Grrl Power V: Probably Not an Octopus

[Traab]

Considering there was a full on alien invasion a short time ago, and Archon likely reported how Sciona had attempted to conquer the Earth via portals to their homeworld, Deus might actually be in some trouble here.

I'm pretty sure Deus' various interactions with aliens could open him up to a charge of espionage to a hostile foreign power and blackmailing people gives you leverage sure, but it also pisses people off. So his plans he was telling Maxima might collapse here as he might have to scramble in order to be allowed to even do business in the States.

Considering that as far as anyone knows his interactions with them was "Letting the refugees land in the foreign nation he effectively is the ruler of" I dont see that as likely. You might as well try to charge the pm of japan for violating american immigration laws because he allowed immigration into japan. It just makes no sense. As for a full on invasion, it was a single ship, halted and destroyed in like 5 minutes. Also, not alari. As for the whole sciona angle, they also likely reported that her civilization had been obliterated by some other group, so independent verification of refugee status right there.

I dont think he is in any real trouble here, its just every american government department trying to stake its claim on this issue because it interacts with them in some fashion in order to gather information. They can try to flex their muscles but its doubtful they will get very far as im fairly sure he has enough coverage from both his lawyers and his connections throughout the government to shut down any attempts to black bag him into a deep dark hole somewhere. And of course as a last option he will likely be able to leave any facility whenever he wants due to his laundry list of supers with varying abilities. But that, as I said, would be a last option as it would then officially make him a criminal.

[lord_khaine]

New comic.
And yeah. Likely they got at best get away with detaining him for a day or so.
While his 2nd in command goes though the emergency 13B manual and starts dialing numbers from a list.
But its unlikely they can get anything out of Deus without a mind reader in such a short while.

Flaunting his super team is likely a losing move though.
Suspect it would burn to many bridges for Deus, if his name can suddenly be connected to an actual crime.

[Traab]

New comic.
And yeah. Likely they got at best get away with detaining him for a day or so.
While his 2nd in command goes though the emergency 13B manual and starts dialing numbers from a list.
But its unlikely they can get anything out of Deus without a mind reader in such a short while.

Flaunting his super team is likely a losing move though.
Suspect it would burn to many bridges for Deus, if his name can suddenly be connected to an actual crime.

Yep, looks like it went pretty much how I said. "Not only am I a high muckety muck in another nation and thus mostly untouchable, im also very rich and powerful and have both legions of legal aid and political connections to the bosses of your bosses, so this isnt going to happen. Oh, and just in case you think you can disappear me?" "Hi, im his invisible bodyguard you didnt even know existed, dont try anything stupid."

And yes, using his super squad to bust him out of jail would be a last option as it would likely get messy, however, using them to escape this scenario where you could EASILY make the argument they exceeded their authority in trying to kidnap him off the street, that would probably go a lot better. And by make the argument I mean "Make the argument on television to the entire nation showing gestapo squads of uncoordinated people acting without any legal authority to do so trying to kidnap a citizen off the street." There might be one or two agencies there that do have the legal authority to make an arrest, (somehow I doubt that includes darpa or the cdc) but again, the complicated scenario of his dual citizenship status combined with being a powerful governmental figure in another nation likely means you would need some serious judicial backing before you actually could get away with doing that in a way that isnt clandestine. And considering how absurd this setup is, its clear nobody took the time to do anything but grab the first agent they could reach and say, 'GET DOWN THERE NOW!!!"

[Max_Killjoy]

Diplomatic immunity doesn't mean you get to sic your bodyguards on federal agents.

[Traab]

Diplomatic immunity doesn't mean you get to sic your bodyguards on federal agents.

I didnt say that it did. However, it DOES mean that you cant toss that person in jail, not without triggering all sorts of unfortunate consequences. In general the main thing you can do is expel them from your country. Combine that with him not actually having any criminal activity taking place in the US or even directly against US interests and they have even less justification for any attempt to arrest him anyways. This is also at best an information grab, not a criminal detainment process so they both cant and wont try to stop him from leaving if he so desires. Basically, at this stage he has already established they have no authority over him AND they have no way to enforce an attempt to exert authority over him anyways due to his bodyguards being present. They are basically paparazzi in suits to him.

Officially and legally they cant throw him in jail. Unofficially they cant throw him in jail because if they try it will end badly for them as he just established that beyond legal protection, he has physical protection and if they make a play for him he will not just vanish into their custody while they spin whatever official national security blather they want. Instead they will fail and that failure will likely be made very public, causing massive issues for them, their departments, and everyone in charge up to and including the president because holy *&^^& they just tried to snatch and grab a foreign diplomat! No matter how complicated his exact legal standing may be, thats just bad optics all around on an international level.

[lord_khaine]

Well funny enough. This -is- likely one of the few occations where snatching Deus and stuffing him into a dark hole for a weak or two would be worth the effort.
His dual status does mess his diplomatic immunity up enough that they could likely get away with just holding back Deus the citizen, instead of Deus the diplomat.
A bit like his own trick with sending supers to claim land that becomes part of Galtyn.

And the potential information he posses, on alien visitors and supers, does as such make it worth the bother.
Enough so that i might think even his influence would not be enough to shield him?

Of course the snatch is that if he resists its only Archon who can arrest Deus.
And that requires Max goes along with it.

[sihnfahl]

Well funny enough. This -is- likely one of the few occations where snatching Deus and stuffing him into a dark hole for a weak or two would be worth the effort.

Not really. The ramifications ...

And the potential information he posses, on alien visitors and supers, does as such make it worth the bother.

That's where you play the public relations card. Rather than the grabby thing, you talk up the potential for problems from that particular race (that they used to be an empire that nobody liked to the point one alien race completely obliterated their home planet being a hint)... and 'invite' Deus publicly to talk about the ones that landed. Refugees from a galactic empire are still members of a former galactic empire... does their tech and behavior hint at an eventual return of said empire?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Diplomatic immunity doesn't mean you get to sic your bodyguards on federal agents.

Correct. It also does not protect you from charges of murder, espionage, piracy, etc. And you cannot foment a religious war (so no repeat of the 30 Years War), abuse public trust (say by sitting on the board of an NGO and embezzling) and you must abide by rules for public welfare (which does not include traffic regulation but does include sanitation and health, ergo the U.N. had to abide by the COVID lockdown). There are negotiations ongoing to expand this to include drug trafficking and human trafficking, plus other stuff, but they aren't in a rush.

Dual citizenship doesn't provide immunity of any kind, it just gives you the right to contact your embassy. As a U.S. citizen, Deus is legally required to obey all our laws wherever he is (even though our courts don't have jurisdiction in Galytn or most of the rest of the world).

And for reasons that can only be summarized as 'The Late Nineteenth Century", it is not just illegal but a charge of treason for a U.S. citizen to accept a position in a foreign government (at least in our world, no idea about the ARCHON-verse).

[Max_Killjoy]

And for reasons that can only be summarized as 'The Late Nineteenth Century", it is not just illegal but a charge of treason for a U.S. citizen to accept a position in a foreign government (at least in our world, no idea about the ARCHON-verse).

There's the kicker -- he can't simultaneously claim both the US citizenship, and the position in the Galtyn government that gives him diplomatic immunity.

[sihnfahl]

There's the kicker -- he can't simultaneously claim both the US citizenship, and the position in the Galtyn government that gives him diplomatic immunity.

IIRC - it's only if Galtyn does something that harms (supports terrorism / declares war against) the US. Just his presence alone as a representative of Galtyn is not a treasonous act.

He'd never hold a Fed Government position in the US, but... eh.

Ah, I almost forgot this part. The declaration has to be done with intent of relinquishing US citizenship. Which Deus probably has no intention of doing.

It's when the Diplomatic Immunity card is pulled that the lawyers REALLY get involved...

[Rogar Demonblud]

Anything involving borders gets lawyers involved. The kind that bill at rates even Deus will feel.

[Max_Killjoy]

Correct. It also does not protect you from charges of murder, espionage, piracy, etc. And you cannot foment a religious war (so no repeat of the 30 Years War), abuse public trust (say by sitting on the board of an NGO and embezzling) and you must abide by rules for public welfare (which does not include traffic regulation but does include sanitation and health, ergo the U.N. had to abide by the COVID lockdown). There are negotiations ongoing to expand this to include drug trafficking and human trafficking, plus other stuff, but they aren't in a rush.

Dual citizenship doesn't provide immunity of any kind, it just gives you the right to contact your embassy. As a U.S. citizen, Deus is legally required to obey all our laws wherever he is (even though our courts don't have jurisdiction in Galytn or most of the rest of the world).

And for reasons that can only be summarized as 'The Late Nineteenth Century", it is not just illegal but a charge of treason for a U.S. citizen to accept a position in a foreign government (at least in our world, no idea about the ARCHON-verse).

Sorry to respond twice, but do you have a cite for that last part -- posted elsewhere and got a lot of "derp everything is treason on the internet" backlash.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Given the politics ban, the most I can do is point you to the careers of people like Frederick Funston (who helped incite the Spanish-American War) and Homer Lea (Boxer Rebellion, and tried to get us into a proxy war with Britain in Afghanistan), among others (Hawaii Annexation, Philippines, etc).

[Max_Killjoy]

Given the politics ban, the most I can do is point you to the careers of people like Frederick Funston (who helped incite the Spanish-American War) and Homer Lea (Boxer Rebellion, and tried to get us into a proxy war with Britain in Afghanistan), among others (Hawaii Annexation, Philippines, etc).

Not finding anything citing either historical person accused of treason under US law.

If this was just your opinion, please say so, I have a few posts to retract elsewhere.

[Kantaki]

Meanwhile I'm just kinda disturbed and curious about what I guess is Vale in the nude.
I wonder why- and where -she dropped her (meat) suit.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Not finding anything citing either historical person accused of treason under US law.

If this was just your opinion, please say so, I have a few posts to retract elsewhere.

They're the reason we now have statutory law forbidding it. And because of the politics ban I can't link or even tell you where to find that law without drawing yet another recent politics infraction for something that happened over a century ago.

[lord_khaine]

Well. We can see that Deus does indeed hold a dual citizenship.
As well as the chancellor position. Perhaps there is a loophole so it just means top economic advicor.
But at the same time, likely Galtyn is so small that the diplomatic immunity is not enough to protect Deus on its own?

Though Deus has been smart enough to layer his defence, adding in lawyers and bought politicans.

Still, Agent Spitzer absolutely cant allow himself to get intimidated over this.
Or it would set the horrible precedence that you cant detain anyone rich enough to hire a super bodyguard.

[sihnfahl]

As well as the chancellor position. Perhaps there is a loophole so it just means top economic advicor.

Deus is ... adept at politics, shall we say? He knows the loopholes to keep from running afoul of anything that could cost him his economic holdings.

But at the same time, likely Galtyn is so small that the diplomatic immunity is not enough to protect Deus on its own?

Its smallness is actually of benefit. Position it so that anything the US tries to do to Deus ends up being 'the big bad US Government is bullying a smaller country because the US lost the tech revolution brought about by alien refugees that they turned down out of xenophobia'...

Or it would set the horrible precedence that you cant detain anyone rich enough to hire a super bodyguard.

That depends if he intends to detain Deus.

The fact that the top US Super is -right there- and made no move to detain Deus despite being with him for several hours for a quiet Q&A session? He'd have a hard time casting that action as legitimate - no standing orders to detain him, or Maxima would have already done so.

[lord_khaine]

Deus is ... adept at politics, shall we say? He knows the loopholes to keep from running afoul of anything that could cost him his economic holdings.

Of course. Problem being that a loophole can be closed at a moments notice.

Its smallness is actually of benefit. Position it so that anything the US tries to do to Deus ends up being 'the big bad US Government is bullying a smaller country because the US lost the tech revolution brought about by alien refugees that they turned down out of xenophobia'...

Well.. unfortunately they can either just say "yeah.. so what? whose trade is most important to you?"
Or go with "we are acting out of concern for global security. Did you know the alien refugee's used to eat babies?"

In the same way that Deus remained certain noone would care about the countries around him.
Then im also certain noone really care about Galtyn.

I think the biggest defence for Deus there is his offer to sell "definitly not alien tech" fighters.
Cheaper to buy the tech from him than launch an invasion. At least if he is open for an exclusive contract.

That depends if he intends to detain Deus.

The fact that the top US Super is -right there- and made no move to detain Deus despite being with him for several hours for a quiet Q&A session? He'd have a hard time casting that action as legitimate - no standing orders to detain him, or Maxima would have already done so.

Why does Max matter in this regard? she is just a something-Colonel. She isnt even the head of Archon.
And Deus isnt (as far as we know) a super. So there are likely also jurisdiction issues.
Im 100% certain that even though Archon might not care, then the Federal Homeland Agency can likely still find legitimate reasons for wanting to picking Deus off the street for an interview.

As such Agent Sunglasses is actually in the right. Deus is mucking around with Aliens. Potentially being controlled by one.
And potentially knowing something about super creation. That last bit is honestly a little like claiming to know how to.. i dont know.. hack gouverment sealed records.
Build a nuklear bomb out of stuff bought on Amazon.

While Max, for all her arrogance, is more of a soldier, a thug or a field leader (depending on point of view).
Not an investigator. I think its fair to assume she is not up to the task. She should not have the required skill.
Except of course from being a main character.

[Traab]

Well. We can see that Deus does indeed hold a dual citizenship.
As well as the chancellor position. Perhaps there is a loophole so it just means top economic advicor.
But at the same time, likely Galtyn is so small that the diplomatic immunity is not enough to protect Deus on its own?

Though Deus has been smart enough to layer his defence, adding in lawyers and bought politicans.

Still, Agent Spitzer absolutely cant allow himself to get intimidated over this.
Or it would set the horrible precedence that you cant detain anyone rich enough to hire a super bodyguard.

As yoda would say, "Size matters not" If you ignore diplomatic immunity for anyone, it will cause a massive chain reaction in the international community because you are flat out saying, "If I feel I am bigger than you, i dont have to obey international law when dealing with you." Thats the kind of thing that causes other nations to hold or boot YOUR diplomats in protest just to remind you that civilized behavior is all that keeps war from breaking out over stuff like this.

As for the agent, not really, its no different than if he had a squad of gun packing normal bodyguards who say, "Yeah, you aint arresting our boss right now."

[Forum Explorer]

As for the agent, not really, its no different than if he had a squad of gun packing normal bodyguards who say, "Yeah, you aint arresting our boss right now."

Which would also be a problem if you capitulated to it.

[Traab]

Which would also be a problem if you capitulated to it.

Well when your other option is to be shot trying to arrest someone under diplomatic immunity, backing off isnt a bad precedent, its logic. Only an idiot would actually try to push that situation any further. Especially when the legality of the move is murky beyond belief. He has notified them of his diplomatic immunity, has pointed out that actually trying to take him in anyway would end badly politically and professionally speaking, and now his bodyguard has made it clear that its not going to happen anyways. By far the smart move would be to call it in to his boss and let HIM figure out the next move.

[lord_khaine]

As yoda would say, "Size matters not" If you ignore diplomatic immunity for anyone, it will cause a massive chain reaction in the international community because you are flat out saying, "If I feel I am bigger than you, i dont have to obey international law when dealing with you." Thats the kind of thing that causes other nations to hold or boot YOUR diplomats in protest just to remind you that civilized behavior is all that keeps war from breaking out over stuff like this.

Unfortunately size does matter. As we saw with how Deus get away with ignoring international law.
I doubt the international community will do more than lodge some stern letters about this breach of conduct.

Well when your other option is to be shot trying to arrest someone under diplomatic immunity, backing off isnt a bad precedent, its logic. Only an idiot would actually try to push that situation any further. Especially when the legality of the move is murky beyond belief. He has notified them of his diplomatic immunity, has pointed out that actually trying to take him in anyway would end badly politically and professionally speaking, and now his bodyguard has made it clear that its not going to happen anyways. By far the smart move would be to call it in to his boss and let HIM figure out the next move.

Except Sunglasses have told Deus that with dual citizenship he is not as immune as he think.
Thats why its horrible precedence to let Deus bully law enforcement with his magical bodyguard.
Makes him get even further above the law than a normal mega wealthy person.

Edit.
The correct move for Sunglasses here is to go "nope" and try to arrest Vale for hindering an investigation.
It will fail of course. But then there are a hard case against her. Enough to get a warrant out.

edit 2 - the comic strikes back.

Well certainly cant blame Sunglasses for drawing his gun in reflex.
He did at least keep his composure to a moderate degree. But are clearly way above his head now.

Also does sound from author comments. That the diplomatic immunity stuff is mostly something Deus uses to dazzle lower level cops.

[HandofShadows]

Why do I get the idea that Max knows more about Vale than we thought she did? Max is not at all surprised at what Vale is doing here.

[Keltest]

Why do I get the idea that Max knows more about Vale than we thought she did? Max is not at all surprised at what Vale is doing here.

Deus seems like the kind of person who thinks he is far more clever than he really is. Its quite possible he spilled something about Vale to Max when he first hired her.

[lord_khaine]

I cant see any reason for why Max should know more about Vale than that she is Deus's bodyguard and a Super.

Likely just for a start, Max heard Vale speak, and so could recognise the voice.
Why should Max need any other knowledge?

[HandofShadows]

Vale isn't from Earth. And there is a member of Archon also not from Earth named Dabbler. Also Vale could have shown up on the Council's radar given her nature. Some of the Earth governments also seem to have been keeping track of aliens and Archon would certainly have access to that info at least from the US Govt.

[Kantaki]

I cant see any reason for why Max should know more about Vale than that she is Deus's bodyguard and a Super.

Likely just for a start, Max heard Vale speak, and so could recognise the voice.
Why should Max need any other knowledge?

I agree.
The shadow thing works as Deus' bodyguard, the voice is probably close enough to be at least familiar*... Not a great leap of logic to guess it's Vale. No need to know what that thing is to recognise who it is.

*And if it is only "vaguely feminine" that would still be enough for Maxima to think it might be Vale.
But I guess the voice sounds pretty similar, if only because I think there would be some comment if smoke-Vale sounded weird somehow.

[Rogar Demonblud]

By the sounds of it, Max has had to issue that threat warning before.

[Traab]

Vale is well known by max to be his bodyguard. Hearing a female voice speak was enough for her to recognize it. Also, we still havent gotten any confirmation on who or what vale really IS. Maybe she is an alien, maybe she is a creepy super, maybe she is an eldritch abomination from the third circle of the outer realms of Nazog N'brote. What im enjoying is the near sexual tension going on with vale and her earnest desire to fight maxima.