OOTS #1186 - The Discussion Thread

[danielxcutter]

A train also appears here.

[hamishspence]

Eyebrows shaped like an elf wizard? I got to see that!

V has eyebrows in the appropriate shape, in the very first panel of OOTS:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html

[Deathhappens]

Actually, I think I remember something about magnetic compasses going completely haywire in the vicinity of the poles, but I'm sure Plot will happen along the way long before that becomes a problem, Bandana.

Or I guess I should say "Captain Neckerchief" now. *snicker*

[Breccia]

Indeed, there is no such thing.

Also, you can't have a railroad plot without railroads.

[Quizatzhaderac]

Elan, we're going to Magnetic Santa, not True Santa.

You can't not sit in magnetic Santa's lap.

Chlorine gas is in many respects one of the most evil forms of gas warfare, not because it's more effective, but because it's even less effective than the others.

Florine gas is significantly more stupid evil than chlorine. It was never really used as a weapon because while it's good at killing people, it not good at being sent to the enemy first.

Actually, I think I remember something about magnetic compasses going completely haywire in the vicinity of the poles, but I'm sure Plot will happen along the way long before that becomes a problem, Bandana.

As you come closer to the pole, the compass tries to point downwards in the north and upwards in the south. The dominant factor becomes the pitch the compass is held at. If you try to force the compass to be level you'll eliminate the big obvious things, but not the random little stupid things like turbulence or the positions of people on the bridge.

[Petrocorus]

All this talk about compass and poles, but it sure is more efficient to use a sextant there.

Though, you may have difficulty to find a sextant on the poles.

[bunsen_h]

I love that Belkar knows what a train sounds like, despite there being no evidence of trains in this world ;)

To be fair, the word "train" was being used to describe a line of vehicles back in our 15th century (per Wiktionary, and I remember having read similar info elsewhere). Train whistles, though, would be anachronistic so far as we know. Though Belkar's familiarity with "The Trolley Song" clearly shows that some information is creeping back across the 4th wall.

[Jasdoif]

Mm, I suppose. It depends somewhat on how busy the boss is, and how obvious it should be to me that I ought to be asking some other specific person. If I could reasonably be expected not to know who to ask (and to not have the info myself), the boss shouldn't react in that kind of way.

In this particular case, especially with the "thinking" hand-on-chin gesture, I think the crewman was like "are we going on as if nothing happened?" with respect to Andi's attempted mutiny and Bandana was like "Yes you are going to go on as if nothing happened."

[Doug Lampert]

To be fair, the word "train" was being used to describe a line of vehicles back in our 15th century (per Wiktionary, and I remember having read similar info elsewhere). Train whistles, though, would be anachronistic so far as we know. Though Belkar's familiarity with "The Trolley Song" clearly shows that some information is creeping back across the 4th wall.

Arguing whether trains are anachronistic as their airship prepares to depart strikes me as somehow off....

Just what is the assumed year for transportation tech where the powered airship isn't a bigger anachronism than a steam train?

[Fyraltari]

Arguing whether trains are anachronistic as their airship prepares to depart strikes me as somehow off....

Just what is the assumed year for transportation tech where the powered airship isn't a bigger anachronism than a steam train?

10 years after the espresso machine, but five years before heavier-than-air flying craft. Obviously.

[Doug Lampert]

10 years after the espresso machine, but five years before heavier-than-air flying craft. Obviously.

Well of course it's after espresso, we have in comic evidence that that exists.

Edited to add: In our world the espresso machine was patented in 1884, while the first heavier than air flying craft was 1903. Assumed year is thus 1894 if based on espresso or 1898 if based on heavier than air flight. The first zeppelin flight was in 1900 and was not carrying commercial passengers for a number of years after that, while commercial steam trains date to 1812 or so.

Thus in the available range of dates based on Fyraltari's claim, the airship is anachronistic, but the train reference is not. [End edits]

[DavidSh]

Well of course it's after espresso, we have in comic evidence that that exists.

That link is better evidence that V had heard of the concept of espresso than that espresso machines were actually available. Just like I can imagine a more contemporaneous character agreeing to worship a fictional deity only if it could provide practical cold fusion.

[CriticalFailure]

Providing cold fusion would greatly increase my chance of joining a religion.

[KorvinStarmast]

Providing cold fusion would greatly increase my chance of joining a religion.

Even if it's a doomsday cult? (Somewhere in GiTP/OoTS I have a vague memory of "the end is near" kind of side character but a quick check of where I think it is leaves me empty. Hmm)

[Rogar Demonblud]

Might be one of the Dragon strips.

[The MunchKING]

Even if it's a doomsday cult?

Sounds like The Church of Atom.

[Cazero]

Sounds like The Church of Atom.

HEATHEN !
The great Atom provides fission ! In great quantities ! Fission for everyone !
You get radioactive, and you get radioactive, and you get radioactive !

[Sniccups]

We don't even know that "True North" even exists in this world. Perhaps the world is stationary and the sun revolves around it. Then True North, defined by spin, wouldn't even exist (although it could be defined by the rotation of the fixed stars around the earth -- if the stars are fixed in position relative to each other).

[And it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Julio had a special compass made that always pointed to the next destination.]

There was a shot of the solar system at the end of How the Paladin Got his Scar.

We're at 1186.
I bazinga'd as well.

Hey, it’s strip 1186, and isn’t it also year 1186 in universe?

One pound of uranium isn't going to do much, no, but the thing about radioactive materials is that they possess a quality called "critical mass"- the smallest amount of material required to sustain a nuclear chain reaction.

Of course, once I started looking up some numbers, I learned that Uranium 238, the most common isotope at 99% of all naturally-occurring uranium, does not have a critical mass, and has a half life of nearly five billion years, or "roughly the age of the Earth."

Plutonium 239, however, which can be relatively easily made from Uranium 238, has a critical mass of 10 kilograms, which is a sphere almost ten centimeters in diameter. A Plutonium elemental, once killed, would almost immediately turn into a nuclear fireball that turns everything in a hundred mile radius into glass and ashes.

I think a plutonium elemental would probably irradiate that whole area, but the actual explosion would be much smaller because it was just a pile of plutonium rather than a nuclear bomb. I’m pretty sure it’s called a “fizzle”

[Petrocorus]

Sounds like The Church of Atom.

HEATHEN !
The great Atom provides fission ! In great quantities ! Fission for everyone !
You get radioactive, and you get radioactive, and you get radioactive !

This sound a bit like the cult of Aton.
Their symbol is a giant nuclear reactor, after all.

[runeghost]

Arguing whether trains are anachronistic as their airship prepares to depart strikes me as somehow off....

Just what is the assumed year for transportation tech where the powered airship isn't a bigger anachronism than a steam train?

While the first primitive steam locomotives were in use by 1820, it wasn't until the Bessemer process came along in the 1850s that sufficient quantities of quality steel for large rail networks could be mass produced. Bessemer patented his process if 1856, and the first great rail networks went up over the next decade.

Henri Giffard flew the first powered airship in 1852. So... sometime between 1852 and 1856, if you want to be technical. (Practically speaking, there wouldn't be useful airships until the early 1900s, but I was curious if there was anyway to come up with an even remotely arguable answer in the affirmative.)

[Dion]

Hey, it’s strip 1186, and isn’t it also year 1186 in universe

ohh... good catch! I bet it’s the end of the book, too!

[bunsen_h]

I think a plutonium elemental would probably irradiate that whole area, but the actual explosion would be much smaller because it was just a pile of plutonium rather than a nuclear bomb. I’m pretty sure it’s called a “fizzle”

The tricky thing about building an atomic bomb, apart from getting the materials, is designing it so that the subcritical masses are brought together quickly enough. If so, you get a fully critical mass, rather than multiple masses getting close together that are just on the edge of criticality and melt / boil / splatter and make a big mess as well as giving off quite a bit of radiation. As I understand it.

A plutonium elemental would appear to have many critical masses of plutonium, already all together, but (by your assumption) somehow prevented from exploding by virtue of being "alive". Whether you'd get a nuclear fireball or a messy dangerous toxic fizzle would depend on whether or not that explosion prevention disappeared instantaneously.

[Resileaf]

The tricky thing about building an atomic bomb, apart from getting the materials, is designing it so that the subcritical masses are brought together quickly enough. If so, you get a fully critical mass, rather than multiple masses getting close together that are just on the edge of criticality and melt / boil / splatter and make a big mess as well as giving off quite a bit of radiation. As I understand it.

A plutonium elemental would appear to have many critical masses of plutonium, already all together, but (by your assumption) somehow prevented from exploding by virtue of being "alive". Whether you'd get a nuclear fireball or a messy dangerous toxic fizzle would depend on whether or not that explosion prevention disappeared instantaneously.

As a side note, the best way to disarm a nuclear device if it can't be disarmed safely is to shoot it and destroy it so that it doesn't reach critical mass. Sure, it'll disperse radioactive material, but at least it won't detonate.

[CriticalFailure]

Even if it's a doomsday cult? (Somewhere in GiTP/OoTS I have a vague memory of "the end is near" kind of side character but a quick check of where I think it is leaves me empty. Hmm)

Sure, plus I figure cold fusion is probably helpful in averting certain Doomsday scenarios anyways.

[DougTheHead]

The tricky thing about building an atomic bomb, apart from getting the materials, is designing it so that the subcritical masses are brought together quickly enough. If so, you get a fully critical mass, rather than multiple masses getting close together that are just on the edge of criticality and melt / boil / splatter and make a big mess as well as giving off quite a bit of radiation. As I understand it.

A plutonium elemental would appear to have many critical masses of plutonium, already all together, but (by your assumption) somehow prevented from exploding by virtue of being "alive". Whether you'd get a nuclear fireball or a messy dangerous toxic fizzle would depend on whether or not that explosion prevention disappeared instantaneously.

I imagine that casting Implosion on a Plutonium elemental would create a massive nuclear explosion easily enough.

[Jasdoif]

I imagine that casting Implosion on a Plutonium elemental would create a massive nuclear explosion easily enough.

It would depend on the purity of the plutonium, same as plutonium warheads which are also detonated by implosion.

[MossyMeow]

It would depend on the purity of the plutonium, same as plutonium warheads which are also detonated by implosion.

Now I’m imagining Redcloak setting off a nuclear missile with the implosion spell.

[Fyraltari]

Now I’m imagining Redcloak setting off a nuclear missile with the implosion spell.

How does the range of Implosion compares with the blast radius of that bomb?

[MossyMeow]

How does the range of Implosion compares with the blast radius of that bomb?

The real question is, what kind of damage does a nuclear explosion deal? I feel like it would deal a large amount of radiant damage on detonation, and everyone in the blast radius would have to save vs. blindness. Then probably fire damage post-explosion, and then...I don’t know...maybe poison damage, to represent the falllout? Or some kind of disease? I know very little about 3.5 edition.

[Fyraltari]

The real question is, what kind of damage does a nuclear explosion deal? I feel like it would deal a large amount of radiant damage on detonation, and everyone in the blast radius would have to save vs. blindness. Then probably fire damage post-explosion, and then...I don’t know...maybe poison damage, to represent the falllout? Or some kind of disease? I know very little about 3.5 edition.

Nukes deal **** You damage, **** Everybody You Ever Loved Damage and **** Everything You Ever Cared About damage.