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2019-08-16, 11:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
Dragon's Soul Homebrew Class Review
Hello All!
This is my first attempt at making a homebrew class. I don't have the fluff for it written up yet, but it's a racial class for Dragonborn with particularly potent dragon heritage. Please review and let me know what you think, if it's too OP in some places or what modifications I can make. Please be constructive.
Thanks so much for your time and comments!
version 0.3 updated based of feedback recieved so far is live here please review when you have a chance. Let me know if you think I've over corrected on the breath weapon upgrades.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...VOdlNBN1FNMHNvLast edited by TheClaimer; 2019-08-20 at 02:58 PM. Reason: updated file
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2019-08-17, 08:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2019
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- Iceland
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Re: Dragon's Soul Homebrew Class Review
This is the class I didn't know I wanted, but definitely needed.
I'm not good at balancing classes, but I can point out a few things that immediately jump out at me. Hopefully you get more detailed analyzes from someone more used to balancing classes than me.
Unarmored Defense: I don't know why it is, but isn't this normally a 2nd level feature? I'm just assuming the developers set that precedent for a reason.
Sharp Claws: The phrasing is non-standard, but very clear. Do your claws have the light property? I think you could reword this feature, to make it just a bit clearer and easy-to-read.
Draconic Evolution: 26 words before the first period is not good writing. I have a feeling this is going to be a theme. It's easier to introduce 3rd party content to a player if the format is familiar to what he is used to. Please look at existing features to make it sound like it all came from the same source. This feature, for example, could use the exact same phrasing as invocations. Replacing evolutions also sound weird. There's precedent for permanent choices with cantrips. I think you should implement that here.
Draconic Path: You're missing the part between Ability Score Improvements and Draconic Evolution where you explain that the player chooses a path at 3rd level.Dragon Soul: The phrasing is again very weird and unprecedented. It doesn't bother me, but is likely to bother players who are used to official content. You are basically giving granting the the warlock's spellcasting class feature with a twist, treat it as such. I love Sheer Will, so thematic!
Dragon Mind: So Soul gains 1 spell per short rest and Mind gains... skills? The 7th level feature seems fine however.
Dragon's Might: This seems fine.
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2019-08-17, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
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- Where I live.
Re: Dragon's Soul Homebrew Class Review
Unarmored Defense is always a first level feature. Otherwise Monks would be very sad.
EDIT: I had a more in-depth review here, but my browser interpreted backspace as "go to previous page".
Basically, I don't see what you're going to do in a fight unless you take the caster subclass. You're an incredibly weak melee combatant that's pushed towards being unarmed and unarmored. The Dragonborn's breath weapon still scales very poorly, so that'll maybe be useful for a few levels, tops.
On the other hand, someone who takes the Path of the Dragon's Soul and then only takes Bottomless Fire is the most broken half-caster in the game. 13 5th level spell slots per short rest, spells cherry-picked from different lists, tons of cantrips...
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2019-08-17, 09:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2017
Re: Dragon's Soul Homebrew Class Review
Did I miss the part where it tells proficiencies, hit die, saves etc?
Wording on Unarmored Defense needs review. Currently your AC caps at 10. You may want to make it “Your scales toughen, continuing to harden as you age, granting you an AC of 10+your Con+Cha when not wearing armor.” Though I would probably make it Dex and Cha or Dex and Con. Also need to decide if they can retain the benefit with a shield.
Magical nature might want to read “attacks with natural weapons and unarmed attacks” since they’re apparently not the same thing to some people.
Dragon Apotheosis needs some clarification. As is it appears to increase your size and HP for 10 hours/rest since it only references taking their form and hit dice (probably want to make that HP not HD).
I think you were going for a Wildshape like ability in which case you have to mention the whole “use the creature’s statblock with the following exceptions, your retain your own int, wis, Cha, and skill proficiencies. The Dragon Shape loses any Shapechange trait (since it turns into you already).
Dragon Soul seems like a lot of inferred values based on maths. You might want to just make a chart like Eldritch knight or Arcane trickster do.
Language needs tightening up since you don’t seem to have slots, trading breaths, but some features reference spending slots. And having spell slots referenced on the main table is confusing.
Also, you need to name the spell lists they can pull from.
Dragon Mind path looks okay I guess. I was never a fan of the Draconic Sorc capstone.
Draconic Might Path: Class does not really support use of weapons or armor and the level 20 feature negates both, so a fighting style seems a poor choice unless you’re MCing.
Draconic Rage... feels out of place in this class, I’d LEGO some of these traits into other ones and try to think of something else.
Superior form, might want your elemental resist to upgrade to Immunity.
I think that whole path needs a rework. You might want to focus on Draconic features, here’s a rough take:
Spoiler
3rd: Draconic Vigor- you gain the Powerful Build trait and HP increase by 3 and 1 per level in this class
7th: Dragonoid- your limbs subtly change proportion and your neck elongates like that of a dragon in your line. at the beginning of each round you can decide to assume a more dragonlike stance. If you do you gain a bonus to your move speeds equal to 5 x your Proficiency bonus and Reach with attacks on your turn, you lose the benefits of this stance if you are knocked prone or do not have a free hand to stabilize yourself. You can attack with natural weapons normally in this stance.
10th: Brutal Breath- in your Dragonoid stance your breath weapon damage dice increase to d8s. When ever you roll initiative and have no uses of your breath, you regain 1 use.
15th: Draconic Savagery: when you hit a single target with two claw attacks on your turn you can tear a target’s flesh for an additional d8 slashing damage
18th: Superior Form- you regain HP when you’re at less that 50% and your Elemental resist becomes Immunity
Evolutions:
Bite Evolution should probably require you to take the Attack action to trigger it and needs a damage die. I’d also recommend a bonus d4 of their breath damage. These guys cap at 3 attacks/round and don’t use equipment, you’ll want some buffs.
Enhanced senses... is fine, I might make it “you can make perception checks using a bonus action or reaction. When you do you gain the benefit of blindsense 30 ft. Similar to the dragons legendary Detect action.
Not bad overall. I’d probably put Apotheosis at 11 with a Wyrmling, have it improve to Young at 16. It’s such a defining feature that completely changes the way the class plays, seems a shame to leave it like Tantalus’ grapes.
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2019-08-17, 10:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
Re: Dragon's Soul Homebrew Class Review
Thanks! This is something I've had in the back of my head for a while now and finally sat down yesterday to put it all down on paper, mostly because a friend of mine is planning on running an evil campaign and I think its about high time I play test this little gem. I have more evolutions to come, want to add more options and all that can expand certain play styles, like something to incentivize using the unarmed strikes over weapons for example.
Unarmored Defense: I don't know why it is, but isn't this normally a 2nd level feature? I'm just assuming the developers set that precedent for a reason.
Sharp Claws: The phrasing is non-standard, but very clear. Do your claws have the light property? I think you could reword this feature, to make it just a bit clearer and easy-to-read.
Draconic Evolution: 26 words before the first period is not good writing. I have a feeling this is going to be a theme. It's easier to introduce 3rd party content to a player if the format is familiar to what he is used to. Please look at existing features to make it sound like it all came from the same source. This feature, for example, could use the exact same phrasing as invocations. Replacing evolutions also sound weird. There's precedent for permanent choices with cantrips. I think you should implement that here.
Draconic Path: You're missing the part between Ability Score Improvements and Draconic Evolution where you explain that the player chooses a path at 3rd level.
Dragon Soul: The phrasing is again very weird and unprecedented. It doesn't bother me, but is likely to bother players who are used to official content. You are basically giving granting the the warlock's spellcasting class feature with a twist, treat it as such. I love Sheer Will, so thematic!
Dragon Mind: So Soul gains 1 spell per short rest and Mind gains... skills? The 7th level feature seems fine however.
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2019-08-17, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
Re: Dragon's Soul Homebrew Class Review
Wording had been updated. Went with Charisma since it's also the casting stat and keeps the class from trying to use too many skills at once.
Magical nature might want to read “attacks with natural weapons and unarmed attacks” since they’re apparently not the same thing to some people.
Dragon Apotheosis needs some clarification. As is it appears to increase your size and HP for 10 hours/rest since it only references taking their form and hit dice (probably want to make that HP not HD).
I think you were going for a Wildshape like ability in which case you have to mention the whole “use the creature’s statblock with the following exceptions, your retain your own int, wis, Cha, and skill proficiencies. The Dragon Shape loses any Shapechange trait (since it turns into you already).
Not bad overall. I’d probably put Apotheosis at 11 with a Wyrmling, have it improve to Young at 16. It’s such a defining feature that completely changes the way the class plays, seems a shame to leave it like Tantalus’ grapes.
Dragon Soul seems like a lot of inferred values based on maths. You might want to just make a chart like Eldritch knight or Arcane trickster do.
Language needs tightening up since you don’t seem to have slots, trading breaths, but some features reference spending slots. And having spell slots referenced on the main table is confusing.
Also, you need to name the spell lists they can pull from.
Dragon Mind path looks okay I guess. I was never a fan of the Draconic Sorc capstone.
Draconic Might Path: Class does not really support use of weapons or armor and the level 20 feature negates both, so a fighting style seems a poor choice unless you’re MCing.
Draconic Rage... feels out of place in this class, I’d LEGO some of these traits into other ones and try to think of something else.
Superior form, might want your elemental resist to upgrade to Immunity.
I think that whole path needs a rework. You might want to focus on Draconic features, here’s a rough take:
Spoiler
3rd: Draconic Vigor- you gain the Powerful Build trait and HP increase by 3 and 1 per level in this class
7th: Dragonoid- your limbs subtly change proportion and your neck elongates like that of a dragon in your line. at the beginning of each round you can decide to assume a more dragonlike stance. If you do you gain a bonus to your move speeds equal to 5 x your Proficiency bonus and Reach with attacks on your turn, you lose the benefits of this stance if you are knocked prone or do not have a free hand to stabilize yourself. You can attack with natural weapons normally in this stance.
10th: Brutal Breath- in your Dragonoid stance your breath weapon damage dice increase to d8s. When ever you roll initiative and have no uses of your breath, you regain 1 use.
15th: Draconic Savagery: when you hit a single target with two claw attacks on your turn you can tear a target’s flesh for an additional d8 slashing damage
18th: Superior Form- you regain HP when you’re at less that 50% and your Elemental resist becomes Immunity
Superior form is unchanged, I feel like immunity in dragon form is already enough, this adds an additional layer of toughness.
Evolutions:
Bite Evolution should probably require you to take the Attack action to trigger it and needs a damage die. I’d also recommend a bonus d4 of their breath damage. These guys cap at 3 attacks/round and don’t use equipment, you’ll want some buffs.
Enhanced senses... is fine, I might make it “you can make perception checks using a bonus action or reaction. When you do you gain the benefit of blindsense 30 ft. Similar to the dragons legendary Detect action.
I've also added another evolution to help incentivize claws over weapons called rending claws. Adds charisma modifier elemental damage to claw attacks increasing their damage.
Tactical break provides more breath weapon shape options.
I've also reworked to breath weapon damage to be on par with a fireball. It is generally inferior to the fireball spell due to reduced range and worse "shape" but has equivalent damage.
Any thoughts or ideas on things I can do better in the mind path would be appreciated as well. The new file will be uploaded shortly.
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2019-08-18, 04:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2017
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- US
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Re: Dragon's Soul Homebrew Class Review
Sharp Claws should probably clarify if it merely allows the use of Dex or grants the finesse property to natural weapons/unarmed strikes. (See the auto-crit combo below for more).
Path of the dragon's soul shows full warlock spellcasting. If the base class is at all usable, bring that down to 1/3 pact magic. (I'm assuming that condition is what you want).
Alter Self has no associated level, despite being listed under the Path of the Dragon’s Mind. I suspect it was meant to be listed as a Draconic Evolution, in which case I suggest a level prerequisite; one at least close to when Master of Myriad Forms becomes available (15th level). You can maybe justify 9th level as the absolute lowest.
Trip Attack is kind of odd, due to the existing Shove action:
Originally Posted by Payer Handbook
Grappling Claws + Bite. From only a three level dip, if you land both natural attacks, you can auto-crit on the same turn. I suggest replacing "If the opponent is grappled at the time of the bite," with "If you make a bite attack against a creature you are grappling," to make completely clear it can't count as your second attack from Grappling Claws (you attack before succeeding on the attack, but grapple/crit order on a hit is less clear). I would then like to suggest a level prerequisite for at least one of these (Probably Bite).
Suggestions for additional Evolutions:
Various Bonuses to sight
Swim speed
Climbing speed
The amphibious trait (likely at 5th or 7th level).
Special, status inducing breaths like the metallics have (as separate evolutions). These should probably be limited to high levels, and once/rest.
White dragon's Ice Walk
Stolen from 4th edition, allow the PC to make a breath attack as a reaction the first time they drop below half health (refreshes on a rest).
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2019-08-19, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
Re: Dragon's Soul Homebrew Class Review
This has been slightly reworded to more closely match the Monk's martial arts feature, which it is based off of. I suspect they don't say it has finesse instead because unarmed strikes do not use weapons.
Path of the dragon's soul shows full warlock spellcasting. If the base class is at all usable, bring that down to 1/3 pact magic. (I'm assuming that condition is what you want).
Alter Self has no associated level, despite being listed under the Path of the Dragon’s Mind. I suspect it was meant to be listed as a Draconic Evolution, in which case I suggest a level prerequisite; one at least close to when Master of Myriad Forms becomes available (15th level). You can maybe justify 9th level as the absolute lowest.
Trip Attack is kind of odd, due to the existing Shove action:
I suggest having it make the PC count as one size larger for the purposes to knocking a creature prone, and to let the PC make shove attempts as a bonus action. That way the player doesn't need to learn new rules for how this shove works. Also, is there a reason it has a level prerequisite instead of requiring Prehensile Tail?
Grappling Claws + Bite. From only a three level dip, if you land both natural attacks, you can auto-crit on the same turn. I suggest replacing "If the opponent is grappled at the time of the bite," with "If you make a bite attack against a creature you are grappling," to make completely clear it can't count as your second attack from Grappling Claws (you attack before succeeding on the attack, but grapple/crit order on a hit is less clear). I would then like to suggest a level prerequisite for at least one of these (Probably Bite).
Suggestions for additional Evolutions:
Various Bonuses to sight
Swim speed
Climbing speed
The amphibious trait (likely at 5th or 7th level).
Special, status inducing breaths like the metallics have (as separate evolutions). These should probably be limited to high levels, and once/rest.
White dragon's Ice Walk
Stolen from 4th edition, allow the PC to make a breath attack as a reaction the first time they drop below half health (refreshes on a rest).
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2019-08-19, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2017
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- US
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Re: Dragon's Soul Homebrew Class Review
The number of spell slots is listed as the full progression, which is why I misread it. You should still reduce both that and the spell level to 1/3, same as the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster have. Considering this is a Path feature, it really should act like those.
Weakening Breath and Paralyzing breath are missing the level requirement, and I'd push Paralyzing breath back to 18th level. Note that Hold Monster requires concentration and can't hit multiple targets as regularly.
In contrast I'd drop Repulsing breath down to 12th level, so there isn't as big a clump of evolutions at 15th.
Dragon's Eyes should have a radius it applies in, and I'd also push it back to 18th. Alternatively, you could grant darkvision or the effects of the See Invisibility spell well before 15th level. That could also be a prerequisite for Dragon's Eyes, given how insanely strong Truesight is. In comparison, True Seeing is a 6th level spell and lasts 1/24 the time.
I missed this before, but Tactical Breath says the breath can be "centered on your target," which isn't clear. If that isn't supposed to read "centered on yourself," I would say "centered on a target within X feet of you."
I would standardize ability score requirements with existing material, and make the prerequisite 13th level.
Overall I think this class is really cool flavor wise. There's just some wonky stuff from the way Invocations/Evolutions work.
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2019-08-20, 02:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
Re: Dragon's Soul Homebrew Class Review
So looking over this I see my big mistake. I was basing everything off of half caster classes instead of the third caster subclasses. The entire subclass has been reworked to be based off the sorcerer spell casting instead of warlock since there aren't really any warlock style examples. I've also reworked some of the features to improve flavor and adjust based on the third caster sublcass instead. so now at 15th level class gets upgrades to the familiar and can use a pseudodragon familiar in ways no other class can, and now the 20th level capstone is an upgraded version of the wizards spell mastery since it comes at 20 instead of 18.
Weakening Breath and Paralyzing breath are missing the level requirement, and I'd push Paralyzing breath back to 18th level. Note that Hold Monster requires concentration and can't hit multiple targets as regularly.
In contrast I'd drop Repulsing breath down to 12th level, so there isn't as big a clump of evolutions at 15th.
Dragon's Eyes should have a radius it applies in, and I'd also push it back to 18th. Alternatively, you could grant darkvision or the effects of the See Invisibility spell well before 15th level. That could also be a prerequisite for Dragon's Eyes, given how insanely strong Truesight is. In comparison, True Seeing is a 6th level spell and lasts 1/24 the time.
I missed this before, but Tactical Breath says the breath can be "centered on your target," which isn't clear. If that isn't supposed to read "centered on yourself," I would say "centered on a target within X feet of you."
I would standardize ability score requirements with existing material, and make the prerequisite 13th level.
Overall I think this class is really cool flavor wise. There's just some wonky stuff from the way Invocations/Evolutions work.Last edited by TheClaimer; 2019-08-20 at 02:54 PM.
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2019-08-21, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2019
Re: Dragon's Soul Homebrew Class Review
Double post to bump as well as keep separate from feedback for organizations sake.
so right now it looks like I have the martial and magical subclasses nailed down pretty good. I'm really hoping now to get some feedback on the social subclass, path of the dragon's mind. I feel like it's a little on the under-powered/lackluster side and am looking for ideas on how to spruce it up a bit.
Also I'll be playtesting this class here starting in the next week or so. I've never really tested a homebrew class before, and was hoping for a little advice on things to watch out for or to make sure to do so I can give it a good thorough testing.
I really do appreciate everyone's feedback and help so far and upcoming. I've been on other sites and reddit and everyone here is just so much more polite and helpful than what I'm used to it's great!