Battlebots Season 4

[tomandtish]

Battlebots is back for an all new season. There's been a few changes:

So far both episodes have been two hours each, with 7 matches an episode. There are 67 bots competing from 9 countries.

They’ve changed the scoring. Strategy is gone. It is now 7 points: 3 for damage, 2 for control, and 2 for aggression.

Build rules can be found here. Tournament rules are here. Description of all bots is here.

Anyway, here are the matches for Episode one:

Spoiler: Sawblaze v. Rotator

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Rotator is already going in with a disadvantage, as it broke a blade during testing and apparently didn’t have a replacement ready? Seems like poor strategy. Sawblaze is one of those bots that gets a lot more weapon praise than it deserves. The commentators love screaming about the sparks, but Sawblaze won their matches last year through driving, not weapon damage (which was all cosmetic). And this fight is no different. Sawblaze pushes Rotator around, flips them over (Rotator drives upside down) but does no real damage. There’s one good shot of Rotator and it is obvious the cuts are all cosmetic. It goes to the judges and Sawblaze’s driving is enough to get them the victory since Rotator never got anything going.

Spoiler: Subzero v. Cobalt

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Cobalt is new to this incarnation of Battlebots, and their spinner looks interesting (an on-top vertical spinner). Subzero had constant problems not working properly last season and we will see if the flipper bot has fixed them. As the fight starts, Cobalt’s wedge is low enough to cause Subzero to rise up into the spinner, and carnage ensues. Sub has lost a wheel in the first 20 seconds, knocks some more pieces off, and Sub stops moving and is counted out. A solid and impressive victory. Cobalt looks like a serious contender.

Spoiler: Ribbot v. Kraken

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Kraken has those piercing teeth (and a minibot) and looks more like a snakehead. Ribbot… is a frog. No seriously, it has green foam on the outside that is frog-shaped. Oh, it also has a small vertical spinner. As the fight starts Kraken quickly grabs Ribbot and carries them into a pulverizer. But Ribbot responds with a solid hit that bends a tooth. Unfortunately, only one tooth as Kraken gets a sold grip and actually punches a tooth into the main body of Ribbot. It hauls Ribbot around some more, and a frog leg comes off.. There’s some more banging, and pushing, then a pulverizer hit at the buzzer…. And flame well after the buzzer but no one says anything. Kraken easily gets the decision.

Spoiler: Deathroll v. Endgame

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Endgame has had reliability issues in the past, and has added a self-righting mechanism to compliment their vertical spinner. Deathrool looks like a gator, and also has a vertical spinner. Seems like it will come to who hits first and hardest. And that looks like it might be Endgame. It hits Deathrool and Deathroll goes flying, then flys some more when their spinner hits the ground. Endgame then begins pounding Deathroll. There’s one hit so hard that a light on the ceiling is broken by shrapnel. The hits keep on coming… and Endgame knocks itself upside down. The self-right doesn’t work and Endgame is counted out. There’s a lot of power in those weapons and sometimes you can send yourself flying as well. Endgame obviously needs to work on the self-righter.

Spoiler: Valkyre v. Hypershock

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Valkyrie had an excellent rookie season last year, and people have high expectations. Hypershock had a LOT of reliability issues last season, and will have to have fixed those to do well. Hypershock comes out very quickly and knocks Valkyrie into the screws before it can spin up. A second hit and Valkyrie is on the ropes, but manages to get off the screws. Hypershock pushes Valkyrie around and into a corner, where Hypershock takes a hit. And a second when it goes back in. Hypershock gets stuck between the wall and Valkyrie and takes more hits. It has lost a wheel also begins smoking. But Valkyries has stopped moving. Valkyrie gets counted out. Hypershock is driving well, but the smoking shows that they still have reliability issues to work out.

Spoiler: Blacksmith v. Quantum

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Blacksmith is another bot that gets more praise than it seems to deserve. In the past three seasons it only won two matches, and I believe one was against Chomp. The hammer has just never seem effective. Quantum has a spike that it hopes to grip and pierce with. The fight begins… And Quantum quickly grabs Blacksmith and punches into the armor. It picks Blacksmith up and hauls it around the ring, almost getting it on the screws. It does seem like a long hold and Blacksmith driver complains. They break and Quantum begins pushing Blacksmith around again then gets another bite and spins Blacksmith around…. And can’t break the hold. They have to stop the fight. Blacksmith is on fire inside and they call the fight. Judges give it to Quantum.

Blacksmith performed about how I suspected (poorly). But Quantum may actually be too powerful. The rules do say you have to be able to release, and they don’t seem able to when they get a good grip. Will be curious to see what happens in the future. In the pits team Quantum comment that they got stuck because of extra armor Blacksmith put on, so they feel the sticking was Blacksmith’s fault.

Spoiler: Tombstone v. Lockjaw

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A champions matchup. Season 2 winner versus Season 3 winner. Tombstone is definitely deadlier, but Donald Hudson is the better driver (and has beaten Tombstone in previous incarnations of the show). This is definitely the boxer versus the brawler. Let’s see who wins… Biteforce comes out aggressive and uses their shield to send Tombstone flying. There are 2-3 hits like that, which is definitely how he has to play it…. And then Ray Billings shows he can drive as well with a nice side pivot that takes out both right tires on Lockjaw. Lockjaw is counted out in under a minute.

Episode 2 matches:

Spoiler: Huge v. Son of Whyachi (SOW)

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Huge has redesigned the wheels to make them tougher. SOW has made no real changes. Will be interesting to see which spinner is better… And it’s SOW. Huge never really gets up to speed. SOW knocks it around, then knocks off a large chunk of one wheel. Huge is counted out. Huge definitely needs to rethink the wheels.

Spoiler: Texas Twister (TT) v. Black Dragon (BD)

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TT is a horizontal spinner that hasn’t competed in a while. Black Dragon uses a vertical spinner. The fight starts and they maneuver for a few seconds then come together in a big crash. BD hits them again then starts smoking. Their spinner stops AND they are on fire (from their flamethrower) but still running. They continue banging into each other, then TT begins smoking (batteries?) and their spinner stops as well. It’s now a pushing match (and there’s enough smoke in the cage that it is hard to see at times). BD seems to have taken more damage but I would say is winning the driving and aggression points. It goes to the judges and a split decision, but the win goes to Texas Twister, which is not how I would have called it (and the commentators seem to agree with me).

Spoiler: Duck v. Bombshell

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Duck is the tough little bot that could. Sheer solid muscle that pushes you around and wears you out. There’s a feeling of grudge, since a lot of people felt Duck should have won the rumble last year instead of Bombshell. Bombshell is modular and going with the vertical spinner. The fight begins…. And is over about as quickly. Duck pushes Bombshell around the ring then knocks them over. Bombshell is unable to right and is counted out. Maybe 40 seconds altogether. Duck clearly shows that the rumble was a fluke.

Spoiler: Shatter v. Witchdoctor (WD)

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Shatter is a hammer/spike bot like Chomp and Blacksmith, with a unique wheel system that will allegedly allow better control. They also have ablative armor. WD is a fan favorite that never quite seems to live up to expectations. They also have had consistent reliability issues. The fight begins… and WD begins running into Shatter, knocking off the armor. There’s some chasing back and forth, with WD knocking off more armor, then getting the hammer head as well. Shatter is now weaponless. But WD begins smoking and apparently catches fire. They also seem to have power issues and the spinner has stopped. WD then stops moving, but gets again. It goes to the judges and WD gets it. WD clearly still has reliability issues and needs to work those out or they won’t last long.

Spoiler: Axe Backward (AB) v. Mammoth

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AB is an interesting full body spinner design. Mammoth is HUGE. It literally doesn’t fit in the square, While it has a spinner, it is really more of a lifter. They also have no armor as such since it is more of a frame. Definitely an interesting design. The fight begins… And Mammoth does a good job of keeping AB in front of it. AB also doesn’t seem to be spinning (reliability was a problem last year). Mammoth gets AB in the screws, then gets them behind the screws. AB is counted out. Mammoth lost a wheel, but it appears to have fallen off on its own. Mammoth is an interesting design and I’ll be curious to see where it goes.

Have to wonder if Mammoth got an exception. From Section 1 part d of build rules: "There is no maximum size limit; however, your bot (or combination of bots) must be able to
start the match from completely within the space of an 8’ x 8’ square".

Spoiler: Captain Shredderator (CS) v. Wan Hoo (WH)

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CS is a full body spinner that has a history of reliability issues. Wan Hu is a vertical spinner from China and apparently has done well there. The fight starts… And WH seems to have maneuvering issues right off the start. Not moving well at all, and after a few hits from CS it also starts smoking. There’s speculation that the wedge may be dragging. It’s still moving however, although their spinner isn’t working. But after another hit CS stops moving (although still spinning). CS is counted out. Another match where the dominant bot is counted out suddenly because of reliability issues. This has been a theme for CS.

Spoiler: Minotaur v. Whiplash

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Both were final four bots last season, and both have excellent drivers. Minotaur has that horrifying drum spinner that they have apparently upgraded. Whiplash has a wedge, lifter, and vertical spinner. The fight begins… And it is quickly apparent that whatever Minotaur did to their spinner isn’t working since it seems to have trouble getting up to speed. Meanwhile Whiplash is doing a good job of chasing/pushing Minotaur around. There’s been no solid hit for a bit, but Whiplash is winning the driving war, flipping Minotaur. But Minotaur’s drum never gets up to speed. They chase for a while and then Whiplash starts smoking. Their spinner has also stopped. But it’s going to go to the judges… and Whiplash wins it. That’s the right call since Minotaur never really got going.

[Arcane_Secrets]

Huge needs some serious redesigning from scratch because right now it looks like Chomp and that's not a compliment. Perhaps if it had solid metal wheels and was redesigned as a scooper it'd be a lot more effective, because it has the size to be able to knock a lot of other bots out of the ring, but its weapon basically can't hit anything and the fact that the body of the bot is so thin means that its liable to being bisected like last season.

[Traab]

Man, sounds like a lot of bots are having issues with handling either taking hits, or even dishing them out without breaking. Tombstone is the bot I both love and hate. I love him because its always fun to see a robot get torn to shreds, and thats what he does. But I dislike just how dominant he tends to be. Its like, the only way he loses is when he damages himself or has some other performance issue.

[MikelaC1]

My fav is Bronco, tossing bots all over the ring...and even out of the ring. Dont like Tombstone at all.

[Traab]

My fav is Bronco, tossing bots all over the ring...and even out of the ring. Dont like Tombstone at all.

Bronco is awesome, its all about the spectacle. Tombstone is fun because he is ivan drago. "Whatever he hits, he destroys!" Bronco is fun because you never know how the flip will go. Some guys go flying, others get toppled, sometimes its hilarious destruction, other times its like flipping a pancake, no effect whatsoever. Didnt tombstone rip off all his wheels in one of their fights? I seem to recall one side being spinning rims and axles only.

[Arcane_Secrets]

Bronco is awesome, its all about the spectacle. Tombstone is fun because he is ivan drago. "Whatever he hits, he destroys!" Bronco is fun because you never know how the flip will go. Some guys go flying, others get toppled, sometimes its hilarious destruction, other times its like flipping a pancake, no effect whatsoever. Didnt tombstone rip off all his wheels in one of their fights? I seem to recall one side being spinning rims and axles only.

That was Minotaur in his first fight against Bronco ever.

[Traab]

That was Minotaur in his first fight against Bronco ever.

Ah minotaur, I loved that guy. That drum was MURDER on opponents. I loved his fight against blacksmith, it was a surprisingly close fight till his drum managed to catch a bit of his ramp which bent it and made it vulnerable, after that he just tore further and further into blacksmith until FWOOM! Fire. It was actually a bit of reversal because the early seconds blacksmith was doing a REALLY good job of maneuvering so mino couldnt land a hit while driving him all over the place. But that little contact off an unlucky bounce started his doom.

[Arcane_Secrets]

Ah minotaur, I loved that guy. That drum was MURDER on opponents. I loved his fight against blacksmith, it was a surprisingly close fight till his drum managed to catch a bit of his ramp which bent it and made it vulnerable, after that he just tore further and further into blacksmith until FWOOM! Fire. It was actually a bit of reversal because the early seconds blacksmith was doing a REALLY good job of maneuvering so mino couldnt land a hit while driving him all over the place. But that little contact off an unlucky bounce started his doom.

Minotaur's easily my favorite. There are other bots with better win-loss records (especially since they haven't gotten the Giant Nut yet and they have to beat Tombstone to do it). But there are few bots that I enjoy watching more because MInotaur's wins are usually very dramatic, although it typically takes a match or two to get up to speed. Pun utterly intended.

Spoiler

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It's also a good thing that the audience was protected by those shatterproof plastic pieces last night. Otherwise they might've had to feel the agony of debeak.

[tomandtish]

Sorry for being gone so long. RL ( a work conference and then my wife being in the hospital) got in the way.

Not going to comment on every fight. More general comments on the last two weeks:

Biteforce

Spoiler

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continues to show it is a dominant bot, running all over Yeti.

Copperhead

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is a newer bot, but can't hold up to Skprpios, and is knocked out.

Cobalt

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has a devastating spinner design, and sent DUCK into the air about 10 times, as well as ripping the beak (and entire wedge) off of DUCK. But DUCK proves how tough it is, as Cobalt ends up stuck on the floor and gets counted out. DUCK is definitely the lead bot in terms of sheer toughness. Some of those hits threw it 7-8 feet into the air.

Blacksmith

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is still a design i don't like. It finally gets a win over Kraken, and even that is on a split decision, which it probably won for aggressiveness. Kraken is not the best of the grapple bots either.

Ribbot

Spoiler

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Actually pulls out a solid win against End Game, going weapon to weapon and coming out on top. I may have to reconsider my earlier summary of their ability.

Sawblaze

Spoiler

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is another bot that I like, but is overrated. The weapon gets way too much attention and has done no appreciable damage. They win through driving. They actually do OK against Tombstone in the beginning, pushing them around the ring. But once Tombstone gets a solid hit or too, it's all over. TS gets the win.

Based on the bots we've seen fight so far, I'm breaking into three rankings (no particular order in each ranking:

Top Contenders: These bots are almost certain to make the top 16, unless something goes horribly wrong. It's theirs to lose -

Spoiler

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Sawblaze, Cobalt, Tombstone, Hypershock, Son of Whyachi, DUCK, Minotaur, Biteforce

Potentials: These bots could make it, but will have to work hard. They may have reliability issues, poor luck, or less skilled drivers -

Spoiler

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Deathroll, Ribbot, Rotator, End Game, Valkyrie, Quantum, Lockjaw, HUGE, Texas Twister, Black Dragon, Bombshell, Witch Doctor, Whiplash, Skorpios, Monsoon, Ragnarök, Yeti,

Doubtfuls: I can't see these bots making the top 16 without a LOT of luck (both positive for them and negative for their opponents) -

Spoiler

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Kraken, Subzero, Blacksmith, Shatter, Axe Backwards, Mammoth, WanHoo, Captain Shrederator, Copperhead, Bloodsport, Lucky, Free Shipping, Hydra, MadCatter, RailGun Max, Breaker Box, Falcon, Nelly the Ellybot, Rainbow

(I will say that Rainbow is the prettiest bot I've seen. The spinner is hypnotic).

Thoughts?

[Ninja_Prawn]

Thoughts?

So, I don't normally watch Battlebots (it's difficult to get it in the UK and I don't really care for the whole presentation), but I often lurk these threads because robot fighting is cool and it's interesting to read what the forumites have to say. I couldn't help but notice that Team Carbide is competing in this season (with Cobalt) - I don't know how many of you watched UK Robot Wars, but their horizontal spinner (Carbide) absolutely dominated the last three seasons of it, winning one championship and coming runner-up in the other two. Thus I looked up videos of their fights specifically, and I've not been disappointed so far!

Spoiler: vs. Subzero

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That was quick! I was skeptical about the vertical spinner at first - it looks a lot smaller and lighter than Carbide's spinner, and I believe the build rules for Battlebots permit larger and heavier robots than those of Robot Wars, so you'd think you'd need a bigger weapon, if anything. But clearly it's powerful enough! Those hits to Subzero's underside look serious. Not really much Subzero could have done there; their ground clearance just isn't low enough.

It's nice to see Cobalt stop fighting once Subzero was disabled, too. They had a bit of a reputation in the UK for strategically wrecking robots after a fight was over, so that they'd be unable to come back for subsequent bouts. Didn't win them many friends in the pit.

Spoiler: vs. DUCK!

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DUCK! is pretty durable, huh? They were lucky they didn't take a hit on a wheel, though. And VERY lucky that Cobalt got stuck on the arena floor. I don't think they'd have lasted much longer, otherwise.

You know, I'm pretty sure they banned unarmed robots years ago in the UK, so something like DUCK! might be unfamiliar territory for the Carbide guys. They might need to alter their plans against them in future. Trying to wear them down with lots of body shots is risky due to arena hazards (the screws in particular seem kind of unfair, from other Battlebots bouts I've seen). Targetted attacks against the wheels could end the fight quicker.

[Traab]

So has tombstones driver stopped being a massive jerk yet? I dont know why, but he has always come off like a jerk to me. I think he eventually stopped his extra damage to already beaten bots, probably damaged himself once showboating then pretended he developed good sportsmanship or something. He always seems to be taunting his opponent "Oh you want a little more?" and so forth.

[MikelaC1]

No, he's still a jerk. He may not pound on clearly defeated bots any more, but his out of ring behavior leaves a lot to be desired. I really dislike smug, arrogant people.

Spoiler: Duck

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The win by Duck was one of the worst jokes, did absolutely nothing, got tossed around like a rag doll...and then wins when his opponent gets hung up on floor panel that wasnt fastened properly. What sort of winning strategy is that, rely on pure luck and bad roadies not doing their job

[Ninja_Prawn]

So, I was just reading up on the Battlebots rules. I noticed that flying bots are allowed and ranged weapons are allowed. You can probably guess where I'm going with this: I'm wondering if a swarm of 10lb quadcopters could be viable in competition. I'm imagining the drones carrying some kind of air-gun, firing solid shotgun slugs at the projectile speed limit (370ft/s). Would that impart enough energy to damage a conventional robot? Can flying drones carry enough weight to mount that kind of weapon? Can a quadcopter cope with that kind of recoil (assuming it's been designed specifically to do so)?

It just seems kind of weird for the rules to allow fliers, if they're not viable at all.

[MikelaC1]

So, I was just reading up on the Battlebots rules. I noticed that flying bots are allowed and ranged weapons are allowed. You can probably guess where I'm going with this: I'm wondering if a swarm of 10lb quadcopters could be viable in competition. I'm imagining the drones carrying some kind of air-gun, firing solid shotgun slugs at the projectile speed limit (370ft/s). Would that impart enough energy to damage a conventional robot? Can flying drones carry enough weight to mount that kind of weapon? Can a quadcopter cope with that kind of recoil (assuming it's been designed specifically to do so)?

It just seems kind of weird for the rules to allow fliers, if they're not viable at all.

You can only have a certain number of drivers in any match, so far I havent seen more than 2 so a swarm would be hard to co-ordinate.

[tomandtish]

So has tombstones driver stopped being a massive jerk yet? I dont know why, but he has always come off like a jerk to me. I think he eventually stopped his extra damage to already beaten bots, probably damaged himself once showboating then pretended he developed good sportsmanship or something. He always seems to be taunting his opponent "Oh you want a little more?" and so forth.

IRL, He actually gets along well with most of the others. He's chosen to be the designated "villain" that competitions like this benefit from, and it is actually part of his popularity. He's the dragon at the end of the dungeon, the giant at the top of the beanstalk, etc.

So, I don't normally watch Battlebots (it's difficult to get it in the UK and I don't really care for the whole presentation), but I often lurk these threads because robot fighting is cool and it's interesting to read what the forumites have to say. I couldn't help but notice that Team Carbide is competing in this season (with Cobalt) - I don't know how many of you watched UK Robot Wars, but their horizontal spinner (Carbide) absolutely dominated the last three seasons of it, winning one championship and coming runner-up in the other two. Thus I looked up videos of their fights specifically, and I've not been disappointed so far!

Spoiler: vs. Subzero

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That was quick! I was skeptical about the vertical spinner at first - it looks a lot smaller and lighter than Carbide's spinner, and I believe the build rules for Battlebots permit larger and heavier robots than those of Robot Wars, so you'd think you'd need a bigger weapon, if anything. But clearly it's powerful enough! Those hits to Subzero's underside look serious. Not really much Subzero could have done there; their ground clearance just isn't low enough.

It's nice to see Cobalt stop fighting once Subzero was disabled, too. They had a bit of a reputation in the UK for strategically wrecking robots after a fight was over, so that they'd be unable to come back for subsequent bouts. Didn't win them many friends in the pit.

Spoiler: vs. DUCK!

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DUCK! is pretty durable, huh? They were lucky they didn't take a hit on a wheel, though. And VERY lucky that Cobalt got stuck on the arena floor. I don't think they'd have lasted much longer, otherwise.

You know, I'm pretty sure they banned unarmed robots years ago in the UK, so something like DUCK! might be unfamiliar territory for the Carbide guys. They might need to alter their plans against them in future. Trying to wear them down with lots of body shots is risky due to arena hazards (the screws in particular seem kind of unfair, from other Battlebots bouts I've seen). Targetted attacks against the wheels could end the fight quicker.

Technically DUCK is not unarmed. The primary weapon is the lifter that is part of the wedge. (The fact that it is an extremely ineffective weapon and has made no appreciable difference in any of DUCK's wins is beside the point. )

Also, don;t know about the UK rules, but here intentional late hits after the match has ended can result in trouble.

After a Match has concluded, if a Robot deliberately attacks an opponent Robot, the Team of the attacking
Robot may be Disqualified or Expelled, at the judgment of BattleBots Officials.

As for week 5:

Black Dragon

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had a pretty decisive victory over Bloodsport. But I'm not convinced they've taken on a real contender yet.

Captain Shrederator

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fell to Witch Doctor. CS has never impressed me that much and nothing I saw in this fight changes that. Witch Doctor had a more solid fight.

Huge

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took out Jasper, a bot I haven't seen fight before. I'll be honest, I'm not sure how the hammer part of Jasper was supposed to work, and we didn't see it do anything as a hammer. Jasper does not seem to be a contender.

Minotaur

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fell to Gigabyte. They haven't resolved the reliability issues on the drum spinner yet. With two losses Minotaur has to drop to the potential category. 0-2 is hard to come back from AND they don't seem to be making progress on their bugs.

Uppercut (which is a bot I haven't seen before)

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handily took apart Mammoth. The lack of armor on Mammoth is definitely a handicap. Uppercut seems solidly in the potential range.

Wanhoo

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fell to Shatter. I have to admit, this is the first time I've seen a hammer actually do significant damage. Helps that it is more of a spike. I'm still not sold on the design, because Wanhoo was having some maneuvering issues.

Whiplash

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pulled off exactly the strategy they needed to against Son of Whyachi, keeping them jammed up and not letting the spinner really get up to speed. That's one of the best drivers in the current season.

Some thoughts on the style of bots we've seen....

Horizontal spinners (Tombstone, SOW, Gemini) seem to have the highest ceiling in terms of damage potential. There's a lot of room for variation however.

Vertical/drum spinners (Minotaur, Yeti, Cobalt) seem to have a slightly lower ceiling than the horizontals, but a higher floor. They do seem to be more glitchy however, and seem a bit more likely to have reliability issues.

Flippers (Bronco, Subzero) have a LOT of variation in how well they work. The only one that seems consistently effective is Bronco.

Lifters/Grapplers: While some designs are better than others, this design is really only effective with a great driver. OTOH, they are the style that arguably benefits most from a great driver.

Hammers/Saws These designs don't really impress much. Sawblaze has a great record, but their weapon hasn't been a significant factor in any fight (they win due to driving). Shatter is the only bot I've seen inflict significant damage (and only once so far). I don't see a bot of this style ever winning.

Full Body spinners (Captain Shrederator, Gigabyte) have potential, but also seem to consistently have reliability issues. CS is especially trouble prone.

Incidentally, I notice that CHOMP and Icewave are both missing from this season. CHOMP is no real loss, but Icewave was alays a solid contender.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Flippers (Bronco, Subzero) have a LOT of variation in how well they work. The only one that seems consistently effective is Bronco.

I find this quite interesting, since flippers have been consistently successful in Robot Wars. 4 of the 10 wars were won by flipper robots (5 if you count Roadblock, which mostly won by turning people over just using its geometry), and the only robot to win multiple titles (Chaos 2) was a high-pressure flipper.

I think perhaps the difference is that CO₂ is banned in Battlebots... I'm pretty sure all of the flipper robots here used CO₂.

[Traab]

With spinners I think the issue is reliability. A horizontal spinner is easier to balance, and it causes deflections rather than uplifting which lowers the strain on it when it hits which means its less likely to break after a solid slam. Pushing a guy to the left is easier than hurling him into the air after all. Plus, as we see happen a LOT, the vertical spinners tend to be in trouble when they flip, while horizontal ones 9 times out of 10 keep going with the only difference being the height of the spinning blade. Nightmare being the most famous example. Not only was he more or less done if he flipped over, his own weapon would unbalance him if it went to full speed and he tried to turn fast. Too much mass and momentum. Other vertical blade bots go for smaller blades, which improves stability, but also greatly reduces damage potential due to less mass meaning less force on impact. Meanwhile a horizontal spinner is a lower center of gravity, which means it can be heavier and faster without toppling over, or tearing itself apart on impact.

As for hammer bots, I agree, the only time they tend to be effective is when they are hammer spike bots. I think its a matter of difficulty in imparting enough force to its slam to do damage and reset quickly. We see a lot of them have a significant reload time, im assuming they are pneumatic, and well, blunt force requires a lot more effort to be effective than a spike. Its the difference in punching someone so hard they get a skull fracture, and stabbing them with a spike. The spike penetrates much easier. The hammer might knock components loose but the impalement is both a better visual, and more likely to break something internally. What was that bot the mythbusters had? I think grant was the one with a fast pickaxe bot.

[tomandtish]

...I think perhaps the difference is that CO₂ is banned in Battlebots... I'm pretty sure all of the flipper robots here used CO₂.

I wonder why CO₂ is specifically banned in Battlebots? Not the asphyxiation reason, since they do allow Nitrogen.

... What was that bot the mythbusters had? I think grant was the one with a fast pickaxe bot.

Deadblow was Grant's hammer bot. He did well with it and it definitely did damage, but was also a middleweight bot (60-120 pounds) so comparing it to the current hammer bots isn't really valid. With 130 fewer pounds to work with, I suspect the armoring issues are a lot tougher.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I wonder why CO₂ is specifically banned in Battlebots? Not the asphyxiation reason, since they do allow Nitrogen.

According to what I'm just now reading on reddit, there's no good reason to ban CO₂. There have been suggestions that CO₂ systems need more expertise to build because the fluid is stored as a liquid and undergoes a phase change within the robot, but it's not really any more dangerous because of that. In fact, N₂ systems are the more likely of the two to explode if they get hit by a weapon. Nitrogen necessitates higher operating pressures, too. shrug

[Iruka]

According to what I'm just now reading on reddit, there's no good reason to ban CO₂. There have been suggestions that CO₂ systems need more expertise to build because the fluid is stored as a liquid and undergoes a phase change within the robot, but it's not really any more dangerous because of that. In fact, N₂ systems are the more likely of the two to explode if they get hit by a weapon. Nitrogen necessitates higher operating pressures, too. shrug

The threshold for negative effects is much lower than for N₂. N₂ becomes dangerous only when it starts replacing oxygen. You would still have to leak a lot of CO₂, but I guess they are playing it safe.

[Arcane_Secrets]

[List of different types of bots]

There are also flame bots, but it seems like there are a very limited array of circumstances in which they really work or can work. They seem to have to be able to grapple first and then be able to launch concentrated flames from that point, like I saw in one fight where I think it was Bombshell got completely lifted and roasted, or Warhead v. Obwalden Overlord where Warhead bit down on the shield, fired and melted it, followed by then the bot (which was really slow and badly designed anyway) and then just immolated it.

I also wonder if its allowed under the rules to have more focused forms of fire? Something closer to a short period use welding torch embedded in the bot itself, so that way if it makes a successful grapple it can just burn a hole right through armor or a tire. If you could combine the biting of Quantum with that then you'd really have something.

[Traab]

[List of different types of bots]

There are also flame bots, but it seems like there are a very limited array of circumstances in which they really work or can work. They seem to have to be able to grapple first and then be able to launch concentrated flames from that point, like I saw in one fight where I think it was Bombshell got completely lifted and roasted, or Warhead v. Obwalden Overlord where Warhead bit down on the shield, fired and melted it, followed by then the bot (which was really slow and badly designed anyway) and then just immolated it.

I also wonder if its allowed under the rules to have more focused forms of fire? Something closer to a short period use welding torch embedded in the bot itself, so that way if it makes a successful grapple it can just burn a hole right through armor or a tire. If you could combine the biting of Quantum with that then you'd really have something.

Fire is one of those flashy weapons like the majority of saw blades (not spin buts, but actual saw blades) They are great for throwing off a wonderful visual show with sparks and of course clouds of flame, but its rare they do much actual damage in a battle. Yeah a couple times a grab bot has managed to pin someone in place and burn them, but usually it accomplishes little. Same for the saw blades, lots of sparks, cosmetic damage, but for whatever reason, they tend to be terrible at truly cutting through an enemy. The spin bots are better because it tends to be massive blunt trauma as a lump of metal spinning at 5000 rpm smashes into the target, shearing off parts rather than cutting through them.

Now minibots are an interesting thing. The flying drones are freaking stupid. Utterly pointless and basically act as at best a nonentity, at worst as free points for the opponent, I can never forget, or forgive that one battle where a bot with a PLASTIC GARDEN RAKE took one down. Even the announcers had a hard time keeping from laughing at how absurd it was. But the mini bots on the ground have sometimes been useful. I remember one guy had two minibots, one was a surprisingly powerful flamethrower and the other was a wedge bot whose entire purpose was to get underfoot and make it harder for the enemy to move around while also being so low to the ground it was almost impossible to hit him. The main downside there being, these bots are weak as heck and make a wonderful mess when they get obliterated from one real hit.

[Ninja_Prawn]

There are also flame bots, but it seems like there are a very limited array of circumstances in which they really work or can work.

According to Rule 7:

Flame outputs are intended for showmanship only and are not considered to be an Active Weapon

Rule 8:

Every bot must have a real weapon

And Rule 8a:

The weapon’s effectiveness also cannot depend on the use of Flames

By this logic, there should be no such thing as a 'flame bot', because every robot must have a primary weapon that is not flames.

...

To be honest, I feel that the statement (also from Rule 8) "if the weapon does not look like it can damage or incapacitate another bot, your bot will not be accepted" should make 'lifter' robots illegal. Calling a lifting device a weapon is like calling a forklift truck an 'armoured fighting vehicle'.

[Arcane_Secrets]

According to Rule 7:

Rule 8:

And Rule 8a:

By this logic, there should be no such thing as a 'flame bot', because every robot must have a primary weapon that is not flames.

...

To be honest, I feel that the statement (also from Rule 8) "if the weapon does not look like it can damage or incapacitate another bot, your bot will not be accepted" should make 'lifter' robots illegal. Calling a lifting device a weapon is like calling a forklift truck and 'armoured fighting vehicle'.

1) It doesn't really look like they enforce those rules very strictly given the examples that I already pointed out where flame bots (sort of) worked. Although your quotes did leave me wondering as to why build Chomp at all compared even to Blacksmith?

2) Putting a bot outside the ring (like Bronco, or even Duck) does, or tossing it so the impact and weight of its crashing makes it nonfunctional is still very much so incapacitating it in terms of being able to fight the other bot.

[Traab]

Im guessing the materials required to create a flame that would melt down a bot would be considered too dangerous to put into a combat scenario. Acetylene makes for very big booms even in small amounts after all.

[Arcane_Secrets]

Highlight from last night:

Spoiler

Show

Tombstone lost to Rotator when Tombstone caught on fire seriously and got counted out with one second left on the clock.

[Traab]

Highlight from last night:

Spoiler

Show

Tombstone lost to Rotator when Tombstone caught on fire seriously and got counted out with one second left on the clock.

Wow that is quite the shock.

[tomandtish]

Wow that is quite the shock.

Yeah... I'm definitely

Spoiler

Show

going to have to reconsider Rotator. I fully figured that would be a walk in the park for Tombstone. But Rotator pulled off what everyone knew. Jam up and/or disable Tombstone's blade, and it can be pushed around easily. And They did it well enough that the weapon motor overheated, causing fire. Then the drive motor overheated, causing more fire. The impressive part was that Tombstone kept driving for 90 seconds despite being on fire

[Traab]

Yeah... I'm definitely

Spoiler

Show

going to have to reconsider Rotator. I fully figured that would be a walk in the park for Tombstone. But Rotator pulled off what everyone knew. Jam up and/or disable Tombstone's blade, and it can be pushed around easily. And They did it well enough that the weapon motor overheated, causing fire. Then the drive motor overheated, causing more fire. The impressive part was that Tombstone kept driving for 90 seconds despite being on fire

Agreed on all points.

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I think my favorite part was when both bots suddenly got unbalanced from the collisions and you started to wonder if it would be a double knock out or just two bots trying to push each other now since their weapons couldnt be used without flinging themselves around. And yeah, breaking that weapon is the only way to handle tombstone, its just so few bots are capable of tanking the hits needed to do that. Ive seen it done several times, where a bot takes MANY hits before it starts to fall apart, but they just couldnt seal the deal and jam it up before it got back up to speed. And others that tried for it and were promptly reduced to scrap metal spread across the arena and impaled in the walls. Tombstones builder made VERY sure his weapon was robust and durable enough to survive a lot. Too many blade bots like that break down after a few hits because they seemed to have forgotten about that whole equal and opposite reaction thing I heard some dude talked about once. They land a VICIOUS blow, then their blade stops dead.

[Z3ro]

The fight I really want to see (but probably won't) this season is Tombstone vs Cobalt. Unlike last season when Tombstone fought Bombshell, Cobalt's design looks like it can handle horizontal spinners well, plus they have the weapon to back it up. Tombstone usually gets by inflicting massive damage that, like we saw with Rotator, even if you knock their weapon out your weapon usually goes to. I'd be very interested to see what would happen against a bot like Cobalt, who looks like they can take the hit and dish out the damage. I can't recall a time where Tombstone's armor was ever really tested. It would be interesting to see.