looking for PrC

[Thac0 Redeye]

I am looking for a PrC that will grant a level of arcane and divine spell levels. I have found Mystic Theurge in the DMG and the 2 in Complete Arcane that adds warlock and arcane or divine. Is there any others?

[Falontani]

True necromancer kind of does. Libris mortis

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...s-spellcasting

Fochlucan Lyrist
Eldritch Disciple
Green Whisperer*
Mystic Theurge
True Necromancer
Yathrinshee
Arcane Hierophant

[schreier]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...e-Handbook-WIP

Mystic Theurge(DMG): Arcane/Divine
Arcane Hierophant(RoW): Arcane/Divine,Wildshape tastiness
Folchuran Lyricist: Arcane/Divine

[StevenC21]

I am going to warn you that without very specific tricks, Theurging is a BAD IDEA.

[NecroDancer]

I am going to warn you that without very specific tricks, Theurging is a BAD IDEA.

To be fair one of my parties antagonists is a theurge and it’s pretty ok. They have high HP without having crazy high spells. The ability to use divine and arcane magic helped them supply their small cult with a lot of goodies.

It’s definitely underpowered for most PCs but as an NPC it can be fun to fight.

[Cosi]

Theurging is good if you can get into the Theurge PrC with only one level of primary casting lost, particularly if the PrC has good class features (e.g. Anima Mage). Theurging has the inherent problem that for all but the best-supported combinations, you eventually run out of Theurge levels and stop getting to progress your concept, which is dumb.

Do not take True Necromancer, it is terrible, and you get more arcane and divine casting by being a Fighter with a Wizard cohort who has a Cleric cohort.

[Biggus]

If you're looking to optimise, Theurges are fairly poor except in very specific circumstances (generally involving tricks to get 2nd-level spells of a particular type without taking the usual number of class levels required).

However, as full casters are so much stronger than other classes, they're still not exactly weak, and certain specific combos can be decent even without the early-entry tricks.

Arcane Hierophant is one of the best, combined with Mystic Theurge it can give you 9th-level Druid and Wizard spells, plus Wild shape as a 13th-level Druid.

Fochlucan Lyrist is only any good if you can find a way to get Evasion without losing caster levels. If so, combined with Arcane Hierophant and a level of Sublime Chord you get 8th-level Druid spells and 9th-level SC spells.

True Necromancer loses too many caster levels, and Yathrinshee is even worse.

At particular epic levels some combos work well as you can get two full sets of spells without losing caster levels if you take the Practised Spellcaster feat twice.

[Falontani]

Spontaneous Casting: A good cleric (or a neutral cleric of a good deity) can channel stored spell energy into healing spells that the cleric did not prepare ahead of time. The cleric can “lose” any prepared spell that is not a domain spell in order to cast any cure spell of the same spell level or lower (a cure spell is any spell with “cure” in its name). For example, a good cleric who has prepared command (a 1st-level spell) may lose command in order to cast cure light wounds (also a 1st-level spell). Clerics of good deities can cast cure spells in this way because they are especially proficient at wielding positive energy.
An evil cleric (or a neutral cleric of an evil deity), on the other hand, can’t convert prepared spells to cure spells but can convert them to inflict spells (an inflict spell is one with “inflict” in its name).
A cleric who is neither good nor evil and whose deity is neither good nor evil can convert spells to either cure spells or inflict spells (player’s choice), depending on whether the cleric is more proficient at wielding positive or negative energy. Once the player makes this choice, it cannot be reversed. This choice also determines whether the cleric turns or commands undead (see below). Exceptions: All lawful neutral clerics of Wee Jas (goddess of death and magic) convert prepared spells to inflict spells, not cure spells. All clerics of St. Cuthbert (god of retribution) and all nonevil clerics of Obad-Hai (god of nature) convert prepared spells to cure spells, not inflict spells.

Wizard 3/Cleric 1 may cast second level divine spells spontaneously. Wizard 5/Cleric 1 may cast 3rd level divine spells spontaneously.
Druids are the same way with their SNA.
I'm sure somewhere down the line an errata or rules compendium or something fixes this. But... By RAW...

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Wizard 3/Cleric 1 may cast second level divine spells spontaneously. Wizard 5/Cleric 1 may cast 3rd level divine spells spontaneously.
Druids are the same way with their SNA.
I'm sure somewhere down the line an errata or rules compendium or something fixes this. But... By RAW...

Huh, I like it!

On the subject of continuing a Theurge class past 10 levels, Legacy Champion (and to a lesser extent Uncanny Trickster) can pull it off with one more lost level. Legacy items have some serious drawbacks, but I doubt there are any as bad as losing 4 levels of casting from one of your classes. Plus you get actual class features thrown in for free!

[Segev]

Wizard 3/Cleric 1 may cast second level divine spells spontaneously. Wizard 5/Cleric 1 may cast 3rd level divine spells spontaneously.
Druids are the same way with their SNA.
I'm sure somewhere down the line an errata or rules compendium or something fixes this. But... By RAW...

I have literally never heard this trick suggested before. Between this and Precocious Apprentice, the only thing holding you back from entering Mystic Theurge at level 3 is the requirement of rank six in skills. (You need to be level 3 to get that, so you can't enter until level 4.)

This puts you 2 levels behind in one of the classes, anyway, but only 1 in whichever you take at level 3. You could manage with 2 levels behind in both (but keept the CL up to date) with a bloodline level taken at level 3. But I am not sure there are any bloodlines quite worth it, and you're not at the stage where the +1 to every level-dependent thing is going to really be cheese-worthy, so it probably isn't as good as just taking a second level of either cleric or wizard.

[Troacctid]

Wizard 3/Cleric 1 may cast second level divine spells spontaneously. Wizard 5/Cleric 1 may cast 3rd level divine spells spontaneously.
Druids are the same way with their SNA.
I'm sure somewhere down the line an errata or rules compendium or something fixes this. But... By RAW...

The rules specifically prohibit this.

[Segev]

The rules specifically prohibit this.

Could you provide a citation, please? Not that I doubt you or even want you to be wrong all that badly (since I imagine few DMs would permit this cheesy reading anyway), but simply saying "nope" (which is what "The rules prohibit this" without any backing amounts to) isn't very convincing.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Could you provide a citation, please? Not that I doubt you or even want you to be wrong all that badly (since I imagine few DMs would permit this cheesy reading anyway), but simply saying "nope" (which is what "The rules prohibit this" without any backing amounts to) isn't very convincing.

Rules Compendium p139:

OTHER SPONTANEOUS CASTING
Some spellcasters prepare spells, but they can cast certain
spells spontaneously as detailed in their class description.
A good-aligned cleric or a cleric of a good-aligned deity can
spontaneously cast a cure spell in place of a prepared spell of
the same level or higher, but not in place of a domain spell.
A druid can spontaneously cast a summon nature’s ally spell
in place of a prepared spell of the same level or higher. Such
spontaneous casting follows special rules for spontaneous
spellcasting, such as how metamagic feats interact with
casting time, but otherwise functions as normal spellcasting.
A multiclass spellcaster can’t cast a spontaneous spell
from one class in place of one from
another class.

[Segev]

Rules Compendium p139:

Ah, thanks. Okay, so back to needing Cleric 3/Wizard 1 (w/ Precocious Apprentice) to get into Mystic Theurge at level 5.

[Troacctid]

I would recommend Improved Sigil (Krau) to do it a level earlier with no rules problems.

[Segev]

I would recommend Improved Sigil (Krau) to do it a level earlier with no rules problems.

Is that the one that'll let you take Heighten Spell and apply it with a Divine Metamagic-like effect to transform 1st level spells into 2nd level spells?

That'd also work for any class that gave you 1st level spells, wouldn't it? No need for Precocious Apprentice anymore?

[Troacctid]

Is that the one that'll let you take Heighten Spell and apply it with a Divine Metamagic-like effect to transform 1st level spells into 2nd level spells?

That'd also work for any class that gave you 1st level spells, wouldn't it? No need for Precocious Apprentice anymore?

It's the one that lets you choose any two spells with verbal components and automatically heighten them one level for free. Works for any spellcasting class, requires no additional feats, also comes with Practiced Spellcaster as a racial ability.