Arcane Trickster - When to multiclass?

**Lyracian** · 2019-06-01, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)

Salutations Readers,

I was thinking of taking a single level dip with my Arcane Trickster. Either Fighter (fighting style and Shield prof) or Wizard (All the first level spells) but was trying to decide what level to take it at? Every Rogue level seems to have something good until right near the end. Do people think it is worth multi-classing after Level 13 or are the benefits worth slotting it in earlier?

Lyracian.

**Frozenstep** · 2019-06-01, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)

It depends on how long you think your campaign is going to run. You can't afford to wait more then 5~ levels or so if your campaign is only going to reach level 8 or so, or else it'll feel tacked on at the end rather then you being a multi-class from the start.

You also want to consider what you want and why you want it. What spells specifically are you hoping to pick up from wizard? What fighting style from fighter? Are you a melee arcane trickster, and want the shield for bonus AC? Have you considered how you'll cast spells with both hands full (read: warcaster)?

**CTurbo** · 2019-06-01, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)

I wouldn't dip before 5 and 5 is a good time to mutliclass. 7 is too

**sophontteks** · 2019-06-01, 08:12 PM (ISO 8601)

I wouldn't multiclass out. Setting back spell progression, magical ambush, and versatile trickster is too expensive. Maybe after 13 when you get 3rd level spells.

**iTreeby** · 2019-06-01, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)

Magic initiate or ritual caster may be better for you than a one level wizard dip. A single level of fighter doesn't really get you too much unless it's your first level so I wouldn't bother with it.

**Nhorianscum** · 2019-06-02, 08:32 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Lyracian

Salutations Readers,

I was thinking of taking a single level dip with my Arcane Trickster. Either Fighter (fighting style and Shield prof) or Wizard (All the first level spells) but was trying to decide what level to take it at? Every Rogue level seems to have something good until right near the end. Do people think it is worth multi-classing after Level 13 or are the benefits worth slotting it in earlier?

Lyracian.

For only one level of fighter or wizard?

Don't multi. Nothing here is worth it.

**Keravath** · 2019-06-02, 10:23 AM (ISO 8601)

It depends on what your goal is with multiclassing. Rogues get some nice things through most of their progression. However, depending on what you are looking for it can be worthwhile multiclassing.

I have an arcane trickster/warlock multiclass that took 3 levels of warlock early for devils sight+darkness, blade pact and improved pact weapon so that they would have a ranged magical weapon for sneak attacks.

I think the progression was something like rogue ->3, warlock-> 3, rogue->7, warlock->5 (for thirsting blade) and so far rogue->9 .. the warlock levels have (in my case) added to the fun of the character in terms of roleplaying. He has also taken sharpshooter to avoid cover and increase range, however, he can also use the -5/+10 for subsequent attacks after landing the sneak attack if it is worthwhile.

In your case, wizard 1 boosts your spell progression, adds cantrips and give you access to first level rituals. If you happen to be a melee rogue (and an elf/half-elf depending on the DM) then bladsinger wizard offers some decent additional abilities for a melee rogue. Fighter has limited benefits. If you are ranged, the archery fighting style can be useful, however the weapon, shield and armor proficiencies are less useful. Getting the archery fighting style probably isn't worth it unless you want to for role playing/character background reasons. On the other hand, if you are a melee rogue wanting to use a shield and single handed weapon then you could take dueling or defensive fighting styles along with the shield proficiency so it becomes a bit more worthwhile.

If you are planning a dip, I tend to take it either early or late in the character progression. I take it early when the abilities and extra class are part of the defining characteristics of the character. It ties into their backstory. I would also take a dip late if it might provide more utility than the final levels.

One last common multiclass point is after level 5 for martial and pure casters since they receive extra attack and third level spells at this point. Rogue is a bit different since the sneak attack progression is more uniform as are the abilities received so 5th level isn't as much of a huge bump for a rogue as it is for other classes.

**tarlison2k1** · 2019-06-03, 02:55 AM (ISO 8601)

My rule of multiclassing rogue...only one level of the non rogue class

**Lyracian** · 2019-06-03, 06:57 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by iTreeby

Magic initiate or ritual caster may be better for you than a one level wizard dip. A single level of fighter doesn't really get you too much unless it's your first level so I wouldn't bother with it.

I was looking at Ritual Caster and agree I think it is a better way to get some utility spells without a Wizard dip. You also get the advantage of getting higher level rituals such as Water Breathing and Telepathic Bond.

Originally Posted by Keravath

On the other hand, if you are a melee rogue wanting to use a shield and single handed weapon then you could take dueling or defensive fighting styles along with the shield proficiency so it becomes a bit more worthwhile.

That was my thinking +3 AC for melee is quite a big bonus. The only other thought would be Moderately Armored if I started with an odd Dex.

Originally Posted by Keravath

In your case, wizard 1 boosts your spell progression, adds cantrips and give you access to first level rituals. If you happen to be a melee rogue (and an elf/half-elf depending on the DM) then bladsinger wizard offers some decent additional abilities for a melee rogue.

I thought about Divination Wizard but taking a two level dip means giving up level 4 spells (even if they do not come along until level 19). If we were only planning to get to Tier 3 then we kind of have the same with giving up Level 3 spells.

Thank you for the replies everyone. I think Ritual Caster for spells and a possible Fighter dip after Level 13 if I find myself getting hit too much in Melee is the route I will take.

**Willie the Duck** · 2019-06-03, 07:32 AM (ISO 8601)

Honestly, I would take that fighter dip whenever it seemed like you were getting into melee too much. Waiting on some theoretical 'best time' when you are experiencing damage now seems unhelpful. I think the 'Nothing here is worth it' advice is right... in the theoretical space where you are in a perfect party and things always work perfectly to plan. In the messy middle of actual gameplay, however, a rogue can really benefit from +3 AC (or more, if the party happens upon a lot of magic shields, for some reason). Depends on whether you end up finding your rogue using their off-hand weapon a lot or not. I have a friend who is playing a swashbuckler (so designed to be able to 2wf, while still being mobile) who finally switched from paired shortsword to rapier because the 2wf 'simply wasn't coming up enough' (plus we found a magic rapier, so mixed situation).

**nickl_2000** · 2019-06-03, 07:52 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by tarlison2k1

My rule of multiclassing rogue...only one level of the non rogue class

Really? What about a 2 level dip in bladesinger. That is a huge, huge boon for an arcane trickster.

**Ogeeogelthorpe** · 2019-06-03, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Lyracian

Salutations Readers,

I was thinking of taking a single level dip with my Arcane Trickster. Either Fighter (fighting style and Shield prof) or Wizard (All the first level spells) but was trying to decide what level to take it at? Every Rogue level seems to have something good until right near the end. Do people think it is worth multi-classing after Level 13 or are the benefits worth slotting it in earlier?

Lyracian.

My suggestion is to read the following guide.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ckster-s-Guide

Wizard dip for arcane trickster is great because it really ups your utility. You get more spell slots, rituals and can have a few additional control spells. Pair these with magical ambush and you will be a beast. I used an upcasted blindness/deafness while hidden in a T4 adventurers league mod and was able to affect 4 enemies that round and the rest of my party was able to move in and slaughter them during their next turn with advantage on all attacks. If you take wizard to 7 you get 4th level spells with 11th level slots, or wizard to 9 gets you 5th level spells with 11th level caster slots.

A familiar using the help action will make your versatile trickster ability worthless and frees up your bonus action for other things. Spell thief isn't as great as it sounds, especially at the level you get it because you're getting hit by 7th level fireballs, not 3rd level at 17. And what you lose in sneak attack progression (3D6 to 4D6) is very easily made up with the inclusion of an upcasted shadowblade.

If you go with divination you'll have some successes or fails you can force. "That guy I just cast hold person on that has advantage on saving throws? He just rolled a 5."
With war wizard you've got an at-will mini shield as well as +INT to your initiative. That +3 to +5 to your initiative means you're almost always at the top of the order. Now add in alert and you're always there.
Bladesinger dip between 4, 6 or 9 means that you can tank with your AC boosted to 24+ with haste, and even higher with shield. In addition to this you get 2 attacks now! Even more chance to hit with your sneak attack. Pair this with your shadowblade and you absolutely shred the monster.

**Man_Over_Game** · 2019-06-03, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)

First, ask yourself:

Are you a Rogue, or an Arcane Trickster?

The difference is:

The Rogue relies on skills, Sneak Attack, attacking, and mobility.
An Arcane Trickster relies on non-combat utility, and hexing the occasional enemy with a good debuff.

If you take levels into Wizard, you'll cease to continue playing as a Rogue. You'll no longer Sneak Attack, you'll no longer solve most of your problems using skills. You'll cast magic in combat, out of combat, all the time. In this case, you picked Rogue because you wanted to use skills when magic isn't good enough, and you want the versatility that Arcane Trickster provides for you while both in and out of combat.

If you take levels into Fighter, you'll continue to play as a Rogue, and magic will only be used when it's the only possible solution. It'll be used as a last resort, not the first.

The Fighter will provide you with tankiness that you wouldn't have otherwise, so don't consider it unless you plan on using that tankiness.

Also keep in mind that Sneak Attack will become worse the better at casting magic you are. So if you do start to dip into Wizard, do it as early on as possible. Fighter is less restrictive, because it's gained with the intent that you'll already be attacking. At almost every point in a pure Arcane Trickster's career, his staple will be his attack, and so Fighter levels can be introduced at any time, of any varying level of investment.

**JellyPooga** · 2019-06-03, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)

Rogue (of any kind) is one of those Classes that, simply put, the more of it you have the better. Whether you're a Rogue looking to multiclass out or another Class looking to multiclass Rogue, it's always hard to justify not taking more Rogue. When to multiclass Arcane Trickster specifically? Basically never. IF the game you're playing is low-tier, then the additional Sneak Attack you get every other level outweighs the minor boons you'll get from either Fighter or Wizard. IF the game is mid-tier, then (base) Rogue is starting to ramp up it's game with the likes of Evasion and Arcane Trickster is looking at picking up the indomitable Magical Ambush; i.e. features you don't want to be delaying. If the game is high tier, then I'm just going to mention Stroke of Luck. IF you want more incentive; Elusive. Who wouldn't want those compared to a measly few proficiencies, cantrips or rituals (any of which you could pick up through feats anyway)?

Seriously. If you're thinking of dip-multiclassing out of Rogue (and specifically Arcane Trickster), you need to evaluate whether you want to play an Arcane Trickster in the first place. Would you be happier playing an Eldritch Knight, Bladesinger or Ranger instead, picking up some roguish tricks with Feats and Backgrounds? OR do you want to play an AT, picking up your non-Rogue tricks with Feats and Backgrounds? Either that or invest heavily into the multiclass; 5 levels of your secondary Class, or a 10/10 split (or similar...e.g. Fighter/Rogue 8/12 is very solid) is almost always going to be better than a 1 level dip.

**Keravath** · 2019-06-03, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game

First, ask yourself:

Are you a Rogue, or an Arcane Trickster?

The difference is:

The Rogue relies on skills, Sneak Attack, attacking, and mobility.
An Arcane Trickster relies on non-combat utility, and hexing the occasional enemy with a good debuff.

If you take levels into Wizard, you'll cease to continue playing as a Rogue. You'll no longer Sneak Attack, you'll no longer solve most of your problems using skills. You'll cast magic in combat, out of combat, all the time.

If you take levels into Fighter, you'll continue to play as a Rogue, and magic will only be used when it's the only possible solution. It'll be used as a last resort, not the first.

The Fighter will provide you with tankiness that you wouldn't have otherwise, so don't consider it unless you plan on using that tankiness.

Also keep in mind that Sneak Attack will become worse the better at casting magic you are. So if you do start to dip into Wizard, do it as early on as possible. Fighter is less restrictive, because it's gained with the intent that you'll already be attacking. At almost every point in a pure Arcane Trickster's career, his staple will be his attack, and so Fighter levels can be introduced at any time, of any varying level of investment.

I'd have to disagree with these comments.

An Arcane Trickster is first and foremost a rogue like any other. They just draw from a different bag of tricks and abilities. An Arcane Trickster with a level of wizard is a rogue with a few more magic tricks but can be played like any other rogue. An arcane trickster with a fighter level or two is also always a rogue but might be a bit more durable.

An Arcane trickster with 6 levels of blade singer is a relative magical powerhouse compared to a straight arcane trickster but has an AC more comparable to the fighter and has extra attack. One with 5 levels of fighter also has extra attack and some additional combat abilities (e.g. battlemaster) and action surge. Both are still rogues and likely still very effective ones. One focusing more on the martial aspect and the other on the magical aspect.

Finally, sneak attack never gets "worse" unless you think spells are strictly better than all martial attacks. There will be times when it might be better to cast a spell, but others when up-casting shadow blade and wading into melee might be both more effective and more fun :)

**Man_Over_Game** · 2019-06-03, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Keravath

Finally, sneak attack never gets "worse" unless you think spells are strictly better than all martial attacks. There will be times when it might be better to cast a spell, but others when up-casting shadow blade and wading into melee might be both more effective and more fun :)

My intent wasn't that sneak attack loses value, but that magic starts to gain in value, to the point where it surpasses Sneak Attack. For example, if you have the choice of casting Fireball, an enhanced Hold Person, or a 4d6 Sneak Attack, which one has priority? The Sneak Attack seems like it'd be the lowest one on the totem pole.

A Rogue/Mage can choose to be a Rogue OR be a Mage, but a Fighter/Rogue does not have to choose. At no point does the Fighter/Rogue forfeit his ability to use his Rogue features to use his Fighter features. They work in tandem. An Arcane Trickster/Mage has more options than an AT/Fighter, but it becomes harder to use your features in tandem as you gain in levels. Shadowblade might be one solution, sure, but that gets in the way of your other Concentration spells, as well as creating competition for your Bonus Action. You'd be better being an Eldritch Knight with Shadowblade than you would as an AT/Mage multiclass.

It's akin to the difference of Druid/Cleric vs. Paladin/Sorcerer. The Druid/Cleric is a better caster, and has more options, but has a lack of synergies between those options. Despite doing a lot of cool things, it's hard to use those two halves together in the same turn or Action. One turn, you act as a level 5 Cleric, and the other turn you act as a level 5 Druid. A Paladin/Sorcerer has no such qualms, and gains options while also being able to use those options together (like with using spell slots for attacks, or quickening cantrips). You always act as a level 5 Paladin and a level 5 Sorcerer, effectively playing a level 10 character all of the time.

**Ogeeogelthorpe** · 2019-06-03, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game

My intent wasn't that sneak attack loses value, but that magic starts to gain in value, to the point where it surpasses Sneak Attack. For example, if you have the choice of casting Fireball, an enhanced Hold Person, or a 4d6 Sneak Attack, which one has priority? The Sneak Attack seems like it'd be the lowest one on the totem pole.

A Rogue/Mage can choose to be a Rogue OR be a Mage, but a Fighter/Rogue does not have to choose. At no point does the Fighter/Rogue forfeit his ability to use his Rogue features to use his Fighter features. They work in tandem. An Arcane Trickster/Mage has more options than an AT/Fighter, but it becomes harder to use your features in tandem as you gain in levels. Shadowblade might be one solution, sure, but that gets in the way of your other Concentration spells, as well as creating competition for your Bonus Action. You'd be better being an Eldritch Knight with Shadowblade than you would as an AT/Mage multiclass.

It's akin to the difference of Druid/Cleric vs. Paladin/Sorcerer. The Druid/Cleric is a better caster, and has more options, but has a lack of synergies between those options. Despite doing a lot of cool things, it's hard to use those two halves together in the same turn or Action One turn, you act as a level 5 Cleric, and the other turn you act as a level 5 Druid. A Paladin/Sorcerer has no such qualms, and gains options while also being able to use those options together (like with using spell slots for attacks, or quickening cantrips). You always act as a level 5 Paladin and a level 5 Sorcerer, effectively playing a level 10 character all of the time.

I think you may be completely misinterpreting the rogue class. You don't lose your skill monkey abilities by multiclassing. Rogue/Wizard synergizes incredibly well and I have no idea why you think you have to choose only casting, and only attacking. The comparison of druid/cleric multiclass is apples to oranges because it's 2 full casters with competing spell lists. Paladin/Sorceror or Paladin/warlock is more apt, but still functions in a completely different way. If all you're worried about is losing 3-4D6 sneak attack then you really don't understand that a rogue can do a whole hell of a lot more.

Arcane tricksters do more than just attack. They can control an encounter with magical ambush. This paired additional wizard spells can increase the overall effectiveness of the spell. AND they can attack. Very effectively.

Imposing disadvantage or removing advantage from a save and casting a DC17 to DC19 spell such as synaptic static makes it almost certain that the targets get hit for 8D6 psychic and it imposes a D6 penalty to their attack rolls and constitution saving throws for a minimum of a turn. A base arcane trickster would simply not be able to do this without the assistance of a magic item. A base wizard will hit but without the disadvantage on the spell save there's a higher chance it's only half damage.
The bonus action hide/action cast spell is very roguish and quintessential arcane trickster.

As stated before, a war wizard gives a boost to your initiative based on your INT score. That base initiative score of 5 is now a 9 or 10 at high levels to ensure you go first and can drop hypnotic pattern on that army of yetis. Using their arcane deflection and boosting saving throws to turn that failed dex save into a success means you take zero damage. This is again roguish.

Ritual casting a familiar such as a flying snake or an owl can give you constant advantage on your attacks, which you can magically boost, such as shadowblade and booming blade/green flame blade. This is again at the core of your roguish abilities.

And when it comes to attacking? Guess what! You can bonus action a 5th level shadowblade, swing it with booming blade and voila! 7D8 + 6D6 +5(dex) psychic damage! Now factor in you've got a familiar for advantage. Then consider the fact that you may have just used a 6th level spell slot for absorb elements after that red wizard blasted you with cone of cold, and you get to return an additional 6D6 cold damage on that melee attack. That big single blast is also pretty damn roguish.

By multiclassing wizard you aren't nerfing your rogue abilities. You're expanding your tool kit. You will have any tool that the job needs and you can look at your group's setup and determine if you'll need to focus more on front line attacking, long range attacks, control and blast spells, or skill monkey shenanigans. That's the beauty of arcane trickster/wizard; You can be just about anything to your group and you can do it very well if you play smart.

**sophontteks** · 2019-06-03, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)

The big problem here is that magical ambush is a 9th level ability, and 3rd level spells come at 13th level. Multiclassing set those back, which is nerfing those abilities. A rogue 8 wizard 1 can't use magical ambush. You'll get it eventually, but eventually could be after the campaign ends if your not careful.

**Skylivedk** · 2019-06-03, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)

Two levels of Bladesinger/Diviner or three levels of fighter are both very very good. YMMV, I tend to find everything after Reliable Talent so so. If you go five levels Bladesinger after your magical ambush, you'll delay when you know third level shield with 1 level. On the bright side, you'll have a ton more spells, slots and you'll be extremely close to extra attack (1 level) and have either great roll control or better SR buffs. If you go Diviner, you also, IMO, slightly offset the hurt felt by not having reliable talent.

**Lyracian** · 2019-06-04, 08:00 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game

First, ask yourself:
If you take levels into Wizard, you'll cease to continue playing as a Rogue. You'll no longer Sneak Attack, you'll no longer solve most of your problems using skills. You'll cast magic in combat, out of combat, all the time. In this case, you picked Rogue because you wanted to use skills when magic isn't good enough, and you want the versatility that Arcane Trickster provides for you while both in and out of combat.

My other characters are Bards and Wizards so much more interested in playing as a Rogue and being the skill monkey.

Originally Posted by Ogeeogelthorpe

My suggestion is to read the following guide.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...ckster-s-Guide

Had already seen it but thank you; always nice to see a good guide.

Originally Posted by sophontteks

The big problem here is that magical ambush is a 9th level ability, and 3rd level spells come at 13th level. Multiclassing set those back, which is nerfing those abilities. A rogue 8 wizard 1 can't use magical ambush. You'll get it eventually, but eventually could be after the campaign ends if your not careful.

Planning to go to 20 but you never know with games.

Originally Posted by Willie the Duck

Honestly, I would take that fighter dip whenever it seemed like you were getting into melee too much. Waiting on some theoretical 'best time' when you are experiencing damage now seems unhelpful. I think the 'Nothing here is worth it' advice is right... in the theoretical space where you are in a perfect party and things always work perfectly to plan. In the messy middle of actual gameplay, however, a rogue can really benefit from +3 AC (or more, if the party happens upon a lot of magic shields, for some reason). Depends on whether you end up finding your rogue using their off-hand weapon a lot or not.

Well it is all theoretical until we are actually playing the game. Mainly played casters in 5th Ed so far so not sure how much melee/ranged or off-weapon attacks I will be making yet. Shield is no use if I am two-weapon-fighting or mainly an Archer. We have a pair of BDF's already in the party so will see how it plays out.

**Willie the Duck** · 2019-06-04, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Lyracian

Shield is no use if I am two-weapon-fighting or mainly an Archer.

So, in other words, exactly the same stuff as I mentioned in the sentence you cut off? Yes. But good either way, you want to wait and see, which is what I suggested. Just, y'know, don't wait until some forum-decided 'right time' to dip out of rogue if you find yourself consistently getting chewed up in melee and don't end up using 2wf. The right time to dip into something to gain the benefits is the level at which it makes a difference in surviving to reach higher levels.

Good luck!

**Lyracian** · 2019-06-04, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Willie the Duck

So, in other words, exactly the same stuff as I mentioned in the sentence you cut off?

I decided the last sentence I left covered it enoughas the rest was just a story about the same. Playing casters has been easy as I never make weapon attacks. Now it is time to try some of the other classes out.

**Corran** · 2019-06-04, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Skylivedk

or three levels of fighter

It's hard to stop at fighter 3 though when extra attack is 2 levels away.

**Skylivedk** · 2019-06-04, 02:23 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Corran

It's hard to stop at fighter 3 though when extra attack is 2 levels away.

I'm not twisting your arm either :p i really like the different Iron Scoundrel builds and one of them is based on Arcane Trickster + Battlemaster. Bit of James Bond type.

To be fair, it's probably one of the trickier versions to play since you have so many options both in and out of combat. Between manoeuvres, spells and rogue features, you have competition for all parts of your action economy and a possibility space including everything from tank to dpr to control.

Bear in mind that the extra attack is worth a lot less if you play with SCAG.

**Corran** · 2019-06-04, 02:41 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Skylivedk

I'm not twisting your arm either :p i really like the different Iron Scoundrel builds and one of them is based on Arcane Trickster + Battlemaster. Bit of James Bond type.

If you've got a link handy I'd like to give it a look. Cause that's a build I am interested in playing at some point too.

**Skylivedk** · 2019-06-04, 05:18 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Corran

If you've got a link handy I'd like to give it a look. Cause that's a build I am interested in playing at some point too.

I don't usually save builds because I tend to enjoy the tweaking and a slightly awkward overload of options. That being said, I think you'll find most of the points here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...iron+Scoundrel

Basis:
AT X
FTR 3 or 5 or 6
Optional third class (usually barb/Warlock/Wiz/Sorc).

The combination of Arcane Trickster + Fighter and Warcaster + Sentinel (+Mirror Image) allows you a very very respectable amount of damage output.

Mirror Image + Sentinel can provide you Sneak Attack out of turn.
So can Riposte and Readied Action (either from Haste or Action Surge)
Warcaster allows Booming Blade + Sneak Attack + Attack of Opportunity to really punish fools

**malachi** · 2019-06-05, 10:13 AM (ISO 8601)

My level 5 AT just leveled up, so I'm dipping 2 levels of Wizard for Bladesinger to get something to actually use my 1st level slots on (it appears the real-life me, as opposed to my character, is not talented at making good use of disguise self and minor image), extra survivability from shield and bladesong (since I've gone down to 0 frequently), and low-level wizard rituals (since our wizard died).

Given that I tend to get multiattacked by multiple enemies and have only 1 or 2 fights / long rest, the shield spell is typically better for me than uncanny dodge - and the few times where it won't be, I'll still have that as an option.

**Klorox** · 2019-06-11, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)

I’m currently playing an eladrin arcane trickster and I’m considering multiclassing at some point.

This is the first time I’m playing a rogue so I’m learning a lot about the class. He’s typically being used as an archer right now (but I do have a rapier and booming blade should the situation arise).

One thing I’ve really noticed is, especially with a familiar, it’s pretty easy to gain advantage and get sneak attack damage in there. I do a ton of damage when I hit.

One worry of mine is missing in combat. With only one attack per round, a lot is riding on that single attack roll. A level of fighter for +2 to hit with ranged attacks sounds really nice. When I start to look at one level of fighter, I start considering a second level for action surge (if I *do* miss, it’s another chance for me to land sneak attack damage). And when I see how much damage my sneak attack does, especially on a critical hit, the champion archetype looks really nice (I will choose elven accuracy at level 4, so three rolls gives me a decent chance at rolling a 19 or 20).

I also support my party with a lot of skills. I have a lot of utility. I’m tempted to take a level of wizard for the rituals and increasing that utility aspect of this character. When I look at one level of wizard, a second level sounds awesome (I’d either choose bladesinger, diviner, or war wizard) for the added abilities.

All this being said, I realize every level that I multiclass, I take away a little bit of sneak attack damage, I take away from ASI’s, and the higher level rogue abilities look fun.

It’s a tough situation to be in.

I am pretty sure I’m going to stick straight rogue, at least until I get my DEX to 20, before considering anything else. I have time.

**djreynolds** · 2019-06-11, 10:16 PM (ISO 8601)

A rogue gets feats at 4th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 16th, 19th

Its a long time to wait between feats for something you want now

Its even longer if you are stuck on getting your dexterity to 20.

Taking ritual caster at 10th level... its pointless IMO, not because it isn't still useful... its because you may never get a chance to really use it. You'll get to use it 10 times and then you're off to a new adventure and new character.

My opinion is take stuff now.

Also what are stats? Did you dump everything else? I always recommend a little wisdom

Also, for a non-multiclassing rogue, moderately armored is actually an awesome feat... but when do you take it, at 4th or 8th or 10th.... you may never make it to those levels alive.

If you feel right now a level of fighter would be awesome, than take it. But remember you are an arcane trickster and you cast spells... that means storing a weapon to cast some spells or taking war caster at some point... not worth it.

Fighting style, say archery..... unless you are using and abusing sharpshooter... no someone should cast bless on you

And you do not need medium armor. Breastplate is AC 16... no matter how high your dexterity is.

So this leaves you with wizard, the best dip. Cast mage armor once a day, +3 AC unless you have +1 studded leather.

This leaves me with another dip, one that I think is actually very good, cleric. Snag that bless spell, and get some decent ritual spells as well. You'll get armor/shield and some healing as well.

If there was a point to multiclass, for most it is 5th level. Extra attack, 3rd level spells and in your case uncanny dodge.

I'm also a big believer in taking feats ASAP, so you can use them. We have this big plan for our characters, and we are left waiting on leveling up and maxing out stats. Take your feats now.

And most of all, good luck

**Lyracian** · 2019-06-12, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)