Half- orc children with other races

[george moshingt]

So my question is pretty simple, but I suppose the implications are a bit different. I finished running a campaign a while back, and I'm DMing a new campaign that's a sequel to the last one. One of my players in the first game played a half-orc barbarian who had a relationship with a hobgoblin women that led to a child. Through some crazy means he was shrunken down to half his size and eventually became romantically involved and eventually married a gnome woman.

So in the sequel series the original player wants to play as the first child whose father is a half-orc and mother a hobgoblin. A second player wants to play his half brother whose father is a half-orc and mother a gnome.

I understand that there is no rules for this in 5e but as a DM I have always tried to rule things and change things for story and fun rather than strictly following the books.

So how would you set up these character racial traits? what kind of appearances would they have? Specifically for the half gnome would it be size small or medium?
Any opinions would be much appreciated.

[LibraryOgre]

My inclination would be to take one of the two races as a base (in the first case, I'd probably go with the half-orc, since it's better developed than the hobgoblin; in the second, with the gnome, since it has subraces), and swap in features from the other race.

So, my half-hobgoblin would start as a half-orc in build, but I might swap out Relentless Attack with Saving Face (VGtM p 119) and Menacing with Martial Training (VGtM p 119), representing someone who had some half-orc traits but was raised among hobgoblins.

For my half-gnome, I'd start with a gnome (since I'm assuming he wants to be small in size), and ditch the subrace traits, and essentially make a new subrace out of half-orc traits... +1 to strength, Relentless Endurance, and Menacing, for example, to show that I'm still a bit orc-y on this gnome chasis.

[ZorroGames]

My inclination would be to take one of the two races as a base (in the first case, I'd probably go with the half-orc, since it's better developed than the hobgoblin; in the second, with the gnome, since it has subraces), and swap in features from the other race.

So, my half-hobgoblin would start as a half-orc in build, but I might swap out Relentless Attack with Saving Face (VGtM p 119) and Menacing with Martial Training (VGtM p 119), representing someone who had some half-orc traits but was raised among hobgoblins.

For my half-gnome, I'd start with a gnome (since I'm assuming he wants to be small in size), and ditch the subrace traits, and essentially make a new subrace out of half-orc traits... +1 to strength, Relentless Endurance, and Menacing, for example, to show that I'm still a bit orc-y on this gnome chasis.

Really nice! I like this especially the half-gnome half-orc bit.

[RedMage125]

As distasteful as this book otherwise was, I do seem to recall that the 3e 3rd party supplement Book of Erotic Fantasy did have a section on inter-racial breeding.

[Chronos]

Does 5e have the Mongrelfolk race? In 3e, they were a race that was basically all of the humanoid races mushed up together so much that nobody could tell what their ancestry was. IIRC, they got an extra-large boost to Con, and qualified for anything that required a particular humanoid race.

[greenstone]

In my upcoming game (Greyhawk set), I have made it that children of half-orcs are always orcs (because of Luthic's Blessing). It gives an even bigger social stigma to the race.

[Chronos]

That gets weird, when you have half-orcs to begin with. Orc + human = half-orc. Half-orc + human = orc.

[deljzc]

I'm of the opinion there is something special about "humans" that lets them breed with a wide variety of demihuman and huminoid options, partly because of the lore of how they were created last in the sequence of most theology in the D&D world.

All the other races are distinct and separate species and can't interbreed. No elves and orcs. No dwarves and gnomes. No elves and gnomes. No dwarves and goblinoids. Et. al.

In the humanoid world, I would keep Orcs/Ogres (maybe Giants) in the same group and Goblinoids in the same group and Kobolds (Dragon) in the same group. No breeding between those species groups.

Demons/Devils can probably breed with anything. I might allow Dragonborn to breed with Kobolds since both supposedly have dragon blood.

Also, if the mother is different SIZE class than the father scaled down (so if the mother was a Small class and the father was a Medium class), than I would probably make it very unlikely or the mother is always killed in childbirth. So even though a halfling and human could make a baby if the crossbreed is carried by a halfling mother, it would almost certainly not work and/or kill the mother in childbirth. There is just no way a halfling 40-45 lbs could carry a partly human baby to term.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm of the opinion there is something special about "humans" that lets them breed with a wide variety of demihuman and huminoid options, partly because of the lore of how they were created last in the sequence of most theology in the D&D world.

I adopt the KISS principle. Stopping at Half Elf and Half Orc simplifies things. Now we have "dragon born" (dragons can apparently breed with a lot of different things) ahd Half Dragons as an NPC/Monster template. I had a DM back in AD&D 1e who decided that half elves and half orcs were like mules: sterile half breeds. This simplified his world building scheme and the longer I think about it, the more I like it. It also lent some credence to why they were adventurers: they'd not likely be able to establish a home and a family, so they tended to have no settled abode ... anyhoo, it worked for that campaign.

I'd suggest that one hand wave real world genetics and pick a base race and back that up by "Deity X has blessed this child with being a (Orc, Bugbear, Gnome, Dwarf) whatever and leave it at that.

There is just no way a halfling 40-45 lbs could carry a partly human baby to term.

Without magic. Oh, wait, don't we have magic in D&D? I do agree with your general theme there.

[EggKookoo]

That gets weird, when you have half-orcs to begin with. Orc + human = half-orc. Half-orc + human = orc.

It depends on how you see it working. In a pure genetics sense, it's not impossible. Neither I nor my wife is a redhead, but our daughter is. We both have redheads in our families, so the genetics are there. Also, there's more to your appearance and biology than genetics. Development (in the womb) plays a large role. A "half orc" might just genetically be a full orc, but exposure to human hormones for nine months resulted in it having a somewhat more human appearance and temperament. I guess if the mother is an orc, then the "half orc" child would appear more fully orc-ish. Given the unfortunate source of most half-orcs in the conventional setting, the mother is probably more often the human.

Also, in D&D, crossbreeding almost certainly has a magical element to it, unless you or your DM has decided that orcs, elves, and humans are genetically the same species. In which case there should be all kinds of gradient blending going on.

So even though a halfling and human could make a baby if the crossbreed is carried by a halfling mother, it would almost certainly not work and/or kill the mother in childbirth. There is just no way a halfling 40-45 lbs could carry a partly human baby to term.

IRL women with Dwarfism can carry non-Dwarfism babies to term, but usually cannot deliver vaginally. There are often other health complications but it's not usually life-threatening. A halfling mother might need extra medical assistance (perhaps even magical) and would need a c-section, but should be able to do it in most cases. I imagine it wouldn't happen much "in the wild" but if your halfling was living in civilization it's a different situation.

[ZorroGames]

Sigh this discussion has gone on since Elrond and Elros if not longer. 🙄

You want simple? No cross breeding period. No half anything characters. One 0D&D DM had a campaign run that way and nobody really lost anything PC wise. Even less of an issue if you play 5e in homebrew style I suspect.

[DataNinja]

Now we have "dragon born" (dragons can apparently breed with a lot of different things) ahd Half Dragons as an NPC/Monster template.

Strictly speaking "dragonborn" aren't really 'born from dragons' - it's a bit of an odd misnomer. They're more a separate species that happens to share a lot of the same characteristics (scales, laying eggs, a bunch of different colours relating to different elements...). If you're a humanoid that mates with a dragon, you'll get a half-dragon (and probably some sorcerers later), not a dragonborn.

/tangent

[ZorroGames]

Strictly speaking "dragonborn" aren't really 'born from dragons' - it's a bit of an odd misnomer. They're more a separate species that happens to share a lot of the same characteristics (scales, laying eggs, a bunch of different colours relating to different elements...). If you're a humanoid that mates with a dragon, you'll get a half-dragon (and probably some sorcerers later), not a dragonborn.

/tangent

I agree but half dragons should only come from colors that can assume a (vaguely) humanoid form IMO though.

[EggKookoo]

You want simple? No cross breeding period. No half anything characters. One 0D&D DM had a campaign run that way and nobody really lost anything PC wise. Even less of an issue if you play 5e in homebrew style I suspect.

In my typical homebrew campaigns, half-elves are just another race of elves. They're not cross-breeds, and even resent the "half-" label. I don't get a lot of half-orc players but I would probably do the same for them.

In my new setting, all non-human PC races are just mutations that crop up from time to time within the population.

[LibraryOgre]

Strictly speaking "dragonborn" aren't really 'born from dragons' - it's a bit of an odd misnomer. They're more a separate species that happens to share a lot of the same characteristics (scales, laying eggs, a bunch of different colours relating to different elements...). If you're a humanoid that mates with a dragon, you'll get a half-dragon (and probably some sorcerers later), not a dragonborn.

/tangent

Which can lead to the fun of a half-dragon-dragonborn dragon sorcerer.

One more dragon in there and you finish your punchcard!

[Arkhios]

Which can lead to the fun of a half-dragon-dragonborn dragon sorcerer.

One more dragon in there and you finish your punchcard!

Find a way to get yourself a Pseudodragon familiar!

[LibraryOgre]

Find a way to get yourself a Pseudodragon familiar!

Half-dragon dragonborn dragon sorcerer with a dip of Chain Pact Celestial Warlock (Patron: Bahamut), with a pseudodragon familiar.

[Sigreid]

I would have them just be half orcs.

[RedMage125]

Half-dragon dragonborn dragon sorcerer with a dip of Chain Pact Celestial Warlock (Patron: Bahamut), with a pseudodragon familiar.

Punchcard filled! You get a free dragon!

*A terrible roar is heard and a massive shadow blocks out the sun*

[strangebloke]

Keep it simple:

Orcs, humans, elves, halflings, gnomes, and dwarves all can have kids together. But most of them don't produce half-breeds. The race of the child is the race of the mother, or something similar. Orc/Elf and Orc/Human offspring are Half-Orcs. Human/Elf children are Half-Elves. Tieflings and Genasi and whatever else are essentially humans with weird magic on them so you treat them as such.

Goblinoids can all have kids with each other, with the child being one of the races of its parents.

More inhuman races like Dragonborn and Aaracockra can't interbreed at all.

Done and done

OR you could rework how races work from the ground up because TBH it makes things way simpler. Quick version of how things work in my setting:

• Greyskins: Orcs, giants, goliaths, goblinoids. Every greyskin is born a goblin but based on environment as they grow up they can become any type of greyskin. Half-Orcs are just greyskins raised in human settlements. Orcs are chaotic evil because if they weren't they wouldn't have turned into orcs.
• Redbloods: Halfings, Dwarves, Gnomes, Elves, humans, Genasi, etc. All come from a common ancestor in the past but diverged due to using lots of magic (elves, tieflings) or simply genetics (dwarves, halflings.) Technically there are 'half-dwarves' but the differences are small enough that you character can be represented by whatever stat line you choose.
• Scalebacks: Dragonborn, Kobolds, Lizardmen. Races artificially created by dragons for their own purposes. Kobolds are farmers and workers, Dragonborn are nobility, diplomats, servants, and administrators.
• Beastmen: Centaurs, Minotaurs, Aaracockra, etc. Strange creatures made through deliberate or accidental use of magic.

[Tetrasodium]

So my question is pretty simple, but I suppose the implications are a bit different. I finished running a campaign a while back, and I'm DMing a new campaign that's a sequel to the last one. One of my players in the first game played a half-orc barbarian who had a relationship with a hobgoblin women that led to a child. Through some crazy means he was shrunken down to half his size and eventually became romantically involved and eventually married a gnome woman.

So in the sequel series the original player wants to play as the first child whose father is a half-orc and mother a hobgoblin. A second player wants to play his half brother whose father is a half-orc and mother a gnome.

I understand that there is no rules for this in 5e but as a DM I have always tried to rule things and change things for story and fun rather than strictly following the books.

So how would you set up these character racial traits? what kind of appearances would they have? Specifically for the half gnome would it be size small or medium?
Any opinions would be much appreciated.

If it were me I'd be pretty skeptical & probably say no out of concern there is some loophole I don't see, but if I were inclined to allow either or both I'd just say "ok pick half orc/goblin/gnome & call it whatever you want but you use the stats & racial feats/unlocks/etc of the race you choose with no blending"

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I'm with Mark Hall on this one. These custom characters you create won't handle any more difficult than other characters, they won't be overpowered, they just take more time to create, and the cool idea is worth it. This is exactly why you play a tabletop RPG while perfectly good computerized games are available.

Just have some things clear before you start playing or at the first time they come up, like as what race do these guys count for stuff like a ranger's favored enemy? (I'd say the mother's race makes sense, since these guys are only one quarter orc and human each.)

[LibraryOgre]

I'm with Mark Hall on this one. These custom characters you create won't handle any more difficult than other characters, they won't be overpowered, they just take more time to create, and the cool idea is worth it. This is exactly why you play a tabletop RPG while perfectly good computerized games are available.

Just have some things clear before you start playing or at the first time they come up, like as what race do these guys count for stuff like a ranger's favored enemy? (I'd say the mother's race makes sense, since these guys are only one quarter orc and human each.)

I'd also lean towards the mother's race, though partially because of training... they seem to have been raised by their mothers, likely in their mothers cultures, meaning they'd fight more like their mother's people than their father's.

[strangebloke]

I'd also lean towards the mother's race, though partially because of training... they seem to have been raised by their mothers, likely in their mothers cultures, meaning they'd fight more like their mother's people than their father's.

Also sidesteps the "giant halforc born of halfling" issue.