Girl Genius XXVI: Madness is the best possible response

[Radar]

I think that might've been more of a "I'll kill you last" hmm than a "I'd better show some restraint to this fellow who just helped save my life".

Well... such promises are not very reliable to be honest.

[Scarlet Knight]

...

The weird thing, to me at least, is that his smile might be very smug but it doesn't look especially villainous. I definitely would have expected a lot more gloating if he -had- taken the opportunity to poison her. Maybe he's joining Team Heterodyne as one of the heroes?

I mean, imagine if he -didn't- poison her. That must've been some kiss to knock Lu out of god mode...

"That day, she was amazed to discover that when he was saying 'As you wish,' what he meant was, 'I love you.' "

[Grif]

The weird thing, to me at least, is that his smile might be very smug but it doesn't look especially villainous. I definitely would have expected a lot more gloating if he -had- taken the opportunity to poison her. Maybe he's joining Team Heterodyne as one of the heroes?

I can believe Martellus being kept around as one of those "bad" minions, one that Agatha uses to punish people who actually ticked her off good, but I don't foresee him giving up the Storm King schtick. At least, for the moment. But he has been showing signs that he recognises that his position isn't very tenable and unlike most other mad sparks, seem to far more pragmatic.

He's an interesting character, that one. Actively ambitious and malicious, but pragmatic enough that he'd probably join Team Good to keep his head in one piece.

[Radar]

"That day, she was amazed to discover that when he was saying 'As you wish,' what he meant was, 'I love you.' "

Inconceivable!

[factotum]

Inconceivable!

You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Narkis]

I can believe Martellus being kept around as one of those "bad" minions, one that Agatha uses to punish people who actually ticked her off good, but I don't foresee him giving up the Storm King schtick. At least, for the moment. But he has been showing signs that he recognises that his position isn't very tenable and unlike most other mad sparks, seem to far more pragmatic.

He's an interesting character, that one. Actively ambitious and malicious, but pragmatic enough that he'd probably join Team Good to keep his head in one piece.

I can't shake the feeling that Martellus's position in the story was originally meant for Tarvek, but the Pholios accidentally made him too sympathetic somewhere along the way.

[Gauntlet]

I can't shake the feeling that Martellus's position in the story was originally meant for Tarvek, but the Pholios accidentally made him too sympathetic somewhere along the way.

I am pretty sure that they have admitted as such somewhere. I don't have any sources, but the idea that "Tarvek was originally going to be more antagonistic, but the audience liked him so much he ended up joining the good guys" has been bouncing around for ages, before Martellus even showed up at all.

[GloatingSwine]

Not sure about that, he touched her when her mother was in control... and her mother lost flame queen power. Possible Tweedle infected her with an upgraded touch (that is harder to replace with a weasel), and he would be creepy enough to perhaps even have switched it to needing a kiss rather than just a touch which then forces a "bliss" emotional response in the target. (Like a drug addict going through horrible withdrawal symptoms then suddenly given more drugs)

He said he was rushed the first time and it wasn't his best work, he has had lots of time to prepare better work.

On the other hand, last time it was so inconsequential Agatha solved it off-panel....

In fact, I don't think Martellus is all that strong a Spark. That's why he's more pragmatic than other Madboys and he uses a lot of tools other people have built without immediately stopping to "improve" them. He's good at his specialisation in biochemistry because he learned from Vapnoople, but he's not as broadly or wildly talented as Agatha or Gil (or probably Tarvek)

[HandofShadows]

Kind of a off the wall question, but has anyone ever wondered what the D&D alignments for the GG cast would be?

[Gauntlet]

Kind of a off the wall question, but has anyone ever wondered what the D&D alignments for the GG cast would be?

Lawful Good	Neutral Good	Chaotic Good
Tarvek, Colette	Gil, Wooster	Agatha, Zeetha
Lawful Neutral	True Neutral	Chaotic Neutral
Klaus, Moloch	Violetta, Higgs	The Jaegers, Krosp
Lawful Evil	Neutral Evil	Chaotic Evil
Martellus, Albia (?)	Lucrezia, Aaronev	Der Kestle, Vapnoople, Bang

[diremage]

Kind of a off the wall question, but has anyone ever wondered what the D&D alignments for the GG cast would be?

Edit: Ninja'd

Mmm, hard to pin some of them down as their motivations change over time. Thinking about it, there are some that are pretty cut and dried, but most of the main characters are more 3-dimensional.

Klaus Wulfenbach: "You can't make an omelette without crushing dozens of eggs beneath your steel boots and then disemboweling the chickens that laid them as a warning to others." Strikes me as pretty solid LE.

Lucrezia: "Soon, infinite power will be mine. AND THEN I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL!" Seems like a strong argument for CE.

Albia: "They will make such a -fine- addition to my garden." "It is literally impossible for her subjects to even think about going against her will." Also solidly LE.

Voltaire: "All are welcome in my city, as long as you behave yourself, and I always honor my debts, even when it kills me." Strikes me as fairly solid LG.

Gil: I mean, most of his motivation seems to be chasing after girls, so it's kind of hard to pin down. I could see an argument for NG.

Tarvek: "I will steal from innocent passers-by to save the life of my sister, and send my bodyguard far away so she doesn't get hurt." Seems like a pretty solid CG.

On the other hand, last time it was so inconsequential Agatha solved it off-panel....

In fact, I don't think Martellus is all that strong a Spark. That's why he's more pragmatic than other Madboys and he uses a lot of tools other people have built without immediately stopping to "improve" them. He's good at his specialisation in biochemistry because he learned from Vapnoople, but he's not as broadly or wildly talented as Agatha or Gil (or probably Tarvek)

Am inclined to agree here, nothing Martellus has done as a spark has been especially effective or unique. Even his werewolves are called out as being Vapnoople's creation, and he simply has admin access or equivalent. And even with his werewolves being his main muscle minions, he hasn't figured out how to give them armor that doesn't fall apart when they transform.

And I mean, his solution to getting poisoned was to amputate, even with his specialty in biochem.

[Hamsandlich]

Klaus Wulfenbach: "You can't make an omelette without crushing dozens of eggs beneath your steel boots and then disemboweling the chickens that laid them as a warning to others." Strikes me as pretty solid LE.

That's General Tarkin, not Klaus. Klaus is pretty solidly Lawful Neutral.

[Vinyadan]

How can Klaus be neutral? He routinely destroyed the brains of his prisoners.

[Gauntlet]

Whether Klaus is LN or LE depends on whether you're looking at method or motivation, basically. He's been trying for years to maintain peace and protect Europa from the Other and from various rampaging Sparks and Spark-monsters. He gets back from wherever Lucrezia sends him, sees a Europa in chaos / being destroyed, and sets about saving it. Considering that he could have seen Europa on the brink and just left for someplace else with Gil, I think his end motives are selfless enough that he qualifies are LN rather than LE.

[HandofShadows]

How can Klaus be neutral? He routinely destroyed the brains of his prisoners.

Actually we only know that he did it to one prisoner and that was Vapnoople, who might have deserved much WOSRE than that. He never actually did it to Othar and there is lots of evidence that he let Othar free just so he could fight him. Lawful Neutral (with good tendencies) really fits him better. Klaus doesn't want to be the ruler and only is doing the job to keep the Europe from tearing itself apart in the Long War between all the sparks.

All in all Gauntlet did good job, but I would not put Tarvek in the "good" category. He's much more neutral with growing good tendencies.

[Radar]

Klaus Wulfenbach: "You can't make an omelette without crushing dozens of eggs beneath your steel boots and then disemboweling the chickens that laid them as a warning to others." Strikes me as pretty solid LE.

But this is not his policy. His law is literally Don't make me come over there - not Tremble before my might. Sure, he will not miss a heartbeat, if he needs to slag a city full of revenants of crush some rebellion or another, but he does not resort to sensless brutality. The standard policy for surrendering enemies is to either be recruited or get a reasonable leave and stop being soldiers. There is also the fact he really does not want to have an empire - he just feels it was the best thing to do in order to bring some peace to Europe.

But aside from peace, what has the Baron ever done for us?

According to wiki quite a lot actually.

[GloatingSwine]

Kind of a off the wall question, but has anyone ever wondered what the D&D alignments for the GG cast would be?

Every Spark is Chaotic Science!

It's in their nature, they can't help it.

That's kind of the driving force of the setting and the point of everything Klaus did. To rein in the chaos which is the natural result of the Spark.

[Rodin]

Actually we only know that he did it to one prisoner and that was Vapnoople, who might have deserved much WOSRE than that. He never actually did it to Othar and there is lots of evidence that he let Othar free just so he could fight him. Lawful Neutral (with good tendencies) really fits him better. Klaus doesn't want to be the ruler and only is doing the job to keep the Europe from tearing itself apart in the Long War between all the sparks.

All in all Gauntlet did good job, but I would not put Tarvek in the "good" category. He's much more neutral with growing good tendencies.

It's strongly implied that Klaus has been meddling with the brains of other Sparks. Vapnoople is just the only one we see.

My overall assessment is that the D&D alignments are insufficient for characters as complex as these. There's no way Tarvek "I'm going to use slaver wasps to take over Europa" Sturmvoraus could be considered anything less than Chaotic Evil, but what we see from him is significantly deeper than that. The Baron stomps in with his army and rules through fear and force, but he's doing so because the alternative is worse. Martellus is a ruthless sneak who takes control of his family via repeated assassination (hardly a Lawful trait), but he also has what it takes to make a pretty decent king.

The D&D alignment chart is too reductive for characters with such complicated motivations and agendas.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Every Spark is Chaotic Science!

Fixed that for you.

[xroads]

There's no way Tarvek "I'm going to use slaver wasps to take over Europa" Sturmvoraus could be considered anything less than Chaotic Evil, but what we see from him is significantly deeper than that.

I don't think Tarvek qualifies as chaotic evil anymore. At least not since his epiphany.

If anything, I'd put him the neutral camp at the moment (maybe neutral good). Still generally self serving and not overly concerned with laws unless they serve him. But with a growing concern for other people (ex. saving several lives during the vespiary squad rescue was selfless).

[PraetorDragoon]

Blowing up the dome is a sensible plan. Surprised it took this long.

[Traab]

Up till now all sides had things they wanted in here. Now? Not so much.

[eee]

Well shoot, it looks like Wooster IS deceased. Bummer.

Is Vi shrinking or is she stuck like that?

Up till now all sides had things they wanted in here. Now? Not so much.

I imagine the other guys took Crank Lu with them.

[geoduck]

Well shoot, it looks like Wooster IS deceased. Bummer.

Is Vi shrinking or is she stuck like that?



I imagine the other guys took Crank Lu with them.

I'd say Vi has shrunk, but she's still bigger than when she started. Maybe Gil will take a dose of the stuff, to explain his being bigger in that scene from The Future.

And yeah, that would have been the sensible thing for them to do..

[xroads]

Blowing up the dome is a sensible plan. Surprised it took this long.

True. I can't blame mini-castle for burying the lede on that one. Every madder worth their salt should of just assumed the dome was going to be blown.

[Rockphed]

So, reading old comics I have suddenly taken to shipping Van and Agatha's secretary. Okay, so she said "I am the one putting you to bed" not "I am the one taking you to bed", but the implication is obvious!

[Rogar Demonblud]

As exhausted as he was, it's not like you could expect anything out of him.

So, is Zeetha's "By the Gwangi!" line just a random pop culture reference, or did the Foglio's just drop another hint as to her homeland?

[eee]

So, reading old comics I have suddenly taken to shipping Van and Agatha's secretary. Okay, so she said "I am the one putting you to bed" not "I am the one taking you to bed", but the implication is obvious!

Yes, it is good to envision them married, running Mechanicsburg, assisting Agatha, being cool and efficient in the face of the usual disasters, raising the next crop of seneschals (maybe a girl this time)...

[xroads]

So, reading old comics I have suddenly taken to shipping Van and Agatha's secretary. Okay, so she said "I am the one putting you to bed" not "I am the one taking you to bed", but the implication is obvious!

Actually, I've always enjoyed the theory that the secretary is secretly one of the muses.

Granted, their isn't any evidence to support that theory. But I still like it.

[Grim Portent]

As exhausted as he was, it's not like you could expect anything out of him.

So, is Zeetha's "By the Gwangi!" line just a random pop culture reference, or did the Foglio's just drop another hint as to her homeland?

I think it's just a reference to the whole hidden valley/lost land thing that Skifander has going on.

It is possible Skifander is somewhere in America, which would be the implication if it's a hint to location, but that seems unlikely imo.