How the heck do you cast a spell with a 24-hour casting time?

[St Fan]

A question that I can tell will be too much for the simple RAW question thread...

Some spells (like Awaken) require a 24-hour casting time. How is it even remotely possible for a living spellcaster?

I looked everywhere and there seems to be no particular rule about it; however, casting a spell with a casting time longer than 1 round is a full-round action, every round, and any distraction can require a concentration check.

That gotta be harrowing (although possible) for a casting of 1 hour, but 24 hours? The spellcaster is bound to get hungry, tired, needing the bathroom, or just plain bored out of his/her skull way before the spellcasting is completed.

(Yes, a lich might be able to pull it off... on the condition of having a greater attention span than Xykon.)

How could this be adjudicated in game terms?

And before anyone mention it, I know about the Rapid Spell metamagic feat. Which I consider pretty much a requirement for any spellcaster planning to cast a 24-hour spell, if only to reduce the hassle for everybody.

[Psyren]

If a spell takes more than an hour to cast, I use the wording from Legend Lore to cover off on this, since that spell can take even several weeks. It might not be a general rule but it's good enough for me.

[Feantar]

A question that I can tell will be too much for the simple RAW question thread...

Some spells (like Awaken) require a 24-hour casting time. How is it even remotely possible for a living spellcaster?

I looked everywhere and there seems to be no particular rule about it; however, casting a spell with a casting time longer than 1 round is a full-round action, every round, and any distraction can require a concentration check.

That gotta be harrowing (although possible) for a casting of 1 hour, but 24 hours? The spellcaster is bound to get hungry, tired, needing the bathroom, or just plain bored out of his/her skull way before the spellcasting is completed.

(Yes, a lich might be able to pull it off... on the condition of having a greater attention span than Xykon.)

How could this be adjudicated in game terms?

And before anyone mention it, I know about the Rapid Spell metamagic feat. Which I consider pretty much a requirement for any spellcaster planning to cast a 24-hour spell, if only to reduce the hassle for everybody.

Utilising a greater diaper of holding and a Everfull Mug of black coffee.

A lot of these spells have clauses that allow you to kinda sorta rest. Awaken doesn't which, I guess, means it is meant to be a harrowing endeavour?

[liquidformat]

I actually don't think it is really that unreasonable, after all simply having a ring of sustenance seems to take care of most of the issues for a cheap price of 2500gp. Anyways there are some real world things we can point to, for example there are some buddhist rituals that require fasting and constant prayer for an entire day. Yes it would be pretty rough for your standard muggle but considering that we are talking magic here and keeping in mind the powers of something as simple as ring of sustenance I don't think it is unreasonable to cast a spell for 24 hours.

[frogglesmash]

People can easily go 24 hours without eating, drinking, sleeping, or pooping, and with a little pre casting dehydration, going 24 hours without pissing also seems completely reasonable.

[denthor]

I agree with the legend lore answer. It states in part. Normal functions (eating, drinking, biological and even sleep) however you can not cast any other spell.

Remember part of that 24 hours is drawing the glyphs and using the material components in the proper order.

[heavyfuel]

If a spell takes more than an hour to cast, I use the wording from Legend Lore to cover off on this, since that spell can take even several weeks. It might not be a general rule but it's good enough for me.

You know, you gotta enjoy those moments when the rulings you've had for years turn out to have some support in the actual rules

[KillianHawkeye]

A lot of these spells have clauses that allow you to kinda sorta rest. Awaken doesn't which, I guess, means it is meant to be a harrowing endeavour?

Well awaken is mostly cast by Druids, and they generally don't mind eating berries and pissing in the woods. I'm sure that standing as still as a tree for 24 hours has got to be entry level Druid training. How do you think they commune with rocks and plants? Also, plant forms for wild shape.

If you want to speak to trees, you must think like a tree. Feel what the trees feel. When you become a tree in your mind, you can become a tree in reality.

[King of Nowhere]

It's not unreasonable to assume that a long ritual may allow short breaks to take care of physiological needs. Unless it wa specifically researched by a lich, in which case it may be an intentional drawback so that a living caster discovering the spell could not easily replicate it. If that was the case, I'd ask for a concentration check to remain attentive and awake all the time.

Still, even assuming no pauses are allowed, a ring of sustenance and a diaper will allow success. It may not be very dignified, but power is worth some sacrifices

[magic9mushroom]

just plain bored out of his/her skull

Given the amount of time it takes to master the wizard and cleric classes, I'm fairly confident in saying people particularly subject to that would have been weeded out.

It is hard, but not impossible, to maintain an activity for 24 hours. Some people have spent over 24 hours gaming continuously (though I would strongly advise against this, as that's the kind of session length where fatalities start to show up). Since all you need for somatic components is a free hand, it shouldn't be particularly more physically tiring than gaming, so you probably wouldn't pass out from exhaustion within that time (I'd recommend sitting down, though). You'd need natural ability and a fair bit of practice to be able to speak for that long continuously, though Strom Thurmond seems to have managed it (South Carolina senator who filibustered one of the US Civil Rights Acts for over 24 hours; turns out bad people can be determined too).

The food issue is very minor (I've gone over 24 hours without food myself, and while I could barely stand at about the 28-hour mark I was alright until shortly before then), but the fluid and excretion problems are noteworthy (not insurmountable).


I will note that the casting times of some epic spells are impossible to achieve without magical aid, although given the whole "epic spellcaster" thing this should be easily available.

[Segev]

Long-duration casting actions probably work more akin to magic item creation than "normal" spellcasting. Yes, you can go take a quick break for a meal, as long as you pause at a stage where the spell is stable. No, you can't leave it too long, or it will discharge/break down/get disturbed. You're not prepping any new spells during this time, so the fact that you're only catching naps of 0.25-2 hours max isn't hurting your functionality.

It may even be that you could leave it indefinitely and come back to it, technically, but leaving the setup you've done in place is not practical for most spells. Coming back to it cold might require restarting just to figure things out, or it might have time-specific variables that you've worked out once but have to re-work because the stars are out of alignment, now.

I'm even inclined to suggest that there's little to no "preparation" of those spells; casting and preparation in the slot likely happen more or less together, or the "prep" was some very basic start-up stuff for it that you can come back to, later.


It's like any job where you produce a work product that takes hours and hours to do. Even a janitor cleaning up all the bathrooms in a massive airport could tell you that, if he stops for too long, all his hard work is undone and he has to start over.

[ericgrau]

Awaken has a verbal component. I think the better question is how do you keep chanting for 24 hours without messing up any of the words on a dry throat, unable to pause even to re-saliva your mouth? Now eating, drinking or sleeping, I agree those are more than possible for 24 hours.

I agree that most likely taking care of basic needs is allowed in long casting time spells. But I also agree that even if you're a harsh DM about it, it's still possible. Well, as long as you're not actually chanting in every single round.

[magic9mushroom]

Long-duration casting actions probably work more akin to magic item creation than "normal" spellcasting. Yes, you can go take a quick break for a meal, as long as you pause at a stage where the spell is stable. No, you can't leave it too long, or it will discharge/break down/get disturbed. You're not prepping any new spells during this time, so the fact that you're only catching naps of 0.25-2 hours max isn't hurting your functionality.

It may even be that you could leave it indefinitely and come back to it, technically, but leaving the setup you've done in place is not practical for most spells. Coming back to it cold might require restarting just to figure things out, or it might have time-specific variables that you've worked out once but have to re-work because the stars are out of alignment, now.

I'm even inclined to suggest that there's little to no "preparation" of those spells; casting and preparation in the slot likely happen more or less together, or the "prep" was some very basic start-up stuff for it that you can come back to, later.


It's like any job where you produce a work product that takes hours and hours to do. Even a janitor cleaning up all the bathrooms in a massive airport could tell you that, if he stops for too long, all his hard work is undone and he has to start over.

This is a nice theory, but it has nothing to do with the rules (apart from the rules for Legend Lore, which are an exception). Speaking of rules, here's Rules Compendium on the matter.

LONGER TIMES
Casting a spell that has a casting time longer than 1 minute
doesn’t usually happen in combat. If it does, every round
of casting requires a full-round action, and all the actions
required to cast the spell must be consecutive and uninterrupted,
or the spell fails.

[Torpin]

if a dude can swim for 50 hours then a caster can cast a spell for 24 hours
http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/...est-ocean-swim

you forget that once you get to 5 level your characters are basically super human.

[Jay R]

I agree with the legend lore answer. It states in part. Normal functions (eating, drinking, biological and even sleep) however you can not cast any other spell.

I love the implicit assumption that eating, drinking, and sleeping are not biological.

[Psyren]

This is a nice theory, but it has nothing to do with the rules (apart from the rules for Legend Lore, which are an exception). Speaking of rules, here's Rules Compendium on the matter.

What action does it take to poop and pee (or eat and drink for that matter) by RAW?

I love the implicit assumption that eating, drinking, and sleeping are not biological.

I think he was trying to say "pooping/peeing" in a nicer way, much like how online players say "bio break" when they step away from the keyboard.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Torpin
if a dude can swim for 50 hours then a caster can cast a spell for 24 hours….

From this page:

"…Rogošić took drinks and food in the sea, and in this way did as many as 14 smaller meals, primarily fruit rich in carbohydrates and water."

Even a world-record swimmer can’t swim constantly, nor continue without food and drink. As others have said, it's completely reasonable to take small breaks.

.

[frogglesmash]

Human beings can go up to approx
75 days without pooping
21 days without food
7 days without water
36 hours without peeing

A 24 hour casting time is not an insurmountable problem that needs a lot of explaining.

[Troacctid]

Who said the spell was invented by humans? I bet elves would have no problem casting for 24 hours straight. They probably laughed when human druids tried to do the same thing and ended up soiling themselves.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Troacctid
I bet elves would have no problem casting for 24 hours straight.

No, it’s dwarves who find it hilarious that humans can’t manage a week of continual casting.

[AMX]

This is a nice theory, but it has nothing to do with the rules (apart from the rules for Legend Lore, which are an exception). Speaking of rules, here's Rules Compendium on the matter.

Looks like that rule only applies if the spellcasting happens in combat.

[Malphegor]

The metamagic Rapid Spell lowers it to one hour, (which is very silly since 1 day and 24 hours are different things when it comes to metamagic even though that is semantics at best, insane at worst), which is more manageable, but otherwise yeah it’s a bit grueling. Great for druids who haven’t got anything better to do because they’re jobless nincompoops, but a wizard has got stuff to do.

The other one like that I know of is Distilled Joy, and I’m not sure if anyone without that metamagic is really going to spend 24 hours effort to get a 100gp holy potion of dubious cleanliness that doesn’t even heal more than a paper cut, and gives you good vibes.

Maybe on an accelerated time plane it can be automated?

[ekarney]

Personally, I've never really thought of this and when my players have done something like this I say "Sure" and that's the end of it.

Thought I guess the assumption would be that you go into an almost trance-like state, getting so caught up in the magic, and having the weave flowing all around you in such an active way that you'd be almost meditating while casting such a long spell.

[KillianHawkeye]

Human beings can go up to approx
75 days without pooping

HOW??? By eating just barely enough to survive?

[frogglesmash]

HOW??? By eating just barely enough to survive?

Severe constipation.

[KillianHawkeye]

Severe constipation.

I can't tell if you're joking and that's very worrying....

[Razade]

A question that I can tell will be too much for the simple RAW question thread...

Some spells (like Awaken) require a 24-hour casting time. How is it even remotely possible for a living spellcaster?

I looked everywhere and there seems to be no particular rule about it; however, casting a spell with a casting time longer than 1 round is a full-round action, every round, and any distraction can require a concentration check.

That gotta be harrowing (although possible) for a casting of 1 hour, but 24 hours? The spellcaster is bound to get hungry, tired, needing the bathroom, or just plain bored out of his/her skull way before the spellcasting is completed.

(Yes, a lich might be able to pull it off... on the condition of having a greater attention span than Xykon.)

How could this be adjudicated in game terms?

And before anyone mention it, I know about the Rapid Spell metamagic feat. Which I consider pretty much a requirement for any spellcaster planning to cast a 24-hour spell, if only to reduce the hassle for everybody.

You're assuming that 24 hours of casting time is 24 hours of constant energy, effort and work where that's not written anywhere by RAW. I don't see it anywhere at least. Spell doesn't mean you have to be chanting all 24 hours of the casting.

[frogglesmash]

I can't tell if you're joking and that's very worrying....

This is where I got my number from.

[Knaight]

The longest US filibuster (constant talking by definition) done by one person was 24 hours and 18 minutes. That didn't involve somatic components, but it also wasn't delivered by an adventuring wizard with a huge amount of experience chanting.