I think I see it! (intensive speculation spoilers)

[hamstard4ever]

From the page 75 thread:

You know, if Wanda doesn't snap out of it, you think Parson would get the bright idea of slotting her into the Thinkamancer link "alloy"? Thinking, seeing, croaking possibilities? Then the comic turns into a Shaun of the Dead parody? :D

Ok. This gives me an idea. Actually it gives me tons of ideas. I think this is the key to Parson's big plan for the finale.

We know Stanley's heading out. He seems to be bent on taking the Foolamancer for veiling. So we've got Misty, Wanda, Sizemore, and a Thinkamancer back home with Parson. Earlier Sizemore said a link of four casters can't be done, which all but guarantees that we're going to see it attempted at some point, and now seems to be the time. Not sure exactly what their goal would be... there's the thinkamancer for linking/communication, plus dirtamancy, croakamancy, lookamancy. Kind of an odd combo.

But then this brings to mind the conversation on Wanda and Sizemore's respective strengths. Sizemore has an extensive range of magical knowledge but lacks the mojo to pull off anything but dirtamancy. Wanda can cast just about anything but has never had the interest to study anything outside her area of expertise. If you linked them together, with their combined talents at the disposal of their collective mind... then what?

Well, barring any deus ex machina ubercombo, only one other specific combination has been mentioned so far other than the Eyemancer link-up: mathamancy/luckamancy. Which, as it happens, they have an insanely powerful artifact capable of supporting.

I know I'm really going out on a limb here... well, lots of limbs really. But there's just too much that clicks together. It's like watching Chekhov's Artillery Barrage in action. So here's how I think it's going to go down:

Stanley assembles the Knights and rides out on one last all-or-nothing charge against Ansom. He's got the Foolamancer along for veiling to give him an edge, so maybe it's not entirely hopeless, but the odds are ridiculously slim. Parson's stuck at home. He knows that if he ever had any chance of holding Gobwin Knob it just flew away on a suicide attack, and all he can do now is sit and wait for Ansom to crush Stanley and proceed to take the city. Parson's not going to take that lying down, so he examines what resources he has left: Mathamancy gauntlet, Misty, Sizemore, Wanda, Thinkamancer. He already discussed the implications of the mathamancy/luckamancy link with Sizemore. It would be incredibly risky, but they've got nothing to lose. It's a one-in-a-million shot... and, as we all know, one-in-a-million chances crop up nine times out of ten. Using luckamancy Parson and company make Stanley's insane suicide charge actually work. Stanley beats Ansom and gets the pliers; the pliers attune, giving Stanley their power. The alliance backs off, possibly for good but probably just to regroup.

[Arkenputtyknife]

I see the mathamancy aspect, but where does the luckamancy come from? There's been nothing in the story so far (that I'm aware of) that says Parson's gizmo has luckamancy capabilities.

Unless his next Stupid Toy is a pair of fuzzy dice… ack!

[Tekraen]

I see the mathamancy aspect, but where does the luckamancy come from? There's been nothing in the story so far (that I'm aware of) that says Parson's gizmo has luckamancy capabilities.

Unless his next Stupid Toy is a pair of fuzzy dice… ack!

When Sizemore was describing the capabilities of the mathmancy kajigger that Parson got, he described that using mathmancy+luckmancy with that object could alter events to turn battle tides. I almost think Butterfly Effect when I imagine it.

[fendrin]

I see the mathamancy aspect, but where does the luckamancy come from? There's been nothing in the story so far (that I'm aware of) that says Parson's gizmo has luckamancy capabilities.

Unless his next Stupid Toy is a pair of fuzzy dice… ack!

Better fuzzy dice than fuzzy handcuffs.

When Sizemore was describing the capabilities of the mathmancy kajigger that Parson got, he described that using mathmancy+luckmancy with that object could alter events to turn battle tides. I almost think Butterfly Effect when I imagine it.

Actually, at that point he was describing how a ruler could rely on mathamancy, not what the watch-adapter can do.

[SteveMB]

When Sizemore was describing the capabilities of the mathmancy kajigger that Parson got, he described that using mathmancy+luckmancy with that object could alter events to turn battle tides. I almost think Butterfly Effect when I imagine it.

He described a Mathamancy/Luckamancy meld as an arrangement some kings and overlords used, explaining why they'd be interested in Parson's Mathamancy armband. He didn't suggest that the armband had any Luckamancy abilities.

[Tekraen]

He described a Mathamancy/Luckamancy meld as an arrangement some kings and overlords used, explaining why they'd be interested in Parson's Mathamancy armband. He didn't suggest that the armband had any Luckamancy abilities.

Meh, I misread the comment as asking if luckamancy could be used in conjunction with its powers.

[Orkimedes]

Now, this is just something I was thinking of when I saw the Foolamancer with Stanley. Those two phrases he said just kept repeating in my mind;

Do you know who I am? Do you know who you are?

Now, this gets me thinking. Stanley knows that Ansom doesn't think much of him, and that he would probably drop everything to croak him. I see him using the Foolamancer as a decoy (as Stanley). Whatever he would do after that is anyone's guess (escape?) but I would love to see this happen

[Wender]

This is a brilliant line of speculation.

I will note one thing, a piece of foreshadowing that completely subverts the whole military/strategy angle of the story: What's the last kind of magic we see Sizemore studying?

The weakness of the Alliance has always been the alliance itself, a sprawling and tenuous thing held together by the (hoped-for, and extremely likely) certainty of overwhelming victory. Furthermore, the Alliance is literally personified by Ansom. If Stanley succeeds in taking him down, and GK repels the marbit force (remember, they will think that GK is headless with Stanley in the field), the Alliance is gravely imperiled. That's the wedge Parson will need to be able to sue for peace on relatively favorable terms. A fourmancer setup could function as a sort of trump card to call off the siege.

At this point, GK is weakened enough that even Jillian, the Archons, and whatever remaining forces she can muster to her side could still mount a serious challenge. Now that we know what her motives are, I think that's a likely endgame especially if Stanley takes Ansom down. I think Jillian would have a real chance of succeeding. And that's where the fourmancer-powered hippiemancy would come in.

The best tactics are unforeseen, and that one would come out of thin air.

[hamstard4ever]

That's an interesting consideration. I admit I'm not 100% sure on what the final outcome of all this would be; I was just kind of winging the ending. Stanley getting the pliers attuned and winning the war (or at least forcing a break) with their awesomeness just seems a little bit deus ex machina. It's not entirely unsupported, though, since the attunement thing has been directly referenced, which means that we're probably either we're going to see someone get attuned to them or else we're going to see Stanley get his hands on them and FAIL to attune (of course, both could potentially happen).

On the other hand, using super linked hippiemancy powers might provide a more plausible explanation for how the fighting could conclude (at least in a manner that didn't involve Gobwin Knob being reduced by the alliance and half the cast getting croaked) and would tie in yet another element from the story. Wanda said "Even a Grand Abbie couldn't hope to quiet the coming battle" (foreshadowing?), but Sizemore's explicitly said linked casting could achieve more powerful spells than any single caster ever could.

The question is, is there room in the plot for both linkups? Things are getting sketchier, but one possible revised endgame might look like this:

Stanley rides out. Parson links Gobwin Knob's remaining spellcasters and Sizemore and Wanda manage to pull off the mathmancy/luckamancy combo mentioned earlier, supported by the power of Parson's glove. They succeed in warping probability enough that Stanley gets insanely lucky and defeats Ansom at 100:1 odds. Stanley has the pliers, but they fail to save him when Jillian hulks out. The luckamancy runs out--maybe Wanda breaks down when Parson tries to direct the linked casters to help Stanley against Jillian? The individual casters' wills are supposedly subsumed, but Wanda is both strong-willed and in a fragile state of mind, an unusual and dangerous combo. Plus it's been established that a four-caster link would be unstable. So Wanda's head explodes and Jillian croaks Stanley. Now Parson is looking at a very pissed-off Jillian leading an army a turn or two away from him, and he's pretty much down to Sizemore. Sizemore goes all Little Engine That Could and busts out the hippiemancy he never managed to master before. Jillian chills out and the Alliance splits up when they realize they've basically accomplished what they set out to do. Jillian and Vinny split the two Arkentools between them? Just a random guess but it seems like it would be a cool outcome.

Meanwhile Parson is left to think out his next move as sole ruler of a much-weakened Gobwin Knob. Or maybe Sizemore gets the confidence he needs to reverse engineer the perfect warlord spell and send Parson home. Leaving Bogroll in charge.

Of course, all this speculation is getting less and less coherent. But I'm still pretty confident in the idea of a last desperate linked casting attempt with Wanda and Sizemore.

[Maratanos]

Whoa, there...


Does anyone actually believe this is actually gonna end with Stanley WINNING?


There's been way too much time spent establishing the fact that the coalition is basically good people and Stanley's basically a total jerk for him to just unconditionally kick their butts.



Note that this thread is kindof confusing me, so this is somewhat of a serious question.

[Wender]

That's an interesting consideration. I admit I'm not 100% sure on what the final outcome of all this would be; I was just kind of winging the ending. Stanley getting the pliers attuned and winning the war (or at least forcing a break) with their awesomeness just seems a little bit deus ex machina. It's not entirely unsupported, though, since the attunement thing has been directly referenced, which means that we're probably either we're going to see someone get attuned to them or else we're going to see Stanley get his hands on them and FAIL to attune (of course, both could potentially happen).

Thanks. I like the hippiemancy angle because 1) it's a funny plot twist; 2) a successful suit for peace allows most of the principles to survive; 3) it allows for a continuation of the Lear narrative that the Foolamancer has just established, in which Stanley gets the Arkenpliers and they don't attune to him. Obtuse as he is, he will thrash around a great deal before getting the message, and that thrashing will provide a lot of story fodder. It would drive him even harder if he survives, but suffers crippling losses, fails to get the 'pliers and the Alliance shatters and/or withdraws. If the Fool's quoting is not mere madness then Stanley has a long dark road to travel alone before the scales fall from his eyes and he sees what's really happened and who he can really trust. And by then, of course, it's all over.

Hmm. What if the "daughter" that Stanley has driven away is... Jillian?

[hamstard4ever]

Whoa, there...

Does anyone actually believe this is actually gonna end with Stanley WINNING?

There's been way too much time spent establishing the fact that the coalition is basically good people and Stanley's basically a total jerk for him to just unconditionally kick their butts.

Unconditionally? Of course not. No matter what, the best he can hope for is a temporary reprieve while his enemies regroup.

I ask you this, though: we've known from the beginning that Stanley is hopelessly outnumbered. There are two kinds of endings for stories about people fighting against impossible odds: the gritty kind where the underdogs go down bravely swinging and fail in poignant and dramatic fashion, or the zany kind where the underdogs piece together some madcap scheme based on a flimsy million-to-one-shot and manage to turn the situation on its head. So. Which one of these scenarios seems most likely here? Gritty drama or zany desperate scheme?

Moreover, there's a serious problem here: Stanley is a jerk and traditionally the jerks don't win. But what about everyone else on Stanley's side? Parson? Sizemore? They're not being set up to unconditionally lose any more than the characters on the other side, and yet an unconditional loss for them would be the default outcome of Stanley losing. As mentioned in my previous post, though, it is possible to envision a scenario where they win and Stanley doesn't. The sympathetic characters on both sides mostly win and Stanley bites it, or gets driven from power. So that's possible.

Then again, if this turns into an ongoing story, there's a strong precedent for saddling protagonists with small-minded and incompetent bosses. So that's a possible mark for Stanley winning, or at least coming up in a draw.

[teratorn]

Whoa, there...

Does anyone actually believe this is actually gonna end with Stanley WINNING?

Well, count one here. Stanley is the little guy who was chosen by the Titans themselves to ride through the ranks in GK and depose all the royals in Erfworld. He's the good guy.

About the original post. It seems too contrived. Anything is possible, maybe Wanda when linked would be able to control the Arkenpliers (they are croak-related), but I don't think we'll see something like that.

Besides, we don't even know if Misty is still alive. Would uncroaked Misty still be able to do her job?

[fendrin]

Does anyone actually believe this is actually gonna end with Stanley WINNING?

I believe it is a significant possibility. The reason I like this comic so much is that I can't always figure out what's happening next without the authors having to rely (overly*) on Deus ex Machina. In fact, I have no clue how it's going to end. I like it that way.

* I do consider Jillian 'stumbling' on the A dwagons a little bit DeMy. On the other hand, it was done to set up a necessary situation: Wanda's 'spell' being 'broken' and Jillian 'admitting her love ' for Ansom.

[Rutee]

Well, count one here. Stanley is the little guy who was chosen by the Titans themselves to ride through the ranks in GK and depose all the royals in Erfworld. He's the good guy.

I think that it's possible that Stanley isn't going to outright lose, but this sparked a particular thought. As a note though, Stanley's fighting the Coalition. That's a strong mark against him winning. Coalitions in fiction are usually the good guys :P

Anyway.. why did the Titans leave their tools behind? It's unsupported by anything in-setting already, but I suspect the Coalition and Stanley are going to beat on each other for a while before an outside force (In every sense of the word) intervenes. About all I have to back that up..

1: Charlie's Archons: They have Good/Evil beings that aren't just the Gods in their universe
2: It's noted that Stanley has all the traditional bad creatures on his side. Where are the demons?

[Guru_jake]

2: It's noted that Stanley has all the traditional bad creatures on his side. Where are the demons?

Demons usually go against the creators and gods of a realm.
The Titans created the realm, so are considered the gods of erfworld.
therefor, wouldn't the demons not be on stanley's side?

Also, i thought the yellow-skinned creatures were demons...

[teratorn]

Also, i thought the yellow-skinned creatures were demons...

Which ones? Peeps? the orange guys are Hobgobwins.

[Orkimedes]

Of course, all this speculation is getting less and less coherent. But I'm still pretty confident in the idea of a last desperate linked casting attempt with Wanda and Sizemore.

I was just reading through the archives, when I happened against something that may make this impossible

On page 6, Wanda clearly states that she is a Croakamancer, not a Lookamancer. When you first hear about the mage-link, Sizemore says that ONLY Lookamancers can link. Although Wanda has loads of talent, its hard to argue against something she herself said. Even if she could, Sizemore and Parson don't have any real magical aptitude, so they wouldn't be able to link.

Wanda and Misty may be the only ones who could link, not much of an effective combo.

[SteveMB]

I was just reading through the archives, when I happened against something that may make this impossible

On page 6, Wanda clearly states that she is a Croakamancer, not a Lookamancer. When you first hear about the mage-link, the Dirtmancer (his name escapes me) says that ONLY Lookamancers can link.

Sizemore says that linking is "a trick only Thinkamancers can perform". That means that a Thinkamancer must cast the spell to forge the link, and possibly that the Thinkamancer becomes part of the link. However, other types of casters can be included (Stanley's link included a Foolamancer, a Lookamancer, and a Thinkamancer; Sizemore and Parson describe how a combination of Luckamancers and a Mathemancers would be used to tilt battles).

[Leewei]

I don't think Parson will have the 4-way link. This isn't saying that he couldn't, for example, have the Thinkamancer link Sizemore and Wanda, then have control of the link transfered to Sizemore and have the Thinkamancer drop it. Following this, Parson could enter the link and, viola, God Mode.

[Fuzzy_Juan]

now that is an interesting theory...Parson linking with Wanda and Sizemore...Wanda's ability, Sizemore's knowledge, funneled through Parson's tactical know-how...perhaps such a link will give him the knowledge to actually pull somehting off...

[Raguzert]

Uh, it was kinda implied that those linked lose their mind, and this 4-way link would leave... bogrol in charge? prolly a bad idea especially with his repeated atempts to imitate protagonist, which can only mean failure... sigh, still waiting for lord hamster to pull a good move

[luffy316]

I had a similar speculation, but it was that Sizemore's wide studies and Wanda's natural talents would let them replace the missing two casters in the link. We've seen Wanda perform Findamancy with finding Sizemore, so perhaps it doesn't have to be a GOOD link up.

Could be a crude map, for example. Or maybe have the map be made of... unmentionables.

[Justyn]

I had a similar speculation, but it was that Sizemore's wide studies and Wanda's natural talents would let them replace the missing two casters in the link. We've seen Wanda perform Findamancy with finding Sizemore, so perhaps it doesn't have to be a GOOD link up.

Could be a crude map, for example. Or maybe have the map be made of... unmentionables.

Are you saying the map would have to be made out of crap? Is that what you are saying; the map would need to be made of crap?

[Leewei]

Also, I don't think Stanley's running away. He's not the tactical genius Parson is, and he can't stand Parson, but he knows a good plan when he sees it. Remember Parson's comments about the Leadership and Artifact bonuses?

Stanley's going to attempt to recreate the dragon fight with his remaining dragons. The Foolamancer will make the hobgobwin knights look like uncroaked warlords. When Ansom shows with the Arkenpliers, Stanley will spring his trap, matching Leadership bonus and overmatching Artifact bonus (no uncroaked in this fight).

What I'm wondering about now is: what's in Parson's Stupidmeal today?

[teratorn]

Also, I don't think Stanley's running away. He's not the tactical genius Parson is, and he can't stand Parson, but he knows a good plan when he sees it.

For Parson's sake it would be better. Without the dwagons Parson will have a tough time defending the outer walls, and will really take a genius to beat Ansom's army once inside the city. But "Good buy, and good luck" seems a bit final.

[SteveMB]

Stanley's going to attempt to recreate the dragon fight with his remaining dragons.

He'd need to find the remaining siege units. Theoretically, he could remember their locations at the end of Ansom's turn, but that's unlikely -- he's not detail-oriented and there's no indication that he has a photographic memory. I suppose he could scout with the dwagons, but they'd take hits when they encountered archery units.

The simplest explanation at this point is that he's beating feet.

[Leewei]

I'd be willing to believe Stanley's leaving, except for the three hobgobwin knights and the Foolamancer he took along. He has something very specific in mind for them.