OOTS #1154 - The Discussion Thread

[Fyraltari]

Take a look at what Blackwing says that suggests female to me in a very blanton way.

Blackwing isn't in #1156. And if you meant #1154, women are no more likely to drink glasses of warm milk than men.

[D.One]

Take a look at what Blackwing says that suggests female to me in a very blanton way.

And am late to the party again?

Is drinking (cow) milk somehow an exclusive female and children habit in OotS?

[denthor]

Did mean 1154. Whoops.

Boob dripping?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

From the FAQ

Q: Is Vaarsuvius male or female?

A: I will never reveal the truth! Bwahaha! Keep in mind that while certain other characters might refer to V as being male or female, that simply reveals their perception, not the actual reality of the situation.

[D.One]

Did mean 1154. Whoops.

Boob dripping?

"Ruminant boob drippings", as in "cow milk", that V, differently from Elan, didn't need to drink in order to trance.

[Peelee]

As said, there is no debate. Although a statement was put out in December 2014:

In this way, Tarquin is also symbolic of an older time when stories were likely to be more formulaic or cliched - and less diverse. It's no accident that he's a wealthy old straight white man losing his marbles over the fact that the tale he is experiencing doesn't focus on the other straight white man at the expense of the black man, the woman, the genderqueer person, and even the Latino guest star.

ETA: Whoops. Looks like he put a lie to the FAQ, GW.

[Fyraltari]

Boob dripping?

A perfectly accurate description of milk.

[Kish]

Mentioning boobs in the same sentence as Vaarsuvius does not mean Vaarsuvius has boobs.

Unlike Roy.

(Nor does the reference to milk mean Vaarsuvius is lactating.)

(Though Vaarsuvius is established as a ruminant--well, half-camel--so Elan would see why you're confused.)

Blackwing did suggest female, but he suggested it about a cow, not about Vaarsuvius.

[Fyraltari]

Denthor, did you read that line as meaning that sometimes V lactates before trancing?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Also, I'm very much confused about the logic here. Elan required a glass of milk prior to sleeping. V did not. Therefore V is the opposite sex and/or gender from Elan?

Grey Wolf

[Vinyadan]

The 2014 quote doesn't necessarily invalidate the FAQ.

From Wikipedia, Genderqueer:

The term has also been applied by those describing what they see as a gender ambiguity.[9] Androgynous (also androgyne) is frequently used as a descriptive term for people in this category. This is because the term androgyny is closely associated with a blend of socially defined masculine and feminine traits.[10] However, not all genderqueer persons identify as androgynous. Some genderqueer people identify as a masculine woman or a feminine man or combine genderqueer with another gender option.[11]

So it's possible to be genderqueer and also be a man or a woman. Not that it really matters.

[enderlord99]

Mentioning boobs in the same sentence as Vaarsuvius does not mean Vaarsuvius has boobs.

Unlike Roy.

(Nor does the reference to milk mean Vaarsuvius is lactating.)

(Though Vaarsuvius is established as a ruminant--well, half-camel--so Elan would see why you're confused.)

Blackwing did suggest female, but he suggested it about a cow, not about Vaarsuvius.

This sounds about right.

By that, what I really mean is "This sounds, and probably is, exactly right."

[Peelee]

The 2014 quote doesn't necessarily invalidate the FAQ.

From Wikipedia, Genderqueer:


So it's possible to be genderqueer and also be a man or a woman. Not that it really matters.

Eh, I was just making a lame joke. Honestly, there's a certain point where I just don't understand things, and I try to default to "whatever lets people live their lives in peace and happiness." That way everyone is happy. At least, everyone who just gets along without having to worry about what's going on with other people.

[Morty]

Generally speaking, if the question is "does [insert strip] answer the question of V's sex/gender?", then the answer is "no".

[Gluteus_Maximus]

If anything, mentioning warm milk in the same sentence as V does LESS to go one of the two binary ways than characters in one comic calling V "he" or "she" with some corroboration.

[KorvinStarmast]

V probably told Elan:
Get some rest. If you haven't got your health, you haven't got anything
V doubtless left the feeding(via bottle or cup of warm milk) and tucking-in to Haley.

[Liquor Box]

It seems obvious Denthor interpreted blackwings statement to be that V's boobs were not dripping (with the possible inference that they sometimes do before V trances), whereas others have interpreted boob drippings to be a reference to milk. While I'm sure the later interpretation is probably correct (in part because of what Hayley had just said about Elan), I don't think the language itself precludes the earlier interpretation.

It may be that the Giant wrote that line in anticipation of the discussion that might follow (much like the line about Belkar being Durkon's fourth preferred marriage partner) because ruminant can refer to a goat or cow (animals commonly used for milk) or to a person who trances or meditates (which V is), leaving the interpretation open - so perhaps a deliberately chosen word.

[Mad Humanist]

It seems obvious Denthor interpreted blackwings statement to be that V's boobs were not dripping (with the possible inference that they sometimes do before V trances), whereas others have interpreted boob drippings to be a reference to milk. While I'm sure the later interpretation is probably correct (in part because of what Hayley had just said about Elan), I don't think the language itself precludes the earlier interpretation.

It may be that the Giant wrote that line in anticipation of the discussion that might follow (much like the line about Belkar being Durkon's fourth preferred marriage partner) because ruminant can refer to a goat or cow (animals commonly used for milk) or to a person who trances or meditates (which V is), leaving the interpretation open - so perhaps a deliberately chosen word.

I am pretty sure the Giant was thinking only of a verbose way of saying that V did not need a glass of warm milk to trance.

However this post then made me think: Ooh camels are actually ruminants, so this is a throw back to the "half-camel" joke.

What an excellent find! Except I'd thought I better check and apparently camels are not ruminants, in either the descriptive or the cladistic sense.

[martianmister]

Even if V is female, there is no reason to believe that her boobs would be dripping milk right now.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Even if V is female, there is no reason to believe that her boobs would be dripping milk right now.

Or indeed, that a male cannot produce milk. Since it is not unheard of for that to happen with advanced cirrhosis of the liver, I'd guess a non-insignificant portion of dwarves, male and female alike, might spontaneously lactate when one of their livers is giving up the ghost.

Grey Wolf

[KorvinStarmast]

Even if V is female, there is no reason to believe that her boobs would be dripping milk right now.

While I tend to agree (let down seems to be associated with ladies who are already lactating/breast feeding) there is the very small point of "how different are elven and human physiologies" to which the answer is "we are not sure." But that point is, as I see it, far too small to try and hang the idea of V spontaneously lactating onto.

When I first read that strip, it was obvious (in terms of context and V's habit of verbosity) that Blackwing was referring to someone else drinking milk.

But if Giant was slipping a secondary definition of ruminant to us, then well played / clever word play on his part.

@Grey_Wolf:

... I'd guess a non-insignificant portion of dwarves, male and female alike, might spontaneously lactate when one of their livers is giving up the ghost.

With all of the beer that dwarves drink, that might not be that rare of an occurrence!

(Elves, maybe not so much?)

[Fyraltari]

Or indeed, that a male cannot produce milk. Since it is not unheard of for that to happen with advanced cirrhosis of the liver

Wait, really?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Wait, really?

Yep. It was observed in modern times in starved survivors of WWII concentration camps, once their diets were restored to normal: they started producing the lactation hormone (helpfully called prolactin) faster than their recovering liver could metabolize it, so they started lactating.

Link

Grey Wolf

[Ildirin]

Snip

Just so you don't feel too alone here, I had to read that panel a couple of times to figure out what Blackwing was trying to say. The mix of verbose and slang in "ruminant boob drippings" threw me for a bit, I thought at first that somehow and for some reason V was trying to breastfeed Kudzu and managed not to get any milk on themself, which was pretty confusing.