Ability Score Candies

[Bartmanhomer]

If you did, I think we all missed it. I believe most of us are still wondering what your decision is on:

1. Type of bonus
2. Duration of bonus
3. Price

A few posts ago you mentioned changing the cost to 10,000 gp for a permanent version and 5,000 gp for a temporary version. These seem to be priced such that you'd have a hard time finding any buyers, when you compare them to other things in the game that people could buy to increase stats. Also, they both still need a type for the bonus.

The type of bonus is the one that stacked and the duration will last a whole day.

[Trandir]

The type of bonus is the one that stacked and the duration will last a whole day.

So untyped bonus? If that's the case these items are broken.

Also 5000 gp for a +1 for a day is so overpriced that no one will ever consider buying one.

[Bartmanhomer]

So untyped bonus? If that's the case these items are broken.

Also 5000 gp for a +1 for a day is so overpriced that no one will ever consider buying one.

I couldld cut the price in half so that will be a fair price that everybody could afford (especial in mid to high levels.)

[El'the Ellie]

Thank you! That's specific enough now that I feel like we can confidently give our opinions.

---

A 24 hr +1 untyped to ability scores, hm... I'm not going to lie, correctly pricing this item is like threading a needle. I think it can be done - I think there is a price that makes this reasonable - I just don't know where to begin.

A few things to note: Whatever the price, you're going to run into the idea that someone with infinite money can pump their stats through the roof. This might not be an issue regarding your PC's (they won't have infinite money) but some other NPC's might be in a different situation. A greedy or evil ruler has very good justification for controlling those who can create these, and inevitably an evil person with power will eventually find out about them. If they take a long time to make, said ruler would attempt to gather many crafters. If they required rare resources, those resources would immediately be in high demand and fought over like diamonds (Perhaps oil is a better real world example). Keep in mind that eating just eight of these at a time would make you smarter (or stronger) than any human currently alive. What happens if I have a hundred?
Make a thousand pieces of candy. Consume them all in a day. Become god.

Potential balancing factors: perhaps they 'go bad' after a certain amount of time. Maybe two days or so? This would make it significantly harder to hoard, while still allowing them to be decently common.
Perhaps they are toxic in large quantities? 3-4 per day and you might be fine. 7-8, you're playing with fire. 9 or more might as well be a death sentence.
Having them be made from something that brings up moral complications (like, say, unicorn blood) could be interesting. But that would make them not as common as it sounds like you're imagining, and evil characters wouldn't care: it would just give them reason to farm unicorns. (Although what if unicorns could only thrive in Good environments, rendering 'farms' impossible. Then your evil dude would have to hunt wild unicorns or get unwitting lackeys to raise them. This sounds like the delectable beginnings of a plot.)

I'm getting off topic.

---

Without any of the stipulations I mentioned above, my gut and opinion says to price them at around... 1,000 gp each. As a player, I can see buying 6-8 and hanging on to them for a big power boost once when I really need it. But 8,000 gp is a serious investment and means I'm not getting something nice, like an extra weapon or armor ability. Although I would say you should downright plan for the day the party's Chaotic Neutral rogue attempts to rob a store of them.

Oooh, an under-guarded shop filled with useful, valuable things that I can easily slip into my pockets that I can get rid of in a moment's notice? I'll take advantage of the 5-finger discount. Heck, if you can get to the actual candies, you might be able to punch/lie your way out even if you get caught, thanks to said strength or charisma candy.

Also, the idea of stealing a bunch of wisdom candies, getting caught, and then eating them all to figure out what to do is hilarious:

Spoiler

Show

[Bartmanhomer]

Thank you! That's specific enough now that I feel like we can confidently give our opinions.

---

A 24 hr +1 untyped to ability scores, hm... I'm not going to lie, correctly pricing this item is like threading a needle. I think it can be done - I think there is a price that makes this reasonable - I just don't know where to begin.

A few things to note: Whatever the price, you're going to run into the idea that someone with infinite money can pump their stats through the roof. This might not be an issue regarding your PC's (they won't have infinite money) but some other NPC's might be in a different situation. A greedy or evil ruler has very good justification for controlling those who can create these, and inevitably an evil person with power will eventually find out about them. If they take a long time to make, said ruler would attempt to gather many crafters. If they required rare resources, those resources would immediately be in high demand and fought over like diamonds (Perhaps oil is a better real world example). Keep in mind that eating just eight of these at a time would make you smarter (or stronger) than any human currently alive. What happens if I have a hundred?
Make a thousand pieces of candy. Consume them all in a day. Become god.

Potential balancing factors: perhaps they 'go bad' after a certain amount of time. Maybe two days or so? This would make it significantly harder to hoard, while still allowing them to be decently common.
Perhaps they are toxic in large quantities? 3-4 per day and you might be fine. 7-8, you're playing with fire. 9 or more might as well be a death sentence.
Having them be made from something that brings up moral complications (like, say, unicorn blood) could be interesting. But that would make them not as common as it sounds like you're imagining, and evil characters wouldn't care: it would just give them reason to farm unicorns. (Although what if unicorns could only thrive in Good environments, rendering 'farms' impossible. Then your evil dude would have to hunt wild unicorns or get unwitting lackeys to raise them. This sounds like the delectable beginnings of a plot.)

I'm getting off topic.

---

Without any of the stipulations I mentioned above, my gut and opinion says to price them at around... 1,000 gp each. As a player, I can see buying 6-8 and hanging on to them for a big power boost once when I really need it. But 8,000 gp is a serious investment and means I'm not getting something nice, like an extra weapon or armor ability. Although I would say you should downright plan for the day the party's Chaotic Neutral rogue attempts to rob a store of them.

Oooh, an under-guarded shop filled with useful, valuable things that I can easily slip into my pockets that I can get rid of in a moment's notice? I'll take advantage of the 5-finger discount. Heck, if you can get to the actual candies, you might be able to punch/lie your way out even if you get caught, thanks to said strength or charisma candy.

Also, the idea of stealing a bunch of wisdom candies, getting caught, and then eating them all to figure out what to do is hilarious:

Spoiler

Show

Thank you for your input. Well there are drawbacks. If you eat more than 5 of these candies. (More than 5 Strength candies for example) if will give you bodily functions side effects such as rotting your teeth, stomach ache, cause you hyper. Or in rare cases caused insanity or transform into a different race (such as a human transforms into an Orc) So there are drawbacks which eating too much of these candies.

[ThanatosZero]

That reminds me of the NZT pills from the movie and series Limitless.

NZT in the movie/series grants you for 24 hours absolute conscious control over your brain and any function possible. Users of the drug remember retro-actively everything, like they had photographic memory.

Also, this has effect on dexterity and awareness, as all senses are hightened to their peak.

There are nasty drawbacks with the pill though, after 24 hours pass.

[JeenLeen]

I thought untyped only doesn't stack with itself if it's not the same source. Thus, an untyped +1 from a Strength candy wouldn't stack with itself, so eating 10 candies would give +1 just like eating one candy.

Is that mistaken?

I think the Tomes either were an exception or they don't stack with themselves: it's just you read a +1 tome for a net +1, then could later read a +5 tome for the a net +5. But reading both doesn't give you +6. (Though admittingly those are a specific type of bonus, so the interaction is a bit different.)

[Trandir]

I thought untyped only doesn't stack with itself if it's not the same source. Thus, an untyped +1 from a Strength candy wouldn't stack with itself, so eating 10 candies would give +1 just like eating one candy.

Is that mistaken?

I think the Tomes either were an exception or they don't stack with themselves: it's just you read a +1 tome for a net +1, then could later read a +5 tome for the a net +5. But reading both doesn't give you +6. (Though admittingly those are a specific type of bonus, so the interaction is a bit different.)

It all depends if you consider two different candies different sources the tomes do not stack since they provide the same bonus (kind of a bad thing since 5 books of +1 Str cost the same as 1 book of +5 Str).

[rel]

Tomes and the wish spell don't provide a typeless bonus, the bonus has the type 'inherent'.