Hilarious things you've found in RAW?

[loky1109]

Russian nesting armor is my new favorite enemy

Do you mean "Матрёшка armor"? )))

[Bohandas]

I'm still baffled by the fact you can wound an Air Elemental with non-magical weapon. What's up - is it bleeding? Did we damaged its vital organs? Or, maybe, cut off pieces of its body?..

I agree. That doesn't make a lick of sense.

I mean, I could maybe see someone being able to disperse it like the air demon in Ghost Rider but it makes no sense that someone without superhuman strength and agility would be able to hurt it with a normal weapon.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I mean, elementals are already pretty strange on a fundamental level when you get down to it. For an air elemental, I guess every time you swing through it, even the small wind created by your weapon is enough to disrupt it's existing winds, and also push some of 'its' air out of its 'body' while contaminating it with new air that it doesn't control.

[InvisibleBison]

High-level single-class Monks are able to take Craft Wondrous Item (supernatural special abilities have CL=HD) and thus - qualify for Lich template.

Not quite. They've got the caster level, but to create the phylactery you have to be able "to cast spells".

Simulacrum: "If reduced to 0 hit points or otherwise destroyed, it reverts to snow and melts instantly into nothingness."
Wight: "Any humanoid slain by a wight becomes a wight in 1d4 rounds."
Thus, apparently, the new Wight would appear out of "nothingness"

I don't think there's a problem here. A simulacrum reduced to 0 hp is destroyed, not slain, so it won't spawn a wight.

I'm still baffled by the fact you can wound an Air Elemental with non-magical weapon. What's up - is it bleeding? Did we damaged its vital organs? Or, maybe, cut off pieces of its body?..

It's not really based on the rules, as far as I know, but the way I rationalize this sort of thing is like so: When you "damage" an air elemental you're not physically doing anything to it, because it doesn't have a physical body. But since D&D-land is a magical world, the act of passing a weapon through the air elemental's body with hostile intent has a metaphysical effect, which is to disrupt the magical energies that create the elemental's physical form. It's this magical disruption, not any physical effect, that is the damage you do.

[Jervis]

It's not really based on the rules, as far as I know, but the way I rationalize this sort of thing is like so: When you "damage" an air elemental you're not physically doing anything to it, because it doesn't have a physical body. But since D&D-land is a magical world, the act of passing a weapon through the air elemental's body with hostile intent has a metaphysical effect, which is to disrupt the magical energies that create the elemental's physical form. It's this magical disruption, not any physical effect, that is the damage you do.

So what happens if you have a stick and believe it’s a +12 gargantuan fullblade? Jokes aside I imagine elementals as not being made of strictly “thing” but a magical protoplasm + “thing”. So you’re hitting the elemental magical goop that makes up its actual body.

[Tzardok]

Air elementals aren't gaseous by the rules. So they apparantly are made of solid air. As there are things like solid fire on the Elemental Plane of Fire, I don't see a problem with that.

[Vaern]

Not quite. They've got the caster level, but to create the phylactery you have to be able "to cast spells".

A while back there was a thread debating whether supernatural abilities that emulate a spell's effect could be used to qualify for a feat or prestige class that had that spell as a prerequisite, and the general consensus was "no." SLAs are described as working just like casting a spell, but supernatural abilities are considered to be magical but not spell-like. Not subject to spell resistance, counterpselling, or dispelling.

A duergar has SLAs that are cast as a wizard of twice his class level, though. If SLAs are just like casting a spell then a level 6 duergar of any class is effectively a 12th level wizard and should be able to craft a phylactery.
Unfortunately, demilich requires being a wizard, sorcerer, or cleric of 21st level or higher, not just casting as one. Otherwise a duergar might qualify as a 22nd level wizard with an actual level of 11.

[Lucas Yew]

- The very existence of the Multiple Attack Penalty.
- And of course, Full Attack crippling your movement per round.

Both look like malicious parodies of "realism"(snort), just to hose those fantasy character archetypes who rely on non-save offense rules wise...

[ShurikVch]

I don't think there's a problem here. A simulacrum reduced to 0 hp is destroyed, not slain, so it won't spawn a wight.

While simulacrum reduced to 0 hp may be destroyed - simulacrum reduced to 0 HD is definitely slain:

A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain.

(Let alone the fact neither "destroyed" nor "slain" are inherently game terms; "destroyed" is usually used for non-living creatures - like Undead or Constructs -, and "slain" for living creatures - such as a simulacrum of Humanoid)

Not quite. They've got the caster level, but to create the phylactery you have to be able "to cast spells".

You're correct. I forgot about this part...

A while back there was a thread debating whether supernatural abilities that emulate a spell's effect could be used to qualify for a feat or prestige class that had that spell as a prerequisite, and the general consensus was "no." SLAs are described as working just like casting a spell, but supernatural abilities are considered to be magical but not spell-like. Not subject to spell resistance, counterpselling, or dispelling.

Well, certain variants of Monk have spell-like abilities - such as Phoenix Disciple with Fire Stride

Note: the Su being said "Not subject to spell resistance, counterpselling, or dispelling" is weird in its own right - because what's the heck will happen if we cast Slow on one of those creatures with the Haste (Su)?

Slow counters and dispels haste.

It's not really based on the rules, as far as I know, but the way I rationalize this sort of thing is like so: When you "damage" an air elemental you're not physically doing anything to it, because it doesn't have a physical body. But since D&D-land is a magical world, the act of passing a weapon through the air elemental's body with hostile intent has a metaphysical effect, which is to disrupt the magical energies that create the elemental's physical form. It's this magical disruption, not any physical effect, that is the damage you do.

In that case - shouldn't a simple handful of dust thrown cause damage to it as well? I mean: dust is an earth - element which is metaphysically antithetical to the air; and you're definitely throwing it with hostile intent...

Air elementals aren't gaseous by the rules.

Which is a problem by itself - like a character which morphed into a swarm but don't get the Swarm subtype

So they apparantly are made of solid air. As there are things like solid fire on the Elemental Plane of Fire, I don't see a problem with that.

Please, source for the "solid air" (and, for that matter, "solid fire")


One more weird-by-RAW thing - Spark of Life spell. While intentions are clear, execution is...

It loses its immunity to effects that require a Fortitude save, as well as its invulnerability to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects. However, an undead affected by this spell gains a bonus on its Fortitude saves equal to its Charisma bonus (if any). (The bonus doesn't apply to Fortitude saves against effects that also affect objects.) It must breathe, eat, and sleep just like a normal living creature (though the last two aren't likely to come into play thanks to the spell's short duration).

Firstly - in the case of a Skeleton (or other "barebone" Undead; or Raiment), how is it supposed to be affected by the disease or poison? I mean - which, exactly, organs would it damage? And how it would even spread through the body?
Secondly: must breathe, eat, and sleep? How our example skeleton is supposed to do it? Did it have digestive system, windpipe, bronchi, or lungs? The same question for a Flameskull? Or how about Raiment? Is this spell intended to suffocate the affected Undead (unless it's a Vampire, Necropolitan, or incorporeal)?

[Vaern]

Note: the Su being said "Not subject to spell resistance, counterpselling, or dispelling" is weird in its own right - because what's the heck will happen if we cast Slow on one of those creatures with the Haste (Su)?

I can't think of a creature with built-in haste off the top of my head. Got a link to something on the SRD to look at?
Usually a supernatural ability based on a spell effect comes with some sort of caveat. "This ability functions as X spell, except..." sort of thing. There might be an exception to the "can't be dispelled" rule if the ability functions as a spell that is explicitly dispelled by another effect, but that seems like it falls squarely in Rule 0 territory. At any rate, a simple casting of dispel magic would be ineffective.

[Gemini476]

Please, source for the "solid air" (and, for that matter, "solid fire")

IIRC this is old lore from the original 1E Manual of the Planes where everything in the Inner Planes was made out of those elements, but some remnants of it remain in 3E:

The coals themselves are only slightly cooler pieces of elemental fire[.]
[...]
Most of the Elemental Plane of Fire consists of slow-moving solid flame, but there are faster-moving, hotter regions. [...] Such falls of liquid flame often breach into the areas between planes[.]

At a glance the 3E MoP doesn't say this about different states of air, preferring instead to lean on the random floating rocks from the Plane of Earth and whatnot, but yeah. Lots on fire. (Probably because magma is an easy answer for "what does liquid fire look like", but also because this is all pretty well-established with the Brass City being such a big planar destination and whatnot.)

As for elementals, they're "made up of the property of that plane". A good example of "solid air", then, would be a Djinn... but given that Air Elementals themselves aren't incorporeal or anything, they're presumably also very physical.

Remember, these are very magical fantasy creatures. Of course you can bludgeon a living whirlwind until it dissipates, that's just basic fantasy logic.

[Scots Dragon]

Remember, these are very magical fantasy creatures. Of course you can bludgeon a living whirlwind until it dissipates, that's just basic fantasy logic.

Always remember that application of real-world science to fantasy settings makes the Tressyms cry.

[ShurikVch]

I can't think of a creature with built-in haste off the top of my head. Got a link to something on the SRD to look at?
Usually a supernatural ability based on a spell effect comes with some sort of caveat. "This ability functions as X spell, except..." sort of thing. There might be an exception to the "can't be dispelled" rule if the ability functions as a spell that is explicitly dispelled by another effect, but that seems like it falls squarely in Rule 0 territory. At any rate, a simple casting of dispel magic would be ineffective.

Spoiler: Examples:

Show

Clay Golem:

Haste (Su): After it has engaged in at least 1 round of combat, a clay golem can haste itself once per day as a free action. The effect lasts 3 rounds and is otherwise the same as the spell.

Clay Half-Golem (Monster Manual II):

Haste (Su): After it has engaged in at least 1 round of combat on a given day, a clay half-golem can use haste upon itself once during that day as a free action. The effect lasts 3 rounds and is otherwise the same as the spell.

Demonically Fused Elemental (Dragon Compendium):

Haste (Su): Because the creature is an actual composite entity, and both the demon and the elemental are - at least somewhat - separately aware, the demonically fused elemental continually gains the benefits of haste.

Living Spell:

Spell Effect (Su): A creature hit by a living spell's slam attack is subjected to the normal effect of the spell or spells making up the creature, as if it were within the area or effect of the spell itself. Saves apply as normal for the spell; the DC is 10 + spell level + Cha modifier.

Monster of Legend (Monster Manual II):

Haste (Su): The creature is supernaturally quick. It can take an extra partial action each round, as if affected by a haste spell.

Wandering Dragon (Dragon #313):

Restless Energy (Su): As a free action, a wandering dragon can produce a haste effect, as the spell, upon itself. This ability is usable three limes per day, and the effect lasts for 1 round per caster level of the dragon. If the dragon does not have a specified caster level for its spells, it gains no benefit from this ability.

IIRC this is old lore from the original 1E Manual of the Planes where everything in the Inner Planes was made out of those elements, but some remnants of it remain in 3E:

Nothing against the 1E Manual of the Planes, but if we would use it - we would be forced to get rid of Spelljammers (because cosmologies of 1E Manual of the Planes and Spelljammer are mutually exclusive)

As for elementals, they're "made up of the property of that plane". A good example of "solid air", then, would be a Djinn... but given that Air Elementals themselves aren't incorporeal or anything, they're presumably also very physical.

Djinn are Outsiders - not Elementals

Remember, these are very magical fantasy creatures. Of course you can bludgeon a living whirlwind until it dissipates, that's just basic fantasy logic.

And can you give me any examples of non-D&D-derivatives where such things ever happened?
In the certain poem of Alexander Pope, the sylphs - air spirits - interpose their airy bodies between the blades of the scissors (to no effect whatsoever).

Always remember that application of real-world science to fantasy settings makes the Tressyms cry.

This section on world-building assumes that your campaign is set in a fairly realistic world. That is to say that while wizards cast spells, deities channel power to clerics, and dragons raze villages, the world is round, the laws of physics are applicable, and most people act like real people. The reason for this assumption is that unless they are told otherwise, this situation is what your players expect.

Material Plane: This plane is the one most familiar to characters and is usually the "home base" for a standard D&D campaign. The Material Plane tends to be the most Earthlike of all planes and operates under the same set of natural laws that our own real world does.

[Scots Dragon]

Yes but that's not talking about the elemental spirits from the planes of pure elemental force, is it?

[Bohandas]

What the heck is the thought process behind attacks of opportunity when an opponent leaves a threatened square, that doesn't make any sense to me, especially given that attacking someone who enters your threatened area requires a readied action, but for some reason taking a swipe at someone as they run past is free and doesn't even warrant a penalty to attack roll

[Jervis]

What the heck is the thought process behind attacks of opportunity when an opponent leaves a threatened square, that doesn't make any sense to me, especially given that attacking someone who enters your threatened area requires a readied action, but for some reason taking a swipe at someone as they run past is free and doesn't even warrant a penalty to attack roll

That’s kinda reasonable. They move past you without paying much attention so you can swipe at them

[Pezzo]

That’s kinda reasonable. They move past you without paying much attention so you can swipe at them

you must be a very angry person xd

[Vaern]

Spoiler: Examples:

Show

Clay Golem:

Clay Half-Golem (Monster Manual II):

Demonically Fused Elemental (Dragon Compendium):

Living Spell:

Monster of Legend (Monster Manual II):

Wandering Dragon (Dragon #313):

I'm going to go with my previous suggestion that dispel magic would be ineffective against any of these, though slow would work since the ability functions as the spell and the spell is specifically countered by slow.
It's also worth noting that the PHB's description of "dispel" lists a few different meanings for the word. You'd probably think of dispelling something as removing the effect, which is one definition, but suppressing an effect is also considered a form of dispelling. I propose that slow, when cast on a hasted creature, suppresses the effect for the spell's duration rather than terminate the effect entirely. Both effects are still in play and active on the affected creature, but they cancel each other out as equal and opposite forces and do nothing as long as they both persist.

The living spell is interesting, though. It kind of looks like its supernatural ability itself is just the proc-on-hit part. The spell effect resulting from the attack might actually function just like a regular spell. "You are subjected to the normal effects of the spell, as though you were in the spell's area or effect." I would personally treat that as a regular spell, subject to all the normal means of counteracting it.

[Scots Dragon]

you must be a very angry person xd

Some people just wake up and choose violence.

They get the most XP.

[Jervis]

Some people just wake up and choose violence.

They get the most XP.

Violence is not the answer. It’s the question, the answer to which is always yes.

[Seward]

What the heck is the thought process behind attacks of opportunity when an opponent leaves a threatened square

It used to be in AD&D that if you were next to an enemy and moved away, they got a free attack. There might or might not have been a way to avoid that "a careful back away" that is the equivalent of a withdrawal, I don't remember. (AD&D did not have any concept of a full attack = full round action. You move up and take as many attacks as you are entitled to. I don't think they had a charge maneuver either, if they were 5' further than your movement rate, you could only double move up or use a missile weapon).

When they came up with AOO rules, they probably wanted to keep that flavor.

[Venger]

What the heck is the thought process behind attacks of opportunity when an opponent leaves a threatened square, that doesn't make any sense to me, especially given that attacking someone who enters your threatened area requires a readied action, but for some reason taking a swipe at someone as they run past is free and doesn't even warrant a penalty to attack roll

In 3.0, we had facing rules, so which direction your mini was facing mattered. When someone fled your threatened area, they turned their back on you, which made them vulnerable to being slapped in the back of the head. We axed facing rules in the 3.5 update because they were really confusing and inevitably, when you move your guy on the map you're going to move it a little bit just by accident but I don't think the aoo rules changed.

[Silly Name]

In 3.0, we had facing rules, so which direction your mini was facing mattered. When someone fled your threatened area, they turned their back on you, which made them vulnerable to being slapped in the back of the head. We axed facing rules in the 3.5 update because they were really confusing and inevitably, when you move your guy on the map you're going to move it a little bit just by accident but I don't think the aoo rules changed.

I mean, to me it still makes sense even without the facing rules. If you're moving away from an armed opponent, you either keep your guard up (and thus move slower), or try to bolt for it but also drop your guard, giving said opponent an opening.

Likewise, passing by a threatened space is going to leave openings for your enemies to try to attack you unless you take some measures to not give them openings.

[noob]

Another reason for the "hit people leaving threatened space" rule is that it allows to limit movement through lines of adventurers thus making it possible to actually be in the backline and not just have all opponents just walk though the front line and hit the backline without any punishment.

[Scots Dragon]

Another reason for the "hit people leaving threatened space" rule is that it allows to limit movement through lines of adventurers thus making it possible to actually be in the backline and not just have all opponents just walk though the front line and hit the backline without any punishment.

Pretty much this.

It allows for the fighters to actually do their job as front-line defence.

[Seward]

Earlier editions of D&D had facing rules too, it dates back to the days when it was all a miniatures system. I remember that you were supposed to deprive people of shield bonuses if you attacked them from the sword side, things like that.

Like weapon speeds and weapon bonuses/penalties vs armor types, that minutia was usually ignored at most actual games I played. My memories of AD&D play had front and back, and back didn't get shield bonuses and I think had some other minor penalty beyond vulnerability to thieves. Most CRPGs prior to Balder's gate were implemented so that the last guy who hit an opponent got it to face their way, and a thief could only get backstab if he went opposite. Balder's gate made it stupidly hard for backstab to work, to the point where most people played rogues for epic trap-laying only, and traded out backstab for other features if at all possible. Except for the backstab enthusiasts who somehow figured out how to do it reliably in a real-time-with-pause combat system. Those guys loved thieves.

It's possible CRPG influence on D&D got people thinking facing was stupid, and by 3.5 that idea was pretty dead. (3.0 came out when the Infinity Engine games were at peak popularity, one Icewind Dale game used a kind of beta 3.0). Honestly sneak attack based on flanking or just acting first or enemy being unable to perceive you was a much easier mechanic to deal with.

[ShurikVch]

I can't find rules for it right now, but pretty sure somebody mentioned this: if flanking creatures on the opposite sides of mounted character are able to hit the mount - they're able to hit the rider too, even in case if the flanking creatures are goblins, the rider - Jermlaine, and the mount is Tarrasque... (i. e. - regardless the mount's size, they're both able to hit the rider - despite being on the opposite sides of it)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Perception rules are really dumb, and they lead to some really stupid results.

For instance, any vision mode other than darkvision relies on light sources where you are, not where other people are, which means if you're hiding in a deep shadow but another person is standing in the middle of the same room holding a lit torch, you probably can't see them, since you're rendered blind without some other way to see. And since Spot takes a -1 penalty for every 10' of distance between you and a target, it's quite likely that nobody standing on the surface of Earth can see the sun or the light therefrom.

Likewise, Listen takes that penalty for distance, as well, and it's quite probable that you can't hear a pitched battle a couple hundred feet away.

[ShurikVch]

Perception rules are really dumb, and they lead to some really stupid results.

For instance, any vision mode other than darkvision relies on light sources where you are, not where other people are, which means if you're hiding in a deep shadow but another person is standing in the middle of the same room holding a lit torch, you probably can't see them, since you're rendered blind without some other way to see. And since Spot takes a -1 penalty for every 10' of distance between you and a target, it's quite likely that nobody standing on the surface of Earth can see the sun or the light therefrom.

Likewise, Listen takes that penalty for distance, as well, and it's quite probable that you can't hear a pitched battle a couple hundred feet away.

That's not exactly how it works: light source can be detected - by DC 20 Spot check - from the distance of (its light radius)*20; and would be detected automatically from the half of this distance
Considering you're mentioned a torch - it's 20*20=400' - for the Spot 20, and 200' - for automatic detection. 200' (40 squares) -one heck of a room!..
And any light source, when you're withing its light radius (such as the Sun), is detected automatically - no checks needed

For the Listen - a battle in 200' is DC 10. If something prevents you from "taking 10" - then blame it on the unnoticed battle, not the Listen rules in general...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

That's not exactly how it works: light source can be detected - by DC 20 Spot check - from the distance of (its light radius)*20; and would be detected automatically from the half of this distance
Considering you're mentioned a torch - it's 20*20=400' - for the Spot 20, and 200' - for automatic detection. 200' (40 squares) -one heck of a room!..
And any light source, when you're withing its light radius (such as the Sun), is detected automatically - no checks needed

Except you're rendered blind if you're in darkness, even if it's a shadow in an otherwise lit room. Blindness renders you unable to see, and you therefore cannot make Spot checks.

For the Listen - a battle in 200' is DC 10. If something prevents you from "taking 10" - then blame it on the unnoticed battle, not the Listen rules in general...

The Listen DC for a battle is only at -10, and 210' away is a -21 penalty to your Listen check. For a fighter with 10 Wis and no ranks in Listen (which is quite common for fighters, given they're MAD, don't need Wis for much, and don't get Spot as a class skill), Taking 10 won't help at all.