Legendary Actions and More of Talakeal's Gaming Horror Stories

[Talakeal]

How did you respond to that?

Um?..... Crybabies!!

Bob has made it perfectly clear that he wants the Super Easy Video Game, where he never loses.

Now, he's seemingly rubbing off on this other Player, because apparently the baddie is supposed to be a Moron that just stands there and let's Mr I WIN spam that button.
And then this player blames you, and not Bob for their PC getting targeted. Instead of saying: "Hey, Wandman!! - stop for a few seconds and at least use a Healing Potion on a 'friend'!"

Ugh. Never lose video-gaming mentality; plus
No teamwork; And cursing (or threats to/actually leaving mid-game) at the DM for running the Game anywhere close to what it's supposed to be.

This should be just unacceptable.

Seriously:
End the Game

Inform the players that they no longer need to bother wasting their time coming to your game.

I'd say Stop the Game until they change their expectations, but: It's obvious that their playstyle isn't going to change.

Talakeal, I'm sorry to have to say it:
Find. A. New. Group!!

Even I, who will bend over backwards to help the group have Fun, simply could not tolerate this. It would cause me to pack up my stuff, and go watch YouTube (or whatever), until I found another Group.

If you're still sticking it out, I'm in Awe of your dedication, and except to see you achieve Enlightenment, when it's over.

Your always welcome to come read (and comment on) the Player and Character antics of my various Groups in Ancient Realms thread (or any other thread of mine that you feel like) in World Building.

The campaign only has a few sessions left. I am going to finish it out, then take the rest of the year off from gaming. Next year we are going to start a new campaign with someone else as the DM and hopefully some different players.


The thing about the other player, let's call him "Brian", is that he is on medication for depression, and one of the side effects is brief flashes of irrational anger. He is generally my best player, but just every few weeks something sets him off, he goes over the deep end for fifteen minutes or so, and is then fine.

[The Glyphstone]

I thought you were the only one who was willing to DM?

[Talakeal]

I thought you were the only one who was willing to DM?

Generally yes; I have talked "Brian" into giving it a try on a temporary basis, and we are going to start looking into bringing in some new players (and perhaps perspective DMs) or joining an existing group once the current campaign is done.

[Great Dragon]

@Talakeal: I look forward to reading the conclusion of the Campaign.

And wish you the best of luck on the next Group.

[The Glyphstone]

Generally yes; I have talked "Brian" into giving it a try on a temporary basis, and we are going to start looking into bringing in some new players (and perhaps perspective DMs) or joining an existing group once the current campaign is done.

Are you ejecting 'Bob' from a cannon during the transition? Please tell me you are ejecting 'Bob'.

[zinycor]

Generally yes; I have talked "Brian" into giving it a try on a temporary basis, and we are going to start looking into bringing in some new players (and perhaps perspective DMs) or joining an existing group once the current campaign is done.

Sorry man, but I don't think that's going to solve anything, specially if Brian has irrational outbursts, I doubt he would be composed enough to GM.

[Quertus]

Yeah, um, "unstable GM" does not a stable game make.

If you're going to have "anger issues" GM, aim for very, very short adventures - 5 sessions tops, and probably more like 2-3 sessions. Anything longer, and it becomes increasingly likely that he'll ruin all that effort at some point.

[MeimuHakurei]

Yeah, um, "unstable GM" does not a stable game make.

If you're going to have "anger issues" GM, aim for very, very short adventures - 5 sessions tops, and probably more like 2-3 sessions. Anything longer, and it becomes increasingly likely that he'll ruin all that effort at some point.

If the GM has mental health issues of occasional outbursts, it's most likely a good idea to have short breaks from time to time in order to enable stress relief of some sort.

[Great Dragon]

If the GM has mental health issues of occasional outbursts, it's most likely a good idea to have short breaks from time to time in order to enable stress relief of some sort.

Yeah. Like swapping out GM/s with him, so that he's only GMing twice a month.

Also, you shouldn't go more than 2 hours gaming without a 15-30 min break, just to check to see if he's still ok with continuing.

[Vknight]

Bing bang bosh i'm just so so confused and i feel bad for you and this argument about mechanics and more.

[OldTrees1]

Talakeal, I heard you when you told us that these occurrences are rare and that the group generally enjoys the structure of the game.

However, sometimes it is better to structurally address these pain points rather than excuse these outbursts based upon the rest of the time.

Have you seriously considered changing the structure of your game so that it is further away from these pain points even if the result is further from your vision of a perfect session? Aka have good sessions without terrible sessions rather than great sessions with terrible sessions?

For example your perfect session is at this perfect balance point. However we consistently hear complaints about the difficulty being too high. This means you are accepting the players having rare but extreme frustrations with the difficulty as a cost of having the more common sessions where they are okay with the difficulty (and you being very pleased with the difficulty). If you decreased that difficulty the terrible sessions around that pain point will decrease and the quality of your great sessions will only decrease slightly. That might be better than your current system.

This same model can be applied to other pain points too. Including your pain points.

Please consider having a structure that minimizes these outbursts rather than having them as an externality of your other sessions. This might be a necessary evil for DMing for your group (including yourself based upon your own self testimony).

How could you restructure the model so that Brian has fewer outbursts, even at the cost of the other game sessions being good rather than perfect? What are Brian's pain points? In what ways have you created situations that touch on those pain points (you can only control your actions so pretend it is your fault)? What compromises can you make so Brian has fewer terrible sessions, even if you have fewer perfect sessions as a cost?

I had a player like Brian once. When I took the time to reflect on these exact questions, I realized that I had some culpability / power to affect a positive change. I ended up decreasing something I valued as a side effect of decreasing the risk of pain points. That improved the game for that group. (which was all the more important because that player had their own IRL struggles) Unfortunately that player's IRL situation deteriorated to the point that I could not adjust the game enough to accommodate their needs. So they left the group rather than have the group be a negative factor in their life.

[Talakeal]

How could you restructure the model so that Brian has fewer outbursts, even at the cost of the other game sessions being good rather than perfect? What are Brian's pain points? In what ways have you created situations that touch on those pain points (you can only control your actions so pretend it is your fault)? What compromises can you make so Brian has fewer terrible sessions, even if you have fewer perfect sessions as a cost?

Basically, he gets mad anytime he cannot easily melee an enemy, either because it flies, swims, or climbs, it ethereal / incorporeal, has high regeneration / damage reduction against physical attacks, or uses hit and run / ambush tactics.

He also gets mad if the monster does something that a player simply can't do, such as the legendary actions in the OP.

And finally, he gets mad if his fellow players use tactics that force enemies to attack him, such in the last game where bob turned incorporeal or several times in earlier sessions where he charged in and everyone else decided to either hang back or retreat leading to him getting his butt kicked.

[GrayDeath]

So he gets mad when his character is insufficiently buffed by your casters to deal with the enemy (a thing that should not happen unless you are ambushed) or when the group leaves him to die.

You dont need anger issues to get angry at those.

And the threat has over a long amount of pages told you how to deal with the "doesnt like assymetry" problem.

So the only thing problematic I see here is "doesnt liek his enemies using smart/fitting tactics".

So, act as the intelligence of the monsters suggests. Few things a melee bruiser SHOULD face directly/Alone are smart enough to use advanced tactics.


And yeah, supporting the "Bobless future" vote here! ^^

[The Glyphstone]

So that's two players in your group who are violently allergic to anything approaching difficulty or challenge?

[Segev]

For Brian, I suggest encouraging him to play a gish of some sort, which has options in his own build to fly, go ethereal, etc. You can help, a little, with magic item handouts. A Broom of Flying will let anybody chase down flying foes (unless the foes are too fast).

[Talakeal]

For Brian, I suggest encouraging him to play a gish of some sort, which has options in his own build to fly, go ethereal, etc. You can help, a little, with magic item handouts. A Broom of Flying will let anybody chase down flying foes (unless the foes are too fast).

He is actually playing an alchemist and could easilly make potions to cover those things.

The problem is that the party is in a "play harder not smarter" feedback loop where he is afraid to make anything but healing potions because of the inevitable butt kicking the party gets as a result of repeatedly charging headlong into combat unprepared.

[Segev]

He is actually playing an alchemist and could easilly make potions to cover those things.

The problem is that the party is in a "play harder not smarter" feedback loop where he is afraid to make anything but healing potions because of the inevitable butt kicking the party gets as a result of repeatedly charging headlong into combat unprepared.

I suggest giving them easier fights, then, for a while. You want "balance" and they want "cakewalks" (according to your perspective), but from their perspective they can't afford to try anything different because they'll die horribly if what they try is even marginally less effective than what they're doing. They're afraid to experiment, so they CAN'T try more optimal strategies.

Bob is a huge contributing factor here; I think the best possibly solution to the problem of Bob "enough talk, have at you!" behavior is for the reputation of the party in the minds of the world to be taht Bob doesn't speak for them. Have the other side of the conflict take down Bob and immediately ask, "Do you want him back? Do you want to fight, too, or can we discuss this like resonable people?"

Bob will whine that he was specifically targeted, yes. Tell him he was specifically targeted because he started the fight and the other side didn't want to fight the whole party if they didn't have to. It will make the rest of the party feel like they are not a speedbump, but a legitimate power in their own right, and it will make Bob's being singled out a consequence of his own choices and actions. If anybody else pulls a Bob, have them treated the same way.

Have planning sessions in-character with NPCs who are sending them on quests. The NPCs have information about the enemy, and give tactical advice. "You'll want a means of flying to deal with the harpies; they sing and use arrows from the air." Things like that.

[Lord of Shadows]

Next year we are going to start a new campaign with someone else as the DM and hopefully some different players.

...and we are going to start looking into bringing in some new players (and perhaps perspective DMs) or joining an existing group once the current campaign is done.

I certainly hope that "we" does not include Bob (don't let it) and you should think long and hard about including "Brian." You also might consider shortening up the current game just to stop the drama and get a break.

Up to you...

[Great Dragon]

I certainly hope that "we" does not include Bob (don't let it) and you should think long and hard about including "Brian." You also might consider shortening up the current game just to stop the drama and get a break.

Up to you...

Agree with no-Bob after. He can cuss at Video Games, or whatever.
Still do your best to be his friend. Sounds like he needs as many as he can get.

Brian..... I'd have a long Talk before the next game starts.
See if you can compromise long before the game starts. Especially if he's going to GM.

[Talakeal]

We had another game.

The game itself more or less went fine; we had no outbursts, just a couple of the usual jabs at me.

First, the party was fighting a group of witch-hunters and one of them used holy water to dispel one of Bob's enchantments (in my system holy water is one of the mundane counters to magic) at which point bob went on a short rant about how literally every NPC has an unlimited supply of holy water, which is ridiculous as, iirc, this is the first time in the entire year long campaign that an NPC has used holy water against them.

Second, Bob had to leave early again, and the rest of the group wanted to spend Bob's share of the treasure on replenishing potions that the party used over the course of the mission and I told them no; that while it might be a reasonable tactical decision, Bob would never agree to it and it is unfair to force him because he wasn't there to stop them. At which point Brian called me "Bob's little toady."


Also, we are having a problem with Brian's dice that may warrant a new thread. He complains that his dice are terrible, and so we did a test of his dice by rolling them a thousand times and recording their results, and while most of the numbers came up right around 5% of the time, 3 came up over 10% of the time and 12 came up less than 2% of the time, which to me indicates a good likelihood that the dice are bad.

After rolling a series of "3"s on several critical rolls, Brian got up and threw his whole set in the garbage and borrowed my dice, but doing so didn't change his luck, and he rarely rolled above a 4 for the entire rest of the session.

I can see why he was in a bad mood about it, and why he wasn't having fun. Is there anything that can be done in a situation like this aside from something that is blatantly unfair to the other players like just giving him a bonus to his rolls?

[The Glyphstone]

Tell him to grow up and act like an adult?

[Great Dragon]

@Talakeal: Brian's dice pool should either be increased to give more options of which to try and roll;
Or, if he has Net access, just let him use an online Dice Roller Site/App, and show you the results each time before you determine any outcomes.

But, yeah. I'm having a slight problem with a Player with a similar problem.
So, don't feel alone, there.

[Mr Beer]

At which point Brian called me "Bob's little toady."

Why do you let people talk to you like that? I'd have told him to go eff himself while giving him a deadeye stare.

[Koo Rehtorb]

Frankly, at this point it's coming off less like you have gaming problems and more like you have people problems.

[zinycor]

Frankly, at this point it's coming off less like you have gaming problems and more like you have people problems.

That's exactly the problem, Bob and Brian don't want to play the game, they don't trust each other, or the rest of the party.

Talakeal, Just leave all these people, why do you continue to play with someone that calls you a toady?

[Elysiume]

It was a few months back but Talakeal said "most people say no gaming is better than bad gaming, but for me it really isn't." There are various layers of friendgroup drama that makes it so kicking Bob out isn't (wasn't?) an option.

While I can see playing in a mediocre game because you really want to play, I'd say the game Talakeal is in rates far, far below mediocre. If I was GMing for a group of players that verbally abused me this much I'd've dropped the campaign after the first session. Bob and Brian sound like entirely toxic people, in or out of the game, and continuing to play with them sounds like it's a continuing detriment to Talakeal's mental health.

I think it's good that Talakeal is planning to take a long break after this campaign ends.

[Talakeal]

I tend to agree with the last few posters.

The game itself is going fine, far above mediocre, its just that The nasty OOC comments around the game that are really starting to drag me down.

So I think it really is more of a people problem at this point.

[Cikomyr]

I tend to agree with the last few posters.

The game itself is going fine, far above mediocre, its just that The nasty OOC comments around the game that are really starting to drag me down.

So I think it really is more of a people problem at this point.

You don't have to endure abuse man.

It's just wrong.

[Great Dragon]

You don't have to endure abuse man.

Agreed.
The fact that now two players in the group are 'attacking' you (Talakeal) and none of the rest are in any way standing up for you - much less defending you - would cause me to just tell the group "You win.", Pack up my stuff, and never return.

IC Drama can be dealt with.
Consitant OoC mean-ness shouldn't be tolerated.

Also, when one of these two people confront you:
Most likely Bob since he is your roommate.
When asked "Why did you end the game?"

I look them right in the eye and say:
"Congratulations, you ruined that game for me."

(But, I tend to be rather Bluntly Honest)

[Segev]

"Yep, I'm also Brian's little toady; I'm not allowing Bob and the others to force you to spend your share of the loot on potions for the whole party, either. By the by, if you'd like to spend one person's share on that, you're free to spend yours."