Cmd to undead minion: destroy yourself

[Dalebert]

EDITED to "destroy yourself" in response to semantics arguments.

How fast can it do it? Would you say it has to start making attack roles on its ac? Would it get advantage? Would it auto-crit? Would you just say it can stab/slash some vital area in just one action and auto-succeed?

[JackPhoenix]

In combat? It'll start causing damage to itself, using whatever means at its disposal.

Outside combat? It'll destroy itself, using whatever means at its disposal, no rolls necessary.

[The Library DM]

The undead minion stares at you for a second, and then says, “But I am already dead.”



Might wanna reword that command!

[Xihirli]

Does it have vital areas?

[Keravath]

The undead minion stares at you for a second, and then says, “But I am already dead.”



Might wanna reword that command!

I'd have to agree with this one. The command simply wouldn't work since it is already dead.

[johnbragg]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0830.html

"Last one left, set yourself on fire in the fireplace"

[MaxWilson]

How fast can it do it? Would you say it has to start making attack roles on its ac? Would it get advantage? Would it auto-crit? Would you just say it can stab/slash some vital area in just one action and auto-succeed?

Personally, I'd say you can voluntarily treat yourself like a paralyzed target, which in my game means the target's effective Dex is 1 (so there's an AC penalty if not in heavy armor) and you get advantage and auto-crits. If you tell a vampire spawn to "destroy yourself", you're looking at an average of 1.68 crits per round for an average damage of 21.84 per round, of which 10 HP gets cancelled by regeneration, so it would take about seven rounds for it to destroy itself.

But if you're thinking about Command Undead: you don't want to command your current minion to destroy itself anyway, because your capture attempt of the next guy might fail. At most you want to command your current minion to disable itself, which can be done in one round. E.g. "Here, throw this net on yourself!" A Vampire Spawn can do that to itself in one round with 84% probability, and once you've got your shiny new minion you and the rest of the party will have an easy time destroying the now-restrained-and-hostile Vampire Spawn.

[Dalebert]

But if you're thinking about Command Undead: you don't want to command your current minion to destroy itself anyway, because your capture attempt of the next guy might fail. At most you want to command your current minion to disable itself, which can be done in one round.

If it could kill... Sorry, destroy itself in one round, i may as well just pick that because I'm going to lose control of it forever anyway as soon as I even attempt to control another--succeed or fail. A net is really easy to escape though so I'm not thrilled with that suggestion and can't think of a reliable means that's fast and self-induced. Manacles are better but still not super reliable.

[MaxWilson]

If it could kill... Sorry, destroy itself in one round, i may as well just pick that because I'm going to lose control of it forever anyway as soon as I even attempt to control another--succeed or fail. A net is really easy to escape though so I'm not thrilled with that suggestion and can't think of a reliable means that's fast and self-induced. Manacles are better but still not super reliable.

Not necessarily forever.

Starting at 14th level, as an action, you can choose one undead that you can see within 60 feet of you. That creature must make a Charisma saving throw against your wizard spell save DC. If it succeeds, you can't use this feature on it again. If it fails, it becomes friendly to you and obeys your commands until you use this feature again.

If the target has an Intelligence of 8 or higher, it has advantage on the saving throw. If it fails the saving throw and has an Intelligence of 12 or higher, it can repeat the saving throw at the end of every hour until it succeeds and breaks free.

If you attempt to control a Mummy Lord, you lose control of your Vampire Spawn and gain a Mummy Lord... but if the Mummy Lord succeeds, you now have two hostile monsters:

(1) A Mummy Lord that is immune to your Command Undead attempts, and
(2) A Vampire Spawn that isn't.

Might as well recapture the Vampire Spawn, no? And it's more convenient if the Vampire Spawn has restrained itself in a net (or manacles). If you don't like the restraining idea, then at least have it Dash away, so that it would have to spend another round Dashing back before it could attack you. Either one though is better than having no minion at all.

[Dalebert]

I see what you're saying now. The vampire spawn has yet to succeed in a save so is not immune. Missed that. In my mind I had simplified this to "can only ever be used once on an undead".

[MaxWilson]

Oh BTW, if you have to settle for a lesser undead, a Wraith wouldn't be terrible. It can create and control up to seven Specters, and all of them can pass through walls for scouting or even end their turns inside of the ground (at a small cost in HP) to make keep them alive in tough fights. Wraith + seven Specters can potentially do about 90 HP of damage in a turn against a low-AC target.

Obviously Mummy Lord is much better--it can do around 130 HP of damage in a round all by itself, at a much better to-hit and with Dreadful Glare on top of that--but Wraith isn't bad for CR 5.

[Dalebert]

Honestly less concerned with sheer dps and more interested in general utility. Having a personal body guard who can make enemies miserable if they dare to close with me seems nice. Also, a big fan of quality over quantity. The latter gets tedious for the other players, the DM, and even me. It not a mummy lord, then a bone claw would make a great personal body guard--grab someone and teleport away.