Monster races: Are they trash? A repost.

[Error-4-oh-four]

Let's face it, Dungeons & Dragons hates monster PCs. How do y'all fix this when you're playing yours?

I was helpfully informed by Koo Rehtorb this would be better off here, as I was asking about 5e specifically.

[Unoriginal]

Let's face it, Dungeons & Dragons hates monster PCs.

This is wrong.

How do y'all fix this when you're playing yours?

There is nothing to fix.

Arguably the kobold and the orc having -2 to one stat is harsh, but that doesn't make them trash. They're still pretty nice.

[MaxWilson]

Let's face it, Dungeons & Dragons hates monster PCs. How do y'all fix this when you're playing yours?

I was helpfully informed by Koo Rehtorb this would be better off here, as I was asking about 5e specifically.

How do you mean the part in bold? While some of the monster races in Volo's are pretty bad, others are extremely powerful, so I presume you're not talking about the mechanics. Are you asking "What do you do in a world where your race is famous for being murderous murdering murderers?"

Generally you deal with that either by winning people over one at a time or by going somewhere where your racial reputation isn't that bad. E.g. in Spelljammer, Mind Flayers, Beholders, and Neogi are common enough and tolerated enough that you could still function in polite company and buy a house somewhere. Your neighbors would probably still eye you with suspicion (no pun intended in the case of beholders) but if you treated them okay they'd get over it eventually.

[strangebloke]

Let's face it, Dungeons & Dragons hates monster PCs. How do y'all fix this when you're playing yours?

I was helpfully informed by Koo Rehtorb this would be better off here, as I was asking about 5e specifically.

Mechanically? Sure, Orcs are weak, but other than that...

Goblins: Perfect Rangers, great fighters, clerics, and hilariously, decent bards.
Hobgoblins: Perfect Wizards
Bugbears: Unbelievably good barbarians.
Yuan-Ti: Busted good
Kobolds: Terrible unless you're in an underdark campaign, in which case they're stupidly good.

...I could go on.

In Flavor?

Uh, that's setting dependent, and region-dependent in individual settings. Nobody bats an eye at a Hobgoblin in Archora, those guys have peace with the goblinoids. But they hate drakonids there, so watch out if you're a lizardfolk or a dragonborn. If you're playing in Faerun specifically, well....

Yeah. Sorry. You're fresh outta luck. Maybe get a straw hat and keep telling people that you're *actually* an innocent gnome with a skin condition, and not a goblin at all?

[Error-4-oh-four]

After some confusion and some review, I have realized something: I'm really dumb and forgot I was looking at homebrew stuff on dandwiki.com. Forgive my foolishness and thanks for the info.

[Keravath]

The REAL stuff is in Volo's :)

There are a number of VERY playable races in there (and even some possibly OP - yuan-ti pureblood being one of the better examples)

.. though I have seen kobold rogues with pack tactics do very well too.

[MaxWilson]

Mechanically? Sure, Orcs are weak, but other than that...

I think orcs are fine for melee--it's just that melee is weak in 5E. But an orc makes a perfectly good Cavalier or Zealot or GWM Samurai or Moon Druid or other melee tank, arguably better than a half-orc or a mountain dwarf. Bonus action move is good for a tank, and Int penalty is nigh-irrelevant.

[Unoriginal]

If you're playing in Faerun specifically, well....

Yeah. Sorry. You're fresh outta luck. Maybe get a straw hat and keep telling people that you're *actually* an innocent gnome with a skin condition, and not a goblin at all?

Faerun's non-goblinoids aren't really anti-goblinoids.

Sure there are goblinoid raiders and wannabe-conquerors, but it's not like there isn't human raiders and wannabe-conquerors.

[Gastronomie]

My opinion is that, because the premise is wrong, the argument does not stand. I would appreciate it if you would be more specific on why you think "Dungeons & Dragons hates monster PCs" - which really is, your opinion, and one that I don't get at all at the moment.

If anything I nerf the Yuan-Ti and Bugbear at my table because I think they're overpowered.

[Son of A Lich!]

I skin Yuan-ti to try and make a cloak of spell resistance.

Now my DM thinks I'M evil. Steve shouldn't have rolled up a Yuan-ti if he didn't want to share that sweet, sweet racial.

The nerve of some players, I tell ya...

[The Jack]

I skin Yuan-ti to try and make a cloak of spell resistance.

Now my DM thinks I'M evil. Steve shouldn't have rolled up a Yuan-ti if he didn't want to share that sweet, sweet racial.

The nerve of some players, I tell ya...

I love it.



I hate the hobgoblin and the Orc.
Orc's a no brainer.
Hob is too wizard centric, sucks for martials.


The Yuan ti is too strong, as is the Tabaxi.

[MaxWilson]

The most interesting thing about Hobgoblin is that if you make a Hobgoblin War Wizard, you can have up to +9 to any save when you really need it. (There are potentially interesting synergies with Paladin and Lucky too.) A Moderately Armored Hobgoblin wizard isn't bad either, in games where no multiclassing is allowed.

It's really strange though that the Volo's Hobgoblin offers absolutely nothing for fighters, which are, y'know, the hobgoblin main shtick. I have in the past (before Volo's) given them Martial Advantage straight out of the MM, would consider doing so again as long as you're willing to give up the "saving face" thing. It would be very strong at very low levels though.