The LA-assignment thread VII: LA LA Land

[danielxcutter]

Wait, what are those little red things above its maw?

*squints*

...Huh. The more you know.

[Zaq]

Wait, what are those little red things above its maw?

Hmm. I thought it had the [blind] keyword or some equivalent.

Insert joke here about how I failed my own Spot check to realize that they have a listed Spot score.

[Thurbane]

*squints*

...Huh. The more you know.

I wonder if it's related to the Ormyrr

[GreatWyrmGold]

Not all albino worm-monsters are related, Thurbane.

[Aniikinis]

Reading through all of this, I'm kinda shocked that people didn't realize it had eyes.

[Blue Jay]

Insert joke here about how I failed my own Spot check to realize that they have a listed Spot score.

Well, to be fair, a monster's listed skill check shouldn't necessarily be taken as meaning anything in particular. Take the grimlock, for example: being blind didn't stop it from having Spot as a racial class skill. Nor did it stop it from taking Alertness as its 1st-level feat, in spite of the fact that Skill Focus (Listen) would have made so much more sense. But the grimlock didn't stop there: it also went on to invest 2 skill points into Spot.

Maybe somebody should go back through and try to optimize monster stat blocks.

[danielxcutter]

Reading through all of this, I'm kinda shocked that people didn't realize it had eyes.

To be fair, they're really small compared to the rest of the creature, and with that big of a mouth you probably have less reason to notice them!

[Zaq]

Reading through all of this, I'm kinda shocked that people didn't realize it had eyes.

The non-flesh-harrower one has “no discernible [. . .] sensory organs,” and we just did the intellect devourer and the psicrystal not very long ago, each of which has a limited sensory range. We’d been primed, as it were. Add in the flesh harrower having blindsight, and... I think you can understand where the thought process might have come from.

[Aniikinis]

To be fair, they're really small compared to the rest of the creature, and with that big of a mouth you probably have less reason to notice them!

The non-flesh-harrower one has “no discernible [. . .] sensory organs,” and we just did the intellect devourer and the psicrystal not very long ago, each of which has a limited sensory range. We’d been primed, as it were. Add in the flesh harrower having blindsight, and... I think you can understand where the thought process might have come from.

Fair enough, I supposed. It probably also has something to do with my brightness being all the way up and rgb balance slightly skewed along with using them a few times in encounters.

[GreatWyrmGold]

The non-flesh-harrower one has “no discernible [. . .] sensory organs”...

Wait, why does the flesh harrower have eyes?

[Efrate]

All the better to see you with my pretty.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Wait, why does the flesh harrower have eyes?

Because the visual artist was given unclear instructions or someone changed their mind after they had the art most likely.

[Inevitability]

ibgrf!

+0: 4 regular votes, 1 grudging one
+1: 2 votes

Less turnout than I expected, but I suppose that this monster is hardly as glamorous as the puppeteer. LA will remain at +0.

Wait, why does the flesh harrower have eyes?

It's a subspecies that's specifically meant for combat, so I guess that makes eyes more necessary?

[Inevitability]

Temporal Filcher

I really like the filcher! It's got a very neat monster-of-the-week feel, especially if the PCs don't know what it does (and ask yourself: what's the last time a PC put skill points in knowledge(dungeoneering)?).

Sadly, it's also weighed down by eight aberration RHD. Its other chassis features are decent (40 ft. movement, large size, modest boosts to nearly all stats, an impressive claw/claw/claw/claw/bite/horn attack routine), but 8 RHD really hurts.

The filcher, in an interesting twist on improved grab, can immediately attempt to grapple something if it hits twice with its claws. If it establishes a hold, it and its prey are immediately shifted seven minutes into the future (with a chance of this maneuver dazing the foe for one round). Taking both one ally and one opponent out of action is usually worth it, and having every party member ready to gang up on the lone foe is a nice bonus too. Obviously, the ability is best when one monster makes up about half of an encounter, but it's still useful both in solo fights and against small groups of foes.

The flavor text implies a filcher can use this ability on itself, but I don't see any obvious applications of this apart from convulted ambushes and surviving temporary environmental hazards.

Furthermore, the filcher has some innate PLAs. At-will Chameleon is essential for any Large stealth character, albeit somewhat situational. At-will Dimension Door is very nifty, both for personal maneuverability and for partycab purposes. 3/day Mental Barrier has obvious applications. At-will Psionic Levitate, Wall Walker, and Distraction are less useful, but still notable.

As said before, I like the filcher. I like its rather unique main ability, I like its PLAs, I even like its completely bizarre appearance. However, with the specter of 8 aberration RHD looming over it, -0 is probably best. It might still be worth trying out, though.

[ZamielVanWeber]

It really grinds -0 and +0 for me. With DCFS it can take Improved Rapid Strike twice which is note worthy in a very narrow sense. This thing is a melee beast without the Str to back it up and I could see potential in a barbarian builds for pounce and the bonus strength from rage as well as keeping your BAB up for a Rapid Strike. A Tiger Claw focused martial adept also has potential.

Really that poor strength relative to 8 aberration hit dice and large size makes me leery of singing it's praises too much but I feel like there is enough here to warrant a +0.

[StevenC21]

-0.

You can almost never justify EIGHT ABERRATION RHD. Certainly not with this mediocre thing.

[ViperMagnum357]

Temporal Filcher: Net abilities are only +14, and +3 natural AC, which is terrible for 8 RHD (which are also crap and cost you 2 BAB). Having -4 int and 8 RHD worth of 2+ Int puts any skiller straight out the window, and +2 Wis/+4 Cha on 8 RHD mean you have little to build on for a caster; martial it is. Average reach and speed with no alternate modes is not a promising start; the real meat here is 6 natural attacks, 4 with Improved Grab at the same size. Damage dice are average, and Temporal Filch is niche-you can remove yourself and 1 opponent from the encounter, which has some use, but I am not sure how often that will come up on a build that with be a martial and probably more useful for taking attention away from the casters.

PLA's; Chameleon and distract are decent but limited and easily replicated with items, wall walker and levitate should be of limited use once you have flight, and mental barrier will eventually be overlaid by better effects or permanent items-but remains useful up through pre-Epic. That leaves At-will dimension door out to 720 feet. That buys you a lot of leeway, but at the end of the day this thing gets pigeonholed into a few specific roles for which it is ill-suited as a PC.

I think this is firmly LA -0. There are better ways to get all its bruiser abilities in a better chassis, while the Dimension Door and skipping forward in time do not do nearly enough to make up the difference.

[Celestia]

(and ask yourself: what's the last time a PC put skill points in knowledge(dungeoneering)?).

Anyone who takes Knowledge Devotion?

[Aniikinis]

I want to say +0 because I really like the monster and the sort of stupidity you can do with it. But on the other hand, it doesn't have too much to balance out against the 8 rhd. I'm gonna give it -0 for now, but may change my vote later based on new info and arguments.

[Caelestion]

Less turnout than I expected, but I suppose that this monster is hardly as glamorous as the puppeteer. LA will remain at +0.

I was actually expecting the voting window to stay open longer than it did, but meh.

(and ask yourself: what's the last time a PC put skill points in knowledge(dungeoneering)?).

I do it, but then I'm weird. :)

[Blue Jay]

Oh, I originally posted a vote for the flesh harrower in my previous post, but I must have edited it out when I deleted a short paragraph in the end. I voted for LA +0 for the Flesh Harrower, but with the caveat that it might be worth LA +1 at low levels, where high ability scores have outsized impacts on the game.

-----

I think I'll vote for LA +0 for the Temporal Filcher. The Ethereal Filcher is one of my favorite quirky monsters from MM, and I think it's better than the Temporal Filcher as both a monster and a potential PC. The Temporal Filcher has much better combat ability than the Ethereal Filcher, but Time Filch is tied to the grapple mechanics, while the Temporal Filcher is kind of a mediocre grappler. The Temporal Filcher's at-will dimension door is neat, but the Ethereal Filcher's jaunt ability has some tactical advantages because you can take a full-round action immediately after using it.

Plus, while Time Filch is obviously a winning tactic from an in-character perspective; from an OOC perspective, it feels like it will usually amount to a self-imposed 30-minute pizza break while your friends get to continue playing without you. In play-by-post, it's likely to become a two-week pizza break. That doesn't seem like a very fun way to play the game to me.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

This seems decently comparable to a mobility/offense Totemist. You don't have the damage boosters or the ability to customize your loadout, but on the other hand you have more natural weapons, can use those four limbs for weapons if you want, and your chakras are all still open (even/especially the totem chakra, which would normally need to be filled with Double Chakra Bind using Girallon Arms and Blink Shirt to pull this off). So you're actually a level ahead of when a Totemist could pull this off (Double Chakra requires meldshaper level 9).

+0 from me.

[javcs]

I put some points into Knowledge (dungeoneering) semi-regularly. At least, if I'm playing the right kind of character. Though, admittedly, as a skill monkey type build, I usually don't max it out.



The Temporal Filcher is LA -0 as a PC.
It can be a whole lot of fun as a DM, though. Especially since it's a CR 3.

[Mystic Muse]

Plus, while Time Filch is obviously a winning tactic from an in-character perspective; from an OOC perspective, it feels like it will usually amount to a self-imposed 30-minute pizza break while your friends get to continue playing without you. In play-by-post, it's likely to become a two-week pizza break. That doesn't seem like a very fun way to play the game to me.

A two week pizza break sounds fantastic. Where can I get one of those?

[StevenC21]

With a time filcher, obviously.

...or Extended Persistent Time Stop.

[Efrate]

I will go +0. It's ahead of a totemist by a bit and that is the closest blender type comparison. It is not a LOT better but it has minor advantages. Time hop then dim dooring away might cause boss monsters buffstack to wear off assuming you can grab them. That is powerful if niche. Then your party gets to go after BBEG fully fresh after cleaning up minions, healing and rebuffing if needed.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I really like the filcher! It's got a very neat monster-of-the-week feel, especially if the PCs don't know what it does (and ask yourself: what's the last time a PC put skill points in knowledge(dungeoneering)?).

I do with some regularity, when I play Pathfinder. Just in case I fight an aberration, ooze, or the like, and want to know what's up with it. Sometimes I finagle out some other use for it, too!

A big drawback the Temp. Filcher faces is that it takes itself out of the fight when it uses its central gimmick. That's...not a great play experience for someone using this as their own player character.
"I grab the boss. Aight, you guys finish off the minions, I'll go hit YouTube until you're done."
If a monster's method of taking itself out of the encounter was strong enough for its level (maybe if it also killed the target?), it would be worth considering. But with the merely okay abilities the Filcher possesses, it's a -0. Great minion, terrible character.

[Thurbane]

Without knowing much about psionic powers, hard for me to rate: but 8 RHD of a poor kind, weird body shape, and a -4 hit to Int don't bode well. 8 levels of 1 good save, 3/4 BAB and 2 skill points level hurt anyone.

It's special attack is novel: in a party against a single foe, it could give the rest of the group time to buff up and get in position for the reappearance.

If I'm reading it right, it gets at will Levitate, Dimension Door and Spider Climb equivalents? Not too shabby: combined with a 40 ft base move, you shouldn't have any movement or obstacle issues.

I hold my LA vote in reserve for the time being...

[lord_khaine]

I think the Time Filch ability is to useful for this Monster to go under LA 0, even if its a slightly dull ability from the users point of view.
Getting to potentially isolate remove the biggest or second biggest thread in a encounter is just to useful.

[javcs]

I think the Time Filch ability is to useful for this Monster to go under LA 0, even if its a slightly dull ability from the users point of view.
Getting to potentially isolate remove the biggest or second biggest thread in a encounter is just to useful.

Yeah ... but you need to successfully grapple the target to pull that off.
And you have 8 aberration RHD and a pathetic racial strength modifier for a melee or grapple type - at any number of RHD, and especially at 8 RHD and Large size. Being Large is essentially +4 Strength, which means the Temporal Filcher really has a -2 Strength racial modifier.
And grappling is incredibly build intensive under favorable circumstances.



Honestly, you'd be better off forgetting about Time Filch and going natural attack spam, and bonus damage attack riders. Not that you're much better at that.