yet. His mind is all funky because

Spoiler: Major Last Chapter Plot Spoilers!

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He's actually a copy of Voldemort's Intellect onto Baby Harry.

But that doesn't change the fact that that mind is stuck in the body of a Pre-Pubescant Boy.

Spoiler

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Well I more of meant that it is hinted at that,

Spoiler: Major Last Chapter Plot Spoiler

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Voldemort is asexual in this universe (See his reaction to what Beatrix wants) and since Harry is a copy of Tom Riddle than that might overwrite any sexuality that Harry would normally have. Hard to say really.

But ya the whole 11 year old thing is true too.

[keybounce]

I suppose I should get back to this. This story just makes me so depressed, especially because I know I could be reading so much better stuff, I was doing it on the bus home!

...

Finally this chapter is over. Maybe I'll be able to do Chapter 8 tomorrow and get through this at a decent clip.

Please, give it a few more chapters. Just wait until you reach "The Game", and see if you can puzzle it out. (I did not, and all the clues are there.)

[Anonymouswizard]

Please, give it a few more chapters. Just wait until you reach "The Game", and see if you can puzzle it out. (I did not, and all the clues are there.)

Just to clarify, I've not abandoned this, it's just that for unrelated reasons I have a lot of stress and would rather read Lord Foul's Bane to calm down than continue the next chapter.

It might take months, and I might tone down the reactions. I mean, yes I'm really hating this story but I think I'm just repeating the same points over and over.

Still hoping Ron comes back, this story needs somebody brave enough to stand up to Harry.

[pendell]

Looking forward to you picking it back up!

The difference between this story and the original is that the original was an average student who was most noted for his courage and warm heart, which was balanced by Hermione's brains and Ron's selfless friendship.

By contrast this Harry -- let's call him Harry* since he doesn't have a great deal in common with Rowling's original vision -- has a great deal more brilliance and intelligence, while being a far colder individual. He has some moments of kindness and gentleness, but as a rule "icy brilliance" , originally attributed to another character entirely, fits Harry* well.

So Hermione is not the brighter sister in this substitute family; she's a rival as both she and Harry* try to out-smart and out-compete with each other. Since Harry* values brilliance above all, is not terribly scrupulous, and is rather chilly, he has nothing in common with Ron. They are not friends and do not move in the same circles. Small wonder that the sorting hat almost put him in Slytherin, which really is a better fit even than Ravenclaw. Ravenclaws as a rule are a bit more interested in abstract knowledge; they don't have Harry*'s will to power. Harry* has good intentions, of course. Many would-be tyrants do. But unscrupulousness+coldness+scheming is a better fit for Slytherin.

So consequently he hits it off very well with Draco, who has all of those traits but is also from a magic Nazi family. Since they are both schemers and planners, they find themselves congeniel frenemies who can understand and respect each other.

There's a reason for Harry* to be this way, as will be spelled out in later chapters, to have brilliance far beyond what one would expect of an eleven year old, but it's a very different character, and a very different story, from the original.

Unfortunately, there is exactly one character in this story who Harry* can really respect as being his superior, someone he will really submit to -- but the problem with that kind of teacher is, you only get one lesson. The last one.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[GrayDeath]

Just to clarify, I've not abandoned this, it's just that for unrelated reasons I have a lot of stress and would rather read Lord Foul's Bane to calm down than continue the next chapter.

It might take months, and I might tone down the reactions. I mean, yes I'm really hating this story but I think I'm just repeating the same points over and over.

Still hoping Ron comes back, this story needs somebody brave enough to stand up to Harry.

I hope ou get better. I went through a lot of stress the last few moths and hence can sympathize.

As for someone standing up to harry: Yes. More than one (in more than one wa) No comment if its going to be Wonwon or not. ^^

[Tyndmyr]

Just to clarify, I've not abandoned this, it's just that for unrelated reasons I have a lot of stress and would rather read Lord Foul's Bane to calm down than continue the next chapter.

It might take months, and I might tone down the reactions. I mean, yes I'm really hating this story but I think I'm just repeating the same points over and over.

I do look forward to reading your continued reactions, but by all means, read what's appealing to you at the moment. Reading ought to be enjoyable, after all!

I do agree that it's a very different sort of tale from the original, and it stands to reason that this won't appeal to everyone. Don't feel any obligation to soft-pedal your opinions. IMO, it's perfectly okay to dislike a work. Hell, I've got some authors where I enjoy some works and hate others. Once you branch out into fanfiction, it's a really mixed bag, and results are all over the place.

[Forum Explorer]

Just to clarify, I've not abandoned this, it's just that for unrelated reasons I have a lot of stress and would rather read Lord Foul's Bane to calm down than continue the next chapter.

It might take months, and I might tone down the reactions. I mean, yes I'm really hating this story but I think I'm just repeating the same points over and over.

Still hoping Ron comes back, this story needs somebody brave enough to stand up to Harry.

I really don't know why you are bothering. Seriously, why inflict a story that you really don't like upon yourself?

[Anonymouswizard]

I really don't know why you are bothering. Seriously, why inflict a story that you really don't like upon yourself?

A mix of reasons:
-I feel like giving this story enough of a chance as people day it gets better in a handful of chapters.
-My brother absolutely loves this story, and I want to read enough of it to disagree with him on the quality without the entire 'complaining about fanfiction you don't read' thing.
-I actually do enjoy writing down my reactions, and want to do more threads of this nature where I read professionally published books in the same way (majorly disappointed that I've already read the Illuminatus books, it's perfect for this), but I don't think that's fair without at least giving this one a fair shake.
-I'm not reading it at the moment, but when I'm not dealing with stuff (including, but not limited to, job applications and a pretty lady at work) I just want something I can enjoy rather than where the enjoyment is in the writing down my opinions (which seriously takes twice as long as the reading, and is much more fun).

When I began this I had a good 10+ free hours on my days off, these days I might have six. When that number goes back up or I don't feel like dislocating my left hand I'll be continuing.

[Rynjin]

-My brother absolutely loves this story, and I want to read enough of it to disagree with him on the quality without the entire 'complaining about fanfiction you don't read' thing.

One could easily argue that if you don't like a story by 8 chapters in (or, more accurately, you ACTIVELY HATE the story at 8 chapters in, not merely aren't super engaged or could take/leave it) you've read enough to know it's not your cup of tea.

[keybounce]

Small wonder that the sorting hat almost put him in Slytherin, which really is a better fit even than Ravenclaw.

There is a huge amount to say about this, but the sorting hat scene is chapter 9, if I recall correctly, so it would be a huge spoiler if AW is only up to 8.

[keybounce]

So how goes your read?