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2006-02-14, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
I love Belkar. *huggles halfling* And big YAY for the multipurpose lead sheet! ;D
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2006-02-14, 11:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2005
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- The Puppet Dimension
Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Oh, dear, I see a sudden spate of discussion on various D&D boards about the amount of damage a sheet of lead can do... :D
What a great comic! ;D"To be gorgeous and high and true and fine and fluffy and moist and sticky and lovely, all you have to do is to believe that one is gorgeous and high and true and fine and fluffy and moist and sticky and lovely, and I believe it of myself." Stephen Fry
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2006-02-14, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2005
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- Denmark
Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Priceless. Simply.
The Giant is back. ;)
~~DukeP~~
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2006-02-14, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Arizona
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Alfryd
That being said, I'm thinking that this fight now won't be resolved b a defeat/killing, but will be interupted somehow. Stupid anticlimax... grumblecakes,
Proud dictator of the miko fan club
If you wanna be cool and join the Miko Fan Club,
just put Miko in your sig and make up a position!
Ambitious lieutenant of the Miko Mafia
nuclear physicist of the Hinjo fan club
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2006-02-14, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2005
Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
What do you mean by that? That the Giant is letting Belkar win for comedic purposes or what?
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2006-02-14, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)RBloom0566Guest in the Playground
Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
All this talk about finishing Miko off while she was down from the lead sheet...not entirely accurate, I believe.
If I'm not mistaken, the most Belkar could've accomplished would've been a round or more of some wicked sneak attack damage for Miko being stunned and deprived of her Dex Bonus to AC.
A Coup de Grace' could not have been executed as "stunned" does not count as completely defenseless for purposes of finishing off a foe.
Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm sure someone will try.
GIANT -
In a word...EXCELLENT!
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2006-02-14, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Arizona
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by RBloom0566
Originally Posted by Alfryd
Proud dictator of the miko fan club
If you wanna be cool and join the Miko Fan Club,
just put Miko in your sig and make up a position!
Ambitious lieutenant of the Miko Mafia
nuclear physicist of the Hinjo fan club
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2006-02-14, 12:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Da Goof (x3)..Is On Fire!
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread - ~SPOILERS~
Simply perfect.
WANG! - had to add my two cents to the amount of WANG being displayed upon the YaBB.
Belkar has his multiple reasons, thought I suspect the giant could go many ways with this.
Spoiler
If the breaking the "detect evil" law holds true, then Miko will lose her Paladin status, and probably have to do something grand to regain such a status, such as help the OoTS protect the other gates (which may come as a results of the trial.)
If Belkar runs into the courtroom, he'l likelyl be taken prisoner again, but it will be like a criminal going to jail rather than getting shot - a way of avoiding the penalty of death.
If the statement "one must commit many evil acts in a row without any good in order to be aligned as evil" holds true, then why not for the same for good. "One must commit many good acts in a row without any evil in order to be aligned as good." If Miko does one thing that is "questionably" wrong, everyone roots for "NO PALADIN STATUS", which given that this is the Giant's playground, is not something any of us can influence. We can nitpick all we want, but the definition of Good and Evil in this playground is entirely up to the Giant. Don't get me wrong, I love what Belkar is up too, but I'm not ready to jump on the Paladin must die, or even be tortured relentlessly, wagon yet.
Wang, steal, stabby, awaken - repeat cycle as needed.
WANG! ;D
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2006-02-14, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- Denton, TX
Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Piedmon_Sama
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2006-02-14, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- Hiding in the bathroom
Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by GeekDaddy
That said, I don't see Belkar as having much of a plan in this situation--at least not any "plan" that extends beyond the next few minutes. Belkar is oriented totally around doing what is most pleasing at the immediate moment, regardless of long-term consequences. Causing Miko to lose her class abilities would be a laff and a haff, sure, but in Belkar's mind the only laughs that matter are those coming in the immediate future, and why waste time and energy planning farther ahead than that when the immediate future is going to be so much fun? He just wants to extend the challenge as long as he can, further establishing his superiority in the most meaningful way. After all, as we've seen, Belkar's only drive besides visceral pleasures is to prove himself however he can. To do that effectively, you need A) an audience, and B) a meaningful challenge. Otherwise, how will anyone ever know how awesome you are?
And, on a completely different point, has the Giant secured the rights to the "Wang" property from the Penny Arcade people? I smell a lawsuit...
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2006-02-14, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2005
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by retnuhytnuob
More to the point, he's presiding over the trial, and was forced to conclude that the defendants' right to know the charges against them overrode the necessity of keeping the secret...secret.
Presumably he is a paladin, but that wasn't an evil or even a chaotic act. It was exactly the correct thing to do.
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2006-02-14, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- Denton, TX
Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
I agree that Belkar doesn't have a set plan for exactly how he is taking down Miko. He's making it up as he goes along.
What he does have is a end goal, however. He wants Miko to suffer, and nothing can make a paladin player suffer more than losing their paladinhood. Especially when they have roleplayed the paladin to the penultimate "stick in the mud" level that Miko has been portrayed as. It is the most crushing thing that could happen to Miko, thus, the thing that Belkar would enjoy the most.
In the end, I think the railroad will get Belkar. The GM has taken great liberties (as they often have to) to get the OotS to Azure City. The storyline seems to be evolving into one where they quest to do something about these gates that hold back the snarl. And, I am sure that Miko will be sent along with them to make sure they follow through with whatever quest they are given by Lord Shojo.
The growth potential for Miko's character is immense, especially if she is forced by her lord to work with the party, and Roy is given authority over her.
If that happens, Belkar will continue to *want* to kill her for XP, but he will only say it as a matter of form, much like he does with Elan.
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2006-02-14, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- Newcastle; England
Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Just one point to those who say that Miko must be a vastly superior combatant to the OOTS, remember Roy's comment "Damn railroad plot!"
Miko could be a drunken care-bear with two levels in self humiliation and armed with only a cheese-grater of healing +3 and still kicked ass (esp off-screen) the DM (or narritive causality) knew that they must lose, so that was it for them. sad but true (and who can say we havn't all been there before).
my point is Miko and Belkar are probably evenly matched. and possably in love ::)
but then it is valentines day...Finally back after a year without the internet.....
Three cheers for civilisation!
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2006-02-14, 01:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Arizona
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Psiwave
Originally Posted by garylian
Proud dictator of the miko fan club
If you wanna be cool and join the Miko Fan Club,
just put Miko in your sig and make up a position!
Ambitious lieutenant of the Miko Mafia
nuclear physicist of the Hinjo fan club
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2006-02-14, 01:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Calgary, Alberta
Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Haha, YES!
Everybody loves OoTS's resident bastard...the eighth dwarf Stabby!!! ;DYou have no fear of me? Allow me to change that, you kind, fat snob. Hear my words and fear! I will seduce your women, drink all your ale, and leave you frolicking in the dust, happy of my visit!&&\"We should discuss this without our clothes on.\"
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2006-02-14, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2005
Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Just one point to those who say that Miko must be a vastly superior combatant to the OOTS, remember Roy's comment "Damn railroad plot!"
I'm still slightly worried that, left to themselves, one or both could end up dead, but as things are turning out, all bets are off.
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2006-02-14, 02:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Arizona
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Alfryd
Proud dictator of the miko fan club
If you wanna be cool and join the Miko Fan Club,
just put Miko in your sig and make up a position!
Ambitious lieutenant of the Miko Mafia
nuclear physicist of the Hinjo fan club
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2006-02-14, 02:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Alfryd
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2006-02-14, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
First off, Great comic!
Anyway... If Miko was knocked out would Belkar get experience for "defeating" her? If so and he knocked her out again would he get the experience again? I smell extra levels! ;D
Point of reference: http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/Gian...tscript?SK=124
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2006-02-14, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
I'd just like to make a couple of notes:
1. I would require a fortitude save for the victim of a successful called shot to the head, with DC's to beat against being stunned or knocked completely unconscious. Blows to the head do this sort of damage, it is not unreasonable.
2. It IS unreasonable to expect someone recovering from being knocked unconscious to know how long they were out, or that they were out for more than the briefest period of time.
For Miko, working with what information about Belkar that she has, it is reasonable for her to believe herself to have only been momentarily stunned/unconscious, because she's still alive. Belkar hasn't given her the slightest bit of reason to believe he would be altrusistic if she was at his mercy, and her line of reasoning is that if she is still alive after being knocked out, then he must not have had the opportunity to finish her.
3. I can conclusively say that lead does not go "WANG" even if struck with with a variety of different metals. It's too dense, and makes a variety of dull sounding clicks. (I tested this, much to the amusement of a student, on one of the lead bricks here at work.) It cannot be Miko's head making the sound, because she is similarly dense.
However "WANG" is funnier, so I'm willing to allow for artistic liscense. ;D
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2006-02-14, 02:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- Arizona
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Amalthea
To everybody out there saying, "Dude, don't worry about it, just sit back and enjoy the comic", debating trivialities is a big part of how I enjoy the comicProud dictator of the miko fan club
If you wanna be cool and join the Miko Fan Club,
just put Miko in your sig and make up a position!
Ambitious lieutenant of the Miko Mafia
nuclear physicist of the Hinjo fan club
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2006-02-14, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Maybe I came in late on this one, but...
I'm convinced Belkar is not evil. Though THE GIANT may never tell us... at most Belkar is Lawful Evil. CE or NE would've slain Miko while she sleeps.
As to the lead sheet, anyone have stats for this weapon?
d6 + stun chance DC 14? Weighs 30 lbs.
I'm sure I'm late on this discussion...
the
Blue Wizard
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2006-02-14, 02:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2005
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
He thinks fighting and tormenting Miko is FUN. There's nothing in his behaviour that tells us he's not CE.
And anyway, he's CE. The Giant has said so on numerous occasions.
Am I the only person who actually reads the whole thread?
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2006-02-14, 02:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by theKOT
I am impressed that Belkar can carry a lead sheet though, our bricks are about 4"x3"x9" and they are HEAVY. I can carry two of them at once (one in each hand), but only with extreme caution, because you do NOT want to drop one of those.
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2006-02-14, 02:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
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- Danville
Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by BlueWizard
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2006-02-14, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2005
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Back in 270 Miko tells Belkar that the temple is filled with clerics. What are the odds that at least one of them has Raise Dead or some such? Pretty good IMO.
Belkar will not get much out of killing her ... she would just come back madder than ever. However if he makes her fall ... well then that's something much worse.
Belkar is CE and his plan from the start has been to get Miko to fall. He may have an idea or two to that effect but mostly right now he is ad-libbing to make her mad for the setup.
I'm not a big fan of evil characters but Belkar is funny and Miko seems to be the "lawful stupid" stereotype that I detest in Paladins. I'm waiting with baited breath to see how this ends.
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2006-02-14, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
With various people wondering why an evil person wouldn't just slit Miko's throat, the following quote from Terry Pratchett's Men At Arms would seem to be in order:
"If you have to look along the shaft of an arrow from the wrong end, if a man has you entirely at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you are going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat. They'll watch you squirm, they'll put off the moment of murder like another man will put off a good cigar. So hope like hell you captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word."
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2006-02-14, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2005
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- Saint Louis, MO
Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
OK - part of me says "No Coup de Grace? BOOOOO!!!"
But then the other part of me says "Buwahahaha! Chaotic!"
Nuff said.(This Space for Rent)
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2006-02-14, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
I guess the pro-Miko league has to be happy that she's still with us at all. However, I'm waiting for the dedicated "OMG lvl 12 char beats lvl 16 char Rich is fudging!!!" thread. There always was one when Miko was the one coming out on top.
Having Miko as a semi-permanent addition to the party would be awesome, with plenty of spiteful repartee potential between her and Belkar. I remember when the possibility came up a while back, someone suggested a Geas be cast on Miko to make her get along better with the party. Makes sense, doesn't it - you're Good, you have a Good and an Evil character and need to have them working together... brainwash the Good one!Ur-member and coffee caterer of thefan club.
I wish people would stop using phrases such as "in my humble opinion", "just my two cents", and "we're out of coffee".
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for they are out drinking coffee and, like, whatever.
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2006-02-14, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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- World Empire of Istar
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Re: OOTS #281 - The Discussion Thread
Originally Posted by Yehomer
Even if I had not, a paladin that just knocked a single ogre into unconsciousness should be more than able to bring that single ogre back to trial.
Theoretically, if he had an option to take the above to trial and imprisonment without risking himself or anyone else, then yes, he should have done that.
The fact that it is nearly impossible to do that does make it legitimite to kill them.
However, in this case, if Miko had Belkar unconcious, and in a castle full of guards, she doesn't have any problem doing that.
A paladin's priority is innocent life, then her life and then the criminal's life. She shouldn't go out of her way not to kill the criminal, but if she has a choise with little to no risk to herself than it would be non good to kill him.
From the PH:
Alhandra, a paladin who fights evil [glow=red,2,300]without mercy[/glow] and protects the innocent without hesitation ...
The way you describe paladins seems colored by reality, as in, that is how a paladin would operate in real life. This is a fantasy comic based on a fantasy game operating under fantasy rules. Paladins don't subdue evil creatures for trial, they kill them (Miko & Belkar being an exception)."I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." -Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey-