Questionable Content XIX: Give Jeph Just A *Little* Credit, Here

[Cikomyr2]

I liked the Pun name.

I liked the joke. Its a variant of my favourite joke of the internet (kid/father free a mouse, mouse immediately gets grabbed by a bird of prey. Turns out they are friends and the bird is bringing the mouse to its family. Turns out its all a story improvised by the father to comfort his distraught and crying child).

[Johanny]

I had to look what kind of pun it was. I was thinking anime and didn't bothered but was told it was music related. Well it's loosely music related and has more to do with a creepy renderization of humanity than with music (the pun I mean).
Decades ago, musicians were replaced by (then cheap) synthesizers. Synthesizers had already been existing, but in the 80's they became so prominent that TV shows stopped employing orchesters, the miniaturization of the recording industry having already made the life of ball musicians a perilous bet. Vocalists were still needed, and when twenty years laters, the vocal synthesis was refined to propose artificial singers, it was thought that they would take upon the world. But at the same time, the same progress on synthesis allowed people who couldn't sing to be corrected in real time, and for the same reason playback did not erase live performances, vocalists didn't disappear. Years after that, people pay for hearing this synthesis in gigs, not because they think it's good, or recognize the technical prowess behind it, or that *it was* after all taken from the speech/sing pattern of a real person, but only as a cultural phenomenon they want to be part of. So what's prized is not that AI are better, just that you have to be there. It's advertising like in Mad Men.
This pun shows what AI are really in Jeph's world: a surface for belonging. It hasn't anything to with technology, nor with anything they replace, nor anything they could symbolize, nor any artistic freedom you could have with them not being human, it's a bland surface to advertise that the comic is the place to be. Once that's realized, not only it says much about the treatment of characters, but of about all of it. This comic is professional in the sense influencers are professional. It's got nothing to say but advertise itself while advertising for something else. Plotholes, lack of characterization, drawing errors, unfunniness; that's not relevant to what the comic is.
So either it's meta social commentary to the point it's almost genius. Or it's vain to speak of any inconsistency.

[Beelzebub1111]

Is anyone else bothered by the tone of the comic towards Winslow. Like infantilization or something similar to it? I kind of feel the same way about Clinton's boyfriend. It just feels like trying so hard to be safe that every edge has been filed down to a soft blob. I'm not sure if I am expressing myself well, but something is definitely off and sits strangely in the back of my mind.

[Keltest]

Is anyone else bothered by the tone of the comic towards Winslow. Like infantilization or something similar to it? I kind of feel the same way about Clinton's boyfriend. It just feels like trying so hard to be safe that every edge has been filed down to a soft blob. I'm not sure if I am expressing myself well, but something is definitely off and sits strangely in the back of my mind.

It was the same way with Pintsize. They got their humanoid full size bodies and suddenly their previous characterizations became intensely uncomfortable. But while Pintsize changed his behavior, Winslow is still treated as if he's an Ipod.

[Traab]

Yeah it really does feel like winslow is still being seen as an ipod with stubby limbs.

[Mechalich]

Is anyone else bothered by the tone of the comic towards Winslow. Like infantilization or something similar to it? I kind of feel the same way about Clinton's boyfriend. It just feels like trying so hard to be safe that every edge has been filed down to a soft blob. I'm not sure if I am expressing myself well, but something is definitely off and sits strangely in the back of my mind.

The comic has, over time, moved towards infantilization of everyone, in the very specific sense where it seems to be trying to present a world where, for lack of a better term, 'adulting' is an optional part of life. This affects the AI characters more severely because it is, for them, in some sense true. An AI can run as a disembodied software construct in a server, at which point their needs are merely whatever seemingly minor level of power is necessary to sustain the portion of the cloud they are occupying (May, it should be noted, had monetary troubles because the conditions of her parole precluded an existence of this kind). Even for embodied AIs the power requirements for their existences seem surprisingly low. As such, Winslow can just spend his days lazing around watching the pigeons and nothing bad will ever happen as a result. So he doesn't have to make tough choices, because the going will not get tough.

And, so far as it goes, this is a reasonable kind of concept for post-scarcity science fiction to interrogate. In a world where labor largely ceases to be of value for the overwhelming majority of people, what happens to everyone else and how society functions as a result is a fairly profound question. This is in fact something that near-future speculative science fiction is currently writing about a lot, given the at least theoretical potential of AI to replace huge chunks of traditional labor fields this century. And QC occasionally probes in this direction in a semi-serious way by tossing out things like AI-managed assembly lines or nuclear power plants. The problem is, QC is both immensely unequipped as a setting to do anything like this, Jeph doesn't research background material with even 'ten minutes using Google' levels of diligence, and he's routinely distracted by placing present-day politics into his future-shocked AI-infested setting where said issues no longer necessarily apply.

The sitcom approach can be revealing with regards to social history. The better class of the genre represents a detailed and introspective look at life for a certain kind of people in a certain place at a certain time. Early QC even did this, with the following criteria: underemployed 20-somethings, small-city USA, 2000s. And, speaking as someone who was briefly all of those things, it got a lot of things right. Once those criteria were abandoned, which happened shortly after it stopped being the 2000s in real time, everything became unmoored.

[Scarlet Manuka]

Even for embodied AIs the power requirements for their existences seem surprisingly low. As such, Winslow can just spend his days lazing around watching the pigeons and nothing bad will ever happen as a result.

I agree with most of your comment, but wanted to point out that the bigger reason here is that he lives with a mega-rich heiress. Momo had to work (admittedly partly by her choice, and more to repay Marigold for the chassis upgrade than for ongoing living expenses) before Marigold joined the ridiculous money club.

Electricity would certainly be cheaper than buying groceries all the time though. And you wouldn't have to spend hours on meal planning and cooking (and dishes). Sounds like a pretty good deal, frankly.

[VoxRationis]

I wouldn't necessarily classify Hannelore as "mega-rich" in her own right; it's clear that she's more comfortably off than many of the cast, but she doesn't seem to have direct, personal access to the sorts of funds her parents do. For example, when she sought retribution against a restaurant for giving Marten food poisoning, she had to call her mother up to ask a favor of her, rather than purchasing the institution herself. The fact that she worked with a specialized skill set while maintaining a very austere residence for a long time means she's built up a comfortable financial margin for the few major impulse purchases she's actually made (a drum set, Winslow's humanoid body, and her finding-herself tour), but probably isn't an order of magnitude (or more) wealthier than more grounded members of the cast.

The main reason Winslow is cheap to maintain is because electricity is pretty cheap when compared to halfway-decent groceries or gas money.

[Mechalich]

The main reason Winslow is cheap to maintain is because electricity is pretty cheap when compared to halfway-decent groceries or gas money.

Also, the power requirements of embodied AIs are quite low. Notably, we've seen AIs charge, they can use conventional domestic outlets (120v) and can build up a charge quite quickly when doing so. This implies that it takes significantly less power to run a humanoid AI than it does to run an electric car, as the latter require specialized infrastructure to charge efficiently (a standard outlet will only net an EV 2-3 miles worth of range per hour of charging). May complained, repeatedly, about maintenance costs as a drain on her income, not about power costs.

In some ways this even makes sense. QC AIs have been shown to be - at least in the comic's present - basically humans made out of mechanical components, but there's no reason for a humanoid machine to have a human metabolism, which spends the overwhelming majority of its energy keeping the human body a toasting 98.6 F. A cold-blooded animal of the same mass as an adult, for example a giant tortoise, has nothing like the caloric requirements of a human being. AI's can presumably go even further, putting everything but their core sapience processing on suspend if they are inactive.

[Wraith]

Ayo is spending a lot of time inviting strangers to a party that is A) taking place somewhere that doesn't belong to her, B) that she has spent zero amount of time preparing for, and C) could not contribute to financially even if she wanted to. I hope someone calls her out on her entitlement otherwise there are going to be 9 people sharing a single tray of jello shots while Liz orders a pizza, and that's it.

Actually, scratch that; I'd like someone to call her out on the way that she's repeatedly dehumanizing the AI she's met. Given the number of times that that this comic has used an AI character as a stand-in for a minority group, referring to Pintsize in such an objectifying way as "this one" is... somewhat unsettling, especially after manhandling Winslow repeatedly like he were some kind of toy.

[Cikomyr2]

Actually, scratch that; I'd like someone to call her out on the way that she's repeatedly dehumanizing the AI she's met. Given the number of times that that this comic has used an AI character as a stand-in for a minority group, referring to Pintsize in such an objectifying way as "this one" is... somewhat unsettling, especially after manhandling Winslow repeatedly like he were some kind of toy.

I was going to write that.

She doesn't seem to have integrated that AI are people. She seems to treat them like companion appliances. "This one is broken"? Really?

[Mechalich]

Well, this most recent comic is just bad behavior all around. Pintsize's remark qualifies as explicit sexual harassment with intent, and Ayo could potentially take legal action against him over it (honestly, I feel like Pintsize should have so many restraining orders against him he shouldn't be able to even live in Northampton anymore). Instead, she palm strikes him in the face, which is simple assault and a crime (though I imagine a judge would be extremely unsympathetic to Pintsize). That is consistent with her impulse control problems. Also, within the context of sitcom-y approaches to violence, get smacked in the face for this kind of thing is pretty normal, and frankly Pintsize is lucky Ayo isn't someone with a significantly meaner right hook.

I'd be more inclined to say that Ayo treats AIs like children, which is actually probably common (Momo's what? six? eight?) and because she's child-like herself (along with, as I mentioned a few posts ago, everyone else) behaves like a slightly older child surrounded by younger ones.

Ultimately, Pintsize's schtick worked when he was a perambulatory tablet but it doesn't work with him as a full size humanoid being, and this comic is exhibit A.

[Wraith]

Well, this most recent comic is just bad behavior all around.

Oh, absolutely, no mistake here. I just think that Ayo's response is weirdly specific, y'know? Like, if she'd just called him an a**hole and told him to get bent, she'd have been well within her rights and no one would have batted an eye.

But "this one" ? The only time I've seen a person refer to another person as "this one" is when they're being deliberately condescending, like an old oil baron copping a feel of the damsel in distress, she spits in his eye, and he goes "I like this one, she has some fire in her!" etc. It's a villainous Trope.

Or, it's used as a thinly-veiled euphemism akin to "you people". Cue the Tropic Thunder reference.

Maybe a bit of a reach, definitely me dissecting the secret hidden meaning of two syllables in questionable context.. But it's weird.

Ultimately, Pintsize's schtick worked when he was a perambulatory tablet but it doesn't work with him as a full size humanoid being, and this comic is exhibit A.

I'm sure that Pintsize has had at least two conversations wherein the subject is about how his humanoid chassis makes his transgressive behaviour feel uncomfortable and he doesn't want to do it any more. Either that previous development has been disregarded for a one-off joke (probable...) or he's developed further and come to terms with his feelings off-camera just in time to return to form for meeting Ayo (stupid).

[Traab]

Well, this most recent comic is just bad behavior all around. Pintsize's remark qualifies as explicit sexual harassment with intent, and Ayo could potentially take legal action against him over it (honestly, I feel like Pintsize should have so many restraining orders against him he shouldn't be able to even live in Northampton anymore). Instead, she palm strikes him in the face, which is simple assault and a crime (though I imagine a judge would be extremely unsympathetic to Pintsize). That is consistent with her impulse control problems. Also, within the context of sitcom-y approaches to violence, get smacked in the face for this kind of thing is pretty normal, and frankly Pintsize is lucky Ayo isn't someone with a significantly meaner right hook.

I'd be more inclined to say that Ayo treats AIs like children, which is actually probably common (Momo's what? six? eight?) and because she's child-like herself (along with, as I mentioned a few posts ago, everyone else) behaves like a slightly older child surrounded by younger ones.

Ultimately, Pintsize's schtick worked when he was a perambulatory tablet but it doesn't work with him as a full size humanoid being, and this comic is exhibit A.

Pretty sure that wasnt a palm strike it was a "get out of my personal space you creep" shove. Kind of like how you would put your hand on someones head to keep them at arms length when they try to swing at you. I do agree with the way she treats the ai as being not equal to humans thing though. At best its treating them as little kids. At worst its as less than human. After all, "Hey there little guy" is a phrase one uses to talk to both a dog and a little kid.

[Lumus]

I'd be more inclined to say that Ayo treats AIs like children, which is actually probably common (Momo's what? six? eight?) and because she's child-like herself (along with, as I mentioned a few posts ago, everyone else) behaves like a slightly older child surrounded by younger ones.

Momo gave her age as 2.7 a while back, but with the timeskip, she's probably turned three by now.

[Wraith]

So... the implication here is that for a party of at least five humans and an AI, Willow made 10 whole jello-shots and nothing else? And has already finished three of them herself, leaving seven between five other people (plus herself)?

....This "party" is going to be the worst thing ever.

[VoxRationis]

So... the implication here is that for a party of at least five humans and an AI, Willow made 10 whole jello-shots and nothing else? And has already finished three of them herself, leaving seven between five other people (plus herself)?

....This "party" is going to be the worst thing ever.

I mean, there's probably the rest of the bottle of vodka, if nothing else, but yes, ten seems scanty for a party of five people who can ingest them.

[Ionathus]

I want a version of Marten’s dialogue from today’s final panel that I can use Mad-Libs-style for arguments over fiction.

Stop yelling at me Zuko because you made up a stupid version of me Zuko in your head!

[Wraith]

I don't mean to keep asking rhetorical questions, it just seems to end that way. That being said; Am I alone in thinking that the the last two strips been basically the same premise:

Character A: "Hey, you know this thing that could happen, and would potentially be interesting and/or cause some sort of plot-driving conflict?"

Character B: "I am aware of it, and I assure you that I will not be taking part in these interesting and/or plot-driving things".

There's the faint possibility of a double-bluff I guess, but the track record suggests it unlikely; it almost feels like Jeph is looking directly at the audience and telling us "No, whatever funny, silly or amusing thing you're expecting, is not going to happen".

Also, Faye made a crude joke about boobs, and then everyone glared at Pintsize because of the crude joke that they imagined in their heads, but he explicitly did not say.

Rude, is what that is. Two-faced jerks.

[Rodin]

I don't mean to keep asking rhetorical questions, it just seems to end that way. That being said; Am I alone in thinking that the the last two strips been basically the same premise:

Character A: "Hey, you know this thing that could happen, and would potentially be interesting and/or cause some sort of plot-driving conflict?"

Character B: "I am aware of it, and I assure you that I will not be taking part in these interesting and/or plot-driving things".

There's the faint possibility of a double-bluff I guess, but the track record suggests it unlikely; it almost feels like Jeph is looking directly at the audience and telling us "No, whatever funny, silly or amusing thing you're expecting, is not going to happen".

Also, Faye made a crude joke about boobs, and then everyone glared at Pintsize because of the crude joke that they imagined in their heads, but he explicitly did not say.

Rude, is what that is. Two-faced jerks.

The first one was most certainly directed at his readers. There's been a lot of "What if Faye and Marten hooked up, wouldn't that cause a lot of drama and be really interesting?" over on Reddit, and the final panel is a perfect response to that. The Faye and Marten ship capsized and sunk in the harbor. There's no reason to believe either of them still harbors any romantic notions. Even if there were, neither Faye or Marten are the type of person to betray their partner that way.

It's a rare case where I am 100% with Jeph on not pursuing a storyline for artificial out-of-character drama.

Of course, I still wish he would actually do something that causes legitimate drama. Like showing Dora struggling to organize her wedding with a total lack of help from Tai, followed by them having a fairly major blow-up that required getting their friends involved to make the peace between them. Or actually moving forward with Faye and Bubbles financial difficulties due to their shop not taking off the way they had hoped. Or any of a hundred other interesting stories that would advance the plot better than "a bunch of characters we barely know and do not care about are going to have a party".

[geoduck]

Or actually moving forward with Faye and Bubbles financial difficulties due to their shop not taking off the way they had hoped.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they get recruited to move to Cubetown as well.

[Wraith]

It's a rare case where I am 100% with Jeph on not pursuing a storyline for artificial out-of-character drama.

I mean, absolutely - he'd be a maniac to torpedo the relationships between his core cast and nuke 20 years of respectful and progressive sitcom hijinks. It's exactly the sort of thing that tropes like Cerebus Syndrome were invented to warn us against.

But... For God's sake, tease it! Suggest it, tantalise your audience with it, drag it out and make them squirm on the edge of their seats, desperate to see how it could resolve in a way apart from the obvious.

Please don't just look your audience in the eye and go "Plot? Intrigue? Anticipation? No, not here, not in my comic".

[Agi Hammerthief]

I mean, absolutely - he'd be a maniac to torpedo the relationships between his core cast and nuke 20 years of respectful and progressive sitcom hijinks. It's exactly the sort of thing that tropes like Cerebus Syndrome were invented to warn us against.

But... For God's sake, tease it! Suggest it, tantalise your audience with it, drag it out and make them squirm on the edge of their seats, desperate to see how it could resolve in a way apart from the obvious.

Please don't just look your audience in the eye and go "Plot? Intrigue? Anticipation? No, not here, not in my comic".

blerg, no thanks.
QC is the only sitcom I indulge in for pretty much this reason.
plus I can multitask the 5 minutes of sitcom a day with breakfast coffee.

[DavidSh]

Tentacular Depravity. Sounds like a good thread title. It's been a while since I've seen a music joke on QC,

[PhantomFox]

We're going to need to start coming up with thread titles soon.

[Rodin]

I mean, absolutely - he'd be a maniac to torpedo the relationships between his core cast and nuke 20 years of respectful and progressive sitcom hijinks. It's exactly the sort of thing that tropes like Cerebus Syndrome were invented to warn us against.

But... For God's sake, tease it! Suggest it, tantalise your audience with it, drag it out and make them squirm on the edge of their seats, desperate to see how it could resolve in a way apart from the obvious.

Please don't just look your audience in the eye and go "Plot? Intrigue? Anticipation? No, not here, not in my comic".

If there's a real chance of drama happening, absolutely tease it. There's a bunch of potential drama Jeph could tease or actually cause which I would be totally down for.

But Faye and Marten hooking up? It's something that Jeph isn't going to do, we the audience know he isn't going to do it, and it is out of character for both Marten and Faye and would make the comic worse if it happened. Under those circumstances I don't even want teasing, because it would require making people act out of character to tease something we all know isn't going to happen.

I could do without the snark from Jeph though. If we had other drama happening (or plot progression of any kind) he could say that with a wink and a nod, but criticizing your fanbase for wanting something, anything to happen comes off as more than a little tone-deaf.

Tentacular Depravity. Sounds like a good thread title. It's been a while since I've seen a music joke on QC,

I'll second this, both because the phrase Tentacular Depravity is really funny and I like contemplating what the rest of the forum is going to think of that title out of context.

Today's comic was really good. It's just a bunch of talking heads, but otherwise this is the sort of dialogue that made me fall in love with QC in the first place.

[DavidSh]

Now I wonder whether the quote from The Empire Strikes Back was deliberate, or am I just seeing Star Wars everywhere today?

[KillianHawkeye]

What quote?

[DavidSh]

What quote?

"I know". Han's reply to a revelation from Leia near the end of the movie. As I said, maybe I was overly focused on Star Wars.

[ElliotO]

Might I just point out 5267 to give a little credit to jeph, its another great Iris scene that endears me to her a little more. Doesn't help with Liz though...

Unfortunately, she won't do anything until Jeph forgets he has two lesbian couples going and does a subplot of her getting with willow. (note: not saying more representation is a bad thing, its just that we haven't seen Dora and Tai for a while and I'd rather see more of them than a pair of new characters I have no investment in yet)