Avengers: Endgame Discussion Thread

[Tvtyrant]

Spoiler: Does this need to be in spoilers? It's Iron Man 3...

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They were? I didn't think so, she only got them at the end of the film. I mean, I remember the removal of the metal shards from Tony, but as far as I recall there was never mention of Pepper losing her powers. I remember at the time I was hoping we'd see them used at some point in the future. I'd basically given up on that by now, of course, it's just that suddenly seeing her get in on the action but using armor instead of those powers was kind of confusing because of that.

Pepper's powers were from a drug which has a high chance of making you explode and is extremely addictive. Tony gives a quick after-speech about how he fixes the fire problem and then gets the shards out of his chest.

[Zalabim]

Spoiler: For length

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*meanwhile, in the past, in a rapidly diverging timeline*

*hydra agents picking themselves up, dusting off tony after his heart attack*
*desperate calls being made* "Where is Loki? What do you mean the sceptre and tesseract are missing?"
*Cap comes trotting up* "Hey guys, false alarm. I fought Loki while he looked like me and he knocked me out, but when I woke up the scepter stone was right next to me."
*hands it over to Hydra*

*meanwhile, further back in the past, in the continually diverging timeline*

*some random guard is walking through the room of many science experiments*
"Oh, what's that door doing open? Well the Tesseract is still in there. No problem"
*closes door*

*meanwhile, somewhat forward but still diverging*

*Quill wakes up with a splitting headache. Sits up*
"uhhhhhh. what the-?"
*notices powerstone, back in its ball, sitting on the ground in front of him*
"Oh."
...
"I am the GREATEST thief ever!"

*meanwhile, in Asgard, around that same time kind of*

*Asgardian guards mill about searching behind plant stands*
*Thor enters in a panic*
"This is crazy. I can't find Mjolinor anywhere and it isn't coming when I call it! Did you guys find the rabbit that attacked Jane yet?"
*Jane enters in a panic*
"Thor! You know how that rabbit attacked me earlier and stabbed me and took the ether out of me?"
"Yes."
"Well I was resting with my eyes closed and felt something land in my lap and I opened my eyes and look!"
*presents the ether in its little cylinder case*
"Oh. Wow."
*guard looking behind plant perks up*
"Oh, here's your hammer. just sitting here."
"How Odd"

*meanwhile on Vorymyr*

*Cap walks up to cliff edge*
*Red skull materializes*
"Greetings, Steven son of..."
"Oh shut up."
*casually tosses soul stone over the cliff*
*activates time jump*


*Meanwhile, back in manhattan*

*The hulk takes the time stone and activates his return time jump*
*No sooner has he left than the ancient one smiles and turns*
*Cap walks out from behind the doorway. Casually tosses the time stone to her.*
"I see your friend kept his word."
*sigh* "Yeah" Cap stretches, looks tired.*
*Ancient One smiles*
"And what will you do now? Will you return to your timeline?"
"I don't know.... I'm tired... I'm thinking about something else"

Spoiler

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It's kind of like that, but I imagine Cap uses the Time Stone on each of the other stones to put them back into their original forms. Then he ends up in 1970, puts the Tesseract back in the box, slips the time stone into a Western Union envelope, addresses it to "The Ancient One, 2012, New York," Signed, "I understand this reference."

[Saph]

So, skipping the time travel arguments . . . finally got to see it!

Spoiler: The Good

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• I really liked all the little cameos and callbacks. It felt like they were trying to tie the whole MCU together for a complete ending.

• Tony and Steve both got good, satisfying endings. It's sad to see RDJ leave the MCU, but this was a really good send-off – as someone earlier mentioned, the whole current version of the MCU is kind of Iron Man's story. I'm glad they didn't cheapen it by having him avoid death at the last second. In Steve's case, he's kind of always felt like a fish out of water being so temporally displaced. It was nice letting him go back and live out his life in his own time.

• "Hail Hydra". Normally I'm not a fan of meta-humour where you need to know the history, but that made me crack up.

• They did a pretty good job of making Widow/Hawkeye important to the storyline (and in making their plotlines interesting). Not easy when you're doing stuff on a cosmic power scale.

• End battle was loads of fun to watch. You could tell they were making sure it ended with a bang.

• Thor with a dad bod was hilarious. Must be the only time in Marvel history where they've had to get their male lead to fatten up instead of bulk up.

Spoiler: The Bad

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• The first 45 minutes or so was really slow and meandering. I get that they were trying to slow things down and deal with the aftermath of the 50% extinction, but it just didn't really work for me.

• The whole Ant-Man storyline was . . . eh. I guess they needed him for the plot, and the actor did a good job, but it was too much extra stuff squeezed in to a movie that was over-packed with characters already. The core of the movie was supposed to be about the original Avengers, and it worked best when it was focusing on them.

• I haven't seen Captain Marvel, but from her screentime in Avengers, the character seems terrible. So she's basically Superman, but without any of the things that makes Superman interesting? What's the point of even having her in the MCU? All she does is further stretch a power scale that was already overstretched – the original Avengers had Thor/Hulk on the same team as Hawkeye/Widow, and you want to add someone who's even MORE powerful? Doesn't help that the character's got the charisma of a brick.

• Power scales – in the last movie, Thor is able to take on Thanos with the Infinity Stones and nearly one-shot him. In this movie, Thor, Cap, and Iron Man lose as a team to a Thanos without the Infinity Stones. Yeah, you can rationalise it, but it feels like the character power levels are kind of arbitrary.

• "I'm just not feeling this king thing. I think you should take the role. You're a leader."
"I've done no leading at all during my entire time in this movie or any other."
"You'll be fine! Besides, I've spent the last five years as an alchoholic failure."
"I spent centuries as an alchoholic failure!"
"Look, I'm going to level with you, I already signed with GotG. That means someone needs to run this village, you're literally the only other named Asgardian left who isn't dead or evil or both, so . . . have fun!

Spoiler: Overall

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Really good! Worthy end to the first 'season' of the MCU. Marvel are going to make a ton of money from this movie, and cement a place in cinema history too, so props to them. They've earned it.

Unfortunately, Disney have a track record of running franchises into the ground, so there's a danger we're now going to get 40 movies worth of "MCU II: Make Even More Money". The reason these ones worked was that they had a library of good comic material to draw from, and a solid creative vision. Don't know whether that'll stick.

[Aedilred]

There was already an alternate timeline anyway. Cap didn't create one. From the moment they knocked out Star-Lord or let Loki escape or did any other thing that changed the past, the timeline split already. Cap just went back to the already split timeline and lived there. He didn't doom anyone. If anything he probably worked to stop Thanos from ever becoming a threat in that timeline in the first place, ultimately saving two timelines.

As I understood the Bruce/Ancient One conversation, the idea that they could return to the exact point the stone was stolen, return it, and use the Time Stone to smooth things over, thereby not splitting the timeline.

The events in New York do present a problem for that, but for at least four of the stones, this should work fine.

[Razade]

As I understood the Bruce/Ancient One conversation, the idea that they could return to the exact point the stone was stolen, return it, and use the Time Stone to smooth things over, thereby not splitting the timeline.

The events in New York do present a problem for that, but for at least four of the stones, this should work fine.

The bolded part is never mentioned or brought up. They just say the stones need to be returned "to their own time" and they leave it at that. Bruce says that and the Ancient One doesn't contradict him or clarify anything. All they say is good luck.

[darknite]

As I understood the Bruce/Ancient One conversation, the idea that they could return to the exact point the stone was stolen, return it, and use the Time Stone to smooth things over, thereby not splitting the timeline.

The events in New York do present a problem for that, but for at least four of the stones, this should work fine.

There must be a divided timeline. Thanos from the past (pre Infinity War, circa GotG 1) is destroyed in the present (post Infinity War, dusting, etc). So while they posit that a person traveling into the past is really just continuing on with their future they don't address when someone ventures into the future and ends their existence, making any other normal timeline actions they made in their native timeline moot.

That is, there must be a timeline where Thanos makes the snap because otherwise you don't have a movie, and you there must be a timeline where Thanos never gets a chance to snap because he's been destroyed. Or possibly they play Bill & Ted and knowing that Thanos will subvert Nebula, travel back to restore the stone and strive keep his knowledge of their actions a secret (this time). Yikes!

[Chen]

There must be a divided timeline. Thanos from the past (pre Infinity War, circa GotG 1) is destroyed in the present (post Infinity War, dusting, etc). So while they posit that a person traveling into the past is really just continuing on with their future they don't address when someone ventures into the future and ends their existence, making any other normal timeline actions they made in their native timeline moot.

That is, there must be a timeline where Thanos makes the snap because otherwise you don't have a movie, and you there must be a timeline where Thanos never gets a chance to snap because he's been destroyed. Or possibly they play Bill & Ted and knowing that Thanos will subvert Nebula, travel back to restore the stone and strive keep his knowledge of their actions a secret (this time). Yikes!

The main timeline has both the snap and Thanos dying twice in it. That's the "prime" timeline from the majority of the character's point of view.

Assuming they put all the stones back into their proper places (somehow) all those timelines are restored to what they were always going to be barring some butterfly effect type of thing, except the timeline where Loki escapes with the Tesseract. That timeline is altered and remains altered to unknown effect. There are 2 other altered timelines. The one where Cap spends his life with Peggy and the one that Thanos time travels AWAY from.

[Hopeless]

I wish they had thought about a post credit scene with Cap returning the infinity stones because the ones above sound hilarious to me!

Apologies just noticed my mistake!

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So Cap got Dr Strange to point out how to use the time stone to restore the infinity stones to their previous state?

I can just imagine him rewinding time to recover the infinity stone Loki stole, but leaving him free asking him when he's finished running to stop for a chat about preventing his supposed death.

The way I see it since time hasn't collapsed with Thanos dying early it should be possible for the 2012 version of Loki to swap places with the current version explaining what Loki was trying to tell him during Infinity Wars.

Same goes for Gamora, but we'll see if Disney takes the hint and uses this to bring both of those characters back.

Oh lord same would apply for Black Widow wouldn't it if Cap recognised this escape clause?!

[Draconi Redfir]

Spoiler: on Thanos

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honestly, i don't think Thanos being destroyed in the future is really an issue for the past / alternate timeline.

The way i see it, the moment Thanos and Co jump forwards 9 years to 2027 or whatever, they've effectively removed themselves from the timelines, they are now "Extra" versions of their characters that only exist in the future to fight the Avengers.

When Captain America returns to the past and puts all the stones back, this prevents Thanos and Co from going to the future, therefore they do not leave the timeline, and that timeline still has an infinity war, allowing everything that happens between guardians of the Galaxy and Endgame to play out as it's supposed too.

Basically, Three Thanos. The first is natural to the Endgame timeline, the second enters the endgame timeline after leaving his own, and the third is a version of the second who never left his own timeline.

[Hopeless]

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I'm more inclined to think that when Thanos is "killed" at the end of Endgame he's actually reasserted back into his original place in space and time with no memory of the events that led to him discovering the Future Nebula and acting on her information.

Those alternate timelines can only last as long as the one causing them so I believe Future Nebula killed her younger self, Past Gamora fled and Thanos and his armies "died".

Loki fleeing with the Space Stone is why I think he will eventually swap places with his older self to fake his "death" as he will by that point recognise this is how he escapes dying at Thanos's hands...

Ah I'm thinking too much on this as it is!

[Lethologica]

Spoiler: on Thanos

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honestly, i don't think Thanos being destroyed in the future is really an issue for the past / alternate timeline.

The way i see it, the moment Thanos and Co jump forwards 9 years to 2027 or whatever, they've effectively removed themselves from the timelines, they are now "Extra" versions of their characters that only exist in the future to fight the Avengers.

When Captain America returns to the past and puts all the stones back, this prevents Thanos and Co from going to the future, therefore they do not leave the timeline, and that timeline still has an infinity war, allowing everything that happens between guardians of the Galaxy and Endgame to play out as it's supposed too.

Basically, Three Thanos. The first is natural to the Endgame timeline, the second enters the endgame timeline after leaving his own, and the third is a version of the second who never left his own timeline.

Spoiler

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Captain America putting the stones back doesn't prevent 2014!Thanos from going to the future. 2014!Thanos went to the future because Nebula showed up in his time; it has nothing to do with the presence or absence of Infinity Stones in his time. And Hulk's appeal to the Ancient One only works if putting the stones back does not by itself create a new timeline - otherwise, returning the stones doesn't save the doomed timeline, it only creates a new un-doomed timeline. So there are only two timelines at issue, hence only two copies of Thanos, and they both end up in the Endgame timeline.

[Draconi Redfir]

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Captain America putting the stones back doesn't prevent 2014!Thanos from going to the future. 2014!Thanos went to the future because Nebula showed up in his time; it has nothing to do with the presence or absence of Infinity Stones in his time. And Hulk's appeal to the Ancient One only works if putting the stones back does not by itself create a new timeline - otherwise, returning the stones doesn't save the doomed timeline, it only creates a new un-doomed timeline. So there are only two timelines at issue, hence only two copies of Thanos, and they both end up in the Endgame timeline.

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what if Cap sneaks up behind nebula, hits her time-travel doohickey while she's having her headache, and then leaves the power stone behind? this will prevent Thanos from finding her and thus the future. Probably creating yet another timeline to be fair but yeah.

can't quite recall, but one of the main reasons 2014 thanos went forwards might have been because the stones were taken away from his timeline, so if the stones were still around, he might be less inclined to jump to the future? idk. just my thoughts.

[Rakaydos]

Spoiler: Worst case, there are 5 timelines

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Timeline 1: Thanos snaps away everyone, then destroys the stones. 5 years later time travel is invented, unsnap, invasion from timeline 4's thanos, and thanos's army gets snapped. End of arc, but no stones available to stop universal threats. Main timeline.
Timeline 2: Battle of new York- Hydra believes Captian is theirs, Loki escapes with space stone. Time stone is definitely returned, Mind stone probably returned to hydra custody. Loki TV timeline
Timeline 3: Asguard- unknown permutations from Thor temporarally missing his hammer, Captian returning the hammer in the middle of a dark elf invasion, and thor's mother possibly avoiding her destined death. Possible good ending?
Timeline 4: Space: Gamora never interfere's with Starlord/rocket's dustup, escape attempt from prison fails. Ronan loses Thanos's favor, is defeated by the Nova Corps. Thanos invades Timeline 1, never returns. Peace Reins.
Timeline 5: 1960s- Howard is a bit gentler on young Tony because of his conversation with Old Tony. Steve hooks up with Peggy, gives SSR spoilers about Hydra, Mar-Vel/skrulls, and infinity stones on earth. Shield doesn't have Hydra in it, hapilly ever after.

[Rodin]

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I'm more inclined to think that when Thanos is "killed" at the end of Endgame he's actually reasserted back into his original place in space and time with no memory of the events that led to him discovering the Future Nebula and acting on her information.

Those alternate timelines can only last as long as the one causing them so I believe Future Nebula killed her younger self, Past Gamora fled and Thanos and his armies "died".

Loki fleeing with the Space Stone is why I think he will eventually swap places with his older self to fake his "death" as he will by that point recognise this is how he escapes dying at Thanos's hands...

Ah I'm thinking too much on this as it is!

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It seems simple enough to me, you just go with multiverse theory and it works just fine. Every time they change the past that becomes an alternate timeline, with no effect on "the future".
So there's a timeline out there where Thanos just kinda vanishes and the universe rejoices. Multiverse theory is actually the "safest" way to do time travel, because it is impossible to create a paradox. Anything that would affect future you and prevent you from changing the past isn't actually affecting you. It's affecting an alternate version of you in the future who does something else as a result of the changes you've created.

The conversation with the Ancient One is basically a defiance of the usual alternate universe rule that "our universe is the only one of consequence". The people in the other timelines matter, and she wasn't going to let Banner destroy untold billions just to fix his single timeline. Banner's compromise to bring the stone back doesn't change the fact that it's an alternate past - it just means that past has a fair shake going forward and can determine their own destiny.

As for Loki, I actually hope he doesn't return to the main MCU - or at least not immediately. Him Tesseracting him into the main timeline destroys the internal logic of Endgame. Instead, what should happen is that the Loki TV series will follow directly from him escaping New York, and we get a full AU story of Loki before he got all the character development. At the end of that, if they want to work out a way for him to Time Stone/Pym Particle his way back to the Prime universe, have at it.

[Lethologica]

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what if Cap sneaks up behind nebula, hits her time-travel doohickey while she's having her headache, and then leaves the power stone behind? this will prevent Thanos from finding her and thus the future. Probably creating yet another timeline to be fair but yeah.

can't quite recall, but one of the main reasons 2014 thanos went forwards might have been because the stones were taken away from his timeline, so if the stones were still around, he might be less inclined to jump to the future? idk. just my thoughts.

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So there are two of Thanos resulting from the events of the movie, and hypothetical Cap activity that could create another one. But hypothetical Cap activity could create any number of additional copies of Thanos, so it's not really meaningful.

[Olinser]

I wish they had thought about a post credit scene with Cap returning the infinity stones because the ones above sound hilarious to me!

Apologies just noticed my mistake!

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So Cap got Dr Strange to point out how to use the time stone to restore the infinity stones to their previous state?

I can just imagine him rewinding time to recover the infinity stone Loki stole, but leaving him free asking him when he's finished running to stop for a chat about preventing his supposed death.

The way I see it since time hasn't collapsed with Thanos dying early it should be possible for the 2012 version of Loki to swap places with the current version explaining what Loki was trying to tell him during Infinity Wars.

Same goes for Gamora, but we'll see if Disney takes the hint and uses this to bring both of those characters back.

Oh lord same would apply for Black Widow wouldn't it if Cap recognised this escape clause?!

I'm disappointed at the total lack of ANY post-credits scene.

Come on at least put a joke in. I was expecting Thor on a Stairmaster at the minimum.

[zimmerwald1915]

I'm disappointed at the total lack of ANY post-credits scene.

Come on at least put a joke in. I was expecting Thor on a Stairmaster at the minimum.

You're right, that wouldn't have undermined the tone of the ending at all.

Also, where are they supposed to get a StairMaster on the Guardians's ship.

[Draconi Redfir]

You're right, that wouldn't have undermined the tone of the ending at all.

Also, where are they supposed to get a StairMaster on the Guardians's ship.

Just get Groot to grow into one or something?

[Ramza00]

Also, where are they supposed to get a StairMaster on the Guardians's ship.

Rocket has this magical spray (nanotech?) In Guardians of the Galaxy 2 that does not just patch a broken ship full of holes but actually rebuilds the ship creating a new skeleton and then patching it. Director James Gunn compared it to a 3d printer and said Rocket stole the tech. Well we see it when Rocket and Starlord are arguing and Peter asks "What's your goal here?" Followed with Peter and Gamora leaving to get on Ego's ship and The Chain is playing in the background.

[Chen]

I interpret it as the timelines not allowing paradoxes. If you go back in time and shoot your grandfather you spawn a different timeline where your parents don't exist but you don't suddenly cease to exist.

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The Ancient one was worried about HER timeline which would be one of those split timelines if Hulk just walked off with the Time Stone, never to return. So presumably Cap "fixed" all the timelines by bringing the stones back exactly to when they were taken thus putting them back "on course". Soul stone was the easiest to put back. No one obtained the Soul stone between when Hawkeye got it and Thanos got it, so if you put it back anytime between those two instances you're fine, no upset timeline, things continue on as before. The Aether is a bit trickier since Thor spoke with his mother. But as long as the aether is back in Jane and everything still happens in the same way it did that timeline works out too. Power stone as long as Quill wakes up and gets the stone and escapes before Ronan's goons get him the overall timeline should be preserved too.

The final 3 (time, space and mind) are a problem. That timeline is ****ed since Loki got away with the Tesseract. Unless Cap could find Loki, get the Tesseract back and give him to Thor to take back to Asgard there's no way to fix this timeline even if he gives the time stone and the scepter back.

[Talakeal]

You're right, that wouldn't have undermined the tone of the ending at all.

Also, where are they supposed to get a StairMaster on the Guardians's ship.

A bowflex on the other hand...

[Lethologica]

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There are three possible states for each alternate timeline:
-Dies: If an Infinity Stone is taken but not returned. This is what The Ancient One is worried about.
-Splits: If the Infinity Stone is returned, but events caused by the time travelers diverge from the main timeline. This is never explicitly described, but must exist to accommodate paradoxical events that happened in the movie.
-Re-merges into main timeline: If the Infinity Stone is returned and no significant divergences occur. This is what Banner suggested to The Ancient One.

It's not totally clear what is a significant enough divergence to cause a split, but Loki's escape, Thanos' disappearance, and Steve's return to the past are definitely significant, while merely taking and returning an Infinity Stone is definitely not significant. The worst case is six timelines: Endgame, 2014!Thanos, 2012!Loki, 2013!Frigga, 1970!Howard Stark, past!Cap. (Rakaydos put the last two together, but technically we don't know if that's the case.)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

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There are three possible states for each alternate timeline:
-Dies: If an Infinity Stone is taken but not returned. This is what The Ancient One is worried about.
-Splits: If the Infinity Stone is returned, but events caused by the time travelers diverge from the main timeline. This is never explicitly described, but must exist to accommodate paradoxical events that happened in the movie.
-Re-merges into main timeline: If the Infinity Stone is returned and no significant divergences occur. This is what Banner suggested to The Ancient One.

It's not totally clear what is a significant enough divergence to cause a split, but Loki's escape, Thanos' disappearance, and Steve's return to the past are definitely significant, while merely taking and returning an Infinity Stone is definitely not significant. The worst case is six timelines: Endgame, 2014!Thanos, 2012!Loki, 2013!Frigga, 1970!Howard Stark, past!Cap. (Rakaydos put the last two together, but technically we don't know if that's the case.)

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I agree those are the possibilities, and early on in the thread I advocated for re-merging ("significant' in that context would be "time stone is gone from the timeline, because it's the timestone that uses its magic powers to make sure changes to the past don't get out of hand").

Unfortunately, it's been Jossed, and it is "splits" instead. Boring. We could have had a film about the History Monks. But no.

Grey Wolf

[Ramza00]

So this did not happened in the movie but can I suggest a double loop time travel theory?

Spoiler: What is the localized double loop, aka relativity?

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1) End game goes according to plan / the movie. This includes Thanos time traveling to the future.
2) Captain America returns to the past with all 5 infinity stones via quantum time realm form of time travel.
3) Captain America has been taught how to use the time stone form of time travel.
4) Captain America goes to the same events at the other time travelers. He then uses the time stone to synchronize at their exact entry point of the the other Avengers entering these other times / multiverse.
5) Captain America gives each of these people an infinity stone so they do not have to steal the infinity stone and thus you do not get the situation the mind stone is not in the scepter and the space stone is not in the tesseract / cosmic cube.
6) In addition Black Widow does not have to die. Black Widow now time travels with Captain instead of returning to her timeline
7) These realms continue as normal. Thanos still gets the infinity stones and does the snap.
8) Captain America and Black Widow return the time stone last to the Ancient One, she says thank you.
9) Captain America and Black Widow return to their time line.

Now Loki (2012), Gamora (2014), and Black Widow (2013) still exist for they are from the 1st time loop, but the 2nd time loop is now the iterating time loop. Furthermore these loops are self contained. The only person who has to die is Tony Stark and anyone else who died during the Battle over Avengers Headquarter (so 2014 Thanos died, but the other 2014 Thanos never left and became the 2018 Thanos who died 2 weeks later after Infinity War.)

The solution to any time travel paradox is another form of time travel combined with a multiple universe hacky sack. The Main MCU Endgame timeline only borrowed the infinity gauntlet for 48 hours like it is a cup of sugar, and it replaced the infinity gems at the end of the trials. So instead of A=>B and B=>A we now have A = > B = > C and instead of B referencing = > A it is now A => B => C => A

[Saph]

I'm pretty sure that by this point, you guys have spent more time and effort trying to make logical sense of the time travel in this movie than the writers did.

[tyckspoon]

I'm pretty sure that by this point, you guys have spent more time and effort trying to make logical sense of the time travel in this movie than the writers did.

Almost certainly. As soon as somebody brings up time travel in a work of entertainment the sensible thing to do is turn off your brain and just try to enjoy the ride, 'cause it's a big honkin' warning sign that There Be Nonsense Ahead.


Unrelated: The Ancient One implies the presence of the Infinity Stones is somehow essential to the health of a universe/timeline (or possibly it's just that removing one unbalances things, which potentially leads to undefined bad things.) The 'prime'/main timeline we are following at the end of the movie

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no longer has any Infinity Stones in it, unless we are to assume the movie lied to us and Thanos didn't actually destroy them. This suggests defeating Thanos is at best a Pyrrhic victory, and removing the Stones from their universe/timeline is actually doing some form of harm to the entire timeline. I'm almost certain the idea is just quietly swept under the rug and it's not going to get mentioned, although I suppose it could come up as a reference in later movies - maybe the lack of a Time Stone is what emboldens Dormammu to try and make another play for the prime dimension or something. Or they'll confirm that it is in fact the removal of only part of the set that presented the main risks, and since this time's set is gone all together it's mostly ok. Lessened, maybe, since they don't have that primal energy around, but not going to collapse into a Bad End.

[Mordar]

You're right, that wouldn't have undermined the tone of the ending at all.

Spoiler: But this doesn't?

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The rest of the Guardians suggesting Thor slice Quill apart to determine who will "lead" them?

- M

[Ramza00]

I'm pretty sure that by this point, you guys have spent more time and effort trying to make logical sense of the time travel in this movie than the writers did.

Yept the writers are probably drinking their success and hopefully their good paychecks for writting something that has made... _{check notes} ... $1.664 billion even though its only been out 6 days so far. So for context that makes it the #6 movie of all time in today's nominal dollars, and the 2nd highest MCU movie ever. Infinity War is #4 movie of all time and if Endgame makes 384 million more than Endgame will surpass it. And 404 million means it would be #3 movie of all time beating Star Wars: A Force Awakens. It is also already 60% of the way there to beating Avatar for #1. All by day 6.

[Lethologica]

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I agree those are the possibilities, and early on in the thread I advocated for re-merging ("significant' in that context would be "time stone is gone from the timeline, because it's the timestone that uses its magic powers to make sure changes to the past don't get out of hand").

Unfortunately, it's been Jossed, and it is "splits" instead. Boring. We could have had a film about the History Monks. But no.

Grey Wolf

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I'm not sure where you get that. The closest I've seen is the statement that every decision made in the past could create an alternate timeline, which is not the same as ruling out re-merging entirely.

I'm also not sure where you got the disappearance of the Time Stone from - that doesn't seem to follow from anything in the movie.

[Chen]

Unrelated: The Ancient One implies the presence of the Infinity Stones is somehow essential to the health of a universe/timeline (or possibly it's just that removing one unbalances things, which potentially leads to undefined bad things.) The 'prime'/main timeline we are following at the end of the movie

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no longer has any Infinity Stones in it, unless we are to assume the movie lied to us and Thanos didn't actually destroy them. This suggests defeating Thanos is at best a Pyrrhic victory, and removing the Stones from their universe/timeline is actually doing some form of harm to the entire timeline. I'm almost certain the idea is just quietly swept under the rug and it's not going to get mentioned, although I suppose it could come up as a reference in later movies - maybe the lack of a Time Stone is what emboldens Dormammu to try and make another play for the prime dimension or something. Or they'll confirm that it is in fact the removal of only part of the set that presented the main risks, and since this time's set is gone all together it's mostly ok. Lessened, maybe, since they don't have that primal energy around, but not going to collapse into a Bad End.

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I don't think it's an inherent issue of lacking stones but more that they won't be around for people to use to protect themselves, their planet or whatever from bad things. The Ancient One is completely right for her stone since if Hulk hadn't brought it back that timeline would have lost to Dormammu since Strange wouldn't have been able to use the time stone.

Now that I think about it I'm not sure why they wanted to put back ALL the stones anyways. Particularly the ones that no one is defending/owning. Like sure put the time stone back because the Ancient One needs it. But the Soul stone? No one even knew where that was for god knows how long and no one actively was saying "please put this back or my future is ****ed".