Why are Miko's parents dead?

[KorvinStarmast]

...Don't tempt me.

I was astonished to learn fairly recently that Michiko Nishiwaki was an actual Japanese martial artist/stunt actress/action diva who lost her father at an early age, prompting her to become a champion bodybuilder and enter the hong kong film industry.

If this is who Rich had in mind when writing Miko, I can see how he had Roy drooling at first contact ...
More on Michiko here if one is interested in poses with a sword, etc.

[Lacuna Caster]

If this is who Rich had in mind when writing Miko, I can see how he had Roy drooling at first contact ...

I know, right? She's incredible. (Also did Lucy Liu's stunt work for Charlie's Angels, but hasn't been seen from since. Damn shame.)

[137beth]

748 seems to imply that Belkar at least remembers Basic D&D. Any age rules back then to make things even more of a mess?

If you put Tolkien into the mess, we have halflings that only reach adulthood at 33.

But Tolkien plagurized halflings hobbits from The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Did Baum ever say anything about munchkin lifespans? Not that it would matter if he did, since Baum had trouble keeping details consistent from one page to the next, let alone from book to book.

[Kish]

Uh?

I'm not seeing anything hobbits have in common with munchkins beyond size.

If, and from where I'm sitting this is a huge massive if, it actually has anything to do with hobbits or halflings, munchkins, like every other resident of the Land of Oz including humans who moved there, were immortal and nearly unkillable.

[Keltest]

Werent Tolkien's hobbits, to the extent that they were based on anything more than idealized English country folk, inspired by various gnome-analogues of norse and celtic mythologies?

[martianmister]

Actually, both Hobbits and Dwarves are based on the dwarfs from Walt Disney's Snow White and Seven Dwarfs.

[Snails]

Actually, both Hobbits and Dwarves are based on the dwarfs from Walt Disney's Snow White and Seven Dwarfs.

Well played.

[KorvinStarmast]

But Tolkien plagurized halflings hobbits from The Wonderful Wizard of Oz.

Nope.

Just out of curiosity, where do you get that idea? "Little people" like pixies, brownies, faeries, imps, jacks in the green, gnomes, elves of varying kinds, etcetera have been fixtures in European folk lore for a very, very long time.

@Keltest: yeah
@martianmaster: *chuckle*

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Well played.

Durin the Deathless is totally Sleepy. I've been saying this for years, and nobody believes me.

[hroþila]

Durin the Deathless is totally Sleepy. I've been saying this for years, and nobody believes me.

Gimli at Lothlórien might be Bashful.

[137beth]

The truth is that every halfling/hobbit/dwarf/munchkin/pixie/gnome is actually Banjo in disguise. But Banjo is crafted from yarn, and Odin has seen yarn winding yarn. Therefore, Banjo is in the process of creating more halflings right now!

[KorvinStarmast]

The truth is that every halfling/hobbit/dwarf/munchkin/pixie/gnome is actually Banjo in disguise. But Banjo is crafted from yarn, and Odin has seen yarn winding yarn. Therefore, Banjo is in the process of creating more halflings right now!

Oh my goodness, why didn't I see this coming?

The halflings will rebuild the Eastern Pantheon in their own image and likeness, elevating (as replacement for Ares) Belkar to deity status: the Sexy Shoeless God of War.

[Jasdoif]

I will admit, one of the major reasons I like Miko is that she specifically didn't put up with the Order's crap.

Miko is nobody's toy. Not Roy's, and not Shojo's. Her independent self-confidence, and her ability to slash a problem into submission far more easily than talking it into reason, is what drives her the whole way through the comic. Including when she discovered Shojo prevented her from personally bringing justice to a murderer, the same murderer he secretly released from imprisonment and casually conversed with.

[hamishspence]

In order to avoid further derailing other threads, I'm replying to a comment from the Trans Characters thread, here:

Yes, and I don't consider this to reflect particularly well on Roy. Seizing on the harsh language as a basis for "aha! Now I have deep and damning insight into your true character!" seems kinda petty and superficial when he could have been seizing on a dozen other telling things she did, including paying his bills and thwarting regicide. It's terrible logic.

It isn't just that - it's that, as Elan put it, Miko has been "mean" to them almost from the beginning:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0231.html

As The Giant put it:

For the record, yes, being stubborn, judgmental, and unwilling to consider that she was incorrect even in the face of overwhelming evidence were pretty much Miko's defining characteristics. That she occasionally overcame them from time to time only proves that she was a person and not a caricature. It does not nullify the underlying traits, in the same way that one would still say that Vaarsuvius is verbose, even though he/she sometimes gives a one-word response.

[Lacuna Caster]

It isn't just that - it's that, as Elan put it, Miko has been "mean" to them almost from the beginning:

Yes, and I'm baffled as to why Elan should be taken as some font of deep wisdom in this regard. Half of the order had been verbally abusive to eachother on a regular basis, not least Roy toward himself.

Given that I disagree profoundly with the author on a number of these points, why do you think quoting him is going to sway me?

[hamishspence]

Given that I disagree profoundly with the author on a number of these points, why do you think quoting him is going to sway me?

I don't.

But it might sway others, who agree with me that the author is the one in the best position to know about the personality traits of characters they created,

but who don't yet know the author's opinions about Miko.

[Lacuna Caster]

Well, unfortunately, he also has this choice remark to make:

If Durkon was going to attack someone because that person has a job working for a predominantly Evil nation, he would be a female samurai-paladin and we would call him "Miko."

This strikes me as odd, because I recall that once upon a time, when people were accusing Miko of reflexively butchering every usual-evil species she came across, he took it upon himself to tell the readership explicitly that this was not true, in a forum post regrettably now lost to server glitches.

Does he not remember doing this? Or did he quietly substitute a different character and hoped that no-one would notice?

[martianmister]

It isn't just that - it's that, as Elan put it, Miko has been "mean" to them almost from the beginning:

Didn't you call it as Elan being oversensitive?

[Kish]

Well, unfortunately, he also has this choice remark to make:



This strikes me as odd, because I recall that once upon a time, when people were accusing Miko of reflexively butchering every usual-evil species she came across, he took it upon himself to tell the readership explicitly that this was not true, in a forum post regrettably now lost to server glitches.

Does he not remember doing this? Or did he quietly substitute a different character and hoped that no-one would notice?

There is a difference between a species and a nation. Miko's first encounter with the Order featured her discarding orders to "try hard to bring them back alive for trial" in favor of quickly attacking, so it's clear*, without reference to Word of the Author in either direction, that Miko places attacking perceived evil above any reasonable* definition of following orders, and since she tried to kill the entire Order after confirming that one-third of them glowed red to her magic-vision, "predominantly" wouldn't save the employee in question either.

*Take it as read that you disagree with these characterizations.

[hamishspence]

Didn't you call it as Elan being oversensitive?

I said Elan was possibly oversensitive with regard to Miko being mean to him:

I believe that what convinced Elan that she was being mean to him (possibly a case of Elan being oversensitive and not getting how annoying he was being) was the events of this strip:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0209.html

Well, unfortunately, he also has this choice remark to make:

If Durkon was going to attack someone because that person has a job working for a predominantly Evil nation, he would be a female samurai-paladin and we would call him "Miko."

Which is exactly what Gin-Jun is trying to teach her, that "hobgoblins are predominantly Evil, so don't worry about your lack of Detect Evil, when it comes to attacking them"

[martianmister]

I said Elan was possibly oversensitive with regard to Miko being mean to him:

Eh, I think it's more likely that Elan is affected by the animosity between Haley and Miko.

[hamishspence]

Eh, I think it's more likely that Elan is affected by the animosity between Haley and Miko.

There wasn't any overt animosity between Haley and Miko in front of Elan until after the inn was destroyed. Miko complains about the cost of the inn stuff, when they're signing in, but she doesn't actually say anything nasty about Haley there.

Note that Elan says "V, me, and you" are the ones Miko is mean to. Not Haley.

[Kish]

Miko's clash with Elan while she was traveling with the Order was mainly about him being annoying. A lot like Roy's, and indeed Miko was considerably nicer to Elan than Roy was verbally--though Elan didn't see it that way, probably because he was interposing "Roy is my big brother!" stuff in place of everything Roy was actually saying.

Her clashes with Haley and especially Vaarsuvius were more serious. Whether that reflects badly on Miko is still debatable (Vaarsuvius has always been a conceited snob who treats most people with contempt and howls when not treated with respect, and I'm inclined to take as a given that even though Miko didn't actually hear Vaarsuvius call her "this foul shrew," she could pick up an idea of Vaarsuvius' attitude toward her in a hurry).

Her clash with Belkar, of course, was nearly lethally serious, which is entirely to Miko's credit in my eyes. (Insert my standard comment about the amount of innocent blood on Roy's hands because he decided personal loyalty mattered more than he's an asterisking serial killer.)

As for the way Miko acted toward Roy, even Roy conceded that it was hugely inappropriate for him to address a warrior he'd just met as "baby" and hit on her constantly, for all of one strip before moving on to "overbearing self-righteous bitch."

[hamishspence]

I recall that once upon a time, when people were accusing Miko of reflexively butchering every usual-evil species she came across, he took it upon himself to tell the readership explicitly that this was not true, in a forum post regrettably now lost to server glitches.

I've been going back through some of the oldest threads when this argument was raised- where one would have expected somebody to quote The Giant to support their case - and I can't find any such quotes - which would still be present even if the links themselves wouldn't work.

[Kish]

Check for someone asserting that Miko would butcher kobolds without hesitation. Rich responded to it directly.

[georgie_leech]

Check for someone asserting that Miko would butcher kobolds without hesitation. Rich responded to it directly.

I can find a post by you referencing said post, but I can't seem to find the post itself. I don't suppose you remember what the original topic was, or even better, have a link?

[Kish]

No, I don't have a link. I think the thread was started by someone posting that there weren't enough kobolds in the comic, or something like that.

[hamishspence]

I think this was the first time you mentioned the incident - in 2006, not long after it took place, it would appear:

A lot of people dislike paladins for reasons that have nothing to do with badly played paladins. We've even seen it here, with people assuming Miko actually felt genocidal hatred for kobolds which was never even implied.

[Kish]

Well, obviously, it had to happen after Miko showed up, so 2xx being the current comic is to be expected.

[Peelee]

In an attempt to steer Miko conversation away from the trans representation thread...

Yes, and I don't consider this to reflect particularly well on Roy. Seizing on the harsh language as a basis for "aha! Now I have deep and damning insight into your true character!" seems kinda petty and superficial when he could have been seizing on a dozen other telling things she did, including paying his bills and thwarting regicide. It's terrible logic.

And yet even Miko's first argument against Roy's invective isn't a refutation, but an "I outrank you socially so shut up" attempt to stop hearing the accusations. If you argue that Roy's comments don't reflect well on him, then surely you will agree that Miko's rebuttall reflects every worse on her. Call me an optimist.