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2019-03-08, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Yah, that’s probably right. It seems, at minimum, a pretty munchkin move to open a gate to your goddess who happens to send through a creature to fight for you instead of regarding that as a summon, but there’s no particular RAW reason why that couldn’t be happening here.
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2019-03-08, 10:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Meridianville AL
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
I actually consider using Gate like some sort of uber summons to be the munchkin use. Calling a natural ally to come help you without compulsion is what I consider to be the reasonable use.
Gate in a servant of your goddess, chosen by your goddess, while on a vital mission for your goddess, and treat it as an ally rather than a special ability to summon anything up to double your HD and order it around. This is not the munchkin use.
[For the Record: I think the ExExarch is probably level 14 or so, but he hasn't done anything to demonstrate this level yet.]
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2019-03-09, 09:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Interesting. See, I feel like the gate spell contains specific limitations on strength of a summons as well as an extra cost to use it that way, so this feels like skirting that cost. Totally reasonable plot wise, but the whole “instructed by/ally of my goddess” part would seem to be encompassed mechanically as the mechanism by which you can summon something with a gate spell in the first place.
That said, this is probably vaguely off-topic since we are in agreement that this isn’t going to shed any light on the ex-Exarch’s level.
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2019-03-09, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
I would think the nightcrawler is uncontrolled, since the Exarch didn't pay it and yet probably wants it to stick around for more than 1 round/CL to guard the entrance. Of course the line "Fighting for you in a single battle" makes it a bit trickier. Can that battle be in the future? It seems it would be ridiculous to ask for a battle 100 years in the future or something, but maybe a short time in the future is okay? I would rule no to the first and yes to the second as a GM, but it seems like RAW it should be either no to both or yes to both. But despite this line, the Exarch seems to think Thor might send in some cavalry, so he probably wants it for more than a single battle.
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2019-03-10, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
I mean, technically we don’t know that yet, he could be about to command it or enter into a protracted 3-strip-long negotiation with it. But I’m willing to be that even paying an XP cost is a level of in-the-weeds mechanics that the giant would rather not get into so I doubt we ever know.
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2019-03-15, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
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- The Land of Cleves
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
We don't know that Not-Gontor activated the scroll without a chance of failure. All we know is that he activated the scroll. And the minimum caster level for doing that is 1 (though he does still need the 19 Wis).
Once he's activated the scroll (by luck or by guarantee), his stats no longer matter. The Gate spell is cast at the scroll's caster level (which is at least and probably equal to 17), and any XP cost was already paid by the scroll's creator.
Given that he's on a direct mission from his deity, and that it's her absolute highest priority, and given his phrasing of "giving our mistress the opportunity to send reinforcements", I think that it's likely that he just used the "open the portal" option, giving whatever was on the other side the opportunity to choose to come through. The Nightcrawler is therefore uncontrolled, and he wasn't guaranteed to get a Nightcrawler to begin with, but he had reason to be confident that something helpful would come through, and the Nightcrawler presumably shares his goals even without being controlled.
It's also possible that the Nightcrawler was only the first thing to come through, and that there will be yet more reinforcements.
And my mistake on Stone Shape's level-- I have 5e on my brain, and didn't think to double-check it in the 3e rules.Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2019-03-15, 01:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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- Meridianville AL
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2019-03-16, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2005
- Location
- Montreal
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
I wonder if Shojo's Wizard could be a Wayfarer Guide. The class allows the caster to teleport more people than a standard caster would at an equivalent level. Teleporting 6 other people would normally require a casting level of 18, while a Wayfarer Guide could conceivably do so at a minimum level 10 (9 caster levels + 3 for a class special ability that allows a WG to teleport an extra small/medium sized character for every WG level he would have).
https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuil...rerguide.shtml
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2019-03-16, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
New theory: they both went to the same wizarding school that specialized in producing Wayfarer Guides. Of course, since that was the only wizard Shojo had who could teleport the Order, I think the school had a kind of Santa with Muscles thing going on, but that's another story. This post will be preserved for all time, unfortunately.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-03-16, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Singapore
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Hrm. I know you're only half-serious, but overthinking things like that is the point of this thread, so...
She theoretically has the room in her build for the two levels of Wayfarer Guide she needs to accomplish that, although stopping Mystic Theurge progression for that would be a bizarre choice. And she'd need +1 CL or to be one level higher than our assumptions, because level 2 Wayfarer Guide gives up a caster level (why would anyone ever take that level, seriously.)
I'm honestly more inclined to assume that she has a magic item or feat that lets her teleport additional undead (or affect additional undead with her spells in general), since that fits her character.
I'm surprised there's no metamagic feat that lets you eg. add an additional target to a spell with three or more targets.Last edited by Aquillion; 2019-03-16 at 12:14 PM.
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2019-03-16, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2013
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
This being D20, there is, just in some sourcebook you've never heard of.
Honestly, I think it might be harder to find the rule you want in D20 than in Palladium (not something I ever thought possible).
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2019-03-18, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
The Exarch's definitely ordering the worm around, right? Does this give him a lower bound on level?
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2019-03-18, 01:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
As was mentionned, him ordering the worm around does not necessarily mean anything because that worm is their ally and would be listening to him either way.
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2019-03-18, 01:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-03-18, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Oregon, USA
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-03-18, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2018
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2019-03-18, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-03-18, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Singapore
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2019-03-18, 01:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Nah, Experts can't cast spells. The trick is he left it simply at "high level" spells, which is subjective. Those sneaky Exarch tricks!
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-03-18, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Singapore
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Well, let's say that, hypothetically, an expert with a bunch of UMD ranks somehow convinced people he was a high-level cleric and got an invitation to the Godsmoot. He's hardly going to admit it, right? And "oh oops I cast all my spells already today, what a shame" seems like a pretty good way to duck the issue.
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2019-03-18, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
An alternate identity would certainly be impressive to pull off while in the Circle of Truth.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-03-18, 01:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Singapore
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Last edited by Aquillion; 2019-03-18 at 01:49 PM.
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2019-03-18, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Last edited by hamishspence; 2019-03-18 at 01:53 PM.
Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2019-03-18, 01:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Oregon, USA
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
And now we know why casting summon proxy constitutes proof of identity!
Also, invisibility purge has a 5-foot-per-caster-level radius centered on the caster; so if we somehow knew how far away Haley/Vaarsuvius/Blackwing are, we could determine the minimum caster level of the Exarch (or possibly of the invisible magic item the Exarch is UMD-ing, I suppose).Last edited by Jasdoif; 2019-03-18 at 01:55 PM.
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-03-18, 02:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2019-03-18, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 1
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2019-03-18, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
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- Oregon, USA
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2019-03-18, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2019
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2019-03-18, 08:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Singapore
Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
Minor Greater Dwarven Evil Vampire Divine Burlew's Narrative Rangefinder (Earth Domain)
Diviniation (Meta)
Level: Cleric 6
This spell functions like Burlew's Narrative Rangefinder, except that to cast it, you must have exactly 14 cleric levels, no more and no less; you must have the Earth domain; you must be evil; and you must be a dwarven vampire.
As with all versions of Burlew's Narrative Rangefinder, these requirements may be bypassed if the caster is a shapeshifted Chimera with class levels or their significant other, whether they are alive or dead.Last edited by Aquillion; 2019-03-18 at 08:19 PM.
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2019-03-18, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
- Location
- A Humorous Location
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XVI - These Characters May Now Drive the Plot
If we can calculate the height of the dwarves in #1155 (which can be derived from Exarch*'s height, which can be derived from Durkon*'s height when they met) then we could estimate the width of the bridge (a major point of reference in the larger cave) and then use #1159 to see how far away the far door is by scaling the width of the bridge (which appears to be the same throughout) between the close end of it and the far end of it.
My personal estimate is "roughly 50-60 feet" from one end of the bridge to the other and Haley and V are a bit into the room already so I'd cut off another 10-15 feet, putting him at ~8th level. I'm sure we'll get more from him later that'll make it far more definitive.
Not to mention the use of the Gate Scroll- which, I'm not the most familiar with 3.5- would his confident use of it without expectation of failing that DC 18 CL check (since I highly doubt he's 17th level, else he'd just prepare Gate himself and have crushed the order by himself) put him decently high level? Not hard evidence of course, but I'd say this also puts him in the same sort of range as my estimate, if not slightly higher.