Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot

[b_jonas]

And if you think that she was serious when she said they had more spells prepared to handle vampires, I'm afraid you've failed your sense motive check.

I do understand that she was bluffing when she said that. But Protection from Good is a level 1 cleric spell that she could prepare and that would protect her from vampire mind control. It's not foolproof, the vampires can remove it by spending a level 3 spell, but it's better than nothing. Minrah has 5 levels of cleric, and she says "Smashing the forces of Evil is why I joined the temple in the first place."

[D.One]

About the failed save:

It happens, even with the best modifiers... And Minrah might even have not been targeted by the Dominations, if they considered her less of a threat.



About Minrah's level:

Yeah, until we see her casting another 3rd level spell, the safer assumption is Cleric 4+

[Resileaf]

I do understand that she was bluffing when she said that. But Protection from Good is a level 1 cleric spell that she could prepare and that would protect her from vampire mind control. It's not foolproof, the vampires can remove it by spending a level 3 spell, but it's better than nothing. Minrah has 5 levels of cleric, and she says "Smashing the forces of Evil is why I joined the temple in the first place."

Smashing the forces of evil isn't specifically fighting vampires. That pretty much means fighting anything that's evil. And protection from evil is a spell that literally any good cleric should use, because it's just ridiculously powerful.

[b_jonas]

Smashing the forces of evil isn't specifically fighting vampires. That pretty much means fighting anything that's evil.

#1094 makes it clear enough that the group of guarsd were expecting that vampires could attack that night. And they didn't expect other kinds of evil creatures, because they let the Order in as soon as Minrah has assured that they weren't vampires. If werewolves had attacked that night, they could have gotten in the gate easily.

[Reboot]

#1094 makes it clear enough that the group of guarsd were expecting that vampires could attack that night.

Only because vampires has already attacked once the same night, after most of them had gone to bed.

If they'd been expecting vampires earlier, the main clergy would have been there and everyone would have had spells prepped for it, not leaving it to the "assistant overtaker acolytes", only one of whom had any combat spells at all ready.

[Resileaf]

#1094 makes it clear enough that the group of guarsd were expecting that vampires could attack that night. And they didn't expect other kinds of evil creatures, because they let the Order in as soon as Minrah has assured that they weren't vampires. If werewolves had attacked that night, they could have gotten in the gate easily.

Yes, they were expecting it because the vampires had attacked the other entrance to the temple only hours earlier and had no idea if they'd try again elsewhere. And Minrah allowed them in because Elan convinced her that the Order were friends and were fighting the vampires.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, and also because Roy had the runestone from High Priestess Rubyrock. That was the only reason they stopped to talk.

[b_jonas]

Only because vampires has already attacked once the same night, after most of them had gone to bed.

Ah, you're right, sorry. I forgot about that part of the story. That means the three guards probably didn't have had time to rest and prepare new spells since they found out about the vampires.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Correct. As Good-aligned clerics they prepare spells at dawn.

[Resileaf]

Well, and also because Roy had the runestone from High Priestess Rubyrock. That was the only reason they stopped to talk.

Well if you ask me, the reason they stopped to talk was because Minrah wanted to intimidate them into leaving because she knew that she did not have the means to stop them.

[Chronos]

I'm pretty sure that Minrah explicitly had Protection from Evil cast on herself before the Not-Durkon fight. Which went away with most of the other buffs, when the vampires spent the first round dispelling. Just like the Mind Blanks on Roy and V, and the Protection from Law that Hilgya wanded onto everyone else.

[Reboot]

I'm pretty sure that Minrah explicitly had Protection from Evil cast on herself before the Not-Durkon fight. Which went away with most of the other buffs, when the vampires spent the first round dispelling. Just like the Mind Blanks on Roy and V, and the Protection from Law that Hilgya wanded onto everyone else.

None of Roy, V or Minrah were ever dominated (V was shot in the back by Haley, Roy was taken out by the same Empowered Flame Strike from Hilgya that killed Minrah), so you can't say they were dispelled (Minrah's PfE probably was, I suppose, but there's no reason to think the Mind Blanks went away)

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yeah, even GDM isn't likely to quash an 8th.

[MultitudeMan]

So, Strip #1167 confirms Ponchula as Cleric 9+, from her use of Plane Shift. Also Not-Thad's blade is made of pure something-or-other, but it looks like Mr. Burlew wants to call speculation on his class and other features to an end :( .

[borg286]

I propose not-thad (Durkon's cousin's brother-in-law's niece's fiance) is a Incarnum Blade. The ease that not-thad chopped off the earth elemental's head implies that either it was tons of damage, or that the creature had damage reduction that this blade was able to bypass. It seems that earth elementals have DR 10/- which would apply to magic weapons, including the incarnum blade, so that is a point against Incarnum blade.
The blue text implies otherworldly, so I'm thinking either a class with a large wisdom boost, or Int boost and an appropriate class to match, but which one.
What are the extraplanar dwarves? What classes are associated with those races?

[Chronos]

The blue blade may well be incarnum, but probably not the Incarnum Blade PrC. The fact that he was at all competent in the fight is strong evidence against that PrC, which is one of the worst ever made. And it doesn't let you create a blade made of pure <whatever>; it just lets you (very slightly) enhance an existing one. If it's incarnum, it's probably the lawful version of the Incarnate Weapon soulmeld, which could mean that Not-Thad is an Incarnate, or it could mean that he's some other class who just has the Shape Soulmeld feat. Or, of course, he could be a Soulknife, or the sword could be a magic item.

It'd have helped a lot if he'd had the chance to finish his sentence, and tell us what his blade was pure.

[Quebbster]

So, Strip #1167 confirms Ponchula as Cleric 9+, from her use of Plane Shift. Also Not-Thad's blade is made of pure something-or-other, but it looks like Mr. Burlew wants to call speculation on his class and other features to an end :( .

Ponchula was the human vampire that got killed by Belkar, the name come from the last panel in this strip. The strip Before confirmed that the female dwarf vampire didn't have a name. Best suggestion I have seen on the forum is "Sandy" after her hair color.

[MultitudeMan]

Ponchula was the human vampire that got killed by Belkar, the name come from the last panel in this strip. The strip Before confirmed that the female dwarf vampire didn't have a name. Best suggestion I have seen on the forum is "Sandy" after her hair color.

My bad, I should have remembered that.

[D.One]

Ponchula was the human vampire that got killed by Belkar, the name come from the last panel in this strip. The strip Before confirmed that the female dwarf vampire didn't have a name. Best suggestion I have seen on the forum is "Sandy" after her hair color.

I still prefer to call her "NoName McFangs"

[Quartz]

Yeah, until we see her casting another 3rd level spell, the safer assumption is Cleric 4+

Just because she took a negative level doesn't mean that she failed the save to throw it off. Indeed, has sufficient time passed before the save becomes necessary? Further, Lesser Restoration is a trivial spell for Durkon or Hilgya and she's looking uninjured in #1162.

[Resileaf]

Just because she took a negative level doesn't mean that she failed the save to throw it off. Indeed, has sufficient time passed before the save becomes necessary? Further, Lesser Restoration is a trivial spell for Durkon or Hilgya and she's looking uninjured in #1162.

Getting resurrected is a permanent negative level if not done with true resurrection.

[Chronos]

Negative levels are not losing levels. A negative level gives you a save which, if you fail it, results in losing a level. Raise Dead or Resurrection just plain results in you losing a level, immediately, no save allowed.

I think you might be thinking of Pathfinder.

[D.One]

Negative levels are not losing levels. A negative level gives you a save which, if you fail it, results in losing a level. Raise Dead or Resurrection just plain results in you losing a level, immediately, no save allowed.

I think you might be thinking of Pathfinder.

Still about Minrah and NoName:

We see in panel 1 that NoName was unharmed. Then, at panel 3, NotThad appears to have hurt her with his mighty sword. In panel 8, when Minrah hits NoName, we see a "THONK", but no new hurt mark is there on panel 9. When she hits on panel 10, however, we see, on panel 11, a new hurt mark.

We might conclude that the first strike hit, but wasn't enough to defeat NoName's DR, and that the second strike could defeat the DR.

Since the weapon used was the same, and Vampires have DR 10/silver and magic, we may conclude that Minrah's hammer isn't silvered or isn't magical.

We may also conclude that Minrah's minimum damage can't be higher than 10, and that her maximum damage can't be lower than 11.

The information about the minimum damage isn't that useful, since it means only that she can't have a damage modifier (STR + magic + others) higher than +9 (since she's apparently using a warhammer).

OTOH, the information about the maximum damage tells us that her damage modifier can't be lower than +3. If we assume that all the bridge fight and crossing took less than a minute, she might still have the effect of the Divine Favor she cast (probably a +1 bonus, since it's unlikely she is a Cleric of 6th level). If so, her bonus sans the Divine Favor should still be +2 or more, but no greater than +8.

[Quartz]

Getting resurrected is a permanent negative level if not done with true resurrection.

D'oh! You are, of course, quite correct.

[Quartz]

Can we advance our knowledge of Minrah? It was a full vampire, not spawn, that Plane Shifted the Blue Dwarf and her attacks definitely do damage. See panels 8 and 11 of #1167.

[tyckspoon]

Can we advance our knowledge of Minrah? It was a full vampire, not spawn, that Plane Shifted the Blue Dwarf and her attacks definitely do damage. See panels 8 and 11 of #1167.

Hmm. Not really, I think. Vampires have DR 10/silver and magic; if Minrah can do damage to one, that tells us either she has a magic silvered warhammer, or she's capable of dealing more than 10 damage with a one-handed blow. Medium warhammer can roll up to 8 damage, so she needs at least +3 in assorted bonuses .. unfortunately there's too many ways to get those bonuses to pin down anything. Some mix of magical weapon, high Strength, feats, and "reminder that more buffing probably happens off panel!" could all be responsible for it, and there's nothing yet provided to help pin down any individual aspect.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, we saw her cast Divine Favor, so there is that.

[danielxcutter]

She's also high level enough to cast Bull's Strength even with the level loss.

Hmm, I wonder why she's using that hammer one-handed if she's not using a shield?

[D.One]

Can we advance our knowledge of Minrah? It was a full vampire, not spawn, that Plane Shifted the Blue Dwarf and her attacks definitely do damage. See panels 8 and 11 of #1167.

As I said before, since she caused damage with one strike and not with the other, we arrive at her damage bonus in a range of +2 to +8 (and that her weapon isn't silvered, or isn't magical, or isn't both, since it's the second time she fails to damage a full vampire). We still don't have much to say beyond that.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

So, Strip #1167 confirms Ponchula as Cleric 9+, from her use of Plane Shift. Also Not-Thad's blade is made of pure something-or-other, but it looks like Mr. Burlew wants to call speculation on his class and other features to an end :( .

Oh, right.

Sigh, I forgot Plane Shift and Teleport are 5th level in 3.x.

Silly 5e only having long distance teleportation/planar travel magic at 7th and up.