What if... Miko never killed Shojo?

[GreatWyrmGold]

I mean, not only is that unnecessary, but it's not really how MITD works: The joke of that scene is that MITD hitting her as softly as possible was enough to knock her out of the tower for hundreds of feet. I'm not ssure how ti could just "knock her down".

By MitD practicing the game more before Miko showed up, obviously. Which is why there are a bunch of Redcloak-shaped holes in the wall. (Xykon probably thought it was hilarious.)

Had she been knocked down instead of to the side, she would probably have met her end crashing into the Earth's molten core... or whatever D&D has instead of it.

She went through a foot of stone and a couple hundred feet of air; there's no way she'd have made it through miles of bedrock. Miko would have ended up in the Underdark, at worst.
Which could be pretty bad, I'll admit.

[Peelee]

Now I wish I'd paid for a Backers Choice story of Miko in the Underdark.

[Resileaf]

Which could be pretty bad, I'll admit.

For the Underdark.

[Ruck]

Arriving three minutes earlier or later to the throne room of Azure City could have resulted in drawing some very different conclusions by Miko, seeing as Shojo seemed to be wrapping things up when they barged in.

Maybe, but three minutes is still not "a day or two."

By MitD practicing the game more before Miko showed up, obviously. Which is why there are a bunch of Redcloak-shaped holes in the wall. (Xykon probably thought it was hilarious.)

Where are there a bunch of Redcloak-shaped holes in the wall?

[Cazero]

Where are there a bunch of Redcloak-shaped holes in the wall?

There would be if the MitD practiced.

[Ruck]

There would be if the MitD practiced.

Ah, right. It was before I had my coffee and I was having trouble parsing the use of tense there.

[Lacuna Caster]

If that's the word the gods were to use, I am surprised that Sithrak was not among them. https://i.imgur.com/4q4U4ky.jpg

Oh, hey, another Oglaf fan! That's neat.

That's one possible interpretation. There are no words saying anything along the lines of "the gods revoked her powers"...

No, except that the author explicitly says that the big pyrotechnic display of the Twelve revoking her powers actually is the Twelve coming down to fire her in person.

Miko is still not a cleric.

No, but she's second-in-command of an organisation that is full of clerics who can ask and answer any of these questions on her behalf. In the same sense that it's basically implausible she wouldn't have indirect access to either teleport or wind walk spells, it's basically implausible that she doesn't have indirect access to Commune or Planar Ally.

[Keltest]

Oh, hey, another Oglaf fan! That's neat.


No, except that the author explicitly says that the big pyrotechnic display of the Twelve revoking her powers actually is the Twelve coming down to fire her in person.


No, but she's second-in-command of an organisation that is full of clerics who can ask and answer any of these questions on her behalf. In the same sense that it's basically implausible she wouldn't have indirect access to either teleport or wind walk spells, it's basically implausible that she doesn't have indirect access to Commune or Planar Ally.

If you think Miko is actually interested in having factual answers to her questions given instead of symbolic answers that she can choose to interpret however she wants, you have vastly misread her character.

[Lacuna Caster]

You're thinking too narrowly. Everyone has unique talents, skills, experiences, ideas. Everyone's labor is needed for a culture, nation, or church to prosper. Should the gods not have a plan for everybody?
But they don't, because the gods (generally) don't micromanage the world...

Wyrm, this is a daft argument. There is a particular span of attention whereby company CEOs will delegate orders to a number of their immediate subordinates without literally positioning the limbs of every ground-floor intern.

...The Twelve didn't see fit to respond to Miko's prayers. They were prayers of self-righteous hubris, an intense desire to destroy evil above doing good. The Twelve have many followers whose prayers they ignore, many whose prayers echo the dark flaws hidden within their hearts. Is Miko's level justification enough to expect the Twelve to respond directly, as they so rarely do?

Yes, it is. You seem to be approaching this as if the primary question is whether Miko herself was sufficiently virtuous as to be worthy of divine approval (even though, at the time, she objectively was), when the critical factor here is that Miko's power and position makes steering her onto the straight and narrow particularly important for everyone under her command and protection. It's not about Miko herself so much as what Miko might do to- or for- her city and people as a whole.

It was a mistake for the Twelve not to intervene in Miko's life, just as it was a mistake for them not to intervene in Tsukiko's or a thousand other Azurites who fell off the straight and narrow...

Yes! Yes, it absolutely was! It is even more incongruous that they don't see fit to strip away Tsukiko's powers, and/or are willing to overlook her many horrendous vices while being too stuck-up to talk with their single most powerful paladin. Why do you think that pointing out additional problems with the Twelve's behaviour is going to make it seem like less of a problem?

[hroþila]

Was it a mistake for the Evil gods among the Twelve to

Spoiler: HtPGHS

Show

allow O-Chul to be steered away from a life of crime?

[Lacuna Caster]

If you think Miko is actually interested in having factual answers to her questions given instead of symbolic answers that she can choose to interpret however she wants, you have vastly misread her character.

Sure, in the same vein that Miko must clearly prefer chasing after potentially omnicidal evildoers on horseback for weeks at a time instead of just using teleport. You know, because saddle-sores build character, or something.

It's actually very simple, at least from my perspective. The Twelve Gods give power to the good guys, in spite of some of the 12 being evil. They also give power to the bad guys, in spite of some of the 12 being good. It works both ways. It isn't contradictory. The Twelve Gods are not the Sapphire Guard.

And well, yea, paladins and clerics are separate classes with different conditions for falling.

I don't think you're really addressing my point.

(1) Regardless of what standards of conduct the Twelve might in general apply to their clerics, by all appearances Tsukiko is actively colluding with people who are trying to blackmail or kill her own celestial patrons. The Twelve can be as morally ambiguous as you like, but this is like refusing to fire an employee who is currently trying to burn down your own corporate headquarters. (Are there potential explanations for this? Maybe. But they're certainly never spelled out in the text.)

(2) What do you imagine happens if, for example, the right upstanding Thanh or O-Chul find out that their own celestial patrons were fuelling the powers of a woman who slaughters fellow azurites and turns them into zombie thralls? Which, by extension, suggests that the Twelve themselves are colluding with Xykon and Redcloak? How about paladins like Miko or Gin-Jun, who say things like "never tolerate evil or association with evil" and are otherwise not-very-live-and-let-live when it comes to the antisocial alignments? I don't see how the basic existence of evil azurite clerics, let alone evil members of their own pantheon sanctioning what Tsukiko does specifically, would be regarded by these characters as anything but an inexcusable betrayal of their faith.

I mean, just take a moment to mentally substitute, say, the High Priest of the Twelve or any of the Guard's own clerics for Tsukiko and the bizarreness of the situation becomes apparent. (To be fair, Tsukiko being a Cleric of the Twelve is barely even hinted at within the primary text, so one could forgive the broader readership for glossing over this point. But when the author goes out of his way to clarify on the forums that she does in fact worship the Twelve and derive her powers from the same source, then... I just don't know how to square that.)

[Keltest]

Sure, in the same vein that Miko must clearly prefer chasing after potentially omnicidal evildoers on horseback for weeks at a time instead of just using teleport. You know, because saddle-sores build character, or something.

You do recall the time that she insisted that the Order should sleep in a muddy ditch rather than the inn across the road, yes?

More to the point, Miko is seeking validation, not the truth, when she prays for guidance. Which you can see with her interpreting literally everything she can as divine validation in response to a prayer instead of, you know, actually looking at the truth.

I don't think you're really addressing my point.

(1) Regardless of what standards of conduct the Twelve might in general apply to their clerics, by all appearances Tsukiko is actively colluding with people who are trying to blackmail or kill her own celestial patrons. The Twelve can be as morally ambiguous as you like, but this is like refusing to fire an employee who is currently trying to burn down your own corporate headquarters. (Are there potential explanations for this? Maybe. But they're certainly never spelled out in the text.)

(2) What do you imagine happens if, for example, the right upstanding Thanh or O-Chul find out that their own celestial patrons were fuelling the powers of a woman who slaughters fellow azurites and turns them into zombie thralls? Which, by extension, suggests that the Twelve themselves are colluding with Xykon and Redcloak? How about paladins like Miko or Gin-Jun, who say things like "never tolerate evil or association with evil" and are otherwise not-very-live-and-let-live when it comes to the antisocial alignments? I don't see how the basic existence of evil azurite clerics, let alone evil members of their own pantheon sanctioning what Tsukiko does specifically, would be regarded by these characters as anything but an inexcusable betrayal of their faith.

I mean, just take a moment to mentally substitute, say, the High Priest of the Twelve or any of the Guard's own clerics for Tsukiko and the bizarreness of the situation becomes apparent. (To be fair, Tsukiko being a Cleric of the Twelve is barely even hinted at within the primary text, so one could forgive the broader readership for glossing over this point. But when the author goes out of his way to clarify on the forums that she does in fact worship the Twelve and derive her powers from the same source, then... I just don't know how to square that.)

Or perhaps your point simply isn't as strong as you think it is.

First off, its been heavily implied that the gods either do not know about the full extent of The Plan or are bound in some way from directly interfering in it on the mortal plane.

Secondly, they've been through this song and dance umpteen billion times before. The gods will gladly destroy the world (and by extension The Dark One) rather than let Xykon and Redcloak unleash the Snarl on them. This isn't a deadly existential crisis for them, this is something corrupting their latest Minecraft world. Annoying, but that's about it.

Thirdly, the Southerners all know that all of them worship all of the twelve as a pantheon and how they operate. O-chul clearly doesn't care that when he swears in the name of the Twelve that Rat is one of them, for example. If you don't understand how that works, that's a personal problem, not a storytelling problem. You might as well get upset that you have good wizards and evil wizards drawing from the same pool of magic in the North, even though Odin is nominally a good (or at least non-evil) god. They could operate individually, but they have chosen to operate as a pantheon, and they don't make a secret of it, to the other gods or their own followers.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

First off, its been heavily implied that the gods either do not know about the full extent of The Plan or are bound in some way from directly interfering in it on the mortal plane.

Or they simply don't care about the mortals, being more interested in other aspects of the world (such as, say, its fjords). To some humans, puppies are pets. To others, pests that need to be put down. To yet others, a meal. The idea that all gods in OotS must care deeply about individual humans is an unsustainable premise.

Grey Wolf

[Vinyadan]

(1) We have never seen a cleric lose his spells. According to the SRD,

Ex-Clerics

A cleric who grossly violates the code of conduct required by his god loses all spells and class features, except for armor and shield proficiencies and proficiency with simple weapons. He cannot thereafter gain levels as a cleric of that god until he atones (see the atonement spell description).

If it isn't in the code of conduct (and it really shouldn't, because it's a secret), there's no reason why she should lose her spells.

I'll add that we have only seen one person lose her divine powers, albeit a paladin, and it was not due to her intention of performing a certain action in the future, but to having performed an action in the immediate past.

And, even if we assume that the SGods would have preemptively taken away Tsukiko's powers to ensure their own survival, then we can look at Tsukiko's actual case, and see that she was the greatest danger for the Plan, and that her gods may have been betting on her to make it fail. Had she just told Xykon her finds before visiting the study, the problem would have been solved.

(2) It's a Paladin thing:

Associates

While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.

[hroþila]

We're going in circles. The Twelve work as a pantheon and everybody in-universe is fine with that. Most readers don't find this weird at all. It's even less weird if you consider that the whole universe is the result of close cooperation between Good, Neutral and Evil gods. There are perfectly valid reasons why the Twelve wouldn't strip Tsukiko of her spells. Most readers are fine with those reasons not being explored in the comic because they are not particularly implausible, or important to the broader story, and because this is not the kind of story that likes to explore how everything works in great depth. That's why the worldbuilding is so thin. This is not a flaw, it's a stylistic choice.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

There are perfectly valid reasons why the Twelve wouldn't strip Tsukiko of her spells.

For example, it takes all 12 gods to agree that something was over the line. Trivial in Miko's case, while all it takes is one god thinking that Tsukiko is furthering their plans to stop her from being targeted. Which requires only one god out of 12 looking forward to ending this world just like Hel is in the North.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

No, but she's second-in-command of an organisation that is full of clerics who can ask and answer any of these questions on her behalf. In the same sense that it's basically implausible she wouldn't have indirect access to either teleport or wind walk spells, it's basically implausible that she doesn't have indirect access to Commune or Planar Ally.

Except the vast majority of clerics are 3rd level or lower. We've seen exactly two Azurite clerics capable of casting those spells, and no indication either one was in the Sapphire Guard.

You keep saying "implausible." I am not sure that word means what you think it means.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Wyrm, this is a daft argument. There is a particular span of attention whereby company CEOs will delegate orders to a number of their immediate subordinates without literally positioning the limbs of every ground-floor intern.

And the Twelve Gods' immediate subordinates are high-level clerics, not paladins. Miko isn't their immediate subordinate; she just happens to be a high-level employee (which mostly means she's good at her job, not necessarily that she has a high rank—anyone who's worked in a professional setting knows those two don't always correlate), and one outside the typical managerial structure for that matter.
Besides, I was responding specifically to an argument about Miko being worthy of divine attention because of her specialness, not where she is in the org chart. I try not to reiterate my entire argument for every single point I respond to, because that would get repetitive (and because I feel like I should only have to make my argument once, and then we can focus on other things like counterarguments).

Yes, it is. You seem to be approaching this as if the primary question is whether Miko herself was sufficiently virtuous as to be worthy of divine approval (even though, at the time, she objectively was), when the critical factor here is that Miko's power and position makes steering her onto the straight and narrow particularly important for everyone under her command and protection. It's not about Miko herself so much as what Miko might do to- or for- her city and people as a whole.

The same goes for, say, everyone who could have prepared better for Xykon's invasion if they had known about it more than a couple days ahead of time. Heck, the Twelve could have just directed the Sapphire Guard to only kill the handful of leader-goblins around the Crimson Mantle (or to be more thorough in slaughtering the clergy), preventing Redcloak from gaining such a thorough hatred of Azure City and preventing him from guiding Xykon's epic-level hands in his old age. Or they could have smited The Dark One the moment they realized he was uniting the goblin hordes into something beyond what was needed to level up their clerics and whatnot.
It's called the Problem of Evil, and there have been a bunch of solutions proposed over the millennia. Without going into the theology, I don't think any work well for an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent god, but the OotS gods aren't any of those.

Yes! Yes, it absolutely was! It is even more incongruous that they don't see fit to strip away Tsukiko's powers, and/or are willing to overlook her many horrendous vices while being too stuck-up to talk with their single most powerful paladin. Why do you think that pointing out additional problems with the Twelve's behaviour is going to make it seem like less of a problem?

The Twelve suck if you're viewing them as Tri-Omni guardians of the Material Plane. But they suck consistently, so they work as consistent characters, and the ways they suck allow stories about mortals to happen, so they work as setting elements. This isn't a Miko-specific issue; if they were Tri-Omni guardians, they'd have failed that task a thousand times to Sunday even without considering any past universes. But they aren't.
That has always been my position. I don't understand what you're complaining about.

[Lacuna Caster]

Except the vast majority of clerics are 3rd level or lower. We've seen exactly two Azurite clerics capable of casting those spells, and no indication either one was in the Sapphire Guard.

There were presumably clerics in the guard capable of casting Planar Ally in order to summon the BoPLaG/Eugene in the first place, and while I'd be rather surprised if the HPotT wasn't a member, he doesn't need to be in order to cast Commune on Miko's behalf.

You do recall the time that she insisted that the Order should sleep in a muddy ditch rather than the inn across the road, yes?

I do. I also recall that the safety of the planet wasn't at stake at the time.

More to the point, Miko is seeking validation, not the truth, when she prays for guidance...

So what? If she's 100% convinced that the Gods have a special plan for her, she has no reason not to seek guidance from them directly by talking to them via Commune spells. As far as Miko is concerned, 'the truth' and 'personal validation' should be one and the same thing.

First off, its been heavily implied that the gods either do not know about the full extent of The Plan or are bound in some way from directly interfering in it on the mortal plane.

Secondly, they've been through this song and dance umpteen billion times before. The gods will gladly destroy the world (and by extension The Dark One) rather than let Xykon and Redcloak unleash the Snarl on them. This isn't a deadly existential crisis for them, this is something corrupting their latest Minecraft world. Annoying, but that's about it.

Thirdly, the Southerners all know that all of them worship all of the twelve as a pantheon and how they operate. O-chul clearly doesn't care that when he swears in the name of the Twelve that Rat is one of them, for example. If you don't understand how that works, that's a personal problem, not a storytelling problem. You might as well get upset that you have good wizards and evil wizards drawing from the same pool of magic in the North...

First off, the Gods don't need to 'directly interfere' on the mortal plane. All they need to do is strip powers from their servant, which they are explicitly empowered to do. (And if they don't know about the Plan, they have even less justification for using Tsukiko as some kind of saboteur.) Secondly, the Twelve (including Rat) are explicitly upset-bordering-furious about the destruction of Azure City, so clearly they had some skin in this game. And thirdly, that's not the same. Arcane magic is a morally indifferent force and doesn't have any standards of conduct or decision-making power, and the various clerics/paladins of the North worship individual patron deities who can set their own standards of conduct and make their own decisions about who to promote/dismiss from service.

Arguing that "everyone knows that's how the Twelve operate" doesn't diminish the scope of this problem. It expands the problem. It makes it more glaring and less believable.

[Peelee]

There were presumably clerics in the guard capable of casting Planar Ally in order to summon the BoPLaG/Eugene in the first place, and while I'd be rather surprised in the HPotT wasn't a member, he doesn't need to be in order to cast Commune on Miko's behalf.

Scrolls exist, I would be surprised if the high priest was a member, and Miko could easily see it as "they have god-given powers to help the needy, I would be doing said needy a great disservice by taking an opportunity away from them when I can simply pray. After all, why would they not answer me, even without the spells demanding their audience?"

And if you don't think that train of thought is right up Miko's alley, then your idea of her character and her actual character are very, very different.

[Keltest]

There were presumably clerics in the guard capable of casting Planar Ally in order to summon the BoPLaG/Eugene in the first place, and while I'd be rather surprised in the HPotT wasn't a member, he doesn't need to be in order to cast Commune on Miko's behalf.


I do. I also recall that the safety of the planet wasn't at stake at the time.


So what? If she's 100% convinced that the Gods have a special plan for her, she has no reason not to seek guidance from them directly by talking to them via Commune spells. As far as Miko is concerned, 'the truth' and 'personal validation' should be one and the same thing.


First off, the Gods don't need to 'directly interfere' on the mortal plane. All they need to do is strip powers from their servant, which they are explicitly empowered to do. Secondly, the Twelve (including Rat) are explicitly upset-***-furious about the destruction of Azure City, so clearly they had some skin in this game. And thirdly, that's not the same. Arcane magic is a morally indifferent force and doesn't have any standards of conduct or decision-making power, and the various clerics/paladins of the North worship individual patron deities who can set their own standards of conduct and make their own decisions about who to promote/dismiss from service.

At this point, I have to wonder if youre just misreading things on purpose. Miko does not want to Commune with the gods. The gods are a name she throws around to feel better. I guarantee you that if the High Priest of the Twelve came up to her and offered to Commune for her, she would decline, citing that she already has sufficient understanding of their will and that he should save his spells for somebody more in need of their guidance. Miko is interested in her own will only, and has simply chosen to validate that by attaching deific significance to that. Theres no way she would risk that attachment by actually trying to understand the will of the Twelve.

Secondly, you have no idea what the Twelve as a group think of the fall of AC. Rat is ticked, but maybe Dragon is happy because he didn't like how the Azurites were going around picking wars with goblins. We don't know because we weren't told, except that Rat is angry.

[Lacuna Caster]

And the Twelve Gods' immediate subordinates are high-level clerics, not paladins. Miko isn't their immediate subordinate; she just happens to be a high-level employee (which mostly means she's good at her job, not necessarily that she has a high rank—anyone who's worked in a professional setting knows those two don't always correlate), and one outside the typical managerial structure for that matter.

But Miko is explicitly highly-ranked. She's the highest-ranking paladin of the Guard (and the Guard includes clerics who could relay orders from the Gods to her anyway, so it's a marginal distinction.) And the entire function of her organisation is explicitly to act as agents of the Twelve in protecting the azurite gate against existential threats involving the Snarl, Crimson Mantle, and the like. There certainly aren't many people they would have a more urgent reason to talk to, and this is particularly glaring when she also explicitly wants to talk to them.

My basic argument was that Miko's position in the org-chart effectively makes her special. It's a distinction without a difference as far as where the Gods should be investing their attentions is concerned.

...The Twelve suck if you're viewing them as Tri-Omni guardians of the Material Plane. But they suck consistently, so they work as consistent characters, and the ways they suck allow stories about mortals to happen, so they work as setting elements. This isn't a Miko-specific issue; if they were Tri-Omni guardians, they'd have failed that task a thousand times to Sunday even without considering any past universes. But they aren't.
That has always been my position. I don't understand what you're complaining about.

I'm complaining, in part, because we've recently had an extended plotline that involves several OOTSverse deities explicitly conniving to manipulate mortal affairs, all while using several channels of direct and indirect communication with their senior followers to do so. It is reasonable why to ask why the single organisation of the planet that was probably best-equipped and motivated to coordinate with the Gods for this purpose were, in practice, completely ignored by their own patrons and/or stunningly bad at their jobs.

I mean, this wasn't such a problem 900 strips ago when things like Commune and Wind Walk had never been introduced or referenced within the story, but you can't just shoehorn these elements in the plot later on without raising questions about the competence of other actors.

[Peelee]

But Miko is explicitly highly-ranked. She's the highest-ranking paladin of the Guard (and the Guard includes clerics who could relay orders from the Gods to her anyway, so it's a marginal distinction.) And the entire function of her organisation is explicitly to act as agents of the Twelve in protecting the azurite gate against existential threats involving the Snarl, Crimson Mantle, and the like. There certainly aren't many people they would have a more urgent reason to talk to, and this is particularly glaring when she also explicitly wants to talk to them.

My basic argument was that Miko's position in the org-chart effectively makes her special. It's a distinction without a difference as far as where the Gods should be investing their attentions is concerned.

The highest ranked floor worker in Wal-Mart is still just a floor worker. They don't get the executives' phone numbers, even if they can ask a manager to call for them.

[Keltest]

But Miko is explicitly highly-ranked. She's the highest-ranking paladin of the Guard (and the Guard includes clerics who could relay orders from the Gods to her anyway, so it's a marginal distinction.) And the entire function of her organisation is explicitly to act as agents of the Twelve in protecting the azurite gate against existential threats involving the Snarl, Crimson Mantle, and the like. There certainly aren't many people they would have a more urgent reason to talk to, and this is particularly glaring when she also explicitly wants to talk to them.

My basic argument was that Miko's position in the org-chart effectively makes her special. It's a distinction without a difference as far as where the Gods should be investing their attentions is concerned.

Lets put it this way. Youre complaining that the President of the United States is not bothering to give orders to the police chief of Chicago. Being high ranked within the Guard does not mean that she gets a lot of attention from the higher ups, or that she should require more attention or management. She still answers to Lord Shojo first and foremost, and he is the primary authority responsible for managing the Guard. She is an agent of the gods in as much as this is a thing they want done, but that doesn't mean theyre directly controlling the organization, or even particularly necessary for its day to day function.

I'm complaining, in part, because we've recently had an extended plotline that involves several OOTSverse deities explicitly conniving to manipulate mortal affairs, all while using several channels of direct and indirect communication with their senior followers to do so. It is reasonable why to ask why the single organisation of the planet that was probably best-equipped and motivated to coordinate with the Gods for this purpose were, in practice, completely ignored by their own patrons and/or stunningly bad at their jobs.

I mean, this wasn't such a problem 900 strips ago when things like Commune and Wind Walk had never been introduced or referenced within the story, but you can't just shoehorn these elements in the plot later on without raising questions about the competence of other actors.

Lets just get this out here now. No, you are not asking particularly reasonable questions at this point. The answers exist, and you are simply choosing to ignore them. The gods are not managing the Guard because they do not and have never operated like that and there is nothing that indicates that they could, because there are no other gods who micromanage organizations like that. And before you say it, Hel and Thrym are managing their clerics, who exist specifically to serve their wills directly. Paladins and, by extension the Guard, do not.

[GreatWyrmGold]

But Miko is explicitly highly-ranked. She's the highest-ranking paladin of the Guard (and the Guard includes clerics who could relay orders from the Gods to her anyway, so it's a marginal distinction.) And the entire function of her organisation is explicitly to act as agents of the Twelve in protecting the azurite gate against existential threats involving the Snarl, Crimson Mantle, and the like. There certainly aren't many people they would have a more urgent reason to talk to, and this is particularly glaring when she also explicitly wants to talk to them.

My basic argument was that Miko's position in the org-chart effectively makes her special. It's a distinction without a difference as far as where the Gods should be investing their attentions is concerned.

Without getting too sidetracked on an unimportant argument...
Miko is the highest-level, paladin in the Sapphire Guard. That is different than being the highest-rank, cleric, in the church of the Twelve. Three critical points of distinction: Level (ie, personal power/competence) vs. rank (position in org chart), paladin (crusader) vs. cleric (priest), and Sapphire Guard (organization with secular leadership and purpose which has religion in its code, like the Boy Scouts) vs. Church of the Twelve (the actual church.
That's like expecting James Bond to report directly to the Queen; she's at the top of an org chart which includes James Bond, but he's not in the second level.

I'm complaining, in part, because we've recently had an extended plotline that involves several OOTSverse deities explicitly conniving to manipulate mortal affairs, all while using several channels of direct and indirect communication with their senior followers to do so. It is reasonable why to ask why the single organisation of the planet that was probably best-equipped and motivated to coordinate with the Gods for this purpose were, in practice, completely ignored by their own patrons and/or stunningly bad at their jobs.

I mean, this wasn't such a problem 900 strips ago when things like Commune and Wind Walk had never been introduced or referenced within the story, but you can't just shoehorn these elements in the plot later on without raising questions about the competence of other actors.

Apparently, the gods care more about a potential opportunity to permanently seal away a god-killing abomination than they do about a rogue follower who has stayed pointed at the right people so far, as long as she's listening to her reasonably-sane mortal superiors. Either that, or the gods are more willing to act vaguely through their high priests than they are to act directly through a random follower who happens to have a high level and some divine spells.
Shocking.

[Aquillion]

Alright, here's a good question:

What if Miko killed Shojo twice? That is, things play out as normal, but Shojo accepts his resurrection. Then, to make amends, he's part of the last stand in the throne room after taking the oath of the Sapphire Guard. Xykon, however, overlooks him and doesn't kill him. When Miko arrives, instead of focusing on O'Chul, she focuses on Shojo, and spends her time killing him again and desecrating his remains.

How does the story change?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Alright, here's a good question:

What if Miko killed Shojo twice? That is, things play out as normal, but Shojo accepts his resurrection. Then, to make amends, he's part of the last stand in the throne room after taking the oath of the Sapphire Guard. Xykon, however, overlooks him and doesn't kill him. When Miko arrives, instead of focusing on O'Chul, she focuses on Shojo, and spends her time killing him again and desecrating his remains.

How does the story change?

Xykon specifically spares Miko because he found that hilarious. Miko assumes this is a divine sign that she, the lone survivor of the Sapphire Guard (if we don't count Hinjo, Lien, or any Guardsmen who couldn't make it home in time), was destined to return and slay Xykon. She becomes a recurring antagonist, clashing with everyone she assumes is secretly in cahoots with Xykon—which is basically everyone.
Maybe she ends up as a leader in one of the Resistances (probably the one that thinks the Order corrupted Hinjo), foils the Mr-Scruffy-induced alliance, and gets the Resistance crushed early enough that dominos fall differently and O-Chul never gets a chance to cut off Redcloak's holy symbol, which could mean that Xykon can leave for Girard's Gate early or that he doesn't get his impatience kickstarted for a while; either one could have some serious impact on the end of that storyline. (Either Xykon moves into the recently-emptied pyramid and starts making some nifty undead out of all the sorcerer corpses out there, probably prompting dispelling the annoying illusions first and accidentally alerting local authorities at some point, prompting an alliance between Tarquin's party, the Order of the Stick, and possibly the Linear Guild; or Xykon shows up late to the party and Redcloak doesn't try to kill Roy et al.) I suspect that she'd ed up kicked out before that happened, though.
A wandering Miko probably wouldn't have much influence on the rest of the plot, unless maybe she wandered into Greysky and either made a mess of the Thieves' Guild before Haley got there or happened to arrive at the same time as Haley, causing a melee a trois that Haley would presumably exploit by escaping while Miko and Crystal were fighting. The long-term effects of this are hard to figure out, but Celia might be out of a job if Miko pisses off Bozzok enough that he's willing to cut a deal with Haley in exchange for helping him drive her off. ("I'll settle your tab with Grubby and take you off our hitlist if you can kite Miko out of the city.")

[Lacuna Caster]

The highest ranked floor worker in Wal-Mart is still just a floor worker. They don't get the executives' phone numbers, even if they can ask a manager to call for them.

Without getting too sidetracked on an unimportant argument...
Miko is the highest-level, paladin in the Sapphire Guard. That is different than being the highest-rank, cleric, in the church of the Twelve...

Yes, but one of the ostensible restrictions on the Gods' ability to talk with mortals is that they can't mention anything about the Rifts/Snarl to mortals who don't already know about the subject. Which means that if the Twelve Gods want to talk about these things, they're pretty much limited to talking to someone within the Sapphire Guard. Dealing with these problems is essentially what the organisation exists for, and the organisation already includes senior clerics who can directly summon celestial advisors.

Comparing the Sapphire Guard to wal-mart or the boy scouts is ridiculous. (Comparing them to MI5 is a little better, though I'm not clear on how Q could fake insanity without being removed from office pretty quickly, and it certainly doesn't seem unthinkable to me that Bond could arrange a meeting with the Queen if he felt that national security was at stake.)

Apparently, the gods care more about a potential opportunity to permanently seal away a god-killing abomination than they do about a rogue follower who has stayed pointed at the right people so far...

Setting aside that there was nothing, in principle, to stop them telling Miko (or just after dying, Shojo), about the whole business with the purple quiddity, wouldn't preventing the capital city where most of their followers live from being destroyed by a large orange army register as something worth talking about?

Lets put it this way. Youre complaining that the President of the United States is not bothering to give orders to the police chief of Chicago.

No. I am arguing that the Twelve Gods are literally not talking to the tiny list of people who are most qualified, authorised, and motivated to discuss topics of urgent relevance to the survival of the planet and their followers, that Miko is both within that list and close to the top of it, and that channels of communications clearly existed on both sides.

[Peelee]

Yes, but one of the ostensible restrictions on the Gods' ability to talk with mortals is that they can't mention anything about the Rifts/Snarl to mortals who don't already know about the subject. Which means that if the Twelve Gods want to talk about these things, they're pretty much limited to talking to someone within the Sapphire Guard.

Which is mostly Paladins - a class which is very explicitly not allowed to talk to the gods. If Miko wanted actual divine conversation, she could have gone Cleric. Instead, she wanted to be special. She wanted to interpret their will through prayer. Well, what she wants, she gets.

[Lacuna Caster]

Which is mostly Paladins - a class which is very explicitly not allowed to talk to the gods. If Miko wanted actual divine conversation, she could have gone Cleric...

This is like saying that if Roy wanted traps disarmed, he should've gone Rogue, rather than, say, taking twenty seconds to talk to Haley. Miko probably has several mid-level clerics under her direct command, and they certainly exist within the Guard at large. So let's put two and two together, shall we?