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  1. - Top - End - #301
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Wait a minute, why did the ABD care that V killed her son?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Certainly. You mean a gold dragon, right?
    It was a Coatl in one game I played. My initial reaction was 'he's being *too* nice, this is some kind of test!'

  2. - Top - End - #302
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wait a minute, why did the ABD care that V killed her son?

    Quote Originally Posted by Borris View Post
    In French, the turkey was one called India's chicken (poule d'Inde).

    Now it's literally just called India's (dinde).
    Ah, yes... along with "blé D'INDE" (maize), "cochon D'INDE" (guinnea pig), and probably a few other things I can't recall. I never realized that's where "dinde/dindon" came from, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    I like how either he cut his hand off in a spur of the moment, or, knowing the toxicity of the basilisk, chose to stab it and cut his hand off as the easier option to throwing the spear.
    Priorities. ;)
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    The scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.

  3. - Top - End - #303
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreatWyrmGold's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wait a minute, why did the ABD care that V killed her son?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Oh, I know, i just couldn't resist.
    It can sometimes be hard to tell...


    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Actually, that isn't a small dragon, that's a basilisk. It's in Pliny, the Pharsalia, and Leonardo's bestiary. (In the Pharsalia, the effect is cut short by the horseman by chopping off his own hand with the sword).
    The line between different types of reptilian beasties can be awfully blurry. Especially when the book I read about this creature from had an illustration of what was definitely a small dragon next to the story.
    ...Or was it just mentioning that one when talking about another poisonous dragon? Look, I haven't actually cracked open the book in years and it's sitting in storage, I'm a bit fuzzy on the details.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    The Chimera. It’s a singular monster, not a breed.
    On one hand, "chimera" is often used as a word to describe amalgamations of other living things. On the other hand, I don't know why, because zillions of monsters are amalgamations of other living things.
    (Maybe it means something fusiony or liminal in Greek?)


    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    For instance, the Tarasque is frequently depicted as a lion-headed Anklyosaurid thing, but there are some that have it resembling a small dragon like creature.
    And one weirdo made it some kind of feral Bowser thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Can you tell me the name of a famous medieval dragon that can fly?
    Reeally wish I had my old dragon-mythology books right now...it was conveniently organized by shape, e.g. separating two-legged winged dragons and four-legged winged dragons into chapters separate from big snakes, lindworms, four-legged wingless dragons, f*ing weird dragons...
    Well, this is what Wikipedia is for. (I didn't even have to go deeper than the "list of dragons" entries that got put into the table! Convenient.)
    Wyverns and Y Ddraig Goch (aka "that dragon on the Welsh flag") are the obvious examples. Wikipedia also mentions the zomok (a Hungarian flying snake), the Cuélebre (Asturian/Leonese flying snakes), the Bolla and its "evolved"* form Kulshedra (winged snakes...with four legs, not sure that counts), multi-headed Slavic dragons which leave trails of fire as they fly, shape-shifting (but naturally winged) dragons from Chuvashian legend, and a bunch of dragons that are mentioned as sometimes being portrayed with wings.
    Also a dragon that only wakes up on St. George's day, which seems like a bad sleep schedule if that's the St. George I think it is.


    Chinese dragons are more closely resemble chimeras as they too made out of many different animals.
    ...So do lots of mythical creatures. Off the top of my head: Centaurs, mermaids, the Minotaur, the Piasa Bird (which basically looks like a Western and a Chinese dragon had an ugly kid), the manticore, werewolves, unicorns, arguably yetis/sasquatches/etc, the bunyip, the (mythic) tarrasque...

    Twilight vampires comes to mind...
    Difference being, most people still think of Twilight vampires as being "not real vampires". Most people think of the lung/long as being dragons.

    I also don't think there is much correlation between DnD and chinese dragons. It's not like "not all dragons are evil" is a sentiment that needed to be came from chinese. It's a logical step for species with human-like intelligence.
    And yet, Tolkien and other authors drawing primarily from medieval literature often did make dragons universally evil, just like European mythology did.
    Besides, it's not just "not all dragons are evil". If you knew half of what you imply you do about Eastern dragons, and read the Gold Dragon's monster manual entry, you'd recognize some pretty dang transparent references to Chinese beliefs about dragons. No Western dragons I'm aware of regularly shapeshift into human form, live in undersea pearl palaces, or have f*ing catfish whiskers!

    *That is how Wikipedia describes it. I guess it's a mythical Pokemon?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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  4. - Top - End - #304
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wait a minute, why did the ABD care that V killed her son?

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    It can sometimes be hard to tell...
    The alternate punchline was referring to my own post, and referencing Halo: CE.
    Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.

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  5. - Top - End - #305
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Post Re: Wait a minute, why did the ABD care that V killed her son?

    Wow. I haven't seen a Adult Black Dragon discussion in years. Man this takes me back.

    Anyway to answer the OP, the Adult Black Dragon cared because she cared. Even given the premise that dragons don't generally care about their offspring after their birth, dragons have usually been represented as intelligent creatures.

    *B.I.T.T. thinks about the Empress of the Kingdom of Blood*

    Sentient...they're represented as sentient creatures. Thus they all have their own sets of values. The Adult Black Dragon clearly valued her family, probably even more so after losing her mate (as mentioned in OOTS #628). No doubt there are plenty of dragons who regard their children in much different ways. Any that's just my two cents on the matter.
    "Nobody likes a screaming clown. It puts one off one's feed." - Lore Sjoberg

  6. - Top - End - #306
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Wait a minute, why did the ABD care that V killed her son?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Certainly. You mean a gold dragon, right?
    Nope. Nescafé gold blend shows that one is definitely the type of dragon that will serve you coffee.

  7. - Top - End - #307
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    martianmister's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wait a minute, why did the ABD care that V killed her son?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    The Chimera. It’s a singular monster, not a breed.
    Not the Chimera, chimera with lowercase. "Any fantastic creature with parts from different animals."

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    Reeally wish I had my old dragon-mythology books right now...it was conveniently organized by shape, e.g. separating two-legged winged dragons and four-legged winged dragons into chapters separate from big snakes, lindworms, four-legged wingless dragons, f*ing weird dragons...
    Well, this is what Wikipedia is for. (I didn't even have to go deeper than the "list of dragons" entries that got put into the table! Convenient.)
    Wyverns and Y Ddraig Goch (aka "that dragon on the Welsh flag") are the obvious examples. Wikipedia also mentions the zomok (a Hungarian flying snake), the Cuélebre (Asturian/Leonese flying snakes), the Bolla and its "evolved"* form Kulshedra (winged snakes...with four legs, not sure that counts), multi-headed Slavic dragons which leave trails of fire as they fly, shape-shifting (but naturally winged) dragons from Chuvashian legend, and a bunch of dragons that are mentioned as sometimes being portrayed with wings. Also a dragon that only wakes up on St. George's day, which seems like a bad sleep schedule if that's the St. George I think it is.

    *That is how Wikipedia describes it. I guess it's a mythical Pokemon?
    I'm not sure how famous are those, or how reliable that list is. It even list a turkish dragon named Evren (Universe?!) I never heard before. Dragons are not really a part of turkish myths.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    And yet, Tolkien and other authors drawing primarily from medieval literature often did make dragons universally evil, just like European mythology did.
    Like these?
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    Besides, it's not just "not all dragons are evil". If you knew half of what you imply you do about Eastern dragons, and read the Gold Dragon's monster manual entry, you'd recognize some pretty dang transparent references to Chinese beliefs about dragons. No Western dragons I'm aware of regularly shapeshift into human form, live in undersea pearl palaces, or have f*ing catfish whiskers!
    Yet only Golden Dragons had that distinct look. There is many kinds of inspirations behind DnD dragon designs, chinese dragons are just one of them.
    Last edited by martianmister; 2019-04-10 at 05:48 PM.
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  8. - Top - End - #308
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreatWyrmGold's Avatar

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    Default Re: Wait a minute, why did the ABD care that V killed her son?

    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Not the Chimera, chimera with lowercase.
    A couple of other people responded to chimera-related points. I wonder how they feel about being ignored.

    I'm not sure how famous are those, or how reliable that list is. It even list a turkish dragon named Evren (Universe?!) I never heard before. Dragons are not really a part of turkish myths.
    1. Define "famous". They're not "top 5 dragon myth" famous, but they're not that obscure.
    2. Define "reliable". You're not, I dunno, accusing Wikipedia editors of making up dragon myths or anything, are you?
    3. You sort of abandoned the part of the debate where you were claiming that dragon-like creatures which were different in some ways from (your conception of) "famous medieval dragons" weren't real dragons.

    Like these?
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    ...Do you need me to define "often" for you?
    Yes, sometimes there were stories with friendly dragons. There are sometimes stories with friendly [insert most kinds of monsters here]; does that mean it's incorrect to say zombies/vampires/Black Lagoon monsters/etc are often portrayed as inherently evil?
    Perhaps it's not surprising that you half-abandoned this part of the argument. It doesn't have much ground to stand on.

    Yet only Golden Dragons had that distinct look. There is many kinds of inspirations behind DnD dragon designs, chinese dragons are just one of them.
    Gold dragons are the obvious ones, but there are elements of non-European dragon myths in other dragon species, particularly the metallic ones. (How many metallic dragons have incredible shapeshifting abilities which would be typical of Eastern dragons, but AFAIK unheard of among Western ones?)
    Besides, you said:
    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    I also don't think there is much correlation between DnD and chinese dragons.
    I'd call a core species of dragon being almost wholly constructed out of Chinese dragonlore "much".
    Quote Originally Posted by The Blade Wolf View Post
    Ah, thank you very much GreatWyrmGold, you obviously live up to that name with your intelligence and wisdom with that post.
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