Pathfinder: Kingmaker

[Firechanter]

There's an Anti-Troll Greataxe to be had? Awesome! Hopefully attainable _before_ the Troll trouble? ^^
I'm asking because a lot of CRPGs are notorious for dropping that kind of weapon the exact moment when you will never ever need it again, so I hope they averted that nonsense this time.

When we got to the Troll Trouble bit in the tabletop campaign, I had our crafter make me a Giantbane Bardiche. Delayed our departure by a week or so, but then we ripped through the dungeon like a hot knife through margarine.

One of many instances when our bard called out to my Paladin, "Fjodor, do you always have to overdo it?" Though my TT Paladin is indeed a lot more powerful than the CRPG game allows... I would say by a factor of 3.

[Tome]

It's called trollbane and it's just a +1 acidic greataxe for all that it has a unique name.

You *can* obtain it right at the start of the troll trouble though. It's actually on the same map as where you meet Ekundao, which is also where I fought my first trolls.

Spoiler

Show

It's the ruined watchtower map, check inside the watchtower itself if I recall. You either find it in a chest on an upper level retrieved via interaction, or in a secret stash on the south side of the floor. I think.

Bring Gorrim as well, he has some unique interactions.

[Narkis]

Amri's sword is already +1, sort of makes up for -2 hit from oversized.

True, but I've already found a +1 Greatsword, and I'm sure I'll find even better ones eventually. If there's no way to give her a better oversized Bastard Sword, there's no point to have her Focus on it.

edit: I've explored everything I can before killing the Stag Lord, and I can see some named nodes with no path to actually go there. Do they open up on their own later?

[RazorChain]

Today, I got my current party up to level 4. It's really noticeable how the gameplay improves when you can't get oneshotted out of clear air at any moment, and your characters slowly develop a level of competence where not everything is just blind luck anymore.
Story-wise, I think it's a bit of a shame that Lawful Good characters of all people cannot take a peaceful approach at the Old Sycamore. :( You have to declare hostilities to either Mites or Kobolds or both. Conversely, as an Evil character you can cross and double-cross so many NPCs you probably get 3x as much loot out of the quests than a Goodie would.

After clearing out the Old Sycamore (I left around 300lbs of loot behind for later pickup), I explored some more and got to another wilderness site, where I met a Greater Weretiger. Sounds quite formidable, but it's remarkable how swiftly my Paladin made him roll over like a kitten. Took 2 or 3 rounds, I suppose.

concerning Companions:
I gave Valerie a Monk level. Even though she can't use most of the class features, you do gain a prereq-free bonus feat, some saves and better skills, so you lose absolutely nothing from her stepping away from Fighter. I picked Crane Style to boost her defense. Now with the +1 Half Plate you find, Armour Training, various AC feats and Crane Style, her effective AC should be around 29 with the Heavy Shield. I guess that's gonna be good enough for now.

At long last, Octavia also got to 4th and finally gets her level 2 spells. Now there are actually some tough choices. Web is pretty much a given, but what to take as 2nd pick? Several good candidates:
- Acid Arrow -- to lock down enemy casters more reliably.
- Blur -- statistically, every fifth attack on your frontliner should be negated. And they should be immune to sneak attack due to concealment, if the rule has been implemented correctly.
- that Fire Blob spell -- a small AoE, no To Hit Roll and still some Ongoing damage, might be even better depending than Acid Arrow on the range.
- Invisibility -- some sneaky scouting and looting before the actual fight? Might be useful!
- Mirror Image -- normally a must-have, but here the AI is too dumb to geek the mage first, so it may be unnecessary.
- that Stone spell -- can also help slow down your enemies, while you can prep your frontliners with Feather Step so they won't mind, as opposed to Web.

Yeah, so. Six candidates for just one pick. What to take? It would really help to know which spells you can find or buy as scrolls before long.

--

Possible bug: could be that Aasimar resistances don't work properly. If I didn't misread, my Paladin got spat at by a centipede and took Acid damage - which should be impossible seeing how it was just 1d4 of damage and Aasis are supposed to have Acid Res 5.

Glitter dust is absolutely awesome if you can make it stick. Makes some tough encounters a joke. If you make Octavia an arcane trickster she will rock with all ranged touch spells doing lots of damage because she gets her sneak attack bonus.

Full plate+1 costs only 2650 gp which is a bargain from Oleg. One of my first investment for Valerie and girdle of Strength, that gave her AC 31 in my game.

[Tome]

Remember that Octavia's a wizard. "All of the above" is a valid choice.

I know there's an acid arrow scroll about at the very least.

[Serafina]

Meanwhile, I'm pondering which 2nd-level spell would be best on my Archeologist Bard/Rogue(1) to help her reliably land sneak attacks if she has to do it on her own.
Glitterdust would work, but I already have that on Linzi, and enemies get multiple saves.
Blindness can target Fortitude instead, can target a single enemy, and doesn't allow repeated saves, so it offers me more utility instead.
Summon Monster II or Summon Small Elemental could provide a flanking buddy instead, which also allows sneak attacking.

Also apparently Bards don't get to pick Greater Invisibility as a 4th-level Spell, can anyone confirm that?

[Firechanter]

It's called trollbane and it's just a +1 acidic greataxe for all that it has a unique name.

Bah, that's not "Bane". A proper Bane weapon increases the Enhancement bonus by +2 and adds another +2d6 damage on top vs the keyed creature type. Also, the boosted Enhancement bonus counts towards bypassing material-based Damage Reduction. I suppose there's a reason why CRPGs tend to be rather stingy with those weapons. xD

I suppose you mean Harrim (in the spoiler)? Well I'm afraid that ship has sailed, since I have split XP disabled, so my party is mostly level 5 now and Harrim sits at a humble level 3.
Anyway, thanks for the heads-up! Will certainly come in handy either way. ^^

Also keen to make the acquaintance of this Ekundayo - and to see if he has anything on my resident archer, Belaya Smert. Just saying she lives up to her name. xD

edit: I've explored everything I can before killing the Stag Lord, and I can see some named nodes with no path to actually go there. Do they open up on their own later?

You actually need to discover a path leading to the landmark, probably with a Perception check. Sometimes it helps passing the landmark once or twice until the intersection pops up. But _maybe_ you're only allowed another roll when your skill has improved, I dunno. Anyway you can definitely visit all the locations you discover. Whether that's a clever idea is another question.

I've just made a wide sweep east and west to wrap up all the remaining locations. The trickiest one was that bloody Ratnook Hill. Basically impossible at this level without heavy metagaming - and most of my party was level 5 already.
In the cave, you will encounter...

Spoiler: Strategic Advice

Show

...three wererats; 2 Rogues and 1 Alchemist
The entrance (outside) is trapped with a tripwire. A very difficult trap to spot and disable (DC32 on my difficulty setting). If you don't disarm it, the wererats will be hiding (probably having quaffed a Vanish potion) and they'll sneak you into the middle of next week (something like 29 damage per hit). Moreover, the invisible Alchemist further back in the cave will soon start bombarding you with firebombs, and he'll retain 50% Concealment.

The optimal approach seems to be: find and disarm the trap, then the ratkins will be visible. Also buff up before you enter the cave, obviously. Among other things with Communal Fire Resist. I used a summoned wolfpack to keep the rats from flanking my guys, but they will chew through the summons pretty quickly, so you have to be quicker. Once they are down, debuff the Alchemist with Glitterdust.

Alternatively, you can just go there later when they can't give you that much trouble anymore. The loot is pretty valuable, though, especially for Dexers. ^^

--

Other relatively dangerous areas in the first chapter (on P&P difficulty), at the time you typically get there:

- Old Oak -- manageable at level 3, but its proximity to your base may entice you to drop by on level 2 -- a lethal mistake.
- Oak-That-Strayed -- likewise. It's more of a puzzle combat, once you get the right idea and use the correct spells, it's not a big deal.
- Trail in the Hills -- unless you have a very specific Main, this will be problematic until level 4-ish. I tried a couple of times at 3, got my back end handed to me, and only did it for good at 5, by which time it wasn't much trouble anymore.
- somewhere in the southwest there's a wolf lair where you have to take care that your rearguard doesn't get ambushed.

And then of course there's that "campsite trap" at Old Sycamore, which I am kinda tempted to try out yet. ^^

[Tome]

Bah, that's not "Bane". A proper Bane weapon increases the Enhancement bonus by +2 and adds another +2d6 damage on top vs the keyed creature type. Also, the boosted Enhancement bonus counts towards bypassing material-based Damage Reduction. I suppose there's a reason why CRPGs tend to be rather stingy with those weapons. xD

I know! I was hoping for a proper bane weapon when I saw the name too. Still super handy for dealing with the branded trolls though, and the placement seems very deliberate.

Ekundayo (sp?) Is a fairly straightforward archer ranger with 16 Strength, 20 dex and just enough wisdom to use his spells. He has the archery feat tree well underway and boon companion as his only non-archery feat to bring his doggy up to strength. He should compare pretty favourably, though may be underleveled with exp share turned off.

[Narkis]

Well, that was embarrassing.

Spoiler: Stag Lord fight

Show

The fight itself was tough, but I eventually managed to prevail without losing anyone, not even Kressle and Akiros. After my victory, I breathed a sigh of relief and split my half-dead party in order to loot all the things. And then I ran into a group of bandits that hadn't gotten the memo about their boss's death. Who promptly murdered my weakened and disorganised people without breaking a sweat. And to top it off, I'd neglected to save after my earlier victory. I now have to kill the Stag Lord all over again.

Guess that's enough gaming for today.

[Renegade Paladin]

Yeah, the bandits don't immediately surrender after you kill the Stag Lord.

Spoiler: Act Three

Show

Anyway, where the heck is the goblin village supposed to be? I was told in court that we'd located it and it was marked on my map, and the journal confirms as much and says the next stage of the quest is to go there, but I can't find it anywhere. And to top it all off, Kesten Garess is still missing from my throne room even though I finished his mission to the shrine of Lamashtu.

[Spore]

Amri's sword is already +1, sort of makes up for -2 hit from oversized.

But in the long run her enchantment costs are triple that of other weapons...

[Firechanter]

Well. Mathematically, for average ACs, the +1 Ginormous Sword delivers pretty much the same average as a regular, non-MW Greatsword. As soon as you pick up a Masterwork Greatsword, that will be more effective. So Amiri is fighting an uphill battle either way.

[Narkis]

I've run into my first couple of bugs: The contents of my throne room chest appear duplicated, though it's just a visual glitch and I don't get a second copy if I withdraw them to my inventory. And

Spoiler: early chapter 2 sidequest

Show

The lumberjacks and the dryad both act as if I murdered the other when I resolved the situation peacefully.

Regongar has also shown his evil side now that I took power. He's still a powerhouse, but he doesn't seem so jolly now.

[Spore]

Regongar feels like a dubious choice in any group with Linzi but my MC is CG/CNish so she takes power rather than ignoring it becausse of philosophical reasons. That and Amiri is starting to tick me off right when she decided she can solo Riptooth.

[Narkis]

Regongar feels like a dubious choice in any group with Linzi but my MC is CG/CNish so she takes power rather than ignoring it becausse of philosophical reasons. That and Amiri is starting to tick me off right when she decided she can solo Riptooth.

Yeah, I've benched Amiri as well. Regongar clashes somewhat fiercely with my all my NG self, Valerie, Linzi and even Octavia, but I've become addicted to his Shocking Grasp that explodes people.

[Kaptin Keen]

Ok - one word: Do I buy this, yes or no? :p

[Narkis]

Ok - one word: Do I buy this, yes or no? :p

I'll answer with a couple questions: How much did you like Baldur's Gate? And what's your tolerance for bugs? Cause those are pretty much the best and worst this game has to offer.

[Kaptin Keen]

I'll answer with a couple questions: How much did you like Baldur's Gate? And what's your tolerance for bugs? Cause those are pretty much the best and worst this game has to offer.

Ach - you fail terribly at yes-or-no answers.

I loved BG to bits, and I'm barely bothered by non-CTD bugs.

[Firechanter]

Then go ahead and grab it. ^^

[Kaptin Keen]

Then go ahead and grab it. ^^

Ok - but you're supposed to say Yes! :p

Anyways, thanks, I will. Even if I'm tempted to ask: This, or Divinity 2?

[Narkis]

Ach - you fail terribly at yes-or-no answers.

I loved BG to bits, and I'm barely bothered by non-CTD bugs.

What can I say, it's a gift.

I'd say go for it. It's the closest anything has come to Baldur's Gate in recent year, and it scratches that itch much better than Pillars and the like. No one has complained about CTD bugs, just broken quests and occasionally mechanics. And if you wait those are gonna get fixed soon enough, the devs have been putting out 3 patches a week.

edit: I haven't played D:OS 2 so I can't answer that. But I disliked D:OS 1's parody writing, and its tbs combat while good was not enough to keep me interested.

[Tome]

Ok - but you're supposed to say Yes! :p

Anyways, thanks, I will. Even if I'm tempted to ask: This, or Divinity 2?

Divinity 2.

This one needs some patching still.

[Firechanter]

Currently I'm a bit miffed because the previous patch or two have made the game worse; hoping that the latest fix is actually gonna remedy this. But how a 100MB patch can break something that requires a 3GB patch to repair, is beyond me.

Either way. Owlcat has announced that while they'll keep addressing problems bit by bit and churning out patches, there's gonna be one big update on iirc Oct 22. So if you can hold your horses another two weeks, fine. Personally I originally wanted to wait but then the hype got the better of me, and with the exception of the 1.0.6 bug I've been very happy with the game, and the worst it did to me is wreak total havoc on my day/night cycle. xD

[Kaptin Keen]

edit: I haven't played D:OS 2 so I can't answer that. But I disliked D:OS 1's parody writing, and its tbs combat while good was not enough to keep me interested.

Have D:OS1 but haven't finished it yet - and the one thing I didn't like about it was their attempts at humor. Well, that and that the boss fights generally were gimmicky.

[Narkis]

Have D:OS1 but haven't finished it yet - and the one thing I didn't like about it was their attempts at humor. Well, that and that the boss fights generally were gimmicky.

Yep, that's the exact thing that turned me off that game as well.

[Aotrs Commander]

Either way. Owlcat has announced that while they'll keep addressing problems bit by bit and churning out patches, there's gonna be one big update on iirc Oct 22. So if you can hold your horses another two weeks, fine.

I certainly can.



Especially as I have (pertinently to the last couple of posts) just started Divity: Original Sin 1 Enhanced Edition.

[Sloanzilla]

Is rapid shot supposed to be two damage rolls on a single hit? Because that is what I'm seeing?

Also, I don't think monsters have max dex bonuses with armor. Scale Mail should not also allow you to have a +5 dex bonus.

Also why aren't these skeleton archers giving me attacks of opp?

[Longes]

Ok - but you're supposed to say Yes! :p

Anyways, thanks, I will. Even if I'm tempted to ask: This, or Divinity 2?

Divinity OS2 has a vastly superior combat system. Everything else is better in Kingmaker.

[Firechanter]

[1] Is rapid shot supposed to be two damage rolls on a single hit? Because that is what I'm seeing?

[2] Also, I don't think monsters have max dex bonuses with armor. Scale Mail should not also allow you to have a +5 dex bonus.

[3] Also why aren't these skeleton archers giving me attacks of opp?

ad 1, no it's not supposed to be 2 rolls for one hit; Rapid Shot should (and as far as I saw so far, does) give you an extra attack, and all attacks are at -2 To Hit

ad 2, yeah that mistake is already pretty common in the published adventures. The way stat inflation works in this game certainly doesn't take profanities like MaxDex into account. :p But at the end of the day, it's something like 2 AC difference. You get shortchanged worse in other departments of the game (XP, loot prices).

ad 3, maybe they are all level 6 Fighters and have Point Blank Mastery
Well, the game doesn't seem to feature 5' Steps either, which would allow you to move out of reach without provoking AoOs, so this isn't that big of a deal.

[Inarius]

Is rapid shot supposed to be two damage rolls on a single hit? Because that is what I'm seeing?

Also, I don't think monsters have max dex bonuses with armor. Scale Mail should not also allow you to have a +5 dex bonus.

Also why aren't these skeleton archers giving me attacks of opp?

The rapid shot thing seems like a mistake on the devs part with how they designed the feat. As for 5 dex with scale mail, its possible with enough fighter levels due to one of the class features they have which reduces armor check penalties and increases the max dex bonus allowed by 1 every 3(4?) levels.