NASA scientist vs. Porch Pirates

[pendell]

NASA Scientist wins

I'm a bit frustrated that the police refused to do anything, even when the perps were caught on camera. But at least he got a little revenge.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[zlefin]

huh; not surprised the police didn't do anything though, given that a proper writeup could get the NASA guy in more trouble than the thieves, depending on the local law.

[Caerulea]

That is an amazing project, and an amazingly engineered response.

[Palanan]

This man is my hero.

I am in awe.

[Tvtyrant]

Personally I think a vial of skunk oil would be cheaper and more effective, but it is still funny.

[Fable Wright]

huh; not surprised the police didn't do anything though, given that a proper writeup could get the NASA guy in more trouble than the thieves, depending on the local law.

When he initially made the report, the only thing he had was surveillance footage monitoring the public areas of his own property. In the US (...where this is obviously set, because NASA), there are essentially zero laws restricting this. The only reason why the police did nothing is because tracking someone down when all you have is a face is rather difficult outside of China due to limited manpower.

I am incredulous that the police didn't bother to do anything about thieves in broad daylight, though. This seems like the reason we have police. Were they too busy writing parking tickets for neighborhoods where there are literally insufficient parking spaces to hold all the cars?

[The Random NPC]

When he initially made the report, the only thing he had was surveillance footage monitoring the public areas of his own property. In the US (...where this is obviously set, because NASA), there are essentially zero laws restricting this. The only reason why the police did nothing is because tracking someone down when all you have is a face is rather difficult outside of China due to limited manpower.

I am incredulous that the police didn't bother to do anything about thieves in broad daylight, though. This seems like the reason we have police. Were they too busy writing parking tickets for neighborhoods where there are literally insufficient parking spaces to hold all the cars?

You said it yourself, they can't track them down, and patrolling the area probably isn't the best use of their time either. The thing that would most likely force a police response is tracking the frequency and cost of the lost packages.

[Phhase]

The guilty pay the price. (=<

[pendell]

You said it yourself, they can't track them down, and patrolling the area probably isn't the best use of their time either. The thing that would most likely force a police response is tracking the frequency and cost of the lost packages.

So what I hear you saying is that if I want the police to prosecute a porch pirate I would have to apprehend them in the act?

Sounds like a sting operation in the making.
1) Collect data to demonstrate that a lot of porch piracy is occurring in the neighborhood.
2) Set out a decoy package with police in the house watching through security cams.
3) As soon as someone picks up the package, the cops come out and slap the cuffs on. Caught red-handed in front of LEO witnesses. Happy end.

Would that work?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[gomipile]

What the hell is this thread about? I see a link to YouTube in the OP, but I can't watch videos right now.

[HandofShadows]

IIRC I heard a new story where bait packages were set up by the police with the help of Amazon. Here it is. So some cops are working on it.

[pendell]

What the hell is this thread about? I see a link to YouTube in the OP, but I can't watch videos right now.

It's about the video in question, which is of a nasa engineer who created an ingenius pirate trap out of a decoy amazon package. 4 Smartphones + virtual fence around house + smell spray + glitter bomb. If the package was moved beyond the virtual fence the glitter and smell would trigger. The cameras on the phones captured both the faces and the reactions of the thieves to events, and the GPS locator on the phones allowed the engineer to recover the package after the thieves hastily abandoned their prize. The words alone don't do justice. I suggest you watch the video when you have the capability to do so.

IIRC I heard a new story where bait packages were set up by the police with the help of Amazon. Here it is. So some cops are working on it.

Excellent. It doesn't surprise me; I'm not usually the first person to think of a new idea.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[zlefin]

When he initially made the report, the only thing he had was surveillance footage monitoring the public areas of his own property. In the US (...where this is obviously set, because NASA), there are essentially zero laws restricting this. The only reason why the police did nothing is because tracking someone down when all you have is a face is rather difficult outside of China due to limited manpower.

I am incredulous that the police didn't bother to do anything about thieves in broad daylight, though. This seems like the reason we have police. Were they too busy writing parking tickets for neighborhoods where there are literally insufficient parking spaces to hold all the cars?

oh? I didn't watch the full thing so I didn't have the timing of what he told the police when. Still, he potentially could've gotten in a fair bit of trouble once everything came out.
dunno why the cops didn't respond; but it's possible they were all busy with higher priority calls at that time. And it's hard to catch people like that if you're not right on top of them, as they disappear fast.

[The Random NPC]

So what I hear you saying is that if I want the police to prosecute a porch pirate I would have to apprehend them in the act?

Sounds like a sting operation in the making.
1) Collect data to demonstrate that a lot of porch piracy is occurring in the neighborhood.
2) Set out a decoy package with police in the house watching through security cams.
3) As soon as someone picks up the package, the cops come out and slap the cuffs on. Caught red-handed in front of LEO witnesses. Happy end.

Would that work?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Not just catch them in the act, you have to show the cops that it's worth their time to investigate. Off the top of my head, there are three things that would do that.
1. Show that it happens frequently enough that it would embarrass the local cops/government.
2. Show that the damages are high enough that it would embarrass the local cops/government.
3. Do most of the work for them (for example, identifying the criminal so all they have to do is send a cop to their home).

[pendell]

According to the video, he first reported the issue to police along with security camera footage and received a flat no-sale from the police. That is when he resorted to glitter bomb vigilantism.

If there's any LEO (Law Enforcement Officers) here who'd like to comment, I'm curious myself as to why this would be. We've heard from one person up-thread that it's difficult to trace a person down based only on their face, and the cost of the package is such that it's very difficult to bring a prosecution that would be more than a misdemeanor in any event. It's not like they stole a car or jewelry or what not.

The enforcement also seems very uneven in different communities. Steve Locke , professor at Massachusetts Art, describes how he was set upon by multiple police cars because someone reported a break-in by someone roughly matching his description. He got out of it alive and un-arrested, but I can well understand his nervousness.

So in one section of the country you have an almost hyper-reactive response to report of a break-in, and in another incident almost complete ignorance of the incident in question. To a layperson these
incidents seem damning, although I daresay a LEO would have a different perspective on the matter.

If I had to guess, I would guess that the second incident involved serious money as opposed to a package, and that there had been an actual home invasion, which is taken more seriously than simply taking a package off of someone's porch.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Xyril]

Without getting into the more complex political factors (i.e., an elected state attorney or executive whose reputation has for some reason or another become tied to dealing with a certain class of crimes), there is generally an understandable bias towards crimes that harm people (i.e., assaults and murders) or have a high risk of harming people (i.e., break-ins, muggings, carjackings.) As others have alluded to, there's also often a high incentive towards the sort of enforcement that tends to bring in more fines at lower cost/risk to the department (parking and traffic tickets) or greater prestige to the people in charge, which generally coincides with high profile violent crimes, but not always (i.e., financial fraud over the last decade.)

Package theft is in that sweet spot of apathy where the effort required to close one case is high, the crime is prevalent so solving a dozen or so isn't going to bring in much prestige, porch pirates are cowardly by their nature so there haven't been any deaths or serious injuries associated with this kind of crime gone wrong, and on top of that all of the big shippers and online vendors offer (in theory) in person pickup in some form, so it's probably easy for the police to brush it off with some old fashion victim-blaming.

[Traab]

Without getting into the more complex political factors (i.e., an elected state attorney or executive whose reputation has for some reason or another become tied to dealing with a certain class of crimes), there is generally an understandable bias towards crimes that harm people (i.e., assaults and murders) or have a high risk of harming people (i.e., break-ins, muggings, carjackings.) As others have alluded to, there's also often a high incentive towards the sort of enforcement that tends to bring in more fines at lower cost/risk to the department (parking and traffic tickets) or greater prestige to the people in charge, which generally coincides with high profile violent crimes, but not always (i.e., financial fraud over the last decade.)

Package theft is in that sweet spot of apathy where the effort required to close one case is high, the crime is prevalent so solving a dozen or so isn't going to bring in much prestige, porch pirates are cowardly by their nature so there haven't been any deaths or serious injuries associated with this kind of crime gone wrong, and on top of that all of the big shippers and online vendors offer (in theory) in person pickup in some form, so it's probably easy for the police to brush it off with some old fashion victim-blaming.

Yeah basically this. A porch thief isnt usually stealing anything valuable enough to justify the man hours to track them down, and is also not a violent felon endangering others. Unless they stole it wearing their work id badge or something. Unless you can actually name the thief (Oddly a number tend to be neighbors) as well as have the video its just not a priority. It sucks but it makes sense logically.

[Tvtyrant]

You can also purchase and install a parcel drop box for $100, which in the case of the iphone booby trap is much cheaper then the trap.

[The Random NPC]

You can also purchase and install a parcel drop box for $100, which in the case of the iphone booby trap is much cheaper then the trap.

Boring, but practical. I think that's a trope.

[zimmerwald1915]

And yet all I can think of from this is that the engineer set up a chemical-weapon spring gun. That ain't kosher.

[OracleofWuffing]

Throwing more fuel on the "It's unfortunately not worth investigating" fire, think about what would occur after catching the thief. I didn't hear a dollar amount of what the initial stolen package, but it is likely petty theft. Officers and Courts all need their wages, too, and then you have a very small jail term, probationary period, or community service- all of which carry their own bureaucracy. Even if it makes the world a better place, it's quite likely that the amount of time and money you put into it will outweigh the value of the actual item. And yes, that really, really sucks. I'm... Kind of torn on this kind of vigilante action, because it looks cool and all, but I also hear horror stories of people that get glitter stuck under their eyelids and the "punishment" ends up accidentally going much farther than expected and needs surgery.

So in one section of the country you have an almost hyper-reactive response to report of a break-in, and in another incident almost complete ignorance of the incident in question. To a layperson these incidents seem damning, although I daresay a LEO would have a different perspective on the matter.

This variance is somewhat expected, generally every state has its own laws regarding theft.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The only time I've heard of police actually doing something about package theft instead of a bit of improv theater (if that) is when the packages contain pharmaceuticals. No surprise they won't act on anything else (including high end electronics, which shouldn't be exposed to the elements in the first place).

[The Random NPC]

And yet all I can think of from this is that the engineer set up a chemical-weapon spring gun. That ain't kosher.

Personally, I'd call it a non-lethal theft deterrent device, but fair enough.

[Brother Oni]

And yet all I can think of from this is that the engineer set up a chemical-weapon spring gun. That ain't kosher.

He could have filled it with the anti-theft powder/dye that shops and banks use.

Alternately he could have put a flashbang or a firework inside - that would definitely make the police take notice, although probably in the wrong way.

[pendell]

He could have filled it with the anti-theft powder/dye that shops and banks use.

Alternately he could have put a flashbang or a firework inside - that would definitely make the police take notice, although probably in the wrong way.

My understanding is that the anti-theft powder/dye banks use is a kind of bomb in its own right that can take fingers off. The wiki article describes it as a "radio-controlled incendiary device" which sounds much more likely to go wrong than a glitter bomb would.

I think some people are right up-thread; if a thief was injured by this homemade booby trap they could probably sue the homeowner and collect damages. Such is the perversity of modern law that a robbery victim is more likely to get in trouble for defending themselves from such a thief than the thief would for the original offense. If the thief is caught on petty theft, as OracleofWuffing pointed out, their public defender will probably plea bargain a first offense down to community service and they'll be back on the street boosting packages before the ink is dry on the sentence form. But physically injuring a thief over a $50 package? Or worse, killing them? That's some serious civil penalty and possible criminal charges in the bargain.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[zimmerwald1915]

I think some people are right up-thread; if a thief was injured by this homemade booby trap they could probably sue the homeowner and collect damages. Such is the perversity of modern law that a robbery victim is more likely to get in trouble for defending themselves from such a thief than the thief would for the original offense.

That's not perverse, that is moral. Bodily harm is worse to experience and harder to fix than theft, and inflicting bodily harm, especially when your body is safe at a distance from the thief and you work by means of a trap, is a disproportionate defense against mere loss of property.

[pendell]

That's not perverse, that is moral. Bodily harm is worse to experience and harder to fix than theft, and inflicting bodily harm, especially when your body is safe at a distance from the thief and you work by means of a trap, is a disproportionate defense against mere loss of property.

*Nods* And because the package isn't actually inside the victim's home, Stand Your Ground, Castle Doctrine, and Home Defense laws do not apply. It's amazing the grasp of law porch thieves have, considering that few of them have any legal training, or indeed education beyond high school.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[zimmerwald1915]

and on top of that all of the big shippers and online vendors offer (in theory) in person pickup in some form, so it's probably easy for the police to brush it off with some old fashion victim-blaming.

They also offer insurance, and even if you don't purchase that, probably care enough about not losing your business to replace a stolen item at no or minimal cost if you badger them.

[gomipile]

That's not perverse, that is moral. Bodily harm is worse to experience and harder to fix than theft, and inflicting bodily harm, especially when your body is safe at a distance from the thief and you work by means of a trap, is a disproportionate defense against mere loss of property.

Of course, the argument could be made that thieves have waived the right to such moral protections. Large numbers of people have decided that it is moral to amputate thieves, for example.

I'm not saying I agree with that, just pointing out that it is by definition up for debate on a global scale.

[Brother Oni]

My understanding is that the anti-theft powder/dye banks use is a kind of bomb in its own right that can take fingers off. The wiki article describes it as a "radio-controlled incendiary device" which sounds much more likely to go wrong than a glitter bomb would.

I would disagree on it being an incendiary device as the pack only reaches ~200C, which is below the ignition point of regular paper and cardboard, but enough to cause severe burns to a robber handling it directly. The picture on the wiki article shows the money burnt where the pack was in contact with, but the rest of the money is still intact.
I'd also question why banks are allowed to use such a device to protect its property and yet a private citizen isn't.

That said, the powder doesn't have to be dispersed by explosion - the aerosol system used to deliver the glitter would be adequate.

It's amazing the grasp of law porch thieves have, considering that few of them have any legal training, or indeed education beyond high school.

It's a form of natural selection - all the dumb ones get caught sooner rather than later, so it's only the smart ones left.