OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

[Kish]

From where I'm standing, this is where the debate started.

Simply mentioning Miko, even asking wowweed to clarify something (which turned into a two-post exchange: I asked, they answered) does not constitute starting a debate.

Yes, that's my point. The definition of Lawful Neutral that the giant has supplied is actually compatible with any alignment as long as you're zealous enough about it. It's basically meaningless.


Yeah, except I don't actually see this in evidence. All of the arguments that can be used to imply that Miko was less-than-ideally-good can also be argued to imply that she was less-than-ideally-lawful. I don't agree with most of those arguments, but if you're gonna say cherry-picking orders and giving opponents minimal warning is a borderline-good thing to do, it's also borderline-lawful.

[The Aboleth]

But the only reason to go look at the other Gates is in order to find, and ultimately stop, Xykon. This has literally been the main quest-line for the entire story, how is this in any way contentious?

It's the main quest for The Order of the Stick, not for Shojo. If the strip was called Shojo and the Sapphire Guard the main quest would likely be different.

Much of your problem seems to be that Shojo did not take the most efficient actions, to which I reply "So?" Most people don't. I never take the most efficient route in the grocery store when buying food, and I think we can agree the fate of the world doesn't rest on my ability to buy groceries in the most expedient fashion. That a ruler--and an admittedly paranoid one, at that--took actions some might deem "inefficient" is not all that surprising, and definitely isn't inconsistent or narrative-breaking. It seems like you want Shojo to be someone else entirely.

[Lacuna Caster]

Shojo's objective was not to destroy Xykon. It was to defend the Gates...

Literally all covered one page ago.


You know what, I'm gonna be the bigger person here and just move on. So how 'bout them Slaadi oocytes, huh? Do you think they're in the wrists?

[hamishspence]

Or again, how the Outsiders might feel about having their memories erased. Well, I suppose by definition they don't feel one way or another about it, but I was wondering if they kept their class levels.

I would guess that the gods with access to it, used Alter Reality to duplicate the Mindrape spell (evil gods) or the Programmed Amnesia spell (nonevil gods).

Or, if the gods in question were spellcasters, they could have just known the spells and cast them the normal way.

Those spells are pretty freeform - you can do what you like to memory, and as far as I can tell, there's no requirement to remove class levels while doing so.

[The_Weirdo]

Literally all covered one page ago.


You know what, I'm gonna be the bigger person here and just move on. So how 'bout them Slaadi oocytes, huh? Do you think they're in the wrists?

Let me help you in honor of Alien Cs. Predator (the Cs. stands for Carousel):

What are oocytes?

[Lacuna Caster]

Let me help you in honor of Alien Cs. Predator (the Cs. stands for Carousel):

What are oocytes?

I'm glad you asked, Wierdo! It's a fascinating topic pertaining to the female reproductive cycle, and I'm assuming that 'egg cells' loosely correlate with whatever a Slaad injects into the host body with it's claws. But how do they ensure genetic diversity? Is the tadpole a clone of the parent, or does it borrow traits from the host? Let's find out!

[The_Weirdo]

I'm glad you asked, Wierdo! It's a fascinating topic pertaining to the female reproductive cycle, and I'm assuming that 'egg cells' loosely correlate with whatever a Slaad injects into the host body with it's claws. But how do they ensure genetic diversity? Is the tadpole a clone of the parent, or does it borrow traits from the host? Let's find out!

Genetic diversity can be explained by them having two "sets" of genes within their DNA: one set is immutable and grants the basic traits, along with assuring stuff like the ability to move, no genetic problems, etc. The other is mutable as all (your ad here)s and changes from oocyte to oocyte.

[Fyraltari]

Genetic diversity can be explained by them having two "sets" of genes within their DNA: one set is immutable and grants the basic traits, along with assuring stuff like the ability to move, no genetic problems, etc. The other is mutable as all (your ad here)s and changes from oocyte to oocyte.

That's not how genetics works.

[The Pilgrim]

Literally all covered one page ago.

Except for the part were you have no proof that Lord Shojo knew about the existance of the Oracle.

Or proof that a prophecy issued by an infamous evil Goddess from a rival pantheon through a kobold would be believed by the Paladins of the Sapphire Guard as information credible enough for them to consider breaking their most sacred oath.

[hamishspence]

But how do they ensure genetic diversity? Is the tadpole a clone of the parent, or does it borrow traits from the host? Let's find out!

Based on the MM, a slaad that has taken levels in a class, and implants somebody, would apparently create a basic "slaad" with the listed statblock - no traits from the host, and no traits are carried over from the parent.

Not just that, but as I recall, red slaad always create blue slaad from their hosts, not more red slaadi.

And vice versa.

The one exception is when the host is an arcane spellcaster. Then a green slaad is always produced.

Green slaadi evolve into higher slaadi, and as far as I can tell, don't reproduce at all.

[Fyraltari]

Or that a prophecy issued by an infamous evil Goddess from a rival pantheon through a Kobold would be believed by the Paladins as information credible enough for them to consider breaking their most sacred oath.

Wouldn't the Memory Charm take care of that though?

[The_Weirdo]

That's not how genetics works.

Aren't you glad I'm not a doctor?

And, well, if you're skilled at this field, do tell us your theory. What do you do for a living anyways?

[The Pilgrim]

Wouldn't the Memory Charm take care of that though?

More to my point. I am sure the Paladins would have taken a vague prophecy issued by an oracle they don't remember and backed by their senile Lord speaking trough his cat as definitely solid proof that they needed to break their oath.

[Fyraltari]

Aren't you glad I'm not a doctor?

And, well, if you're skilled in this field, do tell us your theory. What do you do for a living anyways?

My theory: A wizard did it.

[The_Weirdo]

My theory: A wizard did it.

Which of the many wizards in all of the D&D worlds?

[Lacuna Caster]

I would guess that the gods with access to it, used Alter Reality to duplicate the Mindrape spell (evil gods) or the Programmed Amnesia spell (nonevil gods).

Isn't it neat how two spells can do exactly the same things, and one is intrinsically Evil and the other isn't?

I do have to wonder what kind of memories they'd need to implant to 'smooth over' the transition, though. Or do the outsiders just 'wake up' assuming they were created with a bunch of class levels for free?

Based on the MM, a slaad that has taken levels in a class, and implants somebody, would apparently create a basic "slaad" with the listed statblock - no traits from the host, and no traits are carried over from the parent.

Not just that, but as I recall, red slaad always create blue slaad from their hosts, not more red slaadi.

Is there any difference if the Slaad didn't take class levels, or did I miss something?

[hamishspence]

I'm glad you asked, Wierdo! It's a fascinating topic pertaining to the female reproductive cycle, and I'm assuming that 'egg cells' loosely correlate with whatever a Slaad injects into the host body with it's claws.

"Egg pellets" are injected by red slaadi - and the result is an Aliens-esque birth of a blue slaad - result - one blue slaad and one corpse.

Whereas blue slaad carry a transformative disease - those slashed by blue slaadi who survive, eventually mutate into red slaadi - result - one red slaad, and no corpse.


The only way in 3.5 to duplicate what's described in strip 1147 - a red slaad producing another red slaad (hence the newborn "implanting the nurse" rather than "infecting the nurse") is for that slaad to have the slaad brooder PRC from Savage Species. A high level slaad brooder can implant egg pellets that hatch as red, blue, or green slaad.

Is there any difference if the Slaad didn't take class levels, or did I miss something?

As far as I can tell, it doesn't matter what the "parent slaad"'s stats are. They might have extra hit dice, having been "advanced", they might have class levels, but the newborn slaad will always have the basic number of hit dice, and no class levels.

Isn't it neat how two spells can do exactly the same things, and one is intrinsically Evil and the other isn't?

Programmed Amnesia is more limited than Mindrape, and slower. It takes longer to make the changes with it, and you can't make as significant changes.

[Doug Lampert]

I really don't understand why people are still bothering to argue with either The_Weirdo or Lacuna Caster.

Duty Calls.

That or inability to use the ignore function.

[KorvinStarmast]

Let's find out!

Only if the slaad agrees to show up wearing leather and carrying lots of Wesson oil.

What?

[The_Weirdo]

Duty Calls.

Huh. Huhuhuh. Huh. He said 'duty'. Uhuhuhuh.

[Rrmcklin]

Duty Calls.

That or inability to use the ignore function.

To be fair, the ignore function doesn't help much when other people are still discussing with the people you're ignoring, and it comes to dominate the conversation for a bit.

[Doug Lampert]

To be fair, the ignore function doesn't help much when other people are still discussing with the people you're ignoring, and it comes to dominate the conversation for a bit.

It only makes the conversation better by eliminating roughly 50% of the nonsensical and irrelevant posts, but it does prevent replying to the ignored posters, and the question I was responding to, was, "why are people responding?"

If the respondents would put two posters on ignore, the conversation can return to the comic, or to jedi, or to marvel universe, or to whatever.

[Peelee]

It only makes the conversation better by eliminating roughly 50% of the nonsensical and irrelevant posts, but it does prevent replying to the ignored posters, and the question I was responding to, was, "why are people responding?"

If the respondents would put two posters on ignore, the conversation can return to the comic, or to jedi, or to marvel universe, or to whatever.

Jedi, you say?

[The_Weirdo]

Jedi, you say?

I've got this.

*Ahem*

Is Miko a Jedi?

[Dion]

Which of the many wizards in all of the D&D worlds?

All of them do.

All of the wizards get together at the end of time and cast a giant epic level time shift spell and retroactively create slaads.

Except Eugene. Even after 60 billion years, Eugene is still a jerk.

[The_Weirdo]

All of them do.

All of the wizards get together at the end of time and cast a giant epic level time shift spell and retroactively create slaads.

Except Eugene. Even after 60 billion years, Eugene is still a jerk.

A jerk Eugene may be, but I don't think "not wanting to partake in the creation of a race that reproduces Alien-style" is a jerk move specifically...

Unless, of course, the Slaadi are needed for a grand reason only Wizards can understand.

Such as implanting the right people.

Oh gods.

Slaadi are a tool of Law!!!

[Werbaer]

I really don't understand why people are still bothering to argue with either The_Weirdo or Lacuna Caster.

I really would like it if posts quoting people on my ignore list would be ignored, too.
Would make threads like this one much easier to read.

[Dion]

Unless, of course, the Slaadi are needed for a grand reason only Wizards can understand.]!!!

They’re trying to create a salad with purple quiddity so that TDO doesn’t survive the interstitial, and the wizards can kill goblins with impunity.

It’s part of a complicated time travel thing. I can’t explain it. I’m not smart like a wizard.

[Keltest]

They’re trying to create a salad with purple quiddity so that TDO doesn’t survive the interstitial, and the wizards can kill goblins with impunity.

It’s a complicated time travel thing.

But what if The Dark One is a Slaad!?

[Goblin_Priest]

Jedi, you say?

Anakin brought balance to the force.

Before ep. 3, there was 2 sith, and over 9000 jedi.

After ep. 3, there was 2 sith, and 2 jedi.

Then, when Yoda died, he killed the emperor, to make it 1-1. But then he also realized that Luke wasn't really a true jedi master, as no council ever gave him the rank, so he offed himself, making it 0-0.

Anakin always brought balance to the force, as the prophecy foretold!