The Age of Warriors (Project Revived!)

[D&D_Fan]

I dropped the other damage types. They were optional anyway.

Plasma deals Searing Fire. Laser deals Searing Heat damage.
Both of them Scald and Desiccate the target as well for an extra 2d6 damage.

I will work more on nuclear and antimatter at a later date.

[Just to Browse]

Battlemind sounds like a perfectly ToB-y name. And I don't think there's much 4e baggage re:battleminds as defenders, given how few people think about 4e.

Also agreed on power list being kind of boring. Right now I kind of want to lean into that and just make the powers workhorse effects so you can do cool things with your discipline, but maybe that's just me being lazy. I'll think on it.

[Elves]

Yeah, assuming you retain both powers and maneuvers, fine for powers to be a short list of boring buffs.

[Primal Fury]

Something I've always been mildly interested in, but never seen anyone attempt is a sort of blending of the Shadow Hand and Tiger Claw disciplines, along the same lines as the Shadow Sun Ninja. It seems strange to me that it doesn't exist even though the "Shadow Tiger Horde" is a thing. Do you plan on adding anything along those lines?

[Elves]

There's no plan for that, but you can certainly make a Shadow Tiger prc if that's something you'd like to see included.

On another note, I really liked your idea from earlier today about stances that automatically switch when certain conditions are met. It would be fun to have that mechanic included in some capacity. The simplest way would just be to include a variant of your gun system in the form of a PRC or base class -- maybe that could be the swordsage variant for this variant line we've been discussing? "Gunsage"? -- but it's a sound mechanic that need not be linked to guns in any way.

[Primal Fury]

What did you have in mind for the dynamic stance switching? I'm assuming that would be on a per discipline basis rather than individual stances, as that sound like a headache to implement. Would higher levels stance require more extreme stimuli?

By the way, I wanted to thank you for your input. Thanks to you, I've seen that the extra effects for tactics can be changed out at the player's discretion rather than replaced all together. The base effect will be more reliable and generally applicable (like just getting the Evasion ability for Dodge Roll), while the Pattern Recognition would be more situational, risky, and powerful (gaining Improved Evasion IF you can make it out of the area, or losing Evasion and shooting someone to worsen their save).

[Elves]

What did you have in mind for the dynamic stance switching? I'm assuming that would be on a per discipline basis rather than individual stances, as that sound like a headache to implement. Would higher levels stance require more extreme stimuli?

The most likely way would be linking it to a specific discipline or a unique suite of stances gained by the class. A general trigger system would feel bad because the triggers aren't linked thematically to the stance effects. If the switches were compulsory it also wouldn't work as a general system.

One of the few ways I can see to do a general system would be a "ramp-up" effect where you get to enter a progressively higher-level stance as a free action each round or something, but like all ramp-up effects, that runs into the problem of 3e combat being very short.

In a milder form, there is plenty of stuff you could do with triggered free action stance switches based on various triggers.

But the idea of compulsory stance switches would be the interesting thing to try and make work. It would definitely not work as a general system if it wasn't going to be more frustrating than it already threatens to be.

The base effect will be more reliable and generally applicable (like just getting the Evasion ability for Dodge Roll), while the Pattern Recognition would be more situational, risky, and powerful (gaining Improved Evasion IF you can make it out of the area, or losing Evasion and shooting someone to worsen their save)

With the system you laid out, I think a smaller number of base effects that are changed in significant ways based on stance modification, like this, is the most interesting way to do it.

[D&D_Fan]

Futuristic Weapons Complete
I reposted laser and plasma.

Plasma Weapons
Plasma weapons change the damage type of the weapon to Searing Fire damage. It additionally deals 1d6 Scalding damage, and 1d6 Desiccation damage on a successful hit. Melee plasma weapons shed light in a 10 foot radius when activated.
A plasma weapon must be a sword, or firearm.

Laser Weapons
Laser weapons change the damage type of the weapon to Extreme Heat damage. It additionally deals 1d6 Scalding damage, and 1d6 Desiccation damage on a successful hit. Ranged laser weapons gain the Distance property, and Melee laser weapons gain the Defending property, as well as shedding light in a 20 foot radius when activated. Armor and shield bonuses to AC (including any enhancement bonuses to that armor) do not count against it because the weapon passes through armor. (Dexterity, deflection, dodge, natural armor, and other such bonuses still apply.)
A laser weapon must be a sword, or firearm.

Gauss Weapons
Gauss weapons additionally deal 5d10 Crushing damage on a successful hit. Gauss weapons gain the Distance property as well as the Flaming Burst and Thundering properties, and have a x2 critical modifier.
A Gauss weapon must be a firearm.

Atomic Weapons
Atomic weapons additionally deal 7d10 Extreme Heat damage on a successful hit. Atomic weapons gain the Flaming Burst and Thundering properties, and have a x3 critical modifier.
An atomic weapon must be a firearm.

Antimatter Weapons
Antimatter weapons additionally deal 10d10 damage on a successful hit. Antimatter weapons gain the Flaming Burst and Thundering properties, and have a x4 critical modifier.
An antimatter weapon must be a firearm.

[Elves]

I'd recommend making a separate thread for the futuristic weapons if you want them to get people's full attention, since they don't directly link to Tome of Battle. That doesn't mean parts of them won't get included.

[D&D_Fan]

Well, I made them for the Mecha Warblade thing as a guideline for how the weapons might work, so they are technically linked to the tome of battle.

They could also be in the magic items section, even though they aren't necessarily magical, which is how you might be thinking of using them. They are already here, and if you want to implement them that way, that is also okay.

[Elves]

Update 6/19

Moving on to the base classes. Don't want these to be duds.

Machinist is the most open right now because it needs completely redone class features. Somehow, it needs to make unique items or empower items with unique benefits, and those items or benefits need to interact with its maneuvers. One basic form of this kind of item dependency is present in its alchemy maneuvers that require the expenditure of alchemical items.

The class flavor is an exaggerated clockpunk or steampunk "natural philosopher". It's not meant to be specific to a futuristic or scifi setting. The basic idea is for it to be a TOB rendering of the artificer concept, using TOB to lower the ceiling on a high-powered class rather than raise the floor on a low-powered one. Its main party role should be support and utility, not direct fighting power.

[D&D_Fan]

Well, for Steampunk, Scalding damage is going to be a great damage type to use.

Besides that, none of my weapons work at all for this class.

Maybe some better abilities would be:

Creating an obscuring steam cloud.
Shooting a gun.
Shooting a cannon.
Retractable sword.
Mechanical armor that can do special things.
Flight through propeller.
Early V.A.T.S. system.
Self destruct option.

[Elves]

Continuing with machinist: taking a look at the machinist disciplines now. Going to stick with 4. Theming them as:

experimental alchemy - boosts and utility (+ some strikes employing alchemical items)
akasha's timepiece - counters and mobility (+ some fun Time themed effects)
crystalline optics - ranged attacks (+ some perception/scouting)
entropy dynamo - melee attacks (+ some melee defense)

Still not sure what the item integration will look like but I'll assume that can be added afterward.


As for poet's disciplines, thinking of theming the abilities more as a fantastical jester. Possibly change class name to jester? Not sure yet.

[D&D_Fan]

For integration, what if you have special armor with different slots.
I made a list of where the slots could be.
at different levels you get more items.
Some items have slot and level prequisites;
Special boots could only be in the leg section, wheras goggles would be in the head slot.

• Head: 1
• Torso: 1
• Back: 1
• Arms: 2
• Legs: 2

Would this work.

[Elves]

Probably replacing machinist's "Entropy Dynamo" with a robot discipline. Want to go full clockpunk.

[Elves]

Quick opinion check: would it be inelegant to make the machinist maneuvers not be accessible through Martial Study?

The benefit is it would make writing the maneuvers easier since they wouldn't have to be balanced against maneuvers from other disciplines that machinist is never going to use anyway. It could also be a mechanical justification for calling the machinist disciplines "colleges" instead of disciplines, since Martial Study specifies "disciplines".

On the other hand, one of the big pluses of the TOB system has always been its cross-class integration.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Quick opinion check: would it be inelegant to make the machinist maneuvers not be accessible through Martial Study?

I'd say yes; the multiclassing-/dabbling-friendliness of ToB is one of its best points, as you said, and I don't think breaking that for a single discipline or the disciplines of a single class would be a good thing. Maybe if you had a whole category of "colleges" or "prestige disciplines" or whatever with their own rules of restricted access and so forth it could fit, but as-is, not really.

If you want the maneuvers to be noticeably stronger, one option is to balance them normally and then up the power level through the item integration you mentioned (e.g. each maneuver could have a basic effect plus a "If you initiate this maneuver while [action] [specific item]..." section), assuming the effects you had in mind could be scaled or divided like that. In practice only machinists would have easy access to that part of the maneuver, but in principle the extra perks might be more or less accessible to other classes depending on what the item rules look like (think the warblade's Martial Aptitude class feature vs. the aptitude property as far as letting other classes "fake it" with other magic items), and anyone else could still get some benefit from Martial Study-ing them regardless.

[Elves]

In Jiriku's original version some were gated by weapons, but that can be gamed by Aptitude. Instead they could be gated by non-weapon items.

But in the end, may be best to just eat the inelegance. If the intended effect is to gate the abilities -- just say so. They're nominally different from normal disciplines ("colleges") and have a different flavor than martial arts. So I think I'll just go the ugly way.


I haven't forgotten about the swashbuckler by the way Dice. I did try changing their signature moves so that rather than being able to prepare them twice, they get their signature moves in "bonus" readied slots. Not sure if they should also be able to ready them in normal slots. You can check the doc to see the changes. Still have not done the capers.

[Elves]

Did some work on the PDF format today. Here's the current draft of the format for maneuvers:

Image link

The ornamentation can be changed depending on the discipline. This mockup used "Phantom Garden".


One formatting issue I'm considering is whether it would be better to use tabloid size pages (11x17) instead of standard 8.5x11. The document threatens to be extremely long (~300 pages for the disciplines chapter alone) and tabloid would condense that significantly. Standard size is more printer-friendly but I highly doubt anyone will be printing this. Tabloid size is especially convenient for PRCs:

PRC standard size
PRC tabloid size

[ARTHAN]

Hello. This project seems interesting. Is there any way I can help you guys finish it? And what is your goal in general?

[Elves]

Hi, glad you're interested. Here are some ways you could help:

- Write a legacy weapon. Look at post 2 on page 1 for more info.

- Write new maneuvers. We need new Devoted Spirit maneuvers in particular. You can also simply write a maneuver based on an effect you think would be cool and then we'll fit it into the most appropriate discipline.

- Create stat blocks for sample NPCs. We need a few of these. Say if you want to do this and I'll give you the info.

- Finally, this is on the backburner right now, but you're free to contribute lore of any kind for the chapter on the Nine Swords setting.

And what is your goal in general?

Step 1: Post a completed playtest document in the 3.5 forum to get feedback. ETA 2 months.
Step 2: Once playtest feedback has been incorporated, create finalized PDF document. Post it several places on the internet.

[ARTHAN]

Hi, glad you're interested. Here are some ways you could help:

- Write a legacy weapon. Look at post 2 on page 1 for more info.

- Write new maneuvers. We need new Devoted Spirit maneuvers in particular. You can also simply write a maneuver based on an effect you think would be cool and then we'll fit it into the most appropriate discipline.

- Create stat blocks for sample NPCs. We need a few of these. Say if you want to do this and I'll give you the info.

- Finally, this is on the backburner right now, but you're free to contribute lore of any kind for the chapter on the Nine Swords setting.




Step 1: Post a completed playtest document in the 3.5 forum to get feedback. ETA 2 months.
Step 2: Once playtest feedback has been incorporated, create finalized PDF document. Post it several places on the internet.

So, it is a HUGE project to recreate the Book of Nine Swords (Tome of Battle) of the 3.5ed era. However, you want feedback from the 3.5ed community for a game that is based on a book that the 3.5ed community hate because it reminds them of 4ed? That is exactly what I do not understand. I am harsh but there is a huge chance for the 3.5ed community to give negative feedback just because it is the ToB. I would love to help despite of that but do we have a backup plan if a flop occurs during the feedback phase? I am absolutely not trying to demoralize us right now, I am just a realist... We absolutely need a backup plan.

Now, on topic:

In my Clerics & Crusaders original system, I use a modifiers-based system to create weapons with stats, abilities and everything. It may come handy to create legacy weapons here, with a slight modification of course. The link to the Clerics & Crusaders are the following:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...-amp-Crusaders
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...5#post24551135

also, I like to create villages with every single NPC detailed like I did with the city Dwarvenna here:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...Universe-(WIP)

Hope I can help with everything. :D

[Elves]

However, you want feedback from the 3.5ed community for a game that is based on a book that the 3.5ed community hate because it reminds them of 4ed?

TOB is viewed very positively by people who know the 3e system well. The book got some kneejerk dislike back in the day, but there's no real basis to that and you don't see it much around here. In fact this project is mainly a compilation of stuff posted on this forum.

I would love to help despite of that but do we have a backup plan if a flop occurs during the feedback phase?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's an extremely niche and obscure side project done for personal satisfaction. 100 people tops will ever see it.

Of course, I hope the people who do see it like it. I hope it feels like it has care put into it. The original book didn't just present this as a bare-bones mechanical framework, it went to the trouble of feeling special.

[Primal Fury]

Okay, so how did you want the individual forms to work with Dynamic Form Transition? Were you thinking actual bonuses to certain things, or something more tactical? As a base effect, whenever a character transitions into a form, they may change the stance they're currently in to one from the discipline that matches the form, but that's a given.

What do forms DO?

To keep myself from going insane, I'll stick with the main nine disciplines.

[Elves]

Context? You're thinking about integrating your gun subsystem with TOB?

One way to integrate would be to port your system into a "gunsage" variant.

I was also planning to take specific effects from your system and port them as Black Rain maneuvers, whenever you finish.

[D&D_Fan]

How would my sci-fi weapons integrate into the systems? Would certain abilities work differently with lasers?

Example: a rain of bullets could not be done with lasers.
Ex2: special shot deals more damage? Would it be converted into the appropriate type?

You said you might use some of my ideas, but I am wondering if you took special subclass abilities into account.

[D&D_Fan]

Maybe you could put it in a sidebar.

[Primal Fury]

Context? You're thinking about integrating your gun subsystem with TOB?

Oh no, I just remembered you mentioning that each of the nine disciplines having its own "Form" might be an interesting way to integrate the Dynamic Transitions. Was I mistaken in thinking you wanted to pursue that?

The tactics are coming along, bit by bit. I need to do research on military science to start with. I like the idea of novice gunslingers feeling very much like run-of-the-mill soldiers with their Fundamental Tactics. Cover Shooting, Suppressing Fire, Dodge Rolling, Combat Crawling. That sort of thing. It's meant to remain dynamic at all levels, but the more advanced tactics make things feel cinematic.

[Elves]

Not sure I said that, I do think the triggered stance changes are a really cool idea but, it doesn't work outside of a specifically tailored set of stances and maneuvers that are made to work with it.

I know your system is supposed to be class-agnostic, but at a certain level the design becomes so holistic that it sounds like you're describing a specific class with specific gameplay (and at a certain level of intricacy, putting it on top of an already existing character becomes too complex). Might not be a bad idea to take it for a test run as a gunslinger base class.

[Primal Fury]

Not sure I said that, I do think the triggered stance changes are a really cool idea but, it doesn't work outside of a specifically tailored set of stances and maneuvers that are made to work with it.

My mistake then.