OOTS #1159 - The Discussion Thread

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm actually wondering how long has it been since the battle with Greg?

Specifically, did Durkon and Hilga had a chance to memorize spells?

Or are we to assume they are depleted of at least everything we've seen them cast before?

They had a few hour's sleep, and people are arriving for the mid-morning vote, so it's likely morning, which means spells have been refreshed.

Grey Wolf

[hamishspence]

I think that the rules for Summon are different than those for creatures that come through with Gate. Which could mean that if the Death Work gets killed here, it's actually dead, not just sent back to its home plane.

Yup:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverv....htm#summoning
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverv...ns.htm#calling
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm

Casting a gate spell has two effects. First, it creates an interdimensional connection between your plane of existence and a plane you specify, allowing travel between those two planes in either direction.

Second, you may then call a particular individual or kind of being through the gate.

Calling Creatures
The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to your aid (a calling effect). By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling.

Whether it simply passed through on cue from Hel, or was actually Called via the spell option, it's properly there, and can be "killed for real".

[gatemansgc]

i was not expecting the worm to have so much personality lol

[BlueHydra]

I thought the worm would be bigger.

[KorvinStarmast]

I thought the worm would be bigger.

That joke was offered up in the previous thread.

[hroþila]

I think that the rules for Summon are different than those for creatures that come through with Gate. Which could mean that if the Death Worm gets killed here, it's actually dead, not just sent back to its home plane.

On the other hand, a single Dismissal spell could just send it back home intact.

Yup:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverv....htm#summoning
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverv...ns.htm#calling
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm

Casting a gate spell has two effects. First, it creates an interdimensional connection between your plane of existence and a plane you specify, allowing travel between those two planes in either direction.

Second, you may then call a particular individual or kind of being through the gate.

Calling Creatures
The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to your aid (a calling effect). By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling.

Whether it simply passed through on cue from Hel, or was actually Called via the spell option, it's properly there, and can be "killed for real".

Aww man. Thanks for the info. I hope they dismiss it then.

[Mightymosy]

Can I eat them?


Funny. Almost like MitD in his earlier days :-D

[dtilque]

I'm actually wondering how long has it been since the battle with Greg?

Specifically, did Durkon and Hilga had a chance to memorize spells?

Or are we to assume they are depleted of at least everything we've seen them cast before?

They're going to wait until after Durkon prepares his spells, Raises Minrah, and she prepares her spells. I assume Hilgya will also prepare new spells, too.

[Jasdoif]

Aww man. Thanks for the info. I hope they dismiss it then.

Note that nightcrawlers can plane shift once per day; and the Order has better things to do than prevent it from leaving, or chase it down after it leaves.

[Heksefatter]

I wanna invite that Nightcrawler to my next game night. It's hilarious.

[ellindsey]

Aww man. Thanks for the info. I hope they dismiss it then.

Dismissal is probably their best option for getting rid of it, as it would be a lot easier than actually trying to fight that thing. But it has a really good Will save (+23 according to the SRD), so that's not going to work unless they can boost the spell DC or lower its save somehow.

[hroþila]

Note that nightcrawlers can plane shift once per day; and the Order has better things to do than prevent it from leaving, or chase it down after it leaves.

Can it do that even if it means abandoning its service? I'm assuming Gonthor is high enough level to control it, rather than simply relying on the worm's willingly obeying him as per Hel's wishes.

[Curupira]

Dismissal is probably their best option for getting rid of it, as it would be a lot easier than actually trying to fight that thing.

But can the Order really dismiss it?

Casting a gate spell has two effects. First, it creates an interdimensional connection between your plane of existence and a plane you specify, allowing travel between those two planes in either direction.

Second, you may then call a particular individual or kind of being through the gate.

Calling Creatures
The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to your aid (a calling effect). By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling.

Whether it simply passed through on cue from Hel, or was actually Called via the spell option, it's properly there, and can be "killed for real".

Based on Hamishspence's response, I think the Nightcrawler can't be dismissed.

[Jasdoif]

Can it do that even if it means abandoning its service? I'm assuming Gonthor is high enough level to control it, rather than simply relying on the worm's willingly obeying him as per Hel's wishes.

Well, the Exarch was about to leave without offering a payment; if he was controlling it, that'd mean he was only expecting it to be around for about two minutes. So I'm pretty sure it's not controlled.

Even if it was, we do have precedent for a creature leaving after the death of its controller (it says "If the boss is dead I'm clocking out early"). And it's the vampires the Order is really after; if they can reasonably bypass the nightcrawler, they'll do so.

[hamishspence]

Based on Hamishspence's response, I think the Nightcrawler can't be dismissed.

Dismissal works on any extraplanar creature:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dismissal.htm

the problem is that with 25 HD, and V being more like 15HD or so, the save DC is at -10.

[ellindsey]

But can the Order really dismiss it?
Based on Hamishspence's response, I think the Nightcrawler can't be dismissed.

This spell forces an extraplanar creature back to its proper plane if it fails a special Will save (DC = spell’s save DC - creature’s HD + your caster level). If the spell is successful, the creature is instantly whisked away, but there is a 20% chance of actually sending the subject to a plane other than its own.

It looks to me like a successful Dismissal spell will send the Death Worm back to its home plane, regardless of how it got where it is now. Provided you can make it fail that Will save, which will be difficult.

[SlashDash]

Okay, so everyone are refreshed.

This might bring the question of -
Did Hilga scry again or not?

Not sure if they have a decent item to base the scry on.

[Resileaf]

Considering the difficulty of dismissing it, I think it's more likely that the worm will be fought more normally.
Besides, the Order is due for a victory in battle.

[Clistenes]

20 INT, 20 WIS, 18 CHA.

That death worm is probably the smartest, wisest, and most charismatic member of the vampire team left at this point.

Yeah, and it shows... Even if the Deathworm is able to tell who is undead and who isn't, how did the Exarch expect the Deathworm to know who were their enthralled pawns?

The Deathworm is a smart, competent and efficient ally...

[Ghosty]

It looks to me like a successful Dismissal spell will send the Death Worm back to its home plane, regardless of how it got where it is now. Provided you can make it fail that Will save, which will be difficult.

And get past its 31 Spell Resistance.

This thing is going to be a toughy if played straight. If Durkon is able to pop the roof of the cavern with that hammer, will the daylight flooding in cause the worm to want to flee the area? I thought from the description at the SRD that nightshades really hated daylight and tried to avoid it.

[Fyraltari]

V's explanation: to help all of the non-D&D playing people who like the strip.

If that was the aim it was unecessary. People protecting stuff having Invisibility Purge makes plenty of sense on its own.

None of the vampires have had names so far.

Grey Wolf

Two of them do. Their former leader was called Durkon Allotrope Thundershield and their current one Gontor Hammerfell. sure other people share(d) those names but it'snotl ike homonyms aren't a thing and these names are tied to the only identity the vampires have. Just use an * to be clear who you mean.

Okay, so everyone are refreshed.

This might bring the question of -
Did Hilga scry again or not?

Not sure if they have a decent item to base the scry on.

I can't think of any item they would have that would belong to a vampire('s host) and they cn't replicate the "drinking fluid trick" since Little Whisker isn't with them. Of course they could get a lucky roll, but what are the odds of that?

[Concept]

I assume blackwing is saying "I told you so," as in eat crow.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

Well, this is a first: a black-and-baby-blue speech balloon, and I am rocking it.

[WindStruck]

It could be that while the worm is fighting, it accidentally opens a hole in the ceiling on the vampires. It's a long shot but that would be funny.

[BowStreetRunner]

I'm curious what language the vampire is speaking with the 'not-purple worm'.

[JohnnyTurbo]

So... is that thing a nightcrawler?

[xroads]

I just realized that the death worm has got its hands (errr.... jaws?), full. It can't really dig deep into the terrain. Instead it has to play goalie and deflect a half dozen potentially flying targets from breaching the perimeter.

[Ruck]

Haley's frustration with invisibility being dispelled: lesson learned (Guessing it came from one of her wands?)

It could have, but we've seen Vaarsuvius cast it on her before.

[Kantaki]

I'm going to start referring to this thing as Likable Deathworm now.

Wormy the likable Deathworm.

[Peelee]

It could have, but we've seen Vaarsuvius cast it on her before.

Invisibility ends when the invisible person attacks (among other triggers). The Greater version lets the unseen one attack while keeping it (which may make you appreciate Belkar's line way back when better).

The wand would save a spell slot, but I'm guessing V cast it on her for the Sneak Attack bonuses to apply.